RNG Savior

[RedLila]

I think we've all been there, drop rate of X blueprint means we should have it in 6-7 runs, and 15 runs in we still don't have it. Its the nature of RNG and that grind is part of the gameplay cycle of Warframe and I wouldn't want to get rid of it but it would be nice if there was a hard cap on maximum runs to get a given blueprint when it comes to building frames so I had a suggestion for a possible in universe way of doing this that helps alleviate the RNG bad luck while at the same time doesn't eliminate the grind.

tldr: Allow part swaps at a 10:1 ratio. Example: Farming Saryn? Get 15 chasis and 5 systems and no neuroptics after 20 runs? You could swap 10 of those extra chasis for 1 neuroptic.

implementation suggestion: To prevent abuse of this mechanic and its use to end run around normal game grind/achievement I'd make this a service Baro Ki'teer offers. Automatically that means its only available periodically. Second, this is Baro we're talking about and what's Baro with out Dukats? So realistically I'd say trade in would be 10:1 and the Dukats relative to the rarity of the part you're trading for.

Exclusions: I would only apply this to non-prime parts for warframes. No Prime frames, no prime weapons, etc. Could potentially be used for things like wraith or snipetron where the parts come from invasions.

Benefit: It puts a mitigating factor in place for RNG hell while at the same time making any given farm run feel less wasted even if you get a part you don't need since you know its progress toward what you do need.

What does everyone think?

Edited July 3, 2018 by RedLila

[CalculatedMurderMachine]

This seems interesting.

[RedLila]

Thanks! I'll also note the prime exclusion is also intended to prevent this from interfering with the the Bazaar's Plat economy

[Celthric317]

Only problem I see with this is that you could just farm a ton of the common prime parts and exchange it for the rare and ultra rare parts...

[RedLila]

2 minutes ago, Celthric317 said:

Only problem I see with this is that you could just farm a ton of the common prime parts and exchange it for the rare and ultra rare parts...

I specifically mentioned you would exclude prime parts from this in the exclusions section. Prime parts already have a non-RNG method of acquisition via the Bazaar.

[RedLila]

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

But then you'd have no incentive to buy a frame via  platinum.

That's why I set the threshold so high. If you have the worst luck in the world you'd have guaranteed after 21 runs if the blueprint is purchasable and if you need to farm the main blueprint too it goes up to 31. These are still very high run requirements for a given frame. Given that most players buying a frame are doing so in the face of an average acquisition time (6-7) runs I don't see setting an upper threshold like this as much beyond a quality of life thing for people who want to earn the frame. (this is coming from someone who gave up on grinding Ivara and bought her set)

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

21 hours ago, RedLila said:

 

implementation suggestion: To prevent abuse of this mechanic and its use to end run around normal game grind/achievement I'd make this a service Baro Ki'teer offers. Automatically that means its only available periodically. Second, this is Baro we're talking about and what's Baro with out Dukats? So realistically I'd say trade in would be 10:1 and the Dukats relative to the rarity of the part you're trading for.
 

 

Yes the rng gods have frowned upon me quite a few times since I've started. To the point where I've called it quits for the day a couple of times. 

Usually won't take me a week for a normal frame if I'm actively working on it (so far), and that's going to be the average time for Baro to show up (time to wait ranges from 2 weeks to one day; average one week). 

Also as far as I recall the drop rate for most boss-drop frame components is the same for each. What you think is rare because you're on the 20th run for it, I may have gotten 5 of in the first 6 runs I did. So saying scale ducats with rarity... Doesn't work. 

 

Yeah the rng gods are fickle, and often ruthless, but at the end of the day, we know that there's something that can appease their wrath: the grind. 

[RedLila]

8 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

For older frames yes. For newer frames and worst example Khora you need an average of 10 hours of playing just elite sanctuary onslaught to get all her parts.

It took me 14 hours to get all her parts.

Ivara is actually super easy to farm and has a reasonable drop rate. A spy mission takes like 3-5 minutes to complete for all 3 data extractions and she has a 7% drop chance. So that's fine.

Valid point and perhaps that could also be a mitigating factor. Frames have to have been out for awhile before this becomes a thing. Again though, this isn't meant to make farming easier, just to put a hard cap to escape RNG hell for the truly unlucky.

[RedLila]

6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Usually won't take me a week for a normal frame if I'm actively working on it (so far), and that's going to be the average time for Baro to show up (time to wait ranges from 2 weeks to one day; average one week). 

Also as far as I recall the drop rate for most boss-drop frame components is the same for each. What you think is rare because you're on the 20th run for it, I may have gotten 5 of in the first 6 runs I did. So saying scale ducats with rarity... Doesn't work. 

 

Yeah the rng gods are fickle, and often ruthless, but at the end of the day, we know that there's something that can appease their wrath: the grind. 

I'm not suggesting this to make the grind easier or take it away, hence my high threshold on exchanging. This is pretty exclusively just mean to be an RNG hell escape hatch.
As to the ducats varying with rarity, I haven't done a run through of all frames to determine the rarity of all but I know of at least a few where it varies. Potential other mitigating factors might be, for frames whose parts are spread across multiple tiers that the ducat cost scales with tier difference. X - (y*(traded in tier-target part tier)) or something similar would evaluate to cost less on trade downs and more on trade ups.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, RedLila said:

I'm not suggesting this to make the grind easier or take it away, hence my high threshold on exchanging. This is pretty exclusively just mean to be an RNG hell escape hatch.
As to the ducats varying with rarity, I haven't done a run through of all frames to determine the rarity of all but I know of at least a few where it varies. Potential other mitigating factors might be, for frames whose parts are spread across multiple tiers that the ducat cost scales with tier difference. X - (y*(traded in tier-target part tier)) or something similar would evaluate to cost less on trade downs and more on trade ups.

I did not suggest that you were. I pointed out that I consider the time taken waiting for Baro to be a bit more than I would be willing to wait. Too much time would be already invested to just say meh and wait for the week to pass. 

[peterc3]

On 2018-07-03 at 6:17 PM, RedLila said:

These are still very high run requirements for a given frame.

But it is a guarantee.

Why would you buy something when you know with 100% certainty you will be able to run X missions and get the new shiny?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

17 hours ago, peterc3 said:

But it is a guarantee.

Why would you buy something when you know with 100% certainty you will be able to run X missions and get the new shiny?

For most part drops there is currently no 100% certainty. It's like how a coin flip is pretty much 50-50 heads and tails, but if you randomly flip one, there's always a chance (about 1/16 I think) it could come up heads 4 times in a row. 

 

It's vanishingly unlikely to happen, but I really wouldn't like to be the unlucky guy who's gotten 39+ drops and is lacking a part for Rhino. 

[RedLila]

20 hours ago, peterc3 said:

But it is a guarantee.

Why would you buy something when you know with 100% certainty you will be able to run X missions and get the new shiny?

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

For most part drops there is currently no 100% certainty. It's like how a coin flip is pretty much 50-50 heads and tails, but if you randomly flip one, there's always a chance (about 1/16 I think) it could come up heads 4 times in a row. 

 

It's vanishingly unlikely to happen, but I really wouldn't like to be the unlucky guy who's gotten 39+ drops and is lacking a part for Rhino. 

This is the entire point of this kind of system. Its not perfect as I've laid it out as is clear from this conversation. Figuring out the sweet spot on cost vs time investment is something DE would need to do but i think, conceptually at least, a system that prevents that 39+ drop scenario from happening is a good idea.