Tenno Artisans: Researching Alternate Functionality For Tenno Weapons

[LunaMoff]

The Fluff

 

Throughout this conflict, the Tenno have fought with the lost technology of the fallen Orokin civilization. They have reclaimed whatever they could and recreated what they needed and the Origin System has borne witness to the might of the awoken Tenno. The Grineer, Corpus, and Infested have all adapted to this new threat, building or mutating new technology to fight against these demons in faceless armor. The Grineer have produced launchers for rockets and sawblades, flamethrowers, and a host of other equipment. The Corpus have mastered robotics, plasma and beam technology, even integrating lost Orokin knowledge into their own weapon design. The Infested have even evolved to sap the power from Warframes to leave their unfortunate prey helpless. However the Tenno, for all their mastery of war, have been unable to develop and have had to rely on the discovery of lost technology or scavenging from their enemies. The Warlords of the Tenno have determined that this situation is untennable. If the Tenno are to be ultimately victorious, they cannot be reliant on outside sources for equipment and technology. It is in this time that the call went out to rediscover the art of designing, building, and adapting equipment to meet their current enemies. The time has come for the Artisans of the Tenno to awaken.

 

The Inspiration

 

In our clan we were discussing the pros and cons of the default weapons, specifically the Kunai, against the Stalker's personalized kit, namely the Despair. I saw one of my comrades wielding the Despair for it's higher base damage and crit rate, the higher base meant mods would have an improved effect and they liked it that way. However another had a preference for the default kunai, despite their lower base damage they ignored armor and had a chance to stagger the enemy, which they felt was more useful than the extra potential base damage. The conclusion was that it was personal preference as to which was better. This however inspired a thought. The Stalker has tailored his kit specifically for hunting us, the Tenno. He has taken default weapons and turned them into something more. If he can, then why can't we?

 

The Idea

 

The main problem with Tenno technology is at the end of the day it is inferior to it's Orokin conterpart. The Paris Prime is superior to the Paris, the Orthos Prime is superior to the Orthos, the Latron Prime is superior to the Latron as it should be. The Orokin technology is so far past what the current cultures are capable of that it is rightfully more advanced and more powerful than Tenno technology, which is at best a crude imitation. However the one thing that we have with the Tenno weapons that we don't with the Orokin weapons is understanding. We built it, so we should know how it works even if Orokin technology eludes us.

 

If we understand our technology, then it stands to reason that we could augment our technology. If a clan were to devote the equipment and resources to studying an enemy like the Stalker did with the Tenno, then we should be able to find weaknesses in that enemy and augment the default kit to exploit those weaknesses. For example, let us take the humble Braton, one of the most universal of Tenno weapons. We've all held one even if it was just the Mk I. Now the Braton Prime is a masterful piece, as much a work of art as a weapon, capable of hitting harder and with a more sustainable ammo economy. Our Braton will never be as good as that but we can modify it to suit a specific need.

 

Let us say your clan agrees that everyone is sick of those damn Moas rushing you and scattering people with a stomp before unloading a hail of plasma bolts into your face. So you go into the Energy lab and bring up a list of enemies and technologies of interest relating to the Corpus and you choose the Moa security proxy. You invest a large number of fieldron among other resources, maybe even going out and personally slaying a few to fulfill a need for hard data on the enemy in question. At the end of a long research period, your clan develops an alternative Braton skin, with a lower fire rate and lower clip capacity but firing electromagnetic rounds that can cause Moas to stumble when shot even through shields.

 

You could go on to develop a Braton skin to counter Infested with lower damage but higher clip and fire rate and firing poisonous rounds that cause a rigor-mortis like effect to slow down onrushing hordes. Perhaps a Braton skin focused on Grineer with lower ammo capacity but firing incendiary rounds capable of cooking off spare bullets held by enemy Lancers and Troopers. These are all just examples but the possibilities could be great without a need for mountains of brand new weapons that would overwhelm new players. A player could be introduced to the Braton, and then after getting used to it could browse the options that could further suit it to their playstyle.

 

These options would not match the power and flexibility of the Orokin technology, but they would offer side grades that encourage alternate play styles for people who might not have the time to chase after the Prime weapons. So you would have your Braton and you could trade it in for the powerful, flexible(and let's face it, very sexy) Braton Prime or you could choose to specialize your current equipment and target specific enemies or situations exceptionally well.

 

This would serve three major purposes.

1. It would add significant depth to the much neglected skin system

2. It would provide research rooms with additional functionality after the handful of weapons have been researched.

3. Primes would still be something beautiful and powerful to aspire to.

4. Vanilla weapons and invested upgrades would remain useful and encourage alternate play styles.

 

Far too long, decided against reading

 

My idea is that clans could research skins for vanilla weapons that would have special effects tailored to fighting specific enemies.They still would not be as good as Prime weapons, but with a powerful situational utility that would keep them from becoming obsolete.

 

Edit: I'd just like to ask folks to be vocal if you like this idea. Even if it's simply stating support, posts keep the thread afloat and helps other people see it, thanks in advance!

Edited August 22, 2013 by Deteno

[Drlathe]

Holy hell, that sounds fantastic, Warframe needs more choices in customization anyway, plus i like the idea of changing weapons we love, into better versions of themselves, perhaps it would be better if each tenno did it themselves, based upon how you use your guns, like if you use it to kill mostly infested, you could research an alt skin that's better at killing them, that way each person could get what they want out of there weapon, not what the clan itself wants. So the same as your idea but without the clan.

[LunaMoff]

Yeah I'd be all for that. The research system just seemed to be a good framework to use for the purposes of illustration but I'd be just as happy if the clans weren't involved at all.

[Liandra88]

A long research period sounds extremely painful, and we obviously can't just pull superguns out of our asses via the dojo, so the builds might end up being insanely expensive. However, skins have promise, if there was a point system in place for how much you can change something from its original stats or this would be abused SO HARD. So, if you want to add poison, it will cost you...say, fire rate. You want shield ignore? Less damage per shot or a much longer reload time.

 

I somehow don't think the DE are going to take it as far as you're taking it - they might create a couple skins for certain weapons but letting players have free reign over the stats of a weapon would be a terrible, terrible thing.

[Gryphticon]

Yes, Yes, yes!

Edited August 18, 2013 by Gryphticon

[LunaMoff]

A long research period sounds extremely painful, and we obviously can't just pull superguns out of our asses via the dojo, so the builds might end up being insanely expensive. However, skins have promise, if there was a point system in place for how much you can change something from its original stats or this would be abused SO HARD. So, if you want to add poison, it will cost you...say, fire rate. You want shield ignore? Less damage per shot or a much longer reload time.

 

I somehow don't think the DE are going to take it as far as you're taking it - they might create a couple skins for certain weapons but letting players have free reign over the stats of a weapon would be a terrible, terrible thing.

 

All this is just a preliminary idea, I don't anticipate my verbatim idea showing up in game. I'd be thrilled if I could just serve as inspiration. XD

 

Agreed on the subject of choosing stats personally, I kinda figured DE would determine a few variant sets to include if this was done at all. I was more trying to convey the idea that their stats could vary a good deal from the base weapon.

[MrGrae]

I second... 5th this motion! It would add some long-term replayability and a sense of progression!

[tantananan]

I support this and so does the majority of players! Cheers!

[ForgemasterHD]

All my yes. In fact, I am going to share this with my clan.

[LunaMoff]

All my yes. In fact, I am going to share this with my clan.

Thanks! I appreciate it a lot. :D

[Ditsydoo]

This sounds so good it would even fit in the lore if DE wanted it too. I mean yeah we can take tech so why not make it ourselves?

[KoshLovesYou]

Yeah, tying this to the Clan system and existing research system would be a great idea to expand on it. It'd also add a team-focused benefit and easily switchable situation focused buff.

 

Not to mention, yaknow, give us something that doesn't just use up Neurodes to make.

[LunaMoff]

Yeah, tying this to the Clan system and existing research system would be a great idea to expand on it. It'd also add a team-focused benefit and easily switchable situation focused buff.

 

Not to mention, yaknow, give us something that doesn't just use up Neurodes to make.

Yeah, that was something I was thinking about. Even if everyone had the Prime gear it might still be beneificial to have someone bring along a specialized Tenno item as a squad support weapon. So you could have three are kitted for pure combat while one brings along the aformentioned anti-moa gun or something.

[Malater]

I have to say, I never looked at skins from this angle.  I do like the idea of researching an enemy to better specialize against them.  I mean, mods are great and all, but they can only do so much.  And there are some weapons I would be more than willing to sacrifice a few stats for a more specific purpose.

 

I do think it would be better to not have some sort of point system, but instead an algorithm put in the game to decide what stats change according to the weapon and enemy selected, though.  Giving the choice to the player provides more skins than the game needs to be able to keep up with.  Having the stats of the skin crafted by an algorithm means that the game only needs to understand "Moa skin" when calculating stats, rather than "skin changing damage type to electricity, adding stun chance of X%, and reduction of fire rate by Y%."  It would make the change easier for the devs, and mean that players would not have to juggle infinitely many potential skins.

[MECT_HET]

Good idea. Altering base damage type via applying sking is pretty ODD, but this is orokin ninja space, so I'm ookaay with it.

[Lers]

+1

 

The non-prime weapons need some.... usability after getting the Prime one (other than scrapping for slot space).

 

However i really can't imagine a point based modding system placed in game for custom skin creation. For technical reasons mostly. Maybe some premade skins with premade highly specialized but in some aspect superior to the original stats? One or two per weapon tops i guess, to avoid balancing hell.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Lers

[zephyrdragoon]

I'm all for this. My only worry is that the augments might eclipse prime weapons. Guns that shoot toxic bullets might be more valuable than 10 extra damage. 

[Skynin]

Also, just remember Borderlands/Borderlands 2. Weapons there can shoot with horizontal arc of bullets, ricochet from the surfaces, became a little grenades and etc.
There should be some special things like that, would be nice.

[Malater]

Zephyrdragoon, if there were a skin that gave you toxic damage, the devs could easily compensate by dropping base damage or fire rate.  Or maybe you would lose accuracy as the toxin makes the bullets lopsided?  The point is, all the skins would be just like your alternative helmets, you get buffs and debuffs.

[LunaMoff]

I have to say, I never looked at skins from this angle.  I do like the idea of researching an enemy to better specialize against them.  I mean, mods are great and all, but they can only do so much.  And there are some weapons I would be more than willing to sacrifice a few stats for a more specific purpose.

 

I do think it would be better to not have some sort of point system, but instead an algorithm put in the game to decide what stats change according to the weapon and enemy selected, though.  Giving the choice to the player provides more skins than the game needs to be able to keep up with.  Having the stats of the skin crafted by an algorithm means that the game only needs to understand "Moa skin" when calculating stats, rather than "skin changing damage type to electricity, adding stun chance of X%, and reduction of fire rate by Y%."  It would make the change easier for the devs, and mean that players would not have to juggle infinitely many potential skins.

That would be an interesting concept. I hadn't considered the possibility of a set algorithm for different enemy types but that might streamline things so that when new weapons are added, the basic framework for the alternate versions would already be there. Yeah a point buy system would be dangerous, I'm not sure how customizable the things could be or if the devs would make the options themselves but that's a good note.

 

Good idea. Altering base damage type via applying sking is pretty ODD, but this is orokin ninja space, so I'm ookaay with it.

True, but I kinda figured the skin would be more representative of different iterations of a weapon. Like, you'd have your Braton-G which is functionally identical to the Braton but tuned more for fighting Grineer and a Braton-M tuned for fighting Moas. Like, if you look at a gun catalog there isn't just one version per model.

Like if you're looking at Glocks they'll have the G22 which is a standard sized .40 caliber, the G32 which is a compact .357, and so on. They have different ammo types and are bigger or smaller but they're all Glocks.

 

+1

 

The non-prime weapons need some.... usability after getting the Prime one (other than scrapping for slot space).

 

However i really can't imagine a point based modding system placed in game for custom skin creation. For technical reasons mostly. Maybe some premade skins with premade highly specialized but in some aspect superior to the original stats? One or two per weapon tops i guess, to avoid balancing hell.

Yeah that's kind of how I imagined would probably work best. Would be hard to implement a system to custom make guns without the framework already in place. Malater's idea about the algorithm might be more feasible but a point buy system would probably get ridiculous XD

 

I'm all for this. My only worry is that the augments might eclipse prime weapons. Guns that shoot toxic bullets might be more valuable than 10 extra damage. 

That's a legitimate concern which is the main reason I was trying to emphasize that the custom versions would probably have some drawbacks to get their situational benefits. Like Mal was saying it could be something like less damage to other enemies, a lower ammo capacity, slower fire rate, etc. Hopefully not all at once though. XD

But yes, Primes would have to stay the stronger weapons to maintain their value and keep void runs rewarding.

 

Also, just remember Borderlands/Borderlands 2. Weapons there can shoot with horizontal arc of bullets, ricochet from the surfaces, became a little grenades and etc.

There should be some special things like that, would be nice.

That would be awesome but let's not push our luck. XD

First I'd just like to see some skin variants available for the base weapons, then we can start pushing the devs for more exotic options.

 

Thanks for the responses everyone! Keep in mind that if you like the idea, it really helps to post a response even if it's just stating support. Helps to keep the thread afloat and help more people to see it.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Deteno

[Mochacci]

The game really needs a sort of skin system for the whole body of the tenno, it also needs a dual weapon system for weapons of different classes, for example a sword like the Cronus paired with a heat dagger, more customization for everyone. They also need a set of abilities universal for all warframes, for example a power buff or defense buff ability, and maybe a set of alternate set of abilities for each warframe that comes with different helmets for different playing styles, such as the underpowered Ash which excels in 1v1 speed runs and support but is ignored when tanking, ccing or raiding is involved, maybe a new ability like for example a smoke ability which deals DoT to enemies and allows a team to escape a dangerous fire fight, this really helps and allows for a little crowd control to be put into his pallet. Another idea is modular classes, for example each weapon costs a select amount of points and there is a maximum amount of points for the class, such as BO2 in that sense, for example The warframe Rhino has a set amount of point of 15 the primary weapon boar costs 6 points the secondary akbolto 5 points and so on, or maybe you want dual primary weapons and no secondary or melee, 6 points for boar and 6 points for hind, or would you like 2 secondaries and a melee, 5 for akbolto, 6 for despair, and 4 for the heat sword. Modular classes are a new concept that has been stuck in my mind for quite some time now and I feel it would become a big part of the online experience for games like this one day. 

[Spikey844]

I love the whole concept, it would some weapons more desireable as they could be upgraded to be used against a certain faction.

[Neo3602]

This a really great Idea Deteno and would make the game a lot more interesting

maybe also have it so that each of the variants count as a separate weapon so you can get mastery from it?

regardless this is a good Idea and I support it fully

[notlamprey]

I like where this is going.

[Zoid25]

Sounds like a great idea!