Why Exclusivity Is Important.

[Xylia]

Well here's the thing. I still have clanmates, with the map fully unlocked, with over 20 runs in the void, that still have yet to see Hornet Strike drop. This being an essential drop, kind of ridiculous(over 250 runs). Having had this happen, she can pretty much expect to NEVER use a secondary beyond level 30 content. Having it from the beginning, at the very least you can apply cores to it.

 

Also by the time you get to Earth, I'm sure you've either bought or crafted yourself a new weapon...even if it's not a big amazing toy, you've got something better than the starter set, unless you rush straight there and are just stubborn about it.

 

Also, maybe I'm different from most people, but I solo'd/only played with friends until level 30+ content, which even then I only went online when I felt it necessary(defense/mobile defense/assassination). Heck I still follow that playstyle, only going online when I do d/md and don't have a friend available(note: a).

 

Actually, no.

 

The only two weapons you can craft by Earth are Orthos and Cronus, because EVERYTHING needs one or more of the following:

 

Nano Spores (Saturn)

Plastids (Saturn)

Salvage (Mars/Jupiter)

Gallium (Mars)

Neurodes (Earth)

Rubedo (Earth)

 

I think the Orthos and Cronus are the only two weapons in the game that don't need one of the above.

 

See, what they did, is they gated ALL craftable weapons (except Orthos and Cronus) behind Lv25 content. This means no Armor Ignore, period, until then.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Xylia

[Xylia]

Just to prove I'm not talking out of my &#! here:

 

Boltor: Salvage, Neurodes

Burston: Nano Spores

Gorgon: Salvage

Grakata (lol): Salvage

Hind: Salvage

Latron: Plastids

Sobek: Salvage

Vulkar: Salvage

Paris: Plastids, Nano Spores

 

So basically, your ONLY choice in Primaries are MK1, Braton, and Strun until you get to lv25 stuff.

[Ghobe]

Dagnabbit....they moved Saturn again.

 

HOWEVER, the Cronus is still an upgrade over the Skana, and the Orthos is a big upgrade over it. You can also straight up buy: Strun(upgrade), Braton(direct upgrade), Aklato(upgrade), Lex(upgrade), and Sicarus(upgrade).

 

Though I don't really know how strong of a point this is. I mean...is this about having a new weapon before Hek? Because keep in mind you can enter Jupiter before facing him for Salvage, and you can get Neurodes in the runs leading up to him.

 

And for the record....Jupiter and Saturn are both great grounds for leveling new(unranked) weapons, so if that's the concern as well...I'm going to call it learn2aim. Point being that they're both higher level than Earth, yet still safe to bring unranked weaponry to.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Ghobe

[Rottae]

The problem right now imo, isn't that the game is to hard or to easy, it's more about how godly we become so quickly.

Anyone here who have done some counting on how insane the damage gets as soon as you get 2-3 points into a damage mod, hell then stacking it all. The numbers become insane as soon as the players have their mods up and running.

Problem here is that they are trying to balance against an atleast 1000% upgrade to all weaponry, but they can't take for granted everyone at any mastery or any amount of time play will have those mods, Leading to a stupid difficulty that is to hard for people without mods that are upgraded (upgraded is important, just having unranked serration or elemental mod on your rifle won't do anything, but stacking a bunch of level 3-4 mods on, hell yeah you are kicking everythings butt. (10-15% damage isn't that much when enemies gain atleast twice that amount in every stat every level)

 

Mods shouldn't be 100% scaling for every level (it is never worth it to not try to max out a mod before going for the next one, because well, mod cost to effect ratio). What it does is leading to unneccessary power creep that just shoots DE in the foot.

We are gods compared to enemies, do we have to be? Couldn't we just be elite or hero versions of them. Maybe 300+ health and 300+ shields should be loads of HP., since starting players have 200? Maybe a damage with 20 damage shouldn't be unviable just because a weapon with 28 damage have so much better scaling with ranked serration + Elemental spam?

If mods where doing less (not base, but levelling em) we wouldn't scale to death, which is keeping this game from becoming hard.


Sorry for any typos, It's very early in sweden

 

[Xylia]

Dagnabbit....they moved Saturn again.

 

HOWEVER, the Cronus is still an upgrade over the Skana, and the Orthos is a big upgrade over it. You can also straight up buy: Strun(upgrade), Braton(direct upgrade), Aklato(upgrade), Lex(upgrade), and Sicarus(upgrade).

 

Though I don't really know how strong of a point this is. I mean...is this about having a new weapon before Hek? Because keep in mind you can enter Jupiter before facing him for Salvage, and you can get Neurodes in the runs leading up to him.

 

And for the record....Jupiter and Saturn are both great grounds for leveling new(unranked) weapons, so if that's the concern as well...I'm going to call it learn2aim. Point being that they're both higher level than Earth, yet still safe to bring unranked weaponry to.

 

The problem is trying to GET to Jupiter or Saturn.

 

Earth is a Hellhole of Napalms and Scorpions EVERYWHERE, and... well my Newbie Account doesn't have a single Redirection because it just WILL NOT DROP period. Some 900+ grineer kills, still don't have one. Unlocked most of Venus, still don't have one.

 

And trust me, that crap is going to kill me when I get to Earth with that account. Napalms? haha, doesn't matter where I am I'm taking 50+ splash damage. While there's scorpions shooting hooks at me and my modless Braton takes entire clips to kill that Napalm while I'm taking fire and having to dodge scorpions' hooks. You don't last long when you only have 200 shields if each Napalm Blast is doing 40-50 damage. If a Scorpion grabs you with a hook, you are guaranteed to take Health Damage by the time you stand back up, etc, etc, etc.

 

I hate what they did to Earth. It used to be a decent place to solo. Now it is a Hellhole.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Xylia

[Ghobe]

I dunno...Napalms are an extreme rarity for me to find...anywhere. And I've farmed a lot of earth in my day believe me. Scorpions...I've never really had the issue everyone complains about. Maybe it's because I stay aware, maybe it's because I prioritize them, but they've never been a big issue.

 

Though I still believe we should probably hand mods over to the newbies, maybe not when they first make the character, but we could when they accomplish certain goals(beating Vor for the first time for example).

Edited August 21, 2013 by Ghobe

[Xylia]

I dunno...Napalms are an extreme rarity for me to find...anywhere. And I've farmed a lot of earth in my day believe me. Scorpions...I've never really had the issue everyone complains about. Maybe it's because I stay aware, maybe it's because I prioritize them, but they've never been a big issue.

 

Though I still believe we should probably hand mods over to the newbies, maybe not when they first make the character, but we could when they accomplish certain goals(beating Vor for the first time for example).

 

When's the last time you farmed Earth? Has it been after u9?

 

Or maybe it is my computer? I'll find that out here pretty soon, I've got parts coming to me so I can build a new tower.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

I tried to read your OP And all I saw was a wall of wank.

 

I mean really, ragnaros? S#&$ was easy.

[Meatuchu]

I dunno about 40 people, but I've thought 8 man missions would be pretty cool.

The raid mission types name disappointed me.

[Llyssa]

You guys, about the mats for making stuff by the time you're on earth: You *do* know that someone else can take you to a mission you've not yet unlocked, right?

 

As some people have the whole map, a tiny bit of social interaction should do heaps of good for you.

 

You do plan on interacting with someone at some point, right?

[Shion963]

Actually DE_Steve and DE_Rebecca (I am talking about DE official staff who would know) have said that the game *engine* cant support more than 4 players + enemies.  That is why the dojo has no AI.  So that there is nothing to break there.  In normal missions the AI will break because the game engine cant handle it.

That is directly from DE, so please take your prattling elsewhere where you *might* know what you are talking about.

The engine itself cant support fully working spawns or AI.  Even on a maxed out gaming rig if you have 6 to 8 people you see the AI breaking, even if there is no lag for anyone involved.

So yes, it is the game engine not being able to support more people.  it has *nothing* to do with needing dedicated servers.

Please think or, god forbid, learn about what you're going to say before you say it.

 

Here's DE_Skree's explanation about 4++ sessions, and why they can't do it without changing too much of the game. (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46443-a-war-like-alert-mission-and-sandbox-like-maps/#entry472315)

[...]

It is always a balancing act developing larger environments. (Complexity/Quality vs Performance)

 

Being a PC game, Warframe players use a spectrum of computers of varying specs. Some have amazing high-end rigs, while others do not. The line must be drawn somewhere, so PC software usually has a minimum-spec, and should ensure reasonable performance on atleast such a system. Games catering only to high-end systems often have a much less merciful minimum-spec. We all know the feeling of having to upgrade our PC's to play some games, it can be frustrating!

 

In MP games, perf becomes multiplicatively questionable when large numbers of players gather together onscreen in one spot along with enemies or npcs. These combine to form the perfect storm of framerate nightmares for some gamers, while others will receive only minimal slowdown.

 

In MMOs, density-wise, larger environments are often sparsely decorated and said art is often very large to help fill the spaces.

Ninja traversal usually calls for tighter, smaller areas, chock-full of interesting geometry and gameplay options, ensuring enemies have no escape! As Level Designers, we usually want to give Tenno these creative gameplay options, allowing them to use more than just brute force or minmaxing stats to deal with situations.

 

Although large environments are the staple of some MMOs; dont forget that their devs combat performance issues by making sacrifices. Art is often simplistic; polycounts are lower, textures are smaller, shaders are simpler and things LOD aggressively. This is usually mitigated by allowing the camera to zoom out extremely far, to the point where these sacrifices are less impactful.

 

On Warframe, we encourage interesting environmental traversal (ninja flips, wall running, sliding etc). This gameplay is best featured in a tighter, closer camera angle, and when player cameras are close up, we try to keep things looking good. Ninjas have to look good! That being said, efficiency and optimization of game art *is* important, we are constantly trying to optimize things when possible. Ninjas have to be fast too!

[...]

[ClockworkSpectre]

While I don't necessarily agree with the OP on everything, especially using WoW as an example of a good game.... blechhh.  The game seriously needs some work on adding more than just a constant grind.  While we have Dojos for social interaction, people rarely use them as there is little point other than to pop in a pick up a BP from one of the labs or something.  The dueling and obstacle course gets stale ridiculously fast.  

 

Yes we need a MUCH better lobby system, and I think DE is working on this and will have something for us in the near future.  And the same goes for the abysmal chat system the game currently has. 

 

As for larger scale missions.. yes this is something the game desperately needs, but I am not sure the game as it is built right now could handle it.  The peer to peer hosting just isn't sufficient, it can barely handle 4 man missions right now.  Honestly the game needs dedicated servers, but I can't see that happening any time soon. 

 

Also, I really really really wish the DE team would stop calling this game an MMO, its just not.  Its a multi player co-op at most.  I would love for it to actually be a MMO, but it would have a long way to go before it could get there. 

Edited August 21, 2013 by ClockworkSpectre

[Xylia]

You guys, about the mats for making stuff by the time you're on earth: You *do* know that someone else can take you to a mission you've not yet unlocked, right?

 

As some people have the whole map, a tiny bit of social interaction should do heaps of good for you.

 

You do plan on interacting with someone at some point, right?

 

So basically, your answer is "Get Carried!", right? Because if you zip right to Saturn while still on Venus without proper mods, you are being carried. And even then... if you get carried through 1 mission, you probably won't have enough resources and you're probably not powerful enough to survive doing it on your own. If you can't handle Earth, what makes you think you can handle Saturn?

 

I don't know about you, but I hate having to be carried to get anywhere in Warframe.

 

It is just bad design to force this upon newbies. And for someone to carry you into a mission you don't otherwise have access to, you have to be in their group already. And that's assuming you don't have NAT issues, etc that prevent you from grouping up in the first place.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Xylia

[TwiceDead]

Screw exclusivity. 

The fact that the top 100 contributers(no-lifers) out of a million-plus players in a particular event received Primed Chamber; which is superior in every way when compared to Charged Chamber, a mod that does the same thing for less damage and more cost is bad enough.

 

The game already forces you to be in a clan to get a hold of the 'Good' weapons, which is bullS#&$. Then again I guess it's about incentives. An incentive to join a clan would be the weapons you can get a hold of. Although I think it is idiotic, I also realize that it works... Which is a shame. 

[Xylia]

Screw exclusivity. 

The fact that the top 100 contributers(no-lifers) out of a million-plus players in a particular event received Primed Chamber; which is superior in every way when compared to Charged Chamber, a mod that does the same thing for less damage and more cost is bad enough.

 

The game already forces you to be in a clan to get a hold of the 'Good' weapons, which is bullS#&$. Then again I guess it's about incentives. An incentive to join a clan would be the weapons you can get a hold of. Although I think it is idiotic, I also realize that it works... Which is a shame. 

 

#1: Don't forget you can STACK Primed and Charged Chamber. It isn't bad enough that Primed is, what again? 4x? better than Charged... but you can also stack them too for ridiculous overpowered results.

 

#2: Don't forget, you can totally make a clan of one and the material costs for building rooms aren't that bad for a Ghost Clan. It is just you need lots of Forma to do this yourself, plus the Forma to make the weapon, plus all the Plastids and Research Materials to get it done too. It is, however, possible solo with some work.

[whitejackale]

Well.... Where to begin?

I wish that you never begun.

 

1. World of Warcraft is absolutely nothing like Warframe.

To compare the two is an attempt to "Play Warcraft" in a different game. Research the articles about such a psychological phenominon. It's going to take a generation to undo the damage WoW has done to people.

It does not matter if warcraft is anything like warframe. Comparing world of warcraft to warframe does not mean that he wants to "'play warcraft' in a different game." 

 

2. Skinner box, Power Creep, False Sense of Exclusivity.

Oh gee, you were the first one to kill Ragnaros? Woop De Doo. I'm sure you, and the other 39 people who abandoned real life to accomplish such a "feat" are quite proud of yourselves. However, once you got that "exlusive loot" what did you use it for? Oh right, killing another boss with bigger numbers. Then everyone else got their exclusive loot, then bigger numbers were released, and all the while you were being conditioned and brain washed to keep shelling out money every single month on the same game with different numbers.

Why does any of this matter?

 

3. Inability to move on from your WoW addiction: Ie. This thread

That you would attack the original poster like this is a demonstration of your lack of critical thinking skills.

 

4. Duel "arenas" exist. Massive areas to show off your epeen exist. We call them Dojos.

I am sure that the original poster knows this. He is asking for something different from what we currently have. 

 

Edit:

 

3:30 - All you need to know about WoW's "success."

An opinion continues to be an opinion when it is uploaded to youtube.

Why reply to someone if you are not going to address the arguments that they put forth? Your whole reply is unreasonable.

[ThePresident777]

Yes, you are the most special snowflake in the world, yes you are.  Koo chee koo chee koooooo.

[Ghobe]

Xyl,

 

Just did a series of runs on Earth using aklato. Had no trouble dishing out enough damage to kill everything....still didn't see any Napalms. Only things used was the aklato(started with unranked no return, eventually evolved to rank 4 no return with rank 1 hornet strike) and slash dash(max). Never had a concern for ammo nor energy. Though I suppose it's worth noting my accuracy was over 90% in every run and my headshot ratio was over 75% of my kills.

 

For reference: Chargers took 3-4 shots, most grineer were 1-2 shots, ancients took upwards of 7.

 

As to damage, the only time I ever felt like I was in danger was if I let a melee enemy get to me, otherwise it wasn't that big of a deal.

 

So to sum it up, Earth is not a big deal until the fight with Hek, at which point you're kind of expected to have a full group, since he is a boss.

[icanhaztehcookie]

We will most likely see nothing more than 4 players in one game. Tenno are on the verge of extinction so they're rare to see, that would just be thrown out the window if we had a game where more than 6 Tenno per game would be overkill and not very lore driven. ( this excludes the dojo for the sake of the game having more interaction with clans. )

 

Your idea of having more than 4 players wouldn't fit in anywhere in Warframe's universe. A Cell is dangerous enough as it is. This is a 4 player Co-op multiplayer, not a 24 man Raid MMORPG.

[whitejackale]

We will most likely see nothing more than 4 players in one game. Tenno are on the verge of extinction so they're rare to see, that would just be thrown out the window if we had a game where more than 6 Tenno per game would be overkill and not very lore driven. ( this excludes the dojo for the sake of the game having more interaction with clans. )

 

Your idea of having more than 4 players wouldn't fit in anywhere in Warframe's universe. A Cell is dangerous enough as it is. This is a 4 player Co-op multiplayer, not a 24 man Raid MMORPG.

Where in the lore does it say that the tenno are limited to 4-man parties? "Being on the verge of extinction" does not mean that the tenno are limited to performing missions in parties of four. The dojos and community events show that the tenno are not so close to extinction that they can only complete missions with 4-man parties. 

[Xylia]

Xyl,

 

Just did a series of runs on Earth using aklato. Had no trouble dishing out enough damage to kill everything....still didn't see any Napalms. Only things used was the aklato(started with unranked no return, eventually evolved to rank 4 no return with rank 1 hornet strike) and slash dash(max). Never had a concern for ammo nor energy. Though I suppose it's worth noting my accuracy was over 90% in every run and my headshot ratio was over 75% of my kills.

 

For reference: Chargers took 3-4 shots, most grineer were 1-2 shots, ancients took upwards of 7.

 

As to damage, the only time I ever felt like I was in danger was if I let a melee enemy get to me, otherwise it wasn't that big of a deal.

 

So to sum it up, Earth is not a big deal until the fight with Hek, at which point you're kind of expected to have a full group, since he is a boss.

 

I'd love to know what kind of magical computer that you have that does not give you Napalms.... WTF.

 

I get them every other room on E Prime. Tell you what, I'll take my main account's Rhino in there and I'll take a screenshot of every one I see.

 

Unless, of course, that was hotfixed in 9.5.2. or 9.6 and they didn't say anything as I stopped going to Earth around 9.4 or thereabouts because of that crap. But after seeing that "Commander Hell" on Apollodorus a couple days ago, I have my doubts.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Xylia

[Ghobe]

I dunno man...Napalms have always been rare for me, like I said before. Commanders used to be really common, but they've gotten pretty rare as of late too...in fact...I haven't seen one in days now that I think about it...and I can't tell you the last time I ran into a Napalm...probably weeks...

[Sasquatchias]

I feel like 75% of this thread is a bunch of neckbeards arguing poorly.

[Xylia]

@Ghobe:

 

Did two runs of E Prime just now.

 

Here's Napalm #1, on Run #1:

 

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/633041457125640880/A19686D1C7A44E15686BDC358DF07CCDEFAE4F00/

 

Here's Napalm #2, on Run #2:

 

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/633041457125639427/92069AA132F16BA0248255BE296785AB56E97948/

 

Here's Napalm #3, on Run #2:

 

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/633041457125637540/2471FA6C82C56EFF0B186180D3AD058BCB6A864E/

 

You can clearly see they are Level 9-10.

 

Now, it did look like they toned them down some; I was seeing 8-10 in one mission back during 9.4-ish, but tonight  I only saw 1 on 1 mission and 2 on the other (or I could have just gotten extremely lucky to only see 1-2), but still. ONE napalm would be deadly as all crap to a newbie, because these guys do 40+ damage with their splash damage that is nigh-unavoidable that hits you through walls.

 

Also, the fact that I had a Hind and Dual Heat Swords meant that I could kill these guys quickly and move on; I was only getting about 100 kills or so per mission. If I were a newbie who took longer to kill mobs, I'd probably be spending 3-5 minutes more in the mission which might give the Napalms more time to spawn.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Xylia

[Ghobe]

I don't really remember ever being slowed down so much by a Napalm. High priority target is high priority. Also with a starting out character this is a situation where your skills come as a priority. A slash dash will immediately remove his shield and take a good chunk of his health, not to mention get you away from any fire, as well as cleaning up any other enemies in the path.

 

Also for the record: each of my runs had 100-150 enemies in them so yea...I'm thinking you're cursed.