Hosts Need To Be Able To Kick Players!

[VKhaun]

Citing what trolls can do is meaningless because they are a constant. If the host doesn't have any power, trolls are trolls and no one can do anything about it. If the host has power, trolls are still trolls if they get the host spot but you would have been in a troll's game or an otherwise bad game anyway. if a good player is hosting they can now do something about it.

 

No kick = lose / lose

Kick = Lose / Win

Vote kick = Lose / Maybe Win

Revamp of missions and grouping = Win / Win

 

 

We should take Lose / Win, until the devs can make enough changes to salvage public gaming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, this is supposed to be a multiplayer game but we have tons of issues with multiplayer right now. Lots of people will have arguments for/against the ability for a Host to kick. Certainly, it could be abused and is not perfect, but RIGHT NOW, the grouping situation for public games is so dismal that I think it would do more good than harm, to add the ability for hosts to kick people.

 

I've heard in live streams that the devs want to do things like adding flags for player types like 'rusher' and what not, and that we're adding new mission types, but those will not work perfectly on the first try. They will have their own issues and bugs to work through. We need you to make the game into a functional multiplayer experience TODAY NOW and then work on fixing the other stuff as you can. 

 

If you commit to this dev strategy of letting multiplayer be crappy and mix matched until you come up with something perfect, you're just condemning us to a crappy multiplayer scene for a very, very long time.

 

 

 

 

 

Please let me kick the Rank0 Excaliburs with MK1-Bratons out of my Pluto mission so someone actually capable of helping me can join. Please let me kick that Volt who is nine rooms ahead and wants to solo the boss my friend and I are here to fight. Please let me kick the guy who won't come help open a door. Please let me kick the Rhino who ignores Corpus cameras two rooms ahead so I have to stare at laser barriers whenever the lag is just enough that the doors are delayed opening.

 

I know some kid is going to kick me from a game right before the end one night because he thinks that's what trolling is. I don't care. It's totally worth it to be able to save all the other games that I start myself.

 

Thanks.

Edited August 11, 2013 by VKhaun

[Nyrakav]

I know some kid is going to kick me from a game right before the end one night because he thinks that's what trolling is. I don't care. It's totally worth it to be able to save all the other games that I start myself.

 

You killed it. Although you make a good point, a votekick system would be much better rather than an Instakick.

Edited August 11, 2013 by ReconZ3X

[Kickboxing_Banana]

There should be mastery rank requirements for high-level planets.

Bosses should only spawn after ALL the players have reached the boss room.

Edited August 11, 2013 by GalliumGD

[VKhaun]

Although you make a good point, a votekick system would be much better rather than an Instakick.

 

I strongly disagree. Having played lots of games with votekick options I have never ever once seen it used effectively. League of Legends, Killing Floor, Counter-Strike, dozens of free games... they just turn into griefing tools or annoyances and in many games people just always automatically vote 'no' to every kick because they're not paying attention and don't want to be rude. The only time things make sense and are useful is when there's an admin who kick bump people off the server. Sure, you get bad admins just like you get issues with other players, but because there's no voting the admin becomes the control factor, and people LEAVE if it's a bad admin and servers gain regular members when they have good admins.

 

Granted the cons SEEM to get heavier because this game has short matches and small groups, but the concept is still the same due to the friend's list. Bad hosts will not make friends and they'll just cycle more riff raff. Good hosts will make friends and cycle into more and more games with partial invites, and into full private games.

 

Like minded players will find eachother more effectively because instead of being some faceless warframe the host's attitudes towards playstyles and player behaviors will be clear when he kicks people or leaves people in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

There should be mastery rank requirements for high-level planets.

Bosses should only spawn after ALL the players have reached the boss room.

 

Right, this is what I was talking about.

 

There are TONS of good ideas out there to help the game by gating content, adding optional flags so rushers only join rushers, new mission types and tweaks to old ones that for a minimum or maximum pace on players so there's no arguments... but that all takes time and will have it's own issues. We need a simple and direct way to fix the games ourselves, NOW, while they develop all those tools and upgrades.

[Indalx]

Vote system instead of Host having full power is a lot better.That way he will need a friend to troll you,and even then you might not get kicked.

[Carcharias]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/91513-oh-no-you-dont-squad-management/

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https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/89113-ignore-or-blacklist-kick/

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NO !

 

(this again?  *facepalm)

 

No. Don't feed the trolls.

No kick, no vote kick.

 

Go play with like minded players. That's what the contacts list is for. (and clans) An ignore list would be nice though.

 

Every MMO that has a kick sees it getting abused in a variety of different scenarios.

 

Here is how to not play with trolls.

 

Contact list

1) Play with random people.

2) Add people whose play style you agree with to your contacts list.

3) Do not add people to your contacts list that you disagree with for any reason. (any reason at all it's up to you)

4) After some time you will have a list of players personally approved by you. Play with them.

5) Maintain your list. If you need to boot someone or if someone stops playing you may have to play some more randoms to refill your list.

 

NO KICK of any kind. Blacklist, sure. Way less potential to be used by the trolls. Do you not understand that the 3% you are complaining about will have the ability to kick other players too? Why give the trolls that power? With a blacklist yes, you have to play with the troll once, but only once! And no one gets kicked just because they happen to be on a Loki frame, or because they're new and they got lost, or because they broke a window.

 

No

 

Kick

 

[VKhaun]

Go play with like minded players. That's what the contacts list is for. (and clans) An ignore list would be nice though.

 

 

 

That's totally backwards. How do you find like minded players when public games are terrible? You don't. You abandon them and go looking for a clan or community outside the game. That's NONSENSE. There is no point in having public games if all the devs are going to do is let them be crap.

 

Citing what trolls can do is meaningless because they are a constant. If the host doesn't have any power, trolls are trolls and no one can do anything about it. If the host has power, trolls are still trolls if they get the host spot but you would have been in a troll's or otherwise bad game anyway. if a good player is hosting they can now do something about it.

 

No kick = lose / lose

Kick = Lose / Win

Vote kick = Lose / Maybe Win

Revamp of missions and grouping = Win / Win

 

 

We should take Lose / Win, until the devs can make enough changes to salvage public gaming.

 

Leaving public games the domain of trolls and rushers or other players who don't care about anyone else's experience is SUICIDE for a free to play game with no advertising. It's NONSENSE. It's a position with NO MERIT. Almost all public games are CRAP and giving hosts a kick would make at least some of them playable for new players and slow players. The cons of the kick ability just mean crap games and that's where we are now anyway!

Edited August 11, 2013 by VKhaun

[Carcharias]

That's totally backwards. How do you find like minded players when public games are terrible?

 

Thought I already addressed this pretty well. But that's ok, copy and paste to the rescue !

 

Contact list

1) Play with random people.

2) Add people whose play style you agree with to your contacts list.

3) Do not add people to your contacts list that you disagree with for any reason. (any reason at all it's up to you)

4) After some time you will have a list of players personally approved by you. Play with them.

5) Maintain your list. If you need to boot someone or if someone stops playing you may have to play some more randoms to refill your list.

 

Yes, I admit, there is a little sarcasm there, but it works! It really truly does. How do I know? Cause it worked for me! You can do it too, just follow this easy step by step program.

 

30 day trial is free, after that it's $9.99 a month. I accept cash or money order, make orders out to Captin Obvious Jr. the 4 twice removed to the left.

 

Don't feed the trolls!

Edited August 11, 2013 by Carcharias

[VKhaun]

Thought I already addressed this pretty well. But that's ok, copy and paste to the rescue !

 

Contact list

1) Play with random people.

2) Add people whose play style you agree with to your contacts list.

3) Do not add people to your contacts list that you disagree with for any reason. (any reason at all it's up to you)

4) After some time you will have a list of players personally approved by you. Play with them.

5) Maintain your list. If you need to boot someone or if someone stops playing you may have to play some more randoms to refill your list.

 

 

You just cut out of my quote the part where I answered you, and quoted the text I answered.

Edited August 11, 2013 by VKhaun

[Carcharias]

That's because you haven't even tried it yet. You seem to want a perfect fix right now that will empower player and troll alike. I am strongly opposed to this. I have seen kick options (both host and vote) in other games and there is always problems with people getting kicked (trolled) for purely superficial reasons when they weren't actually doing anything wrong.

 

"You abandon them and go looking for a clan or community outside the game. That's NONSENSE."

 

- No, no it's not. That's how you find a guild/ clan/ army/ battle-group. Finding a bunch of like minded players is part of playing a coop MMO! (especially in a MMO where play styles can vary so much)

 

Most people agree that the trolls are a minority. You claim that "public games are terrible". I have over 550 hours in game. If there was a blacklist I would probably have about 10 names there. (If your problem is that widespread have you ever looked at the common denominator?) You are the first person I have seen here seemingly claiming that there is more troll than player. Blacklist (unsharable) is pretty troll proof. Why would you give guns to both sides when there is an alternative that can do little to no harm?

 

Blacklist > Kick. And in the mean time you can use the contacts list if you want, you can also join a clan. Neither of which will get anyone kicked, deserving or not.

 

Kick punishes anyone whom the player/s in power deem deserving. Guilty or innocent, it's up to the other player.

 

Blacklist punishes no one. The target of the blacklist doesn't even have to know that they are being blacklisted. And you don't end up kicking a person to have them rejoin 2 seconds later cause matchmaker threw them back in your group.

 

Look at the big picture. No kick.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Carcharias

[redregon]

Gotta step in here for a moment... How is saying "no" to an idea because it could possibly be abused by a small sub-group of players intent on trolling or being petty $&*^s reason enough to say that something like that should never be done? Yeah, it's been abused in similar games before but why not look at WHY and HOW they've been abused instead of just saying a blanket "no."

There does need to be a means of controlling the game in terms of who you get paired up with... and pardon me for saying it but saying "get a guild" is a rather pathetic answer... because it's forcing players to choose a way of playing which they might not want to... or it might be forcing them to make a decision which they aren't yet able to fully understand the consequences of.

And to be honest, consider it from the newbie's perspective... they want to get the full experience of the game on their first run and having someone rush and kill Vor or whatever end boss before they can have some fun with them themselves is kinda ruining it. I've only had two boss runs not spoiled by rushers trying to farm for whatever drops there are and each time the boss has been killed in less than 30 seconds. Takes all the fun out of it and turns it into a case of this game essentially becoming a sort of skinner-box game where you're playing the odds.

Most of us are seasoned... so, that's going to flavour our perspective... but we can't assume that the way that we play is THE way to play (and it's actually kinda arrogant to assume that.) and if this game then becomes something that only a core group of gamers will want to play, that's limiting the potential subscriber base for this game which will result in lacklustre revenue generation (DE IS a company at the end of the day and they have bills and wages to pay.)

EDIT: Felt I should at the very least offer some suggestions on how to make this a positive experience rather than a negative one. So, if a vote was instituted, maybe have the person that's being kicked have a message such as "your team has been called away on an emergency mission, Looks like you're solo until I can find some more reinforcements" (Lotus's voice, of course) and in the voting reasons, have a selection of reasons that you MUST choose in order to actually hold a vote... then their account is tagged for a while and that tag is linked to the frame that they used. Reason I think that the tag would be needed for a frame-by-frame basis is because if you're playing as a volt and doing a rush run, being tagged as a rusher might not help you when you switch to a rhino with a slow/tank build. (and rushing with a rhino isn't as easy as it is with a volt.)

Edited August 26, 2013 by redregon

[FalsePride]

theres a bunch of games out there with a "host kick system" or a "vote to kick system" and on nearly all of them there are trolls and kick jerks who do it just to tick people off. all in all i dont think there should be a player managed kick system.

 

VKhaun made  a good point with examples of silly reasons people would kick u. 

Edited August 26, 2013 by FalsePride

[Tsukinoki]

Biggest issue with a host can kick with no vote?

Think of a bunch of people sitting on the Mercury missions and just insta-kicking all of the new players that join the missions.

You don't think that that will drive people away from the game? (Hint: it will)

The ONLY way for a kick or vote-kick to avoid major trolling like that is to have pre-conditions on the kick that MUST be met before the kick can occur.

Such as:

-Must have been AFK for X time

-Must have been in the same room without other players for X time (to avoid people just weighting down the 'w' button or something to avoid the AFK

-Must have been X tiles away from the rest of the party for X amount of time (this will catch both rushers and turtlers)

-Must be holding the spy datamas for X amount of time when the rest of the party is at extraction

-Must be holding the deception datamass for X amount of time when rest of the party is at the deception room (same for mobile defense)

Without having preconditions that the person must have met at lest one of a kick/vote kick system will just be abuesd by trolls a hell of a lot more than used properly.

Further:

With a kick/vote kick feature you have to deal with the troll in the future in random missions!

With a blacklist feature you deal with them once and never again.

Plus I would rather not see the forums being flooded by:

"I was kicked because I was X frame!" (Mag/Volt/Vauban/Nova/etc...)

"I was kicked because I was using X weapon!" (Any weapon deemed 'useless' by the host)

Or people throwing fits because they were all kicked from the alert for the super rare item that they needed to finish a frame (or even worse kicking people and ruining event runs for them because now they get nothing!)

[PsychedelicSnake]

Blacklist.

[Ishki88]

Do you ever READ region?

 

Hell no.

 

No votekicking system period.