To Nuke, or Not to Nuke?

[Wordse]

6 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Even though Warframe and Cookie Clicker are both about getting to the next big number, Warframe actually has an RPG/shooter/brawler along the way. Cookie Clicker just has...clicking. No matter what you do in CC, you are going to progress, whereas a lot of Warframe content requires you to have built and modded good enough gear to be able to 
get there, as well as understanding strategies to succeed with, like which frames are the best for which mission.

Case in point; a frequently-used proposal is for nuke abilities to maintain their range and power, but require more input. Consider Harrow; he's considered as one of the best-designed frames in the game, because his abilities require preparation. His 1 charges his 2, his 3 gets more powerful the longer you channel it, his 4 is a great panic tool when you've just activated your 2. He has incredibly powerful abilities that are made more challenging by requiring effort, and nobody complains that "too much effort" is a problem.

Same goes for Saryn; Spores will kill everything in the game, as long as you put the effort in to make sure that enemies aren't dying to Spores alone. I don't see many people complaining that that is too much effort either.

If you want to go back the age of Ash, Saryn and Mag 1.0, where you just pressed a button and it killed everything in a room instantly, then there's nothing inherently wrong with that idea, but know that DE is actively developing away from easy nukes. They are actively trying to have the strongest abilities require more effort to use. In keeping with this, they have deliberately not touched items and abilities that are super-powered but also require effort. They have almost never touched the Tigris Prime, Soma Prime or Vauban/Nova's best abilities, because they have clear limitations. If you accept that, you're gonna have a much better time than if you constantly live in denial that anything less than your dream game is terrible.

A little snip but warframe does have a RPG/shooter/Brawler and thats all good but it has also had a tone of nukes that got put in and that at least to me seems like they intended this playstyle and have changed it due to some part of the community disliking it. You have to put time and effort into modding and stuff but reaching a point where your time was rewarded with power was satisfying and locking that back under keystrokes/button presses sucks. Sure you could play less efficiently and work with lower power level and teamwork to overcome obstacles and thats one way to play but also if you wanted to just feel like a crazy space ninja magic person and annihilate a giant space station...you could everyone got something. But removing the nukes your excising a part of the community taking away the way they play and telling them "Get good, buzz off, the way you play and have fun is wrong and needs to end now grab a weapon and only use powers how we say here are the viable and useful builds experimentation is done."

I imagine you don't see many people complaining about Harrow cause the people who would play him at current are down with that play style and he's not wiping a map and anyone who would be is tied up trying to save Mag/Ash/Saryn/Trinity(exploit) so their attention is split but the number of threads and people being herded off to a new nuke frame is a bad trend it obvious people want to do it but DE is trying to remove them from the game.

I get that accepting DE only wants people to play one way would make it easier but it has got to be clear that that dream game has and is for the time being still extant its just being dissolved. 

Reading any of that back its really blame and more than a few assumptions are made but I think the game can exist in a state with Easy Nukes and more in depth skill play casue people can make groups 

[Klokwerkaos]

32 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Case in point; a frequently-used proposal is for nuke abilities to maintain their range and power, but require more input.

That's not a compromise for me, that's what I've been saying from the get go across several threads on this issue.  The abilities need to be balanced, not destroyed.  

People calling for the destruction of a playstyle (such as this anti nuking thread) are flat out anti-intellectual enemies as far as this game goes and will be handled thusly.

What I'm saying isn't don't change anything, what I'm saying is people calling for total destruction vs people talking about reasonable balance changes have no middle ground, and until these people stop being so polarized there is no helping them and frankly when people get that far out of whack it tries my patience to the point of not giving a crap about them and their stupid beliefs that have no grounding and reason.

 

[Klokwerkaos]

17 minutes ago, Wordse said:

Reading any of that back its really blame and more than a few assumptions are made but I think the game can exist in a state with Easy Nukes and more in depth skill play casue people can make groups 

Ah, but now you're saying what I've been saying all along.  Put your own group together.

But see, they don't want that, they just want everyone to play the way that they want and to force everyone into a box.  They can't be bothered letting people live and let live, they have to destroy anything they don't like to make things just the way that they like.  That's the REAL argument here, it's the SAME argument that's been going on for a while.  

I honestly think this is a flat out growing pain of the game and the only thing I can think of is that one solution about tags I proposed that one time.

[sixmille]

You're making it a drop rate issue when it's not. If you're not enjoying the game after 1500 hours maybe it is time to do something else? I'm close to that time mark too and don't really enjoy seeing the map being cleared every 3s. On the other hand, I don't care about getting a new warframe in an hour or in a day. In most cases the drop rates are very generous. And even if I have to spend 10h to get it then so be it, DE doesn't releases new warframes often enough for that to be an issue.

I think that it's really malicious to blame the game when it's 100% a player issue. You are in a hurry to get the new warframes in less than a day, nobody but yourself is creating this expectation.

Edited June 16, 2018 by sixmille

[Mu_Gera]

Golden mean fallacy, nukes are good but conservatively. How to translate that into gameplay, I have no idea.