My Ash Rework

[-RS-Covenant]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

It takes me like 3 seconds to triple mark a horde of enemies and I play on console....

Are you saying Auto-target would not be a benefit? #4

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

24 minutes ago, Hyperdrome said:

Are you saying Auto-target would not be a benefit? #4

Too much of a benefit, it would just turn Ash back into a press4towin frame and get him nerfed again.

We don't need it.

[KicsiPaszuj]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

Actually now that I think about it your ideas are pretty bad...

Fatal teleport is Ash's best scaling ability if you use CL, but without that seeking shuriken is actually better.

Your shuriken idea is really meh tbh, 15 energy per shuriken, would mean 30 energy cost for just casting the ability normally compared to 25, which would be a Nerf, and if the energy cost scales with the amount of shurikens you can have, than that would cost 180 energy for 12 shurikens. Also, 150 slash damage with 60 slash procs? That would make the ability useless against anything over lvl 20 content, current shuriken deals 500 slash damage with 200 slash procs.

I can already blitz through lvl 40-50 content with current shuriken, so your change would be a fancy Nerf in reality.

Smokescreen idea is actually a group Nerf for Ash, this is garbage considering the fact that the ability has a short duration which is meant to be a "get out of trouble" free card.

Your teleport idea makes me want to cry. 50 energy per target is just beyond bad and 15 energy while inv is just old bladestorm but worst. 

Teleport is supposed to serve as a mobility tool with a finisher proc added on.

Your bladestorm idea is already a huge  no no since I would rather not rely on A.I.(especially Warframe's A.I.) to do something current bladestorm clones can do automatically(which is killing stuff)

 

Fatal teleport scales just as far... try hammers, lets say... Jat kittag. With blitz for aoe fun. its 200+ bombards raped with their near relatives together.

Ash doesent *need* covert lethality, tbh.

I dont think anything matters over lvl 200, but... still.. theres covert lethality. Why would i let it out from the picture. Fatal teleport is the best scaleing skill. Period.

Well with shuriken cost, simple numbers can be corrected. 15 or 10... even 5 is fine for me. Its utility should be in line with its function. But i think i wanted to write "15 energy per shuriken CAST" ty for correcting. Ill edit it.

 It does lower dmg, becouse now its purpose would be to dispatch 12+ targets up to lvl ~30 under 1.5 sec. Something that Ash lacks. Also to rise skyhigh your combo. The current shuriken CANT do that. 

You only see the individual skills, not the whole kit of the Frame. The skill does less dmg, but fills a hole in the kit.

The fact you can blitz trough lvl50s with pressing 1s is bad actually, but i wont go further on that. Thats not a problem of Ash or his shuriken.

My suggested shuriken would deal more than that dmg. Read the passive. Also each cast can target the same enemy, also punchtrough with multitarget-seeking shotgun barrage shurikens... it dont need high dmg...but yes, flat dmg per energy would be lower.

I would be fine with even a 6x12 shuriken for double the original cost, so ~30-50 energy. I just DONT want to make the character about spamming 1s to eliminate lvl60+ screens. Players are abusive.

Also you had not added clones to the calculation. They would double your shuriken dmg even at two. See? You see only individual skills. Not the whole picture.

Smokescreen is 15+ sec with a sh1tty build. With two clones its 5+sec for the group. But you dont need that, becouse they can be perma invis if casted from invis. So you only need to share with players. I dont want him to be able to hide the whole party cheap becouse its a terrible design (octavia, dammit), while being fully mobile. I wish to see it, as an occassional help when, lets say the frostglobe breakes. Stun and 3-5sec invis for the entire team, from a dedicated assassin. Thats my vision.

But im fine with the current smokescreen. That change would be just a fine-tuning that scales the cost with the spells power.

Teleport is a limitless instagib tool with some mobility added to it. Dammit Boy, make your priorities.

On the clones... You dont have to rely on them. You can trick the system to shut out the limits of the AI. Simply when Teleport is casted, the clones disappear, and the same amount of targets get bladestormed, as the number of your clones. But ninjas running around throwing shuriken hailstorms is cool.

The old bladestorn was bad. It had infinite target acquisiton with huge dmg.

The new bladestorm requieres slightly too much interaction for its purpose. 

My suggestion composes two skills (actually clones have synergy with ALL skills) for a more balanced effect.

It has the automatic killing, but with limited number of targets. Best of booth.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

3 hours ago, KicsiPaszuj said:

 It does lower dmg, becouse now its purpose would be to dispatch 12+ targets up to lvl ~30 under 1.5 sec. Something that Ash lacks. Also to rise skyhigh your combo. The current shuriken CANT do that. 

So you nerfed shuriken's total damage and instead forced it into completely relying on Ash's passive, which also forces you to use like 2 weapon types. 

So the only good thing about this is the combo building, which is already super easy.

I'll just use my weapons at this point.

3 hours ago, KicsiPaszuj said:

Smokescreen is 15+ sec with a sh1tty build. With two clones its 5+sec for the group. But you dont need that, becouse they can be perma invis if casted from invis. So you only need to share with players. I dont want him to be able to hide the whole party cheap becouse its a terrible design (octavia, dammit), while being fully mobile. I wish to see it, as an occassional help when, lets say the frostglobe breakes. Stun and 3-5sec invis for the entire team, from a dedicated assassin. Thats my vision.

You do realize that the 15 seconds of smokescreen in a "bad build" basically makes you untouchable right? If you play higher than lvl 60 content, you will appreciate every second of it.

Your suggestion would most likely get Ash himself killed because now his only survivability skill is inconsistent.

I'll just never use him with a group then.

3 hours ago, KicsiPaszuj said:

Teleport is a limitless instagib tool with some mobility added to it. Dammit Boy, make your priorities.

No, I'm just stating what the ability true priorities is, waaaaaay back in the old days of Warframe where parkour was janky, teleport didn't even have a finisher proc on it, it just teleported Ash to enemies, then DE added finishers to it.

Even so your idea just turns it into old bladestorm but clunker

3 hours ago, KicsiPaszuj said:

The old bladestorn was bad. It had infinite target acquisiton with huge dmg.

It only targeted 18 enemies at max, but yes it was bad

3 hours ago, KicsiPaszuj said:

The new bladestorm requieres slightly too much interaction for its purpose. 

But it really doesn't, it takes me 3 seconds to triple mark a room full of sortie 3 enemies, and while bladestorm kills everything in the room, I can literally do anything I want. I would argue that new bladestorm doesn't require enough interaction for what it does, but I'm not complaining.

3 hours ago, KicsiPaszuj said:

My suggestion composes two skills (actually clones have synergy with ALL skills) for a more balanced effect.

That's way too much gimmicky synergy for Ash.

 

Hate to be rude, but your changes isn't going to do Ash any favors, especially with how much love he has been getting after the recent bladestorm rework, these change would just make a strong, energy efficient, and straight forward frame into a clunky, forced synergy, gimmicky, and most likely energy hungry frame.

As everybody in this thread said, Ash is finally seen as a top tier frame now and we shouldn't be making drastic changes to him.

[Timberwolf581]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

Ash is finally seen as a top tier frame now

So what changed?

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

1 hour ago, Timberwolf581 said:

So what changed?

What changed is that now people are realizing how good of a damage frame he is.

[Timberwolf581]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

What changed is that now people are realizing how good of a damage frame he is.

In that case I didn't get the memo.

[-RS-Covenant]

18 hours ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

Too much of a benefit, it would just turn Ash back into a press4towin frame and get him nerfed again.

We don't need it.

Warframe is a "Power Fantasy" game.  Its suppose to leave in Awe, "too much benefit" should not exist in Warframe.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

13 minutes ago, Hyperdrome said:

Warframe is a "Power Fantasy" game.  Its suppose to leave in Awe, "too much benefit" should not exist in Warframe.

But it does exist.

Those of us who are happy to have a "total package" Ash that can perform at high level AND at low level just want him left the hell alone before something gets messed up.

He's in a great place now. He takes a little effort to get the most out of, but if you put in that effort... you get the rewards! 

What more is needed...?!

[Timberwolf581]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)INe Saninus said:

What more is needed...?!

A more reliable way to opt into the bladestorm animation?

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

59 minutes ago, Timberwolf581 said:

A more reliable way to opt into the bladestorm animation?

I don't find an issue with this.

I don't find an issue with you requesting this.

The thing Ash players are afraid of is if you increase the the targeting radius of Bladestorm it will make it too easy to use. We will run the risk of it becoming press 4 to win. If it that happens, it will receive the nerf hammer.

I'd rather work for my rewards than not have any to begin with.

You want an easier opt in...? I hope they give it to you.

If anyone wants a larger targeting radius, I hope they don't.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Timberwolf581 said:

A more reliable way to opt into the bladestorm animation?

be glad you even have a way to opt in. many of us have been pushing for them to remove the "go have a tea break" stuck in animation. if you cant be bothered to use blade storm then press 3 to opt in, you should re-evaluate your priorities.

Edited March 18, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Timberwolf581]

13 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

be glad you even have a way to opt in. many of us have been pushing for them to remove the "go have a tea break" stuck in animation. if you cant be bothered to use blade storm then press 3 to opt in, you should re-evaluate your priorities.

Currently I can't be bothered to press 4 at all.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

28 minutes ago, Timberwolf581 said:

Currently I can't be bothered to press 4 at all.

Can you switch to another frame?

You're capable of doing that, right?

Edited March 18, 2018 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Timberwolf581]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

Can you switch to another frame?

You're capable of doing that, right?

Sure, plenty of frames I like, but they'll always be secondary to Ash.