If You Cant Play The Video Game Dont Blame The Video Game. An Arid Discussion.

[Mak_Gohae]

As some have said, I think the issue lies in the fact that these events have a limited number of points for the whole playerbase, and players can get more points than the rewards require them to, which means people who would have played the event were always going to be left out.

 

 

These are supposed to be coop events, not competitions; everyone should be able to have a slice of the cake.

 

Here's the thing, i just mentioned this in another thread, during Phase One when the rewards was the new zone and whatever came with the zone a group of folks didnt care and were leaving it to the folks that wanted to put in some work to get this area. When Phase One was almost done and additional rewards were introduced the people who were doing the heavy lifting all of a sudden become villains because they ate up all the points.....

 

This is the reason why most of these complains really mean nothing. Basically, unless it perfectly fits your (general you) scenario no matter how obtuse it is...... DE did something wrong, they messed up, etc, etc.

[Operator_Error]

Here's the thing, i just mentioned this in another thread, during Phase One when the rewards was the new zone and whatever came with the zone a group of folks didnt care and were leaving it to the folks that wanted to put in some work to get this area. When Phase One was almost done and additional rewards were introduced the people who were doing the heavy lifting all of a sudden become villains because they ate up all the points.....

 

This is the reason why most of these complains really mean nothing. Basically, unless it perfectly fits your (general you) scenario no matter how obtuse it is...... DE did something wrong, they messed up, etc, etc.

 

The fact remains that the "glory Wh*res" and "leaderboard wh*res" still skewed the event completion in such a way that less fanatic players have no been screwed out of their ability to take advantage of the MISSION-REQUIRED COMPONENTS that they farmed.

 

I've said it elsewhere: The Lotus has said that we got enough Scouts to reveal the previously undiscovered Grinner settlements, but are we sure that we caught all the Scouts before they could run to the Grinner screaming "The Tenno are coming! The Tenno are coming!"

 

Why not allow those with keys remaining the time to use them, complete with a perfectly plausible reason to do so, since the failure condition wasn't supposed to trigger for about 3 more days, at the point at which the event was terminated/suspended?

Edited August 13, 2013 by Operator_Error

[Rivy]

Here's the thing, i just mentioned this in another thread, during Phase One when the rewards was the new zone and whatever came with the zone a group of folks didnt care and were leaving it to the folks that wanted to put in some work to get this area. When Phase One was almost done and additional rewards were introduced the people who were doing the heavy lifting all of a sudden become villains because they ate up all the points.....

 

This is the reason why most of these complains really mean nothing. Basically, unless it perfectly fits your (general you) scenario no matter how obtuse it is...... DE did something wrong, they messed up, etc, etc.

That's obtuse as well, you are saying "unless you agree the event was handled perfectly you are wrong".

 

The event should not be competitive. I'm not saying anyone's a villain, but the system was built in a way that people were going to be left out even if the rewards had been announced last Thursday.

[Mak_Gohae]

That's obtuse as well, you are saying "unless you agree the event was handled perfectly you are wrong".

 

The event should not be competitive. I'm not saying anyone's a villain, but the system was built in a way that people were going to be left out even if the rewards had been announced last Thursday.

 

I'm not saying anything about how the event was handled. I am just saying that people that didnt care for the event are complaining over their own decisions. And not only that but they they are attacking the people they were going to let do all the heavy lifting.

 

Basically all the complains have NOTHING to do with the handling of the event, these complains are all choices that people made being pushed on DE like DE is supposed to feed you and chew the food for you too.

 

There are some valid complains out there but the overwhelming wave here are people who put as little time as possible all of a sudden going,"oh crap." Hell, some one in one of these threads just posted that he started this on Sunday and got his 100 points the same day. Really..... the chances were there.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[CY13ERPUNK]

I completely agree with you. People whining about these events remind me of people making a lane in the bank and complaining because it's taking too long. You can just, not do it, you know? It's your life. You make the choices. You can't just expect the choices you have to be changed for your best just because... Because... What was your reason again? You had to do something else?

Yeah, exactly.

bingo

sidenote though, DE was not very clear, so there is that, but whatevs

[Rivy]

I'm not saying anything about how the event was handled. I am just saying that people that didnt care for the event are complaining over their decisions. And not only that but they they are attacking the people they were going to let do all the heavy lifting.

 

Basically all the complains have NOTHING to do with the handling of the event, these complains are all choices that people made being pushed on DE like DE is supposed to feed you and chew the food for you too.

 

There are some valid complains out there but the overwhelming wave here are people who put as little time as possible all of a sudden going,"oh crap." Hell, some one in one of these threads just posted that he started this on Sunday and got his 100 points the same day. Really..... the chances were there.

Saying that some players took other people's chance to participate doesn't inherently mean everyone blames those players (I know some do, but those are just clan haters, what are you gonna do...). It's a fact that by participating you took someone else's points. That's not "my own decision"; that's what I feel was wrong (the only thing, IMO). 

Let's say everyone had chosen to get online on Sunday (like that player you mention) and tried to get to 100 at the same time: none of them would have gotten there because there were not enough points to go around. That's hardly their choice.

So I blame the game, not the players (nobody should, actually), that's why that kind of thing needs to be posted, because we hope that DE will learn from this events.

 

I agree many are making irrelevant or entitled complaints, but that's not true for everyone who disagrees with how DE did things, so saying that "if the event didn't perfectly fit your scenario you should shut up" and "you should have gotten to 100 points, if you didn't it's all your fault" isn't particularly valid.

[Operator_Error]

I'm not saying anything about how the event was handled. I am just saying that people that didnt care for the event are complaining over their decisions. And not only that but they they are attacking the people they were going to let do all the heavy lifting.

 

Basically all the complains have NOTHING to do with the handling of the event, these complains are all choices that people made being pushed on DE like DE is supposed to feed you and chew the food for you too.

 

There are some valid complains out there but the overwhelming wave here are people who put as little time as possible all of a sudden going,"oh crap." Hell, some one in one of these threads just posted that he started this on Sunday and got his 100 points the same day. Really..... the chances were there.

 

People may have decided to participate less than fully, and that IS a decision that they made.

 

Let me flog an example I've given elsewhere, with additional data.

 

The top 2 players on the leaderboard had 2,769 and 2,000 points, respectively, in this event, out of "X points" required to trigger the victory conditions, and the top 16 players all had 1,300+ points each, which is somewhere between 13 and 26 times the amount required for ANY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL to be rewarded with all 3 mods for this event.

 

I even went and added up the point totals of the top 16 players earned, and I came up with 24,853 points, which is a clear indication that those players worked VERY hard, and invested a lot of time, and I applaud them for the ability to do so. That said, everything after they had enough points to receive their complete participation reward should have been simply "leaderboard c*ck-waving", because the extra 23,253 points over and above the amount required to gain a 3 mods meant that the event finished THAT MANY POINTS SOONER and prevented about 230 other players from receiving the full participation rewards.

 

Now, consider that I only added up the top 16 players, and I'm not certain how to check (nor do I have the math skills to check) what all the other players had and then ask yourself how many other players DIDN'T get the time that would have legitimately been available to them, if everything after that 100 "event points" had simply been "leaderboard fluff", for those that care about their rankings?

[KF_Kenobi]

I agree many are making irrelevant or entitled complaints, but that's not true for everyone who disagrees with how DE did things, so saying that "if the event didn't perfectly fit your scenario you should shut up" and "you should have gotten to 100 points, if you didn't it's all your fault" isn't particularly valid.

 

At this point DE has officially acknowledged that people quite sensibly thought there was a 6 day timeline. So at this point it's only an entitled complaint in the strictest sense to insist DE honor those expectations.(Entitled - proper grounds for seeking or claiming something). This is actual real, genuine entitlement here. We feel legitimately entitled to another few days to work on Lethal Torrent.

 

The idea that DE is just going to say "We screwed up" and move on, adds an extra layer of unacceptable to a situation that's already wrong.

[Chaosyn]

The fact remains that the "glory Wh*res" and "leaderboard wh*res" still skewed the event completion in such a way that less fanatic players have no been screwed out of their ability to take advantage of the MISSION-REQUIRED COMPONENTS that they farmed.

 

I've said it elsewhere: The Lotus has said that we got enough Scouts to reveal the previously undiscovered Grinner settlements, but are we sure that we caught all the Scouts before they could run to the Grinner screaming "The Tenno are coming! The Tenno are coming!" Lotus didn't

 

Why not allow those with keys remaining the time to use them, complete with a perfectly plausible reason to do so, since the failure condition wasn't supposed to trigger for about 3 more days, at the point at which the event was terminated/suspended?

1)the glory/leaderboard people didn't skew anything....the people that messed this event up are the people who only participated once mods became involved..

2)Lotus only needed enough scouts to get the info she needed...she didn't need them exterminated.....they already knew we were coming,just a matter of how soon we'd get there.

3) We got all the relevant info,why would we continue building a map to a place we already HAVE a map to?

Oh,and ALL games are competetive....whether it's intended or not.....that's why people do speed runs in single player games,or try for 100% completion.... Games are competetive by nature,as are a lot of gamers....

Edited August 13, 2013 by Chaosyn

[Patzer]

 

 

This was a community event in which the community had to work together towards the goal. That didn't happen. Here's what actually happened:

 

1.) All the big clans went in, wanting to act like Operation Heroes, and finished the Operation, taking away the chances of the community to get points.

2.) See #1

 

Honestly, it's the same deal with Defense Heroes. You've all heard of them, right? Those guys that don't stay at the cryopod/reactor and rush out to spawn camp, stealing all the EXP?

 

Except instead of rushing out and stealing, not only the EXP, but you're taking away the chances for other players to work to their reward.

 

 

I PUGged 100 points in 3 hours via recruitment channel so thank you for your insight.

[Patzer]

I'd personally like to see a paradigm shift from "the bar is 100%, mission complete" to "the bar is 100%, we've got the upper hand now and are just mopping up." Would allow other players to participate in the mop up crew without having the avid players soaking up the points that would net 10 or 20 players all-tier rewards.

 

Basically good idea except then same people would whine when "mopping up" phase ended and they didn't have time and had life etc etc etc.

 

Make event run for a month then these people come and say yeah, I got my 100 points two weeks ago, this is just getting ridiculous, stop the event already.

 

See the pattern here? DE just can't win.

[EetNotErn]

I don't know why some of you are blaming the "top clans" and displaying such animosity towards them. It wasn't their fault. It's the way the event was set up that is at fault. It's sheer idiocy to get angry at everyone who got tons of points.

[Weeb]

Aaaand there are some of us who missed it due to launcher issues.

Edited August 13, 2013 by MonstercatHD

[neKroMancer]

I saw that the event did have two conditions to end from the start since the announcement.

1. We finish three phase within 6 days.

2. 6 days passed and we didn't finish the event. 

 

Many players use the fact that the hot balloon operation wasn't ended at the 100% completion to support but forget that Sling-Stone did end before the announced time by 12 hours. Well, are they wrong?

 

Imo, both parties, DE and the playerbase, were wrong.

 

DE were wrong because of they didn't make it clear that the event had two conditions which it could ended.

Players were also wrong because they use only fact that support their idea without looking thoroughly at Sling-Stone. 

 

However, I think DE weren't wrong for announcing the personal reward in phase 2 instead of phase 1. The opinions on the forum were pretty clear that many players didn't feel motivated to participate in the event without personal reward.

 

Another thing that DE was wrong : The event ended too fast for 6 days event. Sling-Stone was ended 12 hours early and that was 3 days event. Arid Fear should be longer than that and span at least 4.5-5 days.

[Phoenix86]

Agree with OP, overall ppl already had this experience in the Fomorian event?

Dont you learn anything from history?

 

"Up to 6 days to complete" doesnt mean "It will last 6 days regardless"

 

100 points were easly earned in 3-4 hrs max, ppl who stopped at 96-99 points should only blame/facepalm themselves, and IF (IF ONLY) you had to left because of serious real life business you should not complain about the event since the stuff you did was way more important.

 

edit: on a last note, ppl QQ'ing are not QQ'ing because they wanted to play the event, they are doing it because they missed the rewards and this thing alone shows how much you really cared about the event itself.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Phoenix86

[Operator_Error]

1)the glory/leaderboard people didn't skew anything....the people that messed this event up are the people who only participated once mods became involved..

2)Lotus only needed enough scouts to get the info she needed...she didn't need them exterminated.....they already knew we were coming,just a matter of how soon we'd get there.

3) We got all the relevant info,why would we continue building a map to a place we already HAVE a map to?

Oh,and ALL games are competetive....whether it's intended or not.....that's why people do speed runs in single player games,or try for 100% completion.... Games are competetive by nature,as are a lot of gamers....

 

I'm sorry, but MATH.

 

If the top 16 players got approximately an EXTRA 23,000 points, and successful event completion was determined by total points accrued by players, and all points accrued counted towards the victory conditions, the extra roughly 23,000 points meant that the event gypped about 230 players out of the time to accrue the 100 points that would have entitled them to a complete set of participation rewards.

 

The number I'm giving you doesn't even account for the total number of points beyond the threshold of 100 required to be completely rewarded that players outside the top 16 accumulated, so it's fairly obvious that a LOT of players could potentially have also been rewarded for their participation.

 

Sure, we can applaud all those players that went above and beyond, but everything beyond that 100 point threshold should have JUST been for the purposes of swinging e-peens, and pointing at the leaderboards, and nothing else, unless DE felt that the player-base needed a nudge to alert them that they weren't moving quickly enough to ensure a victory condition.

[Operator_Error]

To everyone who thought that you'll have time to do the event and figured you could get away with stockpiling keys for a later date go F*** yourself

 

Some people have jobs, bills to pay, family and friends to see, and DE has already admitted that they feel they could have done better with respect to their handling of the communication for the event.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/94239-operation-arid-fear-completed/page-13#entry1058832

[Chaosyn]

 

I'm sorry, but MATH.

 

If the top 16 players got approximately an EXTRA 23,000 points, and successful event completion was determined by total points accrued by players, and all points accrued counted towards the victory conditions, the extra roughly 23,000 points meant that the event gypped about 230 players out of the time to accrue the 100 points that would have entitled them to a complete set of participation rewards.

 

The number I'm giving you doesn't even account for the total number of points beyond the threshold of 100 required to be completely rewarded that players outside the top 16 accumulated, so it's fairly obvious that a LOT of players could potentially have also been rewarded for their participation.

 

Sure, we can applaud all those players that went above and beyond, but everything beyond that 100 point threshold should have JUST been for the purposes of swinging e-peens, and pointing at the leaderboards, and nothing else, unless DE felt that the player-base needed a nudge to alert them that they weren't moving quickly enough to ensure a victory condition.

I said it before, I'll say it again....The Leaderboard people didn't mess up the event. It was going just fine. When people saw they could get mods from it? THAT is when the meter jumped up like a thermostat in Death Valley. ONLY THEN. Had the greedy people NOT shown up? We'd be on phase 3 still,right now...

[Exit.]

Some people have jobs, bills to pay, family and friends to see, and DE has already admitted that they feel they could have done better with respect to their handling of the communication for the event.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/94239-operation-arid-fear-completed/page-13#entry1058832

pretty sure that was to stop butthurt 8 year olds from crying.

[Azure_Kytia]

Basically good idea except then same people would whine when "mopping up" phase ended and they didn't have time and had life etc etc etc.

 

Make event run for a month then these people come and say yeah, I got my 100 points two weeks ago, this is just getting ridiculous, stop the event already.

 

See the pattern here? DE just can't win.

 

In all circumstances there are going to be people that missed out, I agree. But by making sure the event is accessible until the termination date, the effects would be dramatically lessened. We wouldn't see any posts about people missing out because the event ended "early", for example.

[Operator_Error]

I said it before, I'll say it again....The Leaderboard people didn't mess up the event. It was going just fine. When people saw they could get mods from it? THAT is when the meter jumped up like a thermostat in Death Valley. ONLY THEN. Had the greedy people NOT shown up? We'd be on phase 3 still,right now...

 

Still doesn't mean that DE couldn't have given the player-base the remainder of the timer to burn up the keys they'd already farmed up.

 

pretty sure that was to stop butthurt 8 year olds from crying.

 

Or maybe DE was acknowledging that some noticeable and reasonable number of their player-base was frustrated by the implementation and communication throughout this event?

 

There's also a good chance that most 8-year-olds:

 

1) don't know what "butthurt" means

2) aren't playing WarFrame

3) shouldn't be on a game forum in the wee hours of the night, unsupervised

 

But clearly, you've somehow got online anyways.

[Mak_Gohae]

Saying that some players took other people's chance to participate doesn't inherently mean everyone blames those players (I know some do, but those are just clan haters, what are you gonna do...). It's a fact that by participating you took someone else's points. That's not "my own decision"; that's what I feel was wrong (the only thing, IMO). 

Let's say everyone had chosen to get online on Sunday (like that player you mention) and tried to get to 100 at the same time: none of them would have gotten there because there were not enough points to go around. That's hardly their choice.

So I blame the game, not the players (nobody should, actually), that's why that kind of thing needs to be posted, because we hope that DE will learn from this events.

 

I agree many are making irrelevant or entitled complaints, but that's not true for everyone who disagrees with how DE did things, so saying that "if the event didn't perfectly fit your scenario you should shut up" and "you should have gotten to 100 points, if you didn't it's all your fault" isn't particularly valid.

 

 

People may have decided to participate less than fully, and that IS a decision that they made.

 

Let me flog an example I've given elsewhere, with additional data.

 

The top 2 players on the leaderboard had 2,769 and 2,000 points, respectively, in this event, out of "X points" required to trigger the victory conditions, and the top 16 players all had 1,300+ points each, which is somewhere between 13 and 26 times the amount required for ANY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL to be rewarded with all 3 mods for this event.

 

I even went and added up the point totals of the top 16 players earned, and I came up with 24,853 points, which is a clear indication that those players worked VERY hard, and invested a lot of time, and I applaud them for the ability to do so. That said, everything after they had enough points to receive their complete participation reward should have been simply "leaderboard c*ck-waving", because the extra 23,253 points over and above the amount required to gain a 3 mods meant that the event finished THAT MANY POINTS SOONER and prevented about 230 other players from receiving the full participation rewards.

 

Now, consider that I only added up the top 16 players, and I'm not certain how to check (nor do I have the math skills to check) what all the other players had and then ask yourself how many other players DIDN'T get the time that would have legitimately been available to them, if everything after that 100 "event points" had simply been "leaderboard fluff", for those that care about their rankings?

 

We dont know how many points where there to take, right?

So, if we dont know, we cant tell how many actual points were taken from some one else.

The only thing the idea that you both bring up can actually say is that anyone that went over a 100 took from some one else.

Which at that point......... there might as well not be an event.

If we are just trying enough to get our points then wait for other people to pop in to get their points there is no reason for a progression bar. At this point this is just a handout line.

 

 

At this point DE has officially acknowledged that people quite sensibly thought there was a 6 day timeline. So at this point it's only an entitled complaint in the strictest sense to insist DE honor those expectations.(Entitled - proper grounds for seeking or claiming something). This is actual real, genuine entitlement here. We feel legitimately entitled to another few days to work on Lethal Torrent.

 

The idea that DE is just going to say "We screwed up" and move on, adds an extra layer of unacceptable to a situation that's already wrong.

 

I dont know how anyone can sensibly think they have 6 days to get this done when the only way to find out about the six days was to see it in game next to the completion bar which should be a tremendously big clue. Or read it from the board, the very same board that had several discussion about the completion rate.  I really dont see how this is possible.

[Exit.]

Still doesn't mean that DE couldn't have given the player-base the remainder of the timer to burn up the keys they'd already farmed up.

 

 

Or maybe DE was acknowledging that some noticeable and reasonable number of their player-base was frustrated by the implementation and communication throughout this event?

 

There's also a good chance that most 8-year-olds:

 

1) don't know what "butthurt" means

2) aren't playing WarFrame

3) shouldn't be on a game forum in the wee hours of the night, unsupervised

 

But clearly, you've somehow got online anyways.

Dude this generation of kids play all sorts of games and their parents don't care.

Don't forget that some of them are in different time zones.

[rangeless]

 

 

This was a community event in which the community had to work together towards the goal. That didn't happen. Here's what actually happened:

 

1.) All the big clans went in, wanting to act like Operation Heroes, and finished the Operation, taking away the chances of the community to get points.

2.) See #1

 

Honestly, it's the same deal with Defense Heroes. You've all heard of them, right? Those guys that don't stay at the cryopod/reactor and rush out to spawn camp, stealing all the EXP?

 

Except instead of rushing out and stealing, not only the EXP, but you're taking away the chances for other players to work to their reward.

 

 

psychosist: 1. DE: 0. Your move, bub.

[Operator_Error]

We dont know how many points where there to take, right?

So, if we dont know, we cant tell how many actual points were taken from some one else.

The only thing the idea that you both bring up can actually say is that anyone that went over a 100 took from some one else.

Which at that point......... there might as well not be an event.

If we are just trying enough to get our points then wait for other people to pop in to get their points there is no reason for a progression bar. At this point this is just a handout line.

 

 

 

I dont know how anyone can sensibly think they have 6 days to get this done when the only way to find out about the six days was to see it in game next to the completion bar which should be a tremendously big clue. Or read it from the board, the very same board that had several discussion about the completion rate.  I really dont see how this is possible.

 

Nothing in-game indicated that the timer was simply a countdown to the "failure trigger", and some people participated from the start, and still think it's relevant to burn the keys they have left over. In fact, I have a grand total of 4 keys, and 55 points, so it's not like I'm really asking for much; at best, that's what, 16 points?

 

Nothing about the completion bar tells me that the event is simply going to terminate, and I don't have the option of checking the forums from my phone while I'm at work, because of safety regulations.

 

Also:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/94239-operation-arid-fear-completed/page-13#entry1058832

 

DE has admitted they'd like to work on the communication and implementation, going forward, which tells me that they've acknowledged that some of their player-base was under- or misinformed about the event.

 

Dude this generation of kids play all sorts of games and their parents don't care.

Don't forget that some of them are in different time zones.

 

Your bad argument? Still bad.