Stealth, a rework.

[Okamibanshu88]

So, I've been playing games on Ps4, and Ps3 and well..every console since Nintendo, you know, the flat cartridge kind. And stealth has always been a huge thing for me. I love it so much. I'd just love to see a further implication of stealth into warframe. Abilities, weapons, even usable items that allow a player to fully stealth a mission. We all can get caught and still 'stealth' a mission, but there aren't really any stealth paths to allow you to complete missions in pure stealth. I personally, think this is flawed, why not give us lure abilities, this might require us to be able to hug walls...which is actually something i'd love to have as well. But the ability to lure enemies closer to you, and NOT give away that your there, and the enemies who would respond to 'hmm, what was that sound? let me investigate' instead of going guns blazing towards where you were would be great. 

I know its a lot to ask, and would require a huge rework around what exists already, but i feel that a game thta claims to be 'space ninja's' should really have a better stealth. 

[Trichouette]

Warframe is (once you get tired of the senseless grind) about rushing missions as fast as possible to be as efficient in your grind as you can.

Stealth is only used for affinity/focus farming.

On top of it, stealth is pretty dead because anytime one enemy sees you the whole map is aware of your presence (talk about hive mind...)

 

Honestly I don't see why warframe should further develop the stealth part, but that's only my opinion.

However, invisibility is absolutely insane and should be reworked.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Trichouette

[(XBOX)HerculesLac]

il y a 9 minutes, Okamibanshu88 a dit :

enemies who would respond to 'hmm, what was that sound? let me investigate' instead of going guns blazing towards where you were

Ivara has this kind of ability (if I understood your point correctly)

[Genitive]

I would also like stealth to be more viable. It would require AI and spawning logic rework, but would be doable. However, I don't think it will happen simply because most of the playerbase prefer to rush through missions rather to be stealthy.

[Okamibanshu88]

1 minute ago, Genitive said:

I would also like stealth to be more viable. It would require AI and spawning logic rework, but would be doable. However, I don't think it will happen simply because most of the playerbase prefer to rush through missions rather to be stealthy.

exactly, but come on, you know as well as i do, that they would have stealth only missions for us hard core stealhers ^_^

[jiminatorx]

22 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

On top of it, stealth is pretty dead because anytime one enemy sees you the whole map is aware of your presence (talk about hive mind...)

This is not really true. only the local cluster of enemies in the current map tile become aware unless they hit an alert, then all enemies become permanently aware. You can have aware enemies in one section and "see" enemies in another section without the others being alerted. In affinity farming with banshee it often works to rush past alerted enemies and not break the stealth multiplier.

[MBaldelli]

1 hour ago, Okamibanshu88 said:

So, I've been playing games on Ps4, and Ps3 and well..every console since Nintendo, you know, the flat cartridge kind. And stealth has always been a huge thing for me. I love it so much. I'd just love to see a further implication of stealth into warframe. Abilities, weapons, even usable items that allow a player to fully stealth a mission. We all can get caught and still 'stealth' a mission, but there aren't really any stealth paths to allow you to complete missions in pure stealth. I personally, think this is flawed, why not give us lure abilities, this might require us to be able to hug walls...which is actually something i'd love to have as well. But the ability to lure enemies closer to you, and NOT give away that your there, and the enemies who would respond to 'hmm, what was that sound? let me investigate' instead of going guns blazing towards where you were would be great. 

I know its a lot to ask, and would require a huge rework around what exists already, but i feel that a game thta claims to be 'space ninja's' should really have a better stealth. 

Excuse me, because you can't finish the mission 100% stealth =/= that it's flawed.  There are several problems with this and the straw man you're building is making this request feel like the suggestions for someone feeling entitled. 

First, we're human and capable of making mistakes.  We can be overzealous, we can rush into killing a target and thereby alerting others around them.  We can flounce into an area without watching for the key signs that there are enemies in the area.  

Second, we don't have 360 degree vision.  We cannot see all the enemies on a section of the map and DE has set this game up in such a way that unseen enemies can be alerted to our activities and trigger alarms.  

Third, not everyone has the same mindset as the stealth player.  A good example of this was during the razorback events.  I have watched PUGs running by enemies triggering alarms and then having to face bursas without so much as a second thought because they were rushing to the objective, not caring that there were high level annoying enemies also hunting them.  

I can tell you based on experience I have either finished missions without enemies triggering alarms (which is definitely an improvement to what I remember 5 years ago).  Whether or not you consider it stealth, well...  Your Mileage Might Vary.  

[Okamibanshu88]

2 hours ago, MBaldelli said:

Excuse me, because you can't finish the mission 100% stealth =/= that it's flawed.  There are several problems with this and the straw man you're building is making this request feel like the suggestions for someone feeling entitled. 

First, we're human and capable of making mistakes.  We can be overzealous, we can rush into killing a target and thereby alerting others around them.  We can flounce into an area without watching for the key signs that there are enemies in the area.  

Second, we don't have 360 degree vision.  We cannot see all the enemies on a section of the map and DE has set this game up in such a way that unseen enemies can be alerted to our activities and trigger alarms.  

Third, not everyone has the same mindset as the stealth player.  A good example of this was during the razorback events.  I have watched PUGs running by enemies triggering alarms and then having to face bursas without so much as a second thought because they were rushing to the objective, not caring that there were high level annoying enemies also hunting them.  

I can tell you based on experience I have either finished missions without enemies triggering alarms (which is definitely an improvement to what I remember 5 years ago).  Whether or not you consider it stealth, well...  Your Mileage Might Vary.  

....to be honest, i lost interest in your post when you seemed to take a WAY out there appraoch to my comment o.O dude, i'm saying that it makes no sense that enemies several rooms away go on alert because one enemy goes 'ah!' and freaks out. and gunfire doesn't mean everyone on teh base would enter 'kill them now!' status, they'd search for the target, and fire on site maybe, but not being able to find who shot the bullet, or the guy who shot being unable to see who had done it etc, would lead to a 'i thought i saw something' sort of mentality. i like the stealth in metal gear solid 5 because while you can get spotted, and very quickly especially with gunfire, its possible to quietly take out people in amission and not be spotted. this is an element that i wish warframe had. They already have stealth aspects, and have had air shaft movement for years, i'd just love an improvement over both. I know stealth isn't everyones cup of tea, but every person running through a mission saying 'screw you' to anyone who can't keep up, is just annoying, so making some stealth missions would be fun and help add some more variety to a game that already has some, but really only has one real flavor currently. 

Warframe is always advancing and they've made improvements to stealth in the past and seem to want to improve it. So i don't think its a far fetched dream to ask for better stealth. and as to your final comment...there IS no stealth bonus for completing a mission without alarms going off. I've finished missiosn without ever being spotted by enemies, use of spy missions and nova prime, and you get nothing out of it aside from feeling accomplished for managing it. just saying, with a 'rush rush rush' mentality, it really spoils teh fun of a level for me, and makes it...pointless really, to fight enemies. 

 

[MBaldelli]

13 minutes ago, Okamibanshu88 said:

...to be honest, i lost interest in your post when you seemed to take a WAY out there appraoch to my comment o.O dude

Please don't try to be condescending with me.  I have decades of experience in 4Chan and Usenet.  If I were to use the same or greater amounts of condescension in return, you would be screeching to the report button for my retorts.  Keep what I say next in mind when you start coming off sneering or condescending...  

The fact is, I was playing devil's advocate based on personal experience  because too often people want change around here because they want to cheese their way through everything in this game.  And if it's not cheese enough, they're screaming "nerf!" As I said, 

3 hours ago, MBaldelli said:

I can tell you based on experience I have either finished missions without enemies triggering alarms (which is definitely an improvement to what I remember 5 years ago).  Whether or not you consider it stealth, well...  Your Mileage Might Vary.  

This is why I approached and responded to your post -- in Fan Concepts and not in Suggestions -- the way that I did.  Had it been there, I guarantee you I would've been more dismissive.  

1 minute ago, Okamibanshu88 said:

i'm saying that it makes no sense that enemies several rooms away go on alert because one enemy goes 'ah!' and freaks out.

Really?  I want to see you laying out security cameras as proof to this happening.  

Although truth be told, this seems to be a hyperbole.  I do know from the same experience as you -- it's no more than a room away.  And certainly not something that can't be circumvented quickly enough even running stealth solo.  

6 minutes ago, Okamibanshu88 said:

Warframe is always advancing and they've made improvements to stealth in the past and seem to want to improve it.

You mean like the time we had hitscan bullets from the enemies turning corners in order to 100% hit your warframe invariably?  You mean like the time we had Infested stunlocking you to death and leaving you in such a rage that ALT+F4 was the only escape from beating up your keyboard?   You mean like how we could cheese Corpus rooms on space ships by blasting out breakable windows and get Corpus and Infested enemies sucked out into space?  

Yes, I remember those changes.  

I remember so many other changes that lead to and later rectified with Vivergate.  

11 minutes ago, Okamibanshu88 said:

there IS no stealth bonus for completing a mission without alarms going off.

This sounds like a suggestion and not a concept.  Maybe you should post it in a better place?  Although I seem to recall -- vaguely -- this being asked for back when we started playing.  And to date, I think we're still waiting...  

[Okamibanshu88]

35 minutes ago, MBaldelli said:

Please don't try to be condescending with me.  I have decades of experience in 4Chan and Usenet.  If I were to use the same or greater amounts of condescension in return, you would be screeching to the report button for my retorts.  Keep what I say next in mind when you start coming off sneering or condescending...  

The fact is, I was playing devil's advocate based on personal experience  because too often people want change around here because they want to cheese their way through everything in this game.  And if it's not cheese enough, they're screaming "nerf!" As I said, 

This is why I approached and responded to your post -- in Fan Concepts and not in Suggestions -- the way that I did.  Had it been there, I guarantee you I would've been more dismissive.  

Really?  I want to see you laying out security cameras as proof to this happening.  

Although truth be told, this seems to be a hyperbole.  I do know from the same experience as you -- it's no more than a room away.  And certainly not something that can't be circumvented quickly enough even running stealth solo.  

You mean like the time we had hitscan bullets from the enemies turning corners in order to 100% hit your warframe invariably?  You mean like the time we had Infested stunlocking you to death and leaving you in such a rage that ALT+F4 was the only escape from beating up your keyboard?   You mean like how we could cheese Corpus rooms on space ships by blasting out breakable windows and get Corpus and Infested enemies sucked out into space?  

Yes, I remember those changes.  

I remember so many other changes that lead to and later rectified with Vivergate.  

This sounds like a suggestion and not a concept.  Maybe you should post it in a better place?  Although I seem to recall -- vaguely -- this being asked for back when we started playing.  And to date, I think we're still waiting...  

yep, i'm now going to ignore you. i wasn't trying to be condescending, also who cares how much time you've wasted online? I've wasted plenty, why is that brag worthy? and why would i bother to report you, when all i have to do is ignore you and your posts? That being said.

i thought of another way to improve teh stealth system. A great way we could maybe improve it, is to enable us to utilize the air-vents more fully. perhaps adding in some sort of usable item to make a smoke screen giving us a 'stealth' buff so we can dispers into the system to avoid detection, even after teh alarms have gone off and such :D might make it more fun and less troublesome for reprogramming existing ai.