Limbo Rework

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

The idea of having Rift Torrent's effect also affect every warframe in the rift would be awesome, though. Imagine everyone in the rift with 1000% weapon damage.

[BlackjackRaven]

Hello, I started using Limbo after the rework before this one, for me he was fine for any solo players like me. The bullet freeze was okay, but not for co-op, so I understand the nerf just fine, the only thing I didn't like was the decrease in time for Stasis. However, I think it can be countered with Cataclysmic Continuum.  

[BlackjackRaven]

1 minute ago, EclipseRage450 said:

Hello, I started using Limbo after the rework before this one, for me he was fine for any solo players like me. The bullet freeze was okay, but not for co-op, so I understand the nerf just fine, the only thing I didn't like was the decrease in time for Stasis. However, I think it can be countered with Cataclysmic Continuum.  

As a second thought the bullet freeze was kinda of redundant. 

[LAD.Y]

The duration cut was unnecessary. In practice it doesn't change anything in Limbos play style so it's more of a 'look we nerfed him to compensate a god tier CC!' 

People who hate Limbo obviously are fine with it. And will always say that anyone who says otherwise is just whining. I will say this though. Vaubam Bastille which now in essence on paper does the exact same thing as Stasis is on paper with a better duration count so again, I say that the duration cut was pretty dumb.

 

I would prefer them giving stasis duration at least 20 seconds base, but that's just me. I'm not expecting a full removal of the duration change but I think 20 (which would translate to like 40ish with mods) would feel slot more fluid for limbo players that are uncomfortable with it.

 

This is because unless you run natural talent (which before wasn't necessary) you're wasting a good like 3ish seconds of the ability to cast and recast anyway so 15 turns really into more like 12 etc. 

Just a thought that will probably get ignored.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

4 hours ago, LAD.Y said:

The duration cut was unnecessary. In practice it doesn't change anything in Limbos play style so it's more of a 'look we nerfed him to compensate a god tier CC!' 

People who hate Limbo obviously are fine with it. And will always say that anyone who says otherwise is just whining. I will say this though. Vaubam Bastille which now in essence on paper does the exact same thing as Stasis is on paper with a better duration count so again, I say that the duration cut was pretty dumb.

 

I would prefer them giving stasis duration at least 20 seconds base, but that's just me. I'm not expecting a full removal of the duration change but I think 20 (which would translate to like 40ish with mods) would feel slot more fluid for limbo players that are uncomfortable with it.

 

This is because unless you run natural talent (which before wasn't necessary) you're wasting a good like 3ish seconds of the ability to cast and recast anyway so 15 turns really into more like 12 etc. 

Just a thought that will probably get ignored.

I don't mind 20 seconds although I don't think the extra 5 seconds matter.

I recently used Limbo in  solo sortie 3 extermination in the void. No natural talent or durations mods on a rift torrent build. It was okay. Kinda fiddly but that's the kind of game play DE wants. They don't want you standing around while your abilities auto kill everything.

 

[LAD.Y]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I don't mind 20 seconds although I don't think the extra 5 seconds matter.

I recently used Limbo in  solo sortie 3 extermination in the void. No natural talent or durations mods on a rift torrent build. It was okay. Kinda fiddly but that's the kind of game play DE wants. They don't want you standing around while your abilities auto kill everything.

 

Limbo's abilities aren't designed to autokill everything XD. The damage on his kit is negliable at best for anything end game even with 'damage' builds and literally every part of his kit involves putting the enemy in the rift/dividing and conquering them. He's a CC frame. His abilities are meant to augment his kill potential via weapons. Either in small banish fights (which I personally don't find very mana efficient) or in giant mage bubble controls. Also cool that you did this? Lol. I solo sortie with Limbo like every day so no offense I'm...not like impressed? Or whatever. Like congrats for doing this. Good for you and your solo life. I approve #soloallday but like I know what this frame is capable of XD. I've played him since release. I don't need proof of this XD.

Anyway, like you said 5 extra seconds wouldn't change much but it would make the play smoother. Is it necessary? Probably not. Would it be a nice QOL adjustment? Definitely. That's all I'm saying. 15 seconds is like the base state of most CC skills in the game, like... r1 base... and while stasis is obviously powerful, it's also not the only move in the game that offers similar immobility (ie. bastille, Harrow Chains, Gara Vetrify etc). The only thing that makes it 'OP' is the fact that it's designed to work in a plane that everything outside of it won't effect you. But that's less to do with the ability itself and more to do with how Limbo's kit was designed to begin with. And while that same strength makes it so strong when used in conjunction w/ Banish/Cata, it's also a weakness, because as a Limbo you are FORCED to move an enemy into your domain in order to use it. Aka expend more energy (obviously compensated with his passives, but still worth pointing out) Otherwise it does nothing. 

Not saying that it's hard or bad that kit synergy is inside his kit, it's great, but at the same time cutting duration THAT much to me seems a bit 'meh' when there's already similar abilities that require less prep and energy and (now) last longer with less modding. 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

8 hours ago, LAD.Y said:

Limbo's abilities aren't designed to autokill everything XD. The damage on his kit is negliable at best for anything end game even with 'damage' builds and literally every part of his kit involves putting the enemy in the rift/dividing and conquering them. He's a CC frame. His abilities are meant to augment his kill potential via weapons. Either in small banish fights (which I personally don't find very mana efficient) or in giant mage bubble controls. Also cool that you did this? Lol. I solo sortie with Limbo like every day so no offense I'm...not like impressed? Or whatever. Like congrats for doing this. Good for you and your solo life. I approve #soloallday but like I know what this frame is capable of XD. I've played him since release. I don't need proof of this XD.

Anyway, like you said 5 extra seconds wouldn't change much but it would make the play smoother. Is it necessary? Probably not. Would it be a nice QOL adjustment? Definitely. That's all I'm saying. 15 seconds is like the base state of most CC skills in the game, like... r1 base... and while stasis is obviously powerful, it's also not the only move in the game that offers similar immobility (ie. bastille, Harrow Chains, Gara Vetrify etc). The only thing that makes it 'OP' is the fact that it's designed to work in a plane that everything outside of it won't effect you. But that's less to do with the ability itself and more to do with how Limbo's kit was designed to begin with. And while that same strength makes it so strong when used in conjunction w/ Banish/Cata, it's also a weakness, because as a Limbo you are FORCED to move an enemy into your domain in order to use it. Aka expend more energy (obviously compensated with his passives, but still worth pointing out) Otherwise it does nothing. 

Not saying that it's hard or bad that kit synergy is inside his kit, it's great, but at the same time cutting duration THAT much to me seems a bit 'meh' when there's already similar abilities that require less prep and energy and (now) last longer with less modding. 

Oh, the videos aren't for you. They're for everyone that thinks Limbo is just a mobile defense frame. These people would make suggestions about how to make Limbo better without even understanding the warframe. Very few would ever even consider him as a spy frame or a survival frame or even a DPS frame.

According to player base lore, when this warframe first came out, he was really bad. No one understood him and when in a pub, people would immediately consider the Limbo player a troll whether the player was intentional or didn't understand how to play the warframe. This made Limbo players play solo. Over time, those Limbo players that mastered "something different" would continue to play in solo. This caused Limbo's effectiveness in missions to be hidden from the public eyes because no one would literally see a Limbo in public.New players would just get hear say about how awful this warframe is. Such is the myth of Limbo.

I actually play him in pubs a lot. People seem to be getting use to him.

And just to give reference on how people don't understand Limbo, veteran players lime Tactical Potato even encourgae players to play him solo. Even iFlynn doesn't understand how his Cataclysm works and these guys are really old players.

Edited July 30, 2018 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[LAD.Y]

1 hour ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Oh, the videos aren't for you. They're for everyone that thinks Limbo is just a mobile defense frame. These people would make suggestions about how to make Limbo better without even understanding the warframe. Very few would ever even consider him as a spy frame or a survival frame or even a DPS frame.

According to player base lore, when this warframe first came out, he was really bad. No one understood him and when in a pub, people would immediately consider the Limbo player a troll whether the player was intentional or didn't understand how to play the warframe. This made Limbo players play solo. Over time, those Limbo players that mastered "something different" would continue to play in solo. This caused Limbo's effectiveness in missions to be hidden from the public eyes because no one would literally see a Limbo in public.New players would just get hear say about how awful this warframe is. Such is the myth of Limbo.

I actually play him in pubs a lot. People seem to be getting use to him.

I'll always solo/play squads with friends. Pubs almost turned me off entirely from the game so i'd rather not touch that toxicity with a 100 foot pole

 

[MendesL]

Hi man, I understand, at least part, of your frustration.
I'm not a old player, I just started to play last year, a little before PoE arrived.
I played with Limbo players before, I started thinking it was a bit annoying, but as time passed, I saw how limbo is incredible, and I might say it is a little op, even after rework.
That Cataclysm-Stasis combo is amazingly handy man, once I was trying to farm some cryotic, but low level missions just give you crappy rewards, so I searched for someone farming it too, and I found a player that get her Limbo and just keep ALL ENEMIES FAR from these excavators, we did a run on Hieracon. After more than an hour, we get out with a LOT of endo, a huge amount of cryotic, >> 4k polymer pack and almost  no effort at all.

I started playing it and I found it really amazing. The only thing I found annoying about it is that I need to be dashing around to use banish, hey man, I have my own dimension, I don't want to be out of it.
The Stasis duration doesn't get me angry, I just cast it double, since the energy buff in the rift is at least GOOD.
I see this rework as a good thing, it made limbo a less annoying to others, but without nerfing it at all. The "no more stopping bullets and inside cataclysm banish allies" mechanics made it a lot more enjoyable for the party and same time didn't made it a weak solo

[(PSN)psycofang]

On 2018-07-02 at 10:24 AM, AnGeL_KRoM said:

  I mean, what was the point of freezing bullets if enemies were also frozen??? 

Because special enemies/bosses were not frozen but their projectiles were. Other than that it was just meant as a draw back to his overwhelming CC.

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PS4)psycofang:

Because special enemies/bosses were not frozen but their projectiles were.

'were'? Is this not the case anymore? I thought only allied projectiles were made an exception.

It was a great way to fight bosses.

[mactrent]

33 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

'were'? Is this not the case anymore? I thought only allied projectiles were made an exception.

It was a great way to fight bosses.

This is still the case, and you are correct that allied projectiles are the exception; enemy projectiles are always frozen (except where not coded as projectiles, but we'll ignore those few).  It used to be a terrible way to fight bosses, unless it was a boss you planned to melee, in which case it just wasn't terribly helpful.  Now, you're able to shoot the boss while it's moving, and your bullets won't stay aimed at the place they used to be.  Definitely much improved.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

9 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Because special enemies/bosses were not frozen but their projectiles were. Other than that it was just meant as a draw back to his overwhelming CC.

Its nice that someone noticed its a double edged sword. All of Limbo's powers have draw backs. Its his gimmick. He can go invulnerable but he can't harm things. He can make enemies harmless but they can't be damaged. Imagine if Catabomb had a draw back, it would never have been removed. But instead of a draw back, it actually generated energy when it kills things.

Fortunately Stasis still has a draw back. Its the only ability that's virtually useless by itself. If there's nothing in the rift, it literally does nothing but waste Limbo's energy.

[(PSN)psycofang]

13 hours ago, Walkampf said:

were'? Is this not the case anymore? 

Not were as in past tense but were was used as to why old stasis was still useful with cataclysm for bosses that were always in reach but shot a lot.  Not all enemies were frozen, but their bullets were frozen when they themselves are still moving during stasis.