Goodwill Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) Just looking through a few threads and looked up what the other Warframes do, but I feel that Loki is a bunch of Warframes rolled into one. I haven't played Loki yet, but I do know what his abilities are and the basic details of them (wikia standards at the least...). Most of his abilities are covered by other Warframes that are quite frankly, more appropriate for them than they are for him. Decoy: Saryn has a similar version (I think?) of this from what I've seen. Switch Teleport: Ash has teleport although from when I last used him, the teleport was near useless as enemies would just rifle butt me as soon as I popped out. Staggering me then they would just lay all their shots down, most of the time killing me. While from what I've seen, Loki's teleport has much more utility and actually is a life saver. Invisibility: Again, a skill Ash has and they both have their tradeoffs. Ash's Smokescreen causes the enemies to stagger but the invisibility is shorter than Loki's. Which kind of defeats the purpose of Ash's ninja motif if he can't even be stealthier than a joker. Radial Disarm: Doesn't this ability sound much more fitting for Mag? Who is suppose to be like a magnet? And guns/firearms/weapons are generally metal? Other than that, it is like an uber version of Pull pretty much. Sorry for any Loki lovers out there but I kinda feel that he is the most unoriginal frame at the moment (although he may have been one of the first created, I don't know). His abilities appear to be better suited for other frames where their motifs would do them justice. Edited August 10, 2013 by Goodwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamescell Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 ... So you haven't played him but based on your intuition alone you think it's worth making a post about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althix Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) well. first of all majority of warframes are not not thought out.(well all of them actually) 1)decoy. Saryn can place a decoy only in the spot where she currently is. Loki can place a decoy by cursor. 2) mobility. 3) melee damage buff. 4) what? i have thief's wit in this slot. radial disarm is useless. he is the fastest. best frame for resources farming and boss killing and alerts rushing. Edited August 10, 2013 by Althix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agung.up Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 dude, how can you talk about things that you never try yet? it's like you talk about medical while you're a law student.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agung.up Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) 4) what? i have thief's wit in this slot. radial disarm is useless. oh for me, radial disarm is my triumph card. i spam it near gate on kappa and let them gather closer to my decoy.... than one-shot bunch of them with ogris. or simply make the heavies become $&*&*#(%& and then hit them with gram. repeatedly. all his skill maybe not really useful by itself, and some people hate that he don't have one-press-kill-all skill, but playing loki sure is fun. that's the important point in a game :D Edited August 10, 2013 by agung.up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambarpowder Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Loki is the best thought out frame in the game. It's pretty much the only frame who can combo its abilities (aside from nova, and that's just boring) and it has some of the best mobility options available. Other subsequent frames have taken from this one, but they're the redundant ones. Loki has all the abilities you mentioned AT ONCE, and that's why he excels. Saryn can't switch places with her booger doll. Ash can't teleport to a copy of himself somewhere far away. He can't direct aggro while invisble. And radial disarm is IMO the most unique 4 there is. I could say bastille would fit mag better and make just as much sense as you did. Play Loki. Learn the frame. Then whine if you still want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeJack Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) ... So you haven't played him but based on your intuition alone you think it's worth making a post about? THIS. "TIME TO GET LOKI". Edited August 10, 2013 by JusticeJack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 ... So you haven't played him but based on your intuition alone you think it's worth making a post about? Well, this is a community forum so I thought it was worth making a post about. If this was the like a dev or technical/bug forum or something then that would be a completely different matter. I do have an inverse point of view though, and can accept that maybe the other frames are just spanning out Loki's abilities. But regardless, it doesn't change the fact that his skills are very similar to other frames (or inversely, other frame abilities are similar to his) The reason why I side with other frames is because they have much more of the motif than Loki. Basic gist of Loki? God of mischief, general conclusion that people think of when they hear the name of the Norse God Loki? So, he does have a motif, and because of his more general category of "mischief" I would think they would have more freedom to think of unique skills. Not saying Loki should be removed, far from it because I like the naming convention of him and Excalibur rather than just in-your-face motifs like, Frost, Ember, Nova. And again, due to his motif, I feel he has much more potential than just using rehashed skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agung.up Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) Not saying Loki should be removed, far from it because I like the naming convention of him and Excalibur rather than just in-your-face motifs like, Frost, Ember, Nova. And again, due to his motif, I feel he has much more potential than just using rehashed skills. well you need to change the title then. saying "Is Loki Really Necessary?" make people think that you want Loki removed. and then with your first post that saying you don't try him first, only directing the hates to you because "how can a (sorry) noob like you that never try anything want the best frame to be removed??" or something like that. i agree. Loki actually have more much more potential as a "God of Mischief". but he is still right as he is now. saying that his skill is unnecessary because other warframe have the skills too is just like saying we don't need an architect because we already have civil engineer, electrical engineer, machine engineers, and else COMBINED. Edited August 10, 2013 by agung.up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 dude, how can you talk about things that you never try yet? it's like you talk about medical while you're a law student.... Well, I'm not exactly talking about how Loki plays persay. So unless his switch teleport is not teleport, and his invisibility is not invisibility, at the least the comparisons are there. Talking about things I've never tried? Kinda why I talk about them because I "haven't" tried it. If I've tried it, then I would believe that my opinion is sound and wouldn't need the opinions of others. But in this case, I am not too sure, hence why I posted it so I could discuss it with other people. So others could prove me wrong if that will be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althix Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) oh for me, radial disarm is my triumph card. i spam it near gate on kappa and let them gather closer to my decoy.... than one-shot bunch of them with ogris. or simply make the heavies become $&*&*#(%& and then hit them with gram. repeatedly. mmm. you know i doubt that stun provided by radial disarm is actually worth it. Yes mediums are rushing at you, but heavy grineers are simply standing at the spot where RD got them. Basically time loss because of Radial Disarm makes more ill that good. And in case of MD kill time is very important. Simple decoy behind crate or wall will do better. you know it's like dumbass vauban with bastille on MD. mobs are hanging in the air in the spot where you can hit them because there is no fire angle. And this grineer could be dead 5 times already and be replaced by another 5 grineer, which are xp, mod drop chance etc. Edited August 10, 2013 by Althix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 well you need to change the title then. saying "Is Loki Really Necessary?" make people think that you want Loki removed. and then with your first post that saying you don't try him first, only directing the hates to you because "how can a (sorry) noob like you that never try anything want the best frame to be removed??" or something like that. i agree. Loki actually have more much more potential as a "God of Mischief". but he is still right as he is now. saying that his skill is unnecessary because other warframe have the skills too is just like saying we don't need an architect because we already have civil engineer, electrical engineer, machine engineers, and else COMBINED. Yeah... my titling convention is a bit all over the place at the moment... I agree, bad title on my behalf. By all means, I don't think Loki is a bad frame, I don't think I've actually stated (maybe implied in the title) that he was bad. It is more so his abilities I am questioning when comparing it to other frames. And whether the motifs of the other frames, best fit the abilities that are his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agung.up Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 mmm. you know i doubt that stun provided by radial disarm is actually worth it. Yes mediums are rushing at you, but heavy grineers are simply standing at the spot where RD got them. Basically time loss because of Radial Disarm makes more ill that good. And in case of MD kill time is very important. Simple decoy behind crate or wall will do better. you know it's like dumbass vauban with bastille on MD. mobs are hanging in the air in the spot where you can hit them because there is no fire angle. And this grineer could be dead 5 times already and be replaced by another 5 grineer, which are xp, mod drop chance etc. well RD make heavies easier to beat, and the mediums melee damage is low enough. i don't see how there's timeloss.... but yeah, different people different playstyle. you can try meet me online in kappa and see how i manage to do that next time. Yeah... my titling convention is a bit all over the place at the moment... I agree, bad title on my behalf. By all means, I don't think Loki is a bad frame, I don't think I've actually stated (maybe implied in the title) that he was bad. It is more so his abilities I am questioning when comparing it to other frames. And whether the motifs of the other frames, best fit the abilities that are his. you can try to make some suggestion then, how to make it different or more useful by your standard. that way we have something worth dicussing :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistank Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 All sentinels hate Loki. That should be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althix Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 time loss by stun, you can lure them in the open by simple decoy and shoot them dead or melee them bad in invisibility if there is a need in this. so you cast RD, they get hit by it. mobs stunned. <-- this time. they could have run in the firezone by now. RD hits mobs behind the wall as well mind you. this delay by RD will cost you... well couple of waves for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agung.up Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 time loss by stun, you can lure them in the open by simple decoy and shoot them dead or melee them bad in invisibility if there is a need in this. so you cast RD, they get hit by it. mobs stunned. <-- this time. they could have run in the firezone by now. RD hits mobs behind the wall as well mind you. this delay by RD will cost you... well couple of waves for sure. oh i understand. well it's still a fun thing to do :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombaio Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) All sentinels hate Loki. That should be fixed. This^ This is the ONLY thing wrong with Loki. I haven't played Loki yet, but I will pretend that i'm an experinced Loki player and make suggestions of how usefull he is based on wild assumptions and blind guessing. Not the smartest move both here and in life in general. Friendly word of advice - try it, experiment with it, evaluate if your opinion is objective enough or it finds its foundations on peronal preference. THAN judge, and if it ain't working for you make suggestions or move one to the next thing you may potentonaly enjoy. Goes for everything - gaming, education, job, religion, shoping etc... Edited August 10, 2013 by zombaio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) well RD make heavies easier to beat, and the mediums melee damage is low enough. i don't see how there's timeloss.... but yeah, different people different playstyle. you can try meet me online in kappa and see how i manage to do that next time. you can try to make some suggestion then, how to make it different or more useful by your standard. that way we have something worth dicussing :) Yeah, you're right, but to be honest, I wanted to discuss my initial concerns first instead of jumping right into suggestions without knowing about the trend concerning the issue. But if I had to make a suggestion, I guess if I had to say what is one thing I know is right about Loki's abilities, is his Switch Teleport (still believe Ash's teleport is kinda useless). It is teleporting, yet it is mischievous. An ability that can affect both enemies and allies alike and can sow confusion on the field. While his invisibility, is just straight out invisibility. Definitely a place where you can be more creative like the Switch Teleport. Decoy, I've heard some suggestions to make his decoy indistinguishable from the player themselves. I think this would be a much better idea as it could cause confusion between enemies and allies alike without proper communication. The gist is, I think his abilities would be much more motif accurate if they can be a double-edged sword of sorts and can only be remedied by communication between players. Further adding to the teamplay experience of Warframe, plus giving Loki a few unique drawbacks. With his Radial Disarm, to be honest, I it suits Mag more, plus I really don't know how you would make it slightly mischievous for your allies as well without it being a complete troll. Nyx's ability Caos I think would have been better suited for Loki. Edited August 10, 2013 by Goodwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) This^ This is the ONLY thing wrong with Loki. Not the smartest move both here and in life in general. Friendly word of advice - try it, experiment with it, evaluate if your opinion is objective enough or it finds its foundations on peronal preference. THAN judge, and if it ain't working for you make suggestions or move one to the next thing you may potentonaly enjoy. Goes for everything - gaming, education, job, religion, shoping etc... Well, firstly, I never said Loki is useless. I was questioning the motifs of his abilities in comparison to other frames. I guess you could call my opinion, a first impressions of sorts. But I wanted to view this as someone who looks on the Wikia or those "Crash Course in Warframe" videos and sees that his abilities are similar to other Warframes and is trying to decide what would be the best path to take. Whether I will like Ash's invisibility more than Loki's, or Saryn's Molt than Loki's Decoy? I will admit, I was slightly (okay, a bit more than slightly) annoyed when I got Ash, and his teleport had such a drawback and very little utility in comparison to Loki's. Then also finding out that Loki's invisibility lasts longer. But for that last point, I got inverse arguments so I am not at all disappointed by the difference in invisibility. And the whole, "try something first" has lost me thousands of dollars in education so... I'm a bit iffy when it comes to that. But your statement does have merit, I just happened to receive the bad side of it. Edited August 10, 2013 by Goodwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althix Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 are you.... a roleplayer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon093 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) Although I think that Loki is a great warframe, I will say that in some cases his decoy just doesn't cut it in the t3 defenses where even the basic units destroy it in like less than a second, which is kind of silly. Even if you Radial Disarm most corpus units can poke it to death in a matter of seconds I think if you can use all the abilities at once its great but I also feel like each ability should be on its own pretty good. In my opinion all the abilities fit that including decoy. The only problem is the decoy in the late game. I was wondering if maybe the decoy could be based on loki's health/shield or like not actually be able to die on its own. Maybe even an exploding decoy would be cool too. Just so we can put those Focus mods to use. And yeah I guess you can do that decoy in a crate thing, but every time I do that I feel like I'm exploiting the game mechanics. The thing should be decent without whacking the modelling engine in the face. Edited August 10, 2013 by Demon093 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 He's the squishiest and fastest by far. So he has his niche especially thanks to his powerful invis. There is another thread about Loki suggestions on this same forum that has amazing ideas posted by Amazagon.Check it out here:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/92974-ideas-for-loki/page-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrothingLoins Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Lowwwwwwwwwwkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arisaka Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I started with Loki, but I don't have experience with enemies above level 45, so I can't talk about high level anything. However, I can say that Loki is really a love-him-or-hate-him warframe. Why? 1. He has no damage with skills, so everything has to come from teammates or weapons. This is what is currently pissing me off about Loki, since I favor melee weapons and ranged weapons are simply much easier to kill stuff with. However, it's easy to use melee weapons with him since he has invisibility and decoy, so he doesn't get attacked very much. 2. He is so squishy that having no energy means that your teammates have to save you. 3. His first two spells are extremely good and they're low energy cost (25 for decoy and 50 for invisibility), which is great since he has 225 energy at level 30. Here are my thoughts on his skills. 1. Decoy dies too fast. It shouldn't have health at all, but its duration should be shorter (I was thinking around 6-8 seconds at level 3) 2. Invisibility has no problems. 3. Switch teleport is useless. It has a cast time and it has no real offensive capabilities. It's not even that useful for saving people since you can just invisbility and revive, and Loki's base movement speed lets him get there really fast. 4. I honestly don't know how good this skill is, since I never use it. It always seems better to use decoy + invisibility. I guess it helps if your team has AOE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Kittens- Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Hate to break it to you, but every warframe aside from Nova and Saryn are simply superfluous in most respects. What matters most on the usage metric is awesome, interesting, and cool, and Loki has all of those . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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