Working with Limbo: A guide for non-Limbo's

[Kaiath64]

I think a good way for a limbo to create some QoL for the rest of the group is NO stasis, bright energy so you can see which enemy is in the rift, high duration and low/neutral range and use cataclysm to block choke points and use banish carefuly so you don't banish another player...

Btw, DE, why stasis work on our weapons? I know it makes sense because it stops bullets (and enemies) but it doesn't make it any harder to kill enemies, you can destroy everything with any melee while cataclysm+stasis are active, it's just an annoyance for everyone else who just want to shoot and only shoot

[Tsardova]

5 hours ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

First, this wasn't just posted on the forums. I put it on reddit and obviously youtube. Only reason it's on the forums is so that it can get attention and trigger discussion(And apparently people).

Second, the fact that Limbo is not super-complicated does not mean that guides showing what he is capable of and what other players can do when he's there have no value. Seriously, the worst case scenario with video's like this is that Limbo players can just share these videos with friends/new players who they want to play with, rather than having to explain this stuff themselves. You make it sound like having more information out there is a bad thing.

Third, the largest part of Limbo's seeming "problem" is due to all the large-bubble setups, which are awful, and honestly, I wish DE could find a way to suggest to players that big bubble isn't ideal. That said, if you're in a pug, and Limbo knows what he's doing you shouldn't really even notice that Limbo's on the field unless you step inside his cataclysm, which should be tiny, and only cover the objective. He "should" be quietly making it impossible to fail the mission by taking the objective off the map with a tiny cataclysm or banish.

Finally: there ARE some parts of Limbo that I would honestly like to gotten rid of for the sake of other players. Bullets shouldn't be stopped by the void, except maybe for Limbo himself, as once something is paralyzed for what is generally 20 seconds, it doesn't matter if it's killed by melee or not, there's nothing to stop it from dying. The portal on his roll should be removed from him in pve content, as it is almost never used intentionally by Limbo to get others into the void, and even if he did want them there, he's got cataclysm and banish, so it's just pointless and annoying. There should be some kind of way for players who are banished to know how to get out of the void without checking the wiki. And finally, considering how  troublesome he is, and that you basically need Narrow Minded just to make him acceptable to use in a pug, he shouldn't be given through a quest you can access at any MR, but rather at something like at least MR 10. 

But. None of that invalidates the points I'm trying to make about the current Limbo, or the value of any video's I make on him or working with him. Cause he's in the game, he's enjoyable, he does have value, whether you agree with it or not, and so people are going to play him. Trying to make him easier to work with, and trying to raise the community's knowledge of what he's capable of is not, in any way, a bad thing.

Videos on how to play limbo are in the works, but it's taking a bit, cause while you can dumb him down a lot by just saying "Do only this", I want to do a complete guide that covers things like how to clear nullifers, WHY you should generally prefer smaller bubbles, general rift etiquette(Yes, including stuff like colors), and more. Keep an eye on the channel, I've got a bit planned before that stuff comes out, and a couple of sortie-only mission varients I have to wait to record, but they're in the works. I just wanted the easier to make videos that can help the 95% of the community that don't play Limbo to come out first. 😄 

This. Though as I've said, a large part of the issue is that forcing large staticlysms on people feels awful for them, even though the reasoning behind it is fairly understandable. He really does become much easier for other players to tolerate when the bubble's only around the size of the defense coffin.

>< Can't really counter that, though he can get energy back very fast with hunter adrenaline. Might just turn into a war of patience! 😄 

Civil? On topic? This is on a forum, and talking about Limbo of all things. You'd have better of finding that in a game of LoL! ><

It's not condescending to offer information that might help players make their game easier, especially since they don't have to watch the videos(Though I'd hope they would). I'm not going to lie, not everything about Limbo is perfect. Just like how Roflcopters/ember/banshee/take your pick can make anything on the normal starchart rather boring for three other players. However, these video's offer ways around some of Limbo's problems, and until DE fixes the "issues" with his kit, it has value.

Also, just feel I need to point out: max-range kill everything AOE frames make your whole kit useless. 😄 

Yeah, Limbo has trolling potential. It's all over his kit, and it does not help his reputation. There's some thing's they can definitely remove, though I understand DE not really wanting to mess with him too much. There's stuff they COULD remove that would get rid of a lot of problems, but if they just removed every ability that has potential to troll people, it'd just mean removing his entire kit and passive. Hopefully some of the things in my first guide can help people deal with the troll Limbos, but beyond just telling people to dodge, that's about it.

While other frames can, yes, kill things faster, it's really hard to say any way of helping the objective is "better" than outright indestructibility.

Oh, a guide for him is coming, but this was faster to make and applies to more people. And yes, I admit it's unfortunate that it needs to exist, but I love Limbo, and I'd prefer to see him keep as much of his current self as possible if they ever do rework him.

Like I said before, I don't like the people who play Limbo badly, I just fully understand why it's so easy for them to do so. I wish there was some way to convince people to just use only small bubbles, or better yet, to move the MR you need to access Limbo to a point where most players would have the mods/knowledge they need to play him intelligently. 

On most maps, Limbo should NOT be changing gameplay much, at least not in pugs. Small bubble on defensive-type missions. Single target banish on certain NPCs. Occasional banish/stasis/murder on troublesome things like Bursa's. The problem is his potential to be troublesome is very easily accessed, while the build you really need to make him not a game-changing pain in the ass requires a rare mod from the orokin derilict.

Aye, and that's what these guides were for, to try and give the community at large some kind of reference for what they can do around Limbo, and what he can do if played in a non-disruptive way. Not 100% sure I succeeded, but hopefully I helped a little.

Your emphasis on shouldn't and yet most pub Limbos I ran into so far has been nothing but headache inducing stasis rift build... not even on just defense missions, practically everywhere.

 

Only a minimal number of limbo players I've ran into random missions bother to use singular banish, and most of them I noticed having Haven augment on their build. These ones I can appreciate really as they don't use them incessantly.

[AcceI]

"Working with Limbo"

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by AcceI

[HisokaXEveryone]

45 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

Your emphasis on shouldn't and yet most pub Limbos I ran into so far has been nothing but headache inducing stasis rift build... not even on just defense missions, practically everywhere.

 

Only a minimal number of limbo players I've ran into random missions bother to use singular banish, and most of them I noticed having Haven augment on their build. These ones I can appreciate really as they don't use them incessantly.

You... encounter Haven augment Limbo's? They exist O.O? I mean, small bubble's already rare, and I don't feel haven's particularly strong unless in a specific, premade team, but seeing it in an pug feels like seeing unicorns.

Anyways, I know that there's bad Limbo's out there. But there's good ones around too, and they really can be helpful. Nothing I say can really help deal with the bad ones, I know, but there's definitely times where a Limbo enters a mission and before anyone's even had a chance to see what he's capable of, he gets a massive amount of crap, and even quite a number of dodges(Which considering how glitchy DE's host changes are, that can be basically a teamwide abort). It's thankfully much rarer than it used to be, but it's still around, and I hope my videos might combat that a bit.

[HisokaXEveryone]

2 hours ago, Kaiath64 said:

I think a good way for a limbo to create some QoL for the rest of the group is NO stasis, bright energy so you can see which enemy is in the rift, high duration and low/neutral range and use cataclysm to block choke points and use banish carefuly so you don't banish another player...

Btw, DE, why stasis work on our weapons? I know it makes sense because it stops bullets (and enemies) but it doesn't make it any harder to kill enemies, you can destroy everything with any melee while cataclysm+stasis are active, it's just an annoyance for everyone else who just want to shoot and only shoot

Bright energy has some downsides unfortunately, so in my experience it's best to go for middle ground. The brighter the energy is, the harder it is to see what's inside the rift and what's on the OTHER side of the rift(Remember you can shoot through cataclysm no problems). That said, anyone who goes black energy needs to stop, now. And yep, generally high duration/low range cataclyms are the ideal for most maps. You can def make an argument for a mid-range cataclysm on some maps like infested excavation thanks to those power carriers being able to target the excavator through cataclysm... but I'd generally avoid that argument in a pug on most missions, and the largest bubbles are pretty much always unjustifiable when combined with stasis.

 

And yeah, stasis shoudln't effect teammate weaponry. But... I admit... I'd feel bad if it didn't effect Limbo's. He can control it just fine, and while ZA WORLD moments are almost always useless, they ARE satisfying as hell. Nothing like running through a spy zone, banish/stasising all the areas, firing an arrow at each, hacking the terminal, and then disabling stasis on the way out. 😄

[FlusteredFerret]

Hmm...guess I've been lucky so far.

Only come across one Limbo so far and it was very weak (Rank 4). It was on a defence mission and the poor sod kept getting killed. I revived him once and other team members about 3 times. No bubbles or other weird shenanigans to speak of.

 

[HisokaXEveryone]

9 hours ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Hmm...guess I've been lucky so far.

Only come across one Limbo so far and it was very weak (Rank 4). It was on a defence mission and the poor sod kept getting killed. I revived him once and other team members about 3 times. No bubbles or other weird shenanigans to speak of.

 

He's kind of rare, especially at lower levels. Mostly when I do see others it's on sortie missions. Anyways, despite what a rather vocal part of the community likes to say, he's very powerful in the right hands, and can be a great part of a team, even if the bad ones and trolls make that hard to believe.

 

Also, on another note, I've released another video. This one's a short guide on Limbo himself, and combat tricks he can use just about anywhere. Feel free to check it out, here's the link to that forum post:
 

 

[HisokaXEveryone]

On 2018-05-29 at 12:04 PM, Oreades said:

Which is the exact reason that I focused my efforts into building the perfect anti-Limbo Cycron. Can't run out of ammo if your weapon regenerates all it's ammo in .5 seconds.

Admittedly I'm hopeful I won't have to use it...... but I'd rather be prepared.

 

On 2018-05-30 at 5:09 PM, Oreades said:

More of a war of spite really 😛

I try to start off understanding but I can be real spiteful. As long as it doesn't actually threaten the mission I can see myself keeping it up as long as they do.

So... I decided to take out the mining laser and Cycron and actually test them in simulacrum, and.... I'm sorry man. Doesn't work particularly well. Yes, you've got infinite ammo, but it seems to use a very generous version of bullet resisitance. I unloaded with both lasers for about 30 seconds each without breaking a single stasis. . .

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

11 minutes ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

 

So... I decided to take out the mining laser and Cycron and actually test them in simulacrum, and.... I'm sorry man. Doesn't work particularly well. Yes, you've got infinite ammo, but it seems to use a very generous version of bullet resisitance. I unloaded with both lasers for about 30 seconds each without breaking a single stasis. . .

Are you sure they weren't glitching or something? I use the cycron to break any stasis after 2 reloads.

Took about 14 seconds to destroy it. I don't know where you are getting 30 seconds from.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by (PS4)Jaztok

[HisokaXEveryone]

Will check again in a moment, what's your build?

 

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

Just now, HisokaXEveryone said:

Will check again in a moment, what's your build?

 

For Limbo or cycron? The nosam cutter wasn't doing it.

[HisokaXEveryone]

Cycron. Don't know if power strength makes stasis harder to break, but I'm not slipping strength into my duration build just for that 😄

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

Just now, HisokaXEveryone said:

Cycron. Don't know if power strength makes stasis harder to break, but I'm not slipping strength into my duration build just for that 😄

Power Strength doesn't. lolz My Limbo is built crappy because I never use him, but I can still test the stasis time.

[HisokaXEveryone]

Alright, so, I'm a bit of an idiot, though I still wouldn't suggest the cycron for Stasis breaking too much. Tried a few times, got sometimes pretty noticeable differences each time. So I recorded a quick video to check and yep, was getting different numbers each time. First time it was 17 seconds before stasis broke, then 23 seconds, then 18, and the fourth time was 16. I was almost ready to upload this video and send it to DE when I realized what was going on.

Multishot mods are weird. Since I was at 180% multishot, that meant that all "shots" had a 20% chance of missing one of their 3 "bullets".

Still, never got below 16 seconds, and before I started recording to double check, watching the stasis counter seemed to suggest the top end of this was all the way at 27 seconds, so I'm  still not sure I'd suggest the cycron unless you're willing to occasionally be really patient.

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

4 minutes ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

Alright, so, I'm a bit of an idiot, though I still wouldn't suggest the cycron for Stasis breaking too much. Tried a few times, got sometimes pretty noticeable differences each time. So I recorded a quick video to check and yep, was getting different numbers each time. First time it was 17 seconds before stasis broke, then 23 seconds, then 18, and the fourth time was 16. I was almost ready to upload this video and send it to DE when I realized what was going on.

Multishot mods are weird. Since I was at 180% multishot, that meant that all "shots" had a 20% chance of missing one of their 3 "bullets".

Still, never got below 16 seconds, and before I started recording to double check, watching the stasis counter seemed to suggest the top end of this was all the way at 27 seconds, so I'm  still not sure I'd suggest the cycron unless you're willing to occasionally be really patient.

That is weird. I would rather use the cycron and save ammo instead of wasting it in the end. Waiting 16 seconds is very short. I don't see how patience plays into it personally. I could say waiting a minute would require patience, but 16 seconds is nothing. The cycron is also my main sidearm, so I always have it by my side. It can melt lv135 pretty easy without the worry of ammo.

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

 

So... I decided to take out the mining laser and Cycron and actually test them in simulacrum, and.... I'm sorry man. Doesn't work particularly well. Yes, you've got infinite ammo, but it seems to use a very generous version of bullet resisitance. I unloaded with both lasers for about 30 seconds each without breaking a single stasis. . .

Eh I was popping stasis with a hair over one clip and that took just about 2 seconds. 

Never underestimate the power of 331% Multishot. 

Edit: actually just popped into Cetus to double check was more like 4 seconds and it was essentially fully reloaded the second I took my finger off the trigger. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Oreades