Warframes and Abilities to be Nerfed

[Dr.Wuzzah]

53 minutes ago, Checht said:

Please see updated original post for "skillful" gameplay footage in Sortie 3.

Seems to me like you don't have enough enemies to fight. If they come in that sparsely any frame can deal with them. In other words you shouldn't be asking for nerfs but enemy buffs, like everyone in this thread has been telling you.

Once again if you think that ability "spam" in your video is truly spam then I suggest you watch a Banshee deal with some trash mobs. 

This shouldn't be a duck shooter, and clearly there is a balance to be made between volume of enemies and ability use over time. But I think most people would agree it would be lame if your abilities would boil down to nothing after hours of grinding for them. After all the grind for power is the thing that makes a lot of people continue playing. Hence why people are saying, don't nerf abilities make enemies stronger. Otherwise this game will be Destiny 2.0.

And if you aren't convinced then I'm starting to believe horde shooters simply aren't your cup of tea. Or perhaps you may want to try a different one such as Destiny.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Dr.Wuzzah
Spelling and grammar

[Femuru]

in my opinion (doesnt mean yur right or wrong so dont chew my head off plz) this game is meant to feel like its a hack in slash in the format of a shooter meaning u kill dozen of enemies at a time clearing wave after wave easily and alot of ppl like that kind of mindless clearing. however since this game is grindy as hell id rather not use up alot of time going thru a single mission if its nerfing those quick clear button press win is understandable asking a rework on those. i can understand that the enemies can be too ez especially the first few planets even for beginners so why not ask to just buff the enemies? nerfing our equipment is one of the reasons majority (ppl that actually stayed past the inital stage of the game) of players that quit actually decide to quit. im completely fine wit de nerfing something broken where u stay still and everything is dead but if they put that much man power and effort to just nerf all the warframes itll take a big poll on the player base and game content. the amount of ppl raging from single single warframe nerfs was crazy and i was one of the ppl fine wit the nerfs cuz i dint like the thought of cheesing the game but even i kno nerfing everything will bring the game down. itll be more understandable if they gave new challenging missions or buff the enemies in general (not scaling tho the scaling is wack lmao)

[BlackCoMerc]

40 minutes ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

Seems to me like you don't have enough enemies to fight. If they come in that sparsely any frame can deal with them. In other words you shouldn't be asking for nerfs but enemy buffs, like everyone in this thread has been telling you.

Once again if you think that ability "spam" in your video is truly spam then I suggest you watch a Banshee deal with some trash mobs. 

This shouldn't be a duck shooter, and clearly there is a balance to be made between volume of enemies and ability use over time. But I think most people would agree it would be lame if your abilities would boil down to nothing after hours of grinding for them. After all the grind for power is the thing that makes a lot of people continue playing. Hence why people are saying, don't nerf abilities make enemies stronger. Otherwise this game will be Destiny 2.0.

And if you aren't convinced then I'm starting to believe horde shooters simply aren't your cup of tea. Or perhaps you may want to try a different one such as Destiny.

NOow you've won any number of self erected Strawman arguments, don't you think its time to tackle the actual discussion? You know, the one about how Warframe powers make enemies LITERALLY IRRELEVANT?

Larger hordes, you say? I say Disarm. Chaos. Slowva. Perpetually. Because I will be recharged and ready to recast the moment one of those wears off or new enemies appear. Increasing enemy count does not matter as long as players use cheat code level "powers" to shut down AI functions.

Make enemies stronger? Why? Did you miss the part where we - again, literally - TURN OFF THEIR BASIC FUNCTIONALITY? Superman's strength doesn't matter when you can flip a switch and keep him perpetually brain dead.

Go play Destiny? Really? It's a crap game that doesn't do anything especially well and a different genre besides. ("Poorly disguised corridor shooter" I think they call it). So, if.someonen disagrees with you, it's because the topic "isn't for them." That's a cheap cop out if ever there was one, and one that gamers love, no less.

Warframe veterans are asking for challenging content. Not for ALL content to become challenging. We are not out to Rob anyone of their power fantasy. We just want to be challenged now and then while playing.

But we also cann acknowledge that, barring changes to frames - AND corresponding nerfs to enemies - that isn't going to happen. Balance on this game is a runaway train. And it's snowballing down hill.

What does that mean? This:

So many frames can turn enemy interaction off, that the ONLY way enemies cann interact with players reliably, is to script control robbing or power robbing abilities that fire off the MOMENT a player is in range. Not from the enemy; animations take time. No, the game itself triggers these cheap traps, as seen by ancients whose hooks snare you while they look and move in another direction, without any corresponding animations played.

But what if you WANT genuine interaction? So you choose not to play an Iron Skinned, hard CC wielding powerhouse? Well then, you're punished by constant cheap, power robbing, input halting frustration the entire mission. 

This binary right/wrong playstyle choice is a DIRECT RESULT of players so grossly overpowered that the we may as well wield cheat codes. And.its.only getting worse.

When I started, Butchers couldn't knock WARFRAMES around, chargers didn't have projectiles, Nullifer/Nullification didn't exist (I'd have just quit; I already HAVE Mass Effect, and I don't want another generic sci fi shooter). Capture missions allowed power use (read: they MADE LIGUCSL SENSE) and you had to THINK about spending 75 energy on an Ultrasound before doing it.

Then we got Pizzas. And Siphon. And FLEETING EXPERTISE (the game breaker).

And then, we got Nullifier, Denial Bursa, Comba/Scramba and Invulnerable bosses like some cut rate 90's JRPG.

Then we got Energizing Dash because the devs apparently didn't learn from any of the above.

And the result.of all this: our newest end game bosses are IMMUNE TO ALL THE POWER WE WORKED SO HARD TO ACCUMULATE.

That's how grossly OP we are. Imagine WoW introducing a Raid.boss immune to character abilities. Or Skyrim shoving a boss down your throat that's immune to magic, and can only be attacked when it says so. These would be laughed out.of existence by player numbers going down hill like an avalanche on an ice slope.

That's how precarious a situation Warframe occupies right now. The game is barely interactive for most frames. And it outright punishes the rest of the frames with annoying Tedium for NOT just turning off the interaction. That's pitifully bad design, any way you slice it.

Typed on mobile.

Edited to make it a bit less snarky.

Edited March 25, 2018 by BlackCoMerc

[BlackCoMerc]

5 minutes ago, ShenRyujin said:

in my opinion (doesnt mean yur right or wrong so dont chew my head off plz) this game is meant to feel like its a hack in slash in the format of a shooter meaning u kill dozen of enemies at a time clearing wave after wave easily and alot of ppl like that kind of mindless clearing. however since this game is grindy as hell id rather not use up alot of time going thru a single mission if its nerfing those quick clear button press win is understandable asking a rework on those. i can understand that the enemies can be too ez especially the first few planets even for beginners so why not ask to just buff the enemies? nerfing our equipment is one of the reasons majority (ppl that actually stayed past the inital stage of the game) of players that quit actually decide to quit. im completely fine wit de nerfing something broken where u stay still and everything is dead but if they put that much man power and effort to just nerf all the warframes itll take a big poll on the player base and game content. the amount of ppl raging from single single warframe nerfs was crazy and i was one of the ppl fine wit the nerfs cuz i dint like the thought of cheesing the game but even i kno nerfing everything will bring the game down. itll be more understandable if they gave new challenging missions or buff the enemies in general (not scaling tho the scaling is wack lmao)

The idea behind reigning in Frame powers, is that enemies receive corresponding changes to rid them of cheap, input robbing garbage Mechanics that only existed because of good like player power. This.is the ONLY way I support lowering player power: enemies MUST losentheir cheap,nconteol robbing, screen obfuscating abilities.

I don't want players nerfed. I want the game to actually be interactive again.

[(PSN)FutureCrusader]

No. 

Just no.

[Dr.Wuzzah]

You act like you don't interact with enemies at all but let me stop you right there because that is nonsense. DE have stated that there intention is for players to interact with enemies in a way that is engaging. That means I can't make myself a cup of coffee while my ember clears several waves in a defense mission. If this is still a problem in some frames then we need to address it so they can change it. From OP's video you can see, he clearly isn't just sitting still.

If you don't like the level of engagement required either ask for enemy buffs or ask for player nerfs. But then nerfing would make A LOT of players unhappy. And you say buffing enemies is impossible. Well maybe that's true, but I rather have DE try and prove you wrong by making enemies challenging rather than pissing off a lot of people. 

From a neutral POV that's probably what DE will try to do because they like power fantasy. That's IF they decide to address this issue.

I think they won't anywhere in the near future. Hence I told OP he might want to try something else if he dislikes how easy this game is now.

[Checht]

2 hours ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

Seems to me like you don't have enough enemies to fight. If they come in that sparsely any frame can deal with them. In other words you shouldn't be asking for nerfs but enemy buffs, like everyone in this thread has been telling you.

Solo play naturally has lower spawn rate. To do a control test, I have to do it solo. If I were to do the test with a squad, you'd just say I'm having an easy time because of my teammates.

2 hours ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

Once again if you think that ability "spam" in your video is truly spam then I suggest you watch a Banshee deal with some trash mobs. 

When did I imply that other frames do not have spam-able overpowered abilities?

45 minutes ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

You act like you don't interact with enemies at all but let me stop you right there because that is nonsense. DE have stated that there intention is for players to interact with enemies in a way that is engaging. That means I can't make myself a cup of coffee while my ember clears several waves in a defense mission. If this is still a problem in some frames then we need to address it so they can change it. From OP's video you can see, he clearly isn't just sitting still.

Yes, I am not just sitting still, I need to press 2 and then E as Excalibur, 2 and 3 as Ash (so much skill, so much brain activity). Saying that the current state where we can just turn off enemies' brain with hard CC skills isn't that bad because we still need to attack the stationary targets is like saying tic-tac-toe isn't that bad because at least it isn't a 1x1x1 Rubik's cube.

45 minutes ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

If you don't like the level of engagement required either ask for enemy buffs or ask for player nerfs. But then nerfing would make A LOT of players unhappy. And you say buffing enemies is impossible. Well maybe that's true, but I rather have DE try and prove you wrong by making enemies challenging rather than pissing off a lot of people. 

Buff how? Please suggest a way to buff enemies that can get around being turned into brain dead targets. Otherwise, BlackCoMerc has already pointed out the problem

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Make enemies stronger? Why? Did you miss the part where we - again, literally - TURN OFF THEIR BASIC FUNCTIONALITY? Superman's strength doesn't matter when you can flip a switch and keep him perpetually brain dead.

this^

 

We like Warframe, it has done almost everything right except for endgame challenge and gameplay balance. The movement mechanics, gunplay, aesthetics, f2p model are nicely implemented and are second to none. We are staying and providing feedback to DE because we see that the game has the potential to be improved to perfection with some tweaks to gameplay balance. It is a shame to see the excellent movement mechanics and gunplay being overshadowed by overpowered abilities, and we wish to see some balancing implemented to fix this. To see what I meant by utilizing Warframe's excellent movement mechanics and gunplay, please see my Volt gameplay after 4:20 mark (where I stopped using Discharge) in the original post.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Checht
typo

[TKDancer]

2 hours ago, Checht said:

We like Warframe, it has done almost everything right except for endgame challenge and gameplay balance.

you clearly dont like warframe as you want it to be completely different becase you personally think ability "spam" is overpowered and bad while the majority clearly disagrees

 

heres the solution:you challenge yourself via ur ow means in solo play, or go play something else

[(XBOX)MerlyBR]

No. just no.

[Meicoomon_Prime]

why don't we have a mode that nerfs you to the ground, then makes this common third person shooter.....really now........ if you want a challenge. just nerf yourself by putting no mods on. then health and shield mods. challenge is fun, but power fantasy is good for most people of this game.  its fun part of the game is power fantasy. but i can understand the point of "its too easy". warframe is type of game you MAKE. want to be nerf, put no warframe mods. we don't need another destiny 2. because destiny 2 is the game of full balance and nerfs. it killed the game. we want power and challenge. why don't we get bonus for not using some mods to make it harder. have another mode that makes it so all mods that booast your warframe powers is not allowed. no really. like nightmare mode with this effect. ending up in challenge. warframe is one of games you make. mods is how you make the game yours and no another game is like that. want power, add the right mods, want to be fast, add the right mods, i think you get you point. the game is good as it is. its just how you make of it that matters. you make the game yours. 

[TKDancer]

41 minutes ago, Sunrisefire said:

why don't we have a mode that nerfs you to the ground

dragon keys

[Meicoomon_Prime]

2 hours ago, TKDancer said:

dragon keys

forgot about those. now lets tell anyone that wants nerfs to use those XD

[Sasuda]

Personally I think they simply need to add enemies and new areas that are higher level. New content ups player power which is always fun and exciting. But no new higher level content gets added. When it does it's very rare and far behind the levels of power expansion. Keep in mind I'm saying older and current content should remain roughly the same. Just the high end gets pushed higher.
This also hasn't been the trend. New enemies are often placed on old maps at low levels, and new maps have been generally, at strongest, matched the levels of what's already existed.
Low level enemies have been made weaker due to highly powerful mods, and frames being put in low level missions as well. Also causing players to farm with low level players.

The more I think the longer the list of explanations of cause and effect goes on, all pointing to a similar case. In any case adding content more linearly powerwise will help a number of issues Warframe has. The MR re-ranking in the weapons pass has helped to that end as well. Warframe may not have been able to do this earlier on but now that there's the library of weapons, mods, frames, enemies, etc. I think it would be good there's a lot of nuances to go over but it's all pretty straightforward once your asking yourself the questions.

[Checht]

4 hours ago, Sunrisefire said:

why don't we have a mode that nerfs you to the ground, then makes this common third person shooter

Ironically, it is the large AoE, hard stun CC skills that makes it possible for players to just stick to the ground. When enemies are stuck being brain dead stationary targets, you can just stay on ground and play like a COD shooter. Look at my Ash and Excalibur gameplay and compare it to Volt's. How long did my Volt stay on ground after I stopped using Discharge? Without hard CC, it is necessary to utilize Warframe's movement mechanics to dodge bullets and minimize damage taken.

What I am advocating for is a nerf in terms of gameplay mechanics, not stat nerf. The difference is that I am for gameplay mechanic nerfs that lead to needing higher action per minute (APM) to do well, instead of just press [insert number] to win.

[Haeen]

13 hours ago, Checht said:

Horde shooter doesn't mean that the enemies should be reduced to stationary targets who are not even attacking you. With constant CC spam or invis, they are just sitting ducks.

It does. When you have more than 20 enemies coming at you on the map, there is a need to have AOE abilities to help pick off targets. Particularly in a game where enemies scale infinitely.

13 hours ago, Checht said:

Any smarter enemy AI is pointless if they can just be reduced to sitting ducks with hard CC or invisibility.

That applies to any game including those where human players are the enemy.  Remove CC/invisibility because it makes the game easier?

That is the point of abilities, to introduce ways of enhancing your gameplay and increasing strategy.

 

13 hours ago, Checht said:

See updated original post, Volt's gameplay to see that he is still viable at Sortie 3 even after I stopped using Discharge. Notice that I need to utilize more on his first to third abilities and Warframe movement mechanics much more from that point onward, making the gameplay more interesting. A cooldown timer on Discharge wouldn't make him not viable. If you think an ability is "useful" only when it reduces enemies to stationary targets who aren't even attacking you, i.e. sitting ducks, I don't think we can even find a common ground to start with.

The main reason any warframe is usable past sortie 3 can be done through the usage of weapons alone along with movement usage.  Again, your nerfs are literally pointless and if you want cooldowns on ultiamte abilities, play destiny 2.

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Checht said:

Without hard CC, it is necessary to utilize Warframe's movement mechanics to dodge bullets and minimize damage taken.

 

15 hours ago, Checht said:

Solo play naturally has lower spawn rate. To do a control test, I have to do it solo. If I were to do the test with a squad, you'd just say I'm having an easy time because of my teammates.

Okay, a couple of issues that I've found with your testing:

One, as others have pointed out, your spawn rate is pathetically low. This is not a viable testing method, and creates complications for both the Ash and Excalibur tests. Try grabbing a Limbo squad.

Two, you've essentially discredited your entire argument of reducing everything to stationary targets by spamming Volt's 1.

Three, no, you are NOT fully utilizing "movement mechanics", you've been spamming Volt's shield this whole time. You nearly died at 5:14, then quickly backed into a corner, placed down a shield, and just stood there to recharge, then you nearly died AGAIN at 8:25, where your sentinel saved you, then a THIRD time where you need to revive the target at 11:14-15, where QT saved you and your sentinel recharged your shield again, at which point you promptly put down another electric shield, and then a final time at about 21:12 where, you've guessed it, dropped another shield. How convenient. The main constituent for your damage reduction is the shield, not your superior dodging skills. If anything, you were charging everything head on while pressing one to pin everything down. Look, I'm not a very skilled player myself, but don't you recognize your hypocrisy at this point?

Four, you've been playing on the Orokin Defense map tileset, which means there are loads of cover for you to utilize. That is not the same on other tilesets. You've been jumping around two separate levels for several minutes, occasionally doing unnecessary backflips and stuff, then resort to shield-rushing everything else.

And last but definitely not least, I guess you were using Zenurik + efficiency mods, which is another thing that you've criticized, because you seem to have absolutely no energy issues. I suppose that's why you occasionally pop in Operator mode, probably just to get the Zenurik passive buff.

In conclusion, your tests should not be a benchmark on the performance of these warframes, or of other warframes in general.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Guest

[BlackCoMerc]

8 hours ago, Checht said:

Ironically, it is the large AoE, hard stun CC skills that makes it possible for players to just stick to the ground. When enemies are stuck being brain dead stationary targets, you can just stay on ground and play like a COD shooter. Look at my Ash and Excalibur gameplay and compare it to Volt's. How long did my Volt stay on ground after I stopped using Discharge? Without hard CC, it is necessary to utilize Warframe's movement mechanics to dodge bullets and minimize damage taken.

What I am advocating for is a nerf in terms of gameplay mechanics, not stat nerf. The difference is that I am for gameplay mechanic nerfs that lead to needing higher action per minute (APM) to do well, instead of just press [insert number] to win.

I dont give it another two years. One, if Bioware's Anthem actually delivers the game play this game SHOULD offer. 

Back in 2013, a forum poster predicted two things about Warframe:

1. Endless modes would replace "content" leading DE to simply sell power creep instead of creating new stuff to do, since "staying longer" would be seen as the same as new content to the more gullible portions of the fan base. This proved correct.

2. Enemies would soon make the game nigh unplayable at high and even mid levels, UNLESS you chose a frame that could either ignore damage (Mesa or Rhino) or CC enemies into brainless irrelevance. Players who choose to cheese would cake walk the content all the up to the very end. Players who chose NOT to do this, would be punished with utter, frustration inducing tedium for not choosing to simply cheese the game. Sadly, this, too, proved correct.

Well, here is mine: I dont give it another year, before trying to actually interact with enemies, is so tedious and unfun that the game requires Cheese-levels of CONSTANT CC not to have fun, but in order to simply not be frustrated by tedium. Enemy design is more and more steering toward knee jerk reactions to constant power cheesing, or the godawful, lackluster Operator game play. Another year of this and frames that cannot CC near constantly either will not exist, as reworks will be NECESSARY in order to add CC so the frames that lack it actually see use and sales (See, Nyx/Nyx Prime, and the Chaos Recast that made her god on PoE)...or the frames that still lack hard, constant, repeatable CC will simply never see use as playing with them is too tedious and frustrating, due to enemies designed around the Constant Cheese Meta. 

[Bratty_Child]

This so called cheese is so much better than ducking behind cover, taking aim, clear some enemies, then move to another cover. Though some people did that, partially, camping a room.

[DarkGuard01]

It seems to me you dislike fundamental aspects of the game so much that you're better served looking for another game than imposing your perception of "balance" on other people. (@Checht, BlackCoMerc)

Edited March 26, 2018 by DarkGuard01

[Femuru]

11 hours ago, Checht said:

Ironically, it is the large AoE, hard stun CC skills that makes it possible for players to just stick to the ground. When enemies are stuck being brain dead stationary targets, you can just stay on ground and play like a COD shooter. Look at my Ash and Excalibur gameplay and compare it to Volt's. How long did my Volt stay on ground after I stopped using Discharge? Without hard CC, it is necessary to utilize Warframe's movement mechanics to dodge bullets and minimize damage taken.

What I am advocating for is a nerf in terms of gameplay mechanics, not stat nerf. The difference is that I am for gameplay mechanic nerfs that lead to needing higher action per minute (APM) to do well, instead of just press [insert number] to win.

why not make a post about making enemies have smarter path movement, ask to make them slide far to cover,  run faster, new enemies types, or even a way to upgrade basic units abilities cuz thats wat it sound like wat yur asking for because the main reason warframes are gonna be op is because they send hundred of them brain dead enemies so we wipe them out if its mechanic wise best ask for smarter enemies instead asking to change everyone warframe cuz well the name of the post dont help and itll trigger over half the community (not attacking u just making the statement) also if u dont want the press a single button clear map de been slowly getting rid of that 1 by 1 it takes alot of time to rework a single frame like several months plus idk bout u but im pretty sure most warframes are gonna die easily if u stay still at all once u do lvl 150 enemies endurance runs 

[TKDancer]

12 hours ago, Checht said:

Ironically, it is the large AoE, hard stun CC skills that makes it possible for players to just stick to the ground. When enemies are stuck being brain dead stationary targets, you can just stay on ground and play like a COD shooter. Look at my Ash and Excalibur gameplay and compare it to Volt's. How long did my Volt stay on ground after I stopped using Discharge? Without hard CC, it is necessary to utilize Warframe's movement mechanics to dodge bullets and minimize damage taken.

What I am advocating for is a nerf in terms of gameplay mechanics, not stat nerf. The difference is that I am for gameplay mechanic nerfs that lead to needing higher action per minute (APM) to do well, instead of just press [insert number] to win.

when enemies kill non tank frames in a couple stray shots, thats why we need hard CC, this is part of the game

 

if u dont like it hard stun go play a frame without it

[Checht]

5 hours ago, Duodenial said:

One, as others have pointed out, your spawn rate is pathetically low. This is not a viable testing method, and creates complications for both the Ash and Excalibur tests. Try grabbing a Limbo squad.

Solo play has lower spawn rate, nothing I could do about that. I am already using the current "endgame" of Warframe as a benchmark, which is Sortie 3. If you want to talk about endless run, sure, there is obviously a limit for any frames up to a point where any single stray bullet can oneshot you.

5 hours ago, Duodenial said:

Two, you've essentially discredited your entire argument of reducing everything to stationary targets by spamming Volt's 1.

Volt's 1 is a mini-stun of 1 s that can chain up to a maximum of 5 enemies (how is 5 enemies "everything"?) and can be treated like another gun with 100% electricity proc. To stun "everything", I'd need to spam Volt's 1 at different directions. By the time I cast my second Shock, the first shocked enemies would have recovered. Repeatedly using 1 does not turn the gameplay to my Excalibur's gameplay, does it? My point is not banishing CC entirely, but make players have to use hard CC (hard CC meaning large AoE, long duration stun) sparingly.

5 hours ago, Duodenial said:

Three, no, you are NOT fully utilizing "movement mechanics", you've been spamming Volt's shield this whole time. You nearly died at 5:14, then quickly backed into a corner, placed down a shield, and just stood there to recharge, then you nearly died AGAIN at 8:25, where your sentinel saved you, then a THIRD time where you need to revive the target at 11:14-15, where QT saved you and your sentinel recharged your shield again, at which point you promptly put down another electric shield, and then a final time at about 21:12 where, you've guessed it, dropped another shield. How convenient. The main constituent for your damage reduction is the shield, not your superior dodging skills. If anything, you were charging everything head on while pressing one to pin everything down. Look, I'm not a very skilled player myself, but don't you recognize your hypocrisy at this point?

Yes, Volt's shield is a very useful skill. Now you see that a skill does not have to be hard CC or invisibility to be useful, right? Static shield can neutralize ranged units at a maximum of 180 degrees, current shield at an even smaller angle, but they are very useful as long as you are aware of enemy locations. It does not neutralize everything around you, which is why I like it. I'll admit that having Volt's shield is a poor way to demonstrate that you need to minimize damage by dodging bullets. I could do a quick demonstration in Simulacrum regarding the time to die when you're just staying on ground shooting vs moving around erratically while shooting, but I thought this is already common knowledge. Regarding the times that I almost died and had to respond to the situations accordingly, that's what makes gameplay interesting, doesn't it? It certainly at least makes it more fun to watch compared to my Ash's or Excalibur's gameplay. Also, the point of my Volt's gameplay is not to show how skilled I am, it's just to prove a point that Volt can make-do with a cooldown timer on Discharge, with the current "endgame" as the benchmark.

5 hours ago, Duodenial said:

Four, you've been playing on the Orokin Defense map tileset, which means there are loads of cover for you to utilize. That is not the same on other tilesets. You've been jumping around two separate levels for several minutes, occasionally doing unnecessary backflips and stuff, then resort to shield-rushing everything else.

Well, when I was using Ash or Excalibur, I did not even need to utilize the covers, did I? Having no hard CC makes it rewarding to utilize the environment to your advantage (jumping around 2 separate levels etc.). Or are you saying Volt wouldn't be viable at "endgame" at other tilesets? Suggest one and I can try it out for you.

 

5 hours ago, Duodenial said:

And last but definitely not least, I guess you were using Zenurik + efficiency mods, which is another thing that you've criticized, because you seem to have absolutely no energy issues. I suppose that's why you occasionally pop in Operator mode, probably just to get the Zenurik passive buff.

I only have streamline as efficiency mod, and I have Zenurik. I did not criticize the energy economy. I suggested adding cooldown timer for certain skills rather than nerfing the energy economy precisely for this point. Nerfing the energy economy will just lead to players saving up energy for the hard CC skills, the other non-overpowered skills will still be under utilized.

 

59 minutes ago, ShenRyujin said:

why not make a post about making enemies have smarter path movement, ask to make them slide far to cover,  run faster, new enemies types, or even a way to upgrade basic units abilities cuz thats wat it sound like wat yur asking for

Unless we make these new enemies immune to CC or able to see invisible players, it wouldn't really matter. What happens to these enemies when they're hit by radial blind, or aren't even able to see you since you're invisible? They just become sitting ducks again.

3 hours ago, DarkGuard01 said:

It seems to me you dislike fundamental aspects of the game so much that you're better served looking for another game than imposing your perception of "balance" on other people. (@Checht, BlackCoMerc)

Well, I'd be disappointed if DE sees "fundamental aspects" being hard CC-ed enemies where players can just casually pick-off without the need for complex movements. If I'm not mistaken, Warframe was inspired by Unreal Tournament, which DE worked on. I see the "fundamental aspects" of Warframe to be akin to an Unreal type shooter. Warframe started as such when the energy economy was poor, but evolved to what it is today with a large spike in energy regen.

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Checht
Forgot to address a fellow Tenno's point ;)

[Femuru]

11 minutes ago, Checht said:

Unless we make these new enemies immune to CC or able to see invisible players, it wouldn't really matter. What happens to these enemies when they're hit by radial blind, or aren't even able to see you since you're invisible? They just become sitting ducks again.

well nullifyers are a thing but then make a post where u want a new unit can can detect invisibility, ask for a new heavy shield unit that blocks cc/dmg, or ask again smarter enemies where they dont only run blindly to u cuz im being completely real with u if someone say they want all warframes nerfed or changed half the community will go into rage or straight out quit if it happens and ppl do quit because of ridiculous changes/nerfs (and thats wit single frames and weapon nerfs imagine if all got that which actually would take several years cuz de change frames once in a blue moon) so steps like these gotta be carefully put out im trying to give alternative ideas that wont make the game crumble like destiny

Edited March 26, 2018 by ShenRyujin

[TKDancer]

16 minutes ago, Checht said:

Well, I'd be disappointed if DE sees "fundamental aspects" being hard CC-ed enemies where players can just casually pick-off without the need for complex movements. If I'm not mistaken, Warframe was inspired by Unreal Tournament, which DE worked on

clearly you havent been paying attention to how the game has been changed over the years

 

and clearly "inspired" doesnt mean "a replica of" considering unreal tournament is mainly PvP in small arenas or PvE vs bots in the same arenas, whereas warframe is a horde game

[Checht]

54 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

1 hour ago, Checht said:

Well, I'd be disappointed if DE sees "fundamental aspects" being hard CC-ed enemies where players can just casually pick-off without the need for complex movements. If I'm not mistaken, Warframe was inspired by Unreal Tournament, which DE worked on

clearly you havent been paying attention to how the game has been changed over the years

 

1 hour ago, Checht said:

Warframe started as such when the energy economy was poor, but evolved to what it is today with a large spike in energy regen.

How convenient it is to cut out my last sentence in your quote.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Checht