wukong... any use at all?

[jmthebigman]

considering he got hit once again with a synergy nerf...

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Right... But this is by no means unique to Primal Fury. Virtually any melee weapon will knockdown on a ground slam. I don't see how this is something to tote about as if it makes the ability good.

I didn't say you said he was the best at spy.

I also didn't say you said it was better than Iron Skin. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

OP didn't imply he was useless. Are you reading the same posts I am, because you seem to be reading things that don't exist?

No, the only one saying Wukong is actually useless is me. Because he is, from a non subjective standpoint. 

His tanking whilst easier is still only really just as good as a Frame like Rhino's or Nidus's in the realms of ''balanced'' content. Rendering comments bragging about it, fairly ignorant.

Yes, he can tank easily. But other frames with a bit of effort can tank just as well and they do soooooo much more than just tank.

I find your comment regarding Wukong being ''cheap to build'' fairly humourous. Rhino is cheap to build, Wukong requires Nitain.

Sorry I misunderstood the title of your post "wukong any use at all" I actually though you were asking if he had any use, which meant that you were asking if he was not useless my bad, must had read it wrong

[MiraClena]

6 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

His tanking whilst easier is still only really just as good as a Frame like Rhino's or Nidus's in the realms of ''balanced'' content. Rendering comments bragging about it, fairly ignorant.

Personally I don't see how tanking with Wukong is easier for newer player because you need to manage the energy well to even start tanking with Defy.

Sure, it's easy to tank with defy after you get a few mods, but unless you bought all those mod with platinum, your skill level wouldn't care about avoiding death with Wukong/Rhino/Nidus because they are all easy.

[MiraClena]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

What's the issue with primal fury btw? Primal Rage gives it some insane base for the gladiator passive to scale off... 

It's an inferior version of Exalted Blade (which is from a starter frame), and by the time you get Primal Rage you shouldn't have problem staying alive by just using Exalted Blade even in level 100+ content.

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Ah that one.... welp it was only a matter of time 😅

What's the issue with primal fury btw? Primal Rage gives it some insane base for the gladiator passive to scale off...

May just be me but i sure won't complain about maiming strike kinda numbers on normal melee combo strikes...

It sure does, and I love building for that.

The issue primarily is the lack of range, the lack of Rivens, the lack of acolyte mods and the fact that recasting causes you to lose your combo. Each of those factors means that melee weapons themselves will scale far futher.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)El_Senior_Fats said:

Sorry I misunderstood the title of your post "wukong any use at all" I actually though you were asking if he had any use, which meant that you were asking if he was not useless my bad, must had read it wrong

Not my title? I implied very strongly in the very post that you quoted that I am not the OP.

Seriously? What are you reading? 

2 minutes ago, MiraClena said:

Personally I don't see how tanking with Wukong is easier for newer player because you need to manage the energy well to even start tanking with Defy.

Sure, it's easy to tank with defy after you get a few mods, but unless you bought all those mod with platinum, your skill level wouldn't care about avoiding death with Wukong/Rhino/Nidus because they are all easy.

I didn't say it was easier for a new player?

I mean, your post is basically what I've been saying this whole time. Defy is easy, but in the grand scheme of things it's not actually better than the tanking of a frame like Rhino or Nidus, both of whom have a better kit overall.

[MiraClena]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

I didn't say it was easier for a new player?

Sorry I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was adding on to what you said.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, MiraClena said:

Sorry I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was adding on to what you said.

Ohhhhh!

Gotcha, I was gunna say. It's the other guy saying Wukong is easier for a new player, go argue with them. Fair enough though.

But yeah, whilst tanking with Defy there are very specific mods you need that a new player won't have. Rage/Adrenaline being one of them. Flow being another, because lets face it Defy is really not cheap. Maxed Vitality is very helpful (although I no longer use it), and maxing out a mod is not easy for a new player.

Rhino though? Press #2, you're good on the starchart whilst you learn the game.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

It sure does, and I love building for that.

The issue primarily is the lack of range, the lack of Rivens, the lack of acolyte mods and the fact that recasting causes you to lose your combo. Each of those factors means that melee weapons themselves will scale far futher.

True that but that only really applys to the final levels of melee scaling... something around 7-8x combo. Anywhere below that, it is straight up superior to normal melee...

And compared to Valkyrs Hysteria that suffers from reseting by design on similar stats, it's functional at least.

No question that it's about darn time for DE to consider a global combo counter tho...

Edited May 2, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[MiraClena]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

it is straight up superior to normal melee...

Not when you compare it to meme strike.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb MiraClena:

Not when you compare it to meme strike.

Even then... primal fury pushes its crit chance to something around 70-80% ... substract the lower crit boost per rank, consider the higher combo gain and much bigger basedamage and you get pretty similar results from its raw numbers in the same period of time... on a overall much higher attack rate.

Primal fury sure isn't some map covering whip but there's nothing to complain about when it's about raw numbers.

Edited May 2, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[MiraClena]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

when it's about raw numbers

But it isn't slash damage.

 

Also, honestly raw number isn't really the issue here. The problem is that it's much easier to get high damage through other warframe with similar survivability.

Edited May 2, 2018 by MiraClena

[DeMonkey]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

True that but that only really applys to the final levels of melee scaling... something around 7-8x combo. Anywhere below that, it is straight up superior to normal melee...

Not really, I mean it can't use Blood Rush. 

The maximum viable Gladiator bonus you can get with Wukong is +60% through using 4 arguably sub par mods (The quick thinking one breaks Defy, and the combo duration one doesn't actually add to the combo), whilst a melee weapon can achieve +165% with a single mod.

Melee weapons can also have well over double the range of Primal Fury, allowing you to hit enemies before you've even seen them in some situations. Primal Fury however is mostly comprised of short range attacks, even when it's range is extended. For example the slams it does, even if your staff is at it's max 6m length or whatever, a slam only hits enemies about a metre in front of you. The added range on melee weapons also goes a long way towards building and keeping the combo metre up.

Melee weapons can also use Maiming Strike, which can be coupled with Blood Rush for simply ridiculous crit values.

Melee weapons will generally have IPS, Primal Fury only has IP and is heavily weighted in favour of Impact. This means that Melee weapons are arguably more viable for Condition Overload builds, which is especially true when using Weeping Wounds, which Primal Fury cannot.

Quite a lot of melee weapons have higher block values than Primal Fury.

Some melee weapons have momentum and stop you getting knocked down whilst attacking, whilst I recall this feature being present on Primal Fury I believe it's only during certain attacks, making it kinda hit and miss.

I could go on 

I like Primal Fury, I really do. It's actually my most used weapon in the game. But a decent melee weapon is simply better in many ways.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Even then... primal fury pushes its crit chance to something around 70-80% ... substract the lower crit boost per rank, consider the higher combo gain and much bigger basedamage and you get pretty similar results from its raw numbers in the same period of time... on a overall much higher attack rate.

Primal Fury will have 65% crit chance with True Steel and Primal Rage.

It's attack rate isn't that high by default and you cannot push it too high either, because if you push the attack rate too far it breaks the stance, literally. Other stances on melee weapons do not suffer this issue as prominently, although it's still there.

Edited May 2, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Trichouette]

il y a 38 minutes, LazerSkink a dit :

And to make it worse, if all his other abilities suck, what's the point of being immortal ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

You can still use weapons, immortality is still useful ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

il y a une heure, jmthebigman a dit :

Still calling this one a synergy nerf, not making it a 1 trick pony and do more than something that gets beaten by regular melee... 

I have no idea what you are talking about....

il y a 53 minutes, (PS4)CoolD2108 a dit :

What was changed?

I think this :

Citation

Fixed Thrown weapons equipped with Power Throw scaling with the range from Wukong’s Iron Vault Augment.

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Gerade eben schrieb MiraClena:

But it isn't slash damage.

95% of the weapons are not and only a minority of the players are using meme strike at all.. CP is also rather common for an aura so chance is that you'll still end up doing the most damage in games.

Slash sure is king but it ain't necessary for something to be great.

[MiraClena]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

end up doing the most damage in games

WIth the same amount of modding, pretty sure other DPS warframe (excalibur in particular, which is more common than wukong) can do more damage.

Also, DeMonkey pretty much described the problem with Primal Fury, which is what I met when I tried to build him for that purpose too.

I mean, every warframe is certainly viable (because all you need is good mod for them to function), but wukong is definitely not efficient in cost compared to many other warframe.

Edited May 2, 2018 by MiraClena

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

 

Primal Fury will have 65% crit chance with True Steel and Primal Rage.

It's attack rate isn't that high by default and you cannot push it too high either, because if you push the attack rate too far it breaks the stance, literally. Other stances on melee weapons do not suffer this issue as prominently, although it's still there.

in: WARFRAME Wiki 

Ü i

• Iron Staff's total critical chance uses the following expression when accounting for Ability Strength, equipped Critical Chance Mods, and Iron Staff's 25% critical chance:

  Total Critical Chance = Base Critical Chance × ( 1 + Critical Chance Mod Bonuses ) + ( 0.25 × Primal Rage Value × Ability Strength ).

  • For example, using True Steel and Intensify and with Primal Rage at 100% results in:

  0.25 × ( 1 + 0.6 ) + ( 0.25 × 1 × 1.3 ) = 72.5% Critical Chance.

   

   

   

   

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

in: WARFRAME Wiki 

Ü i

• Iron Staff's total critical chance uses the following expression when accounting for Ability Strength, equipped Critical Chance Mods, and Iron Staff's 25% critical chance:

  Total Critical Chance = Base Critical Chance × ( 1 + Critical Chance Mod Bonuses ) + ( 0.25 × Primal Rage Value × Ability Strength ).

  • For example, using True Steel and Intensify and with Primal Rage at 100% results in:

  0.25 × ( 1 + 0.6 ) + ( 0.25 × 1 × 1.3 ) = 72.5% Critical Chance.

   

   

   

   

• The maximum bonus critical chance cap of 100% is not affected by mods.

I don't know who posted that final bit, but they're counting Power Strength as a... boost to Primal Fury's total crit chance...

This is not the case. The only thing power strength increases with regards to Primal Rage is the amount of crit chance you gain per kill, it still caps at 100% though.

I mean, read the rest of the wiki page you quoted from, nowhere else does it mention anything like that. Every other point reinforces the fact that 100% is the cap, and that 100% provides 25% additional crit chance.

Hell, the fact that whoever typed that final bit referred to the ability as ''Iron Staff'' honestly shows a lack of effort.

Edited May 2, 2018 by DeMonkey

[DeMonkey]

14 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

You can still use weapons, immortality is still useful ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

Rhino can still use weapons whilst being just as immortal in all the of the relevant content that DE has given us.

Rhino can also buff, move faster and provide some CC.

Wukong's immortality is nothing to brag about, at all. The only way it's better is the fact that it requires slightly less effort than Rhino's to maintain. For frames like Nidus and Trinity however it's just as boringly effortless.

By no means does Defy make Wukong ''useful''.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

• The maximum bonus critical chance cap of 100% is not affected by mods.

I don't know who posted that final bit, but they're counting Power Strength as a... boost to Primal Fury's total crit chance...

This is not the case. The only thing power strength increases with regards to Primal Rage is the amount of crit chance you gain per kill, it still caps at 100% though.

I mean, read the rest of the wiki page you quoted from, nowhere else does it mention anything like that. Every other point reinforces the fact that 100% is the cap, and that 100% provides 25% additional crit chance.

Noone else put a formula there at all.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Noone else put a formula there at all.

So?

There doesn't need to be a formula. Primal Rage grants ''x% crit chance per kill, capping at 100%''. Why would that need a forumla in the first place? 

[housaxon]

wukung RIP

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

So?

There doesn't need to be a formula. Primal Rage grants ''x% crit chance per kill, capping at 100%''. Why would that need a forumla in the first place? 

To determine whether it's additive or multiplicative with crit mods, a flat bonus or adding to its base for example.

I'd rather trust the guy that took the effort at all 👌

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

To determine whether it's additive or multiplicative with crit mods, a flat bonus or adding to its base for example.

I'd rather trust the guy that took the effort at all 👌

Okay, so can you provide me with proof then? A source that shows that they put in effort to determine that, counter to everything else the wiki page states, Power Strength increases the maximum crit chance.

All I see is a random formula that goes against everything else.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Gerade eben schrieb DeMonkey:

Okay, so can you provide me with proof then? A source that shows that they put in effort to determine that, counter to everything else the wiki page states, Power Strength increases the maximum crit chance.

All I see is a random formula that goes against everything else.

It literally goes against a single lazy statement.

[MiraClena]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It literally goes against a single lazy statement.

I'm quite curious if you used Wukong regularly and find that this warframe is comparable to other popular warframe.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It literally goes against a single lazy statement.

• The total bonus critical chance is 100% of Primal Fury's base critical chance (25%) therefore when 100% is displayed on screen this augment is providing its full 25% additional critical chance.
• The maximum bonus critical chance cap of 100% is not affected by mods.
• Primal Rage is a Warframe Augment Mod for Wukong that increases the Critical Chance of Primal Fury with every kill, up to a maximum of 100%

That's 3 statements.

I'll test it for you though, 349% power strength would give me 127.25% crit chance, or guranteed yellows and a decent chance at oranges according to this formula.

I was still getting normal, non critical hits.