Why Exclusivity Is Important.

[Xylia]

I don't really remember ever being slowed down so much by a Napalm. High priority target is high priority. Also with a starting out character this is a situation where your skills come as a priority. A slash dash will immediately remove his shield and take a good chunk of his health, not to mention get you away from any fire, as well as cleaning up any other enemies in the path.

 

Also for the record: each of my runs had 100-150 enemies in them so yea...I'm thinking you're cursed.

 

Well, superstition aside, I'm wondering if it has something to do with my computer and/or its hardware/OS generating odd RNG?

 

We know the levels are created through heavy use of RNG, and I would assume the enemies are populated by RNG as well.

 

I have 9 Flow Mods, but 0 Focus Mods, I've gotten like 8 Hell's Chambers, but only 1 Split Chamber and 2 Barrel Diffusions in my time of playing Warframe...

 

I'll put that theory to the test, soon! I have new computer parts coming; I should have the new computer up and running within the week and we'll see what happens when I play on my new computer.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Xylia

[drakwon]

We will most likely see nothing more than 4 players in one game. Tenno are on the verge of extinction so they're rare to see, that would just be thrown out the window if we had a game where more than 6 Tenno per game would be overkill and not very lore driven. ( this excludes the dojo for the sake of the game having more interaction with clans. )

 

Your idea of having more than 4 players wouldn't fit in anywhere in Warframe's universe. A Cell is dangerous enough as it is. This is a 4 player Co-op multiplayer, not a 24 man Raid MMORPG.

They barely have any lore and no where does it say they are restricted to groups of 4. The only reason you are currently restricted to groups of four is because of local hosting which typically isn't stable over 4 people. Its hardly even stable with 4 given the internet and computing power of some people.

The point of the thread is to show everyone running around with the coolest looking, best stat items in the makes those items uninteresting.

[whitejackale]

They barely have any lore and no where does it say they are restricted to groups of 4. The only reason you are currently restricted to groups of four is because of local hosting which typically isn't stable over 4 people. Its hardly even stable with 4 given the internet and computing power of some people.

The point of the thread is to show everyone running around with the coolest looking, best stat items in the makes those items uninteresting.

I feel like the ideas that the original poster put up would help warframe be a lot more enjoyable if they are implemented correctly.

 

1) A place in which the community as a whole can interact and show off their cool gear would be interesting.

 

2) In order for the "showing off" to matter, there would need to be difficult content that gives out really cool gear. It does not need to have better statistics. It can simply be special skins for your weapons, warframes, and sentinels. Or cool special effects when you use abilities.

 

3) I think that the most important thing that we need to adopt from world of warcraft, and pve games in general, is the endgame content that can be quite difficult at times for a number of different reasons. The key words here are "difficult endgame content."

[drakwon]

I hate this argument so much. It's not ok for an "elitist"(good player looking for a challenge) to push their ideals on everyone else, but that same "elitist" has to choke down and just deal with every suggestion coming from the casual crowd. And what do they come forward with after that? "let's leave it to a majority vote", yea...because casuals make up 90% of the playerbase...I'm sure that's balanced way to go about it. Quite frankly as an "elitist"(which is about the nicest thing I've been called in the past month), I love to be challenged, and I love to have something not everyone else does. It's a great feeling, especially when it's something supplied by the developer. I hate games where everyone can do everything because it's "just challenging enough". When the reality is, it's just putting the square box into the square hole....while I want something where you put the square box into the square hole and the square hole is dangling on a piano wire over a lake of lava defended by a pair of dragons with tripwires attached to c4 everywhere, and the hole is only open for 0.2 seconds of every 23 seconds. But if I got that, within moments of it being released there will be an immense outcry from the casual crowd that "it's too hard" because they have to actually apply skill, thought, reaction time, etc...and god forbid there be a reward behind that, whether it's aesthetic, a title, an achievement...and if the reward actually affects gameplay? Oh lordy, DE would have to take the forums down to relieve pressure. I mean hell, could you imagine the outcry alone if in order to make the Volt frame you had to successfully complete the Clan dojo's obstacle course in under 1 minute? Hell in under 2 minutes? I bet there'd be outcry even if it was in under 10 minutes(the casual section of my clan can not complete the course in under 10 minutes, moving platforms so hard apparently....as I jump over 4 at once). I hate that games are completely controlled by casual crowds. "If you want difficulty go play dark souls"....dark souls is not hard. "Then you've never played it", actually I have. "Well the game shouldn't be balanced around you", that's not what I'm asking for, I'm asking that content exists that is designed for us, rather than you for once.

 

...I'm sorry I appear to have ranted...but my point remains. Casuals get everything, "elitists" must suffer.

good post well said.

[whitejackale]

I feel like 75% of this thread is a bunch of neckbeards arguing poorly.

Couldn't agree more. It is such a waste of time when people lack the reading comprehension skills to understand what they are replying to. I almost feel sad when people decide to reply without ever reading the whole content of what they are replying to.

 

On a sidenote, how dare you make fun of people's beautiful manes. Shame on you.

[drakwon]

Here's DE_Skree's explanation about 4++ sessions, and why they can't do it without changing too much of the game. (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46443-a-war-like-alert-mission-and-sandbox-like-maps/#entry472315)

 This is why games that feature a lot of players on screen offer a lot of video options. Hes basically saying, it would be hard for us to have more than four people because we want the game to look pretty.  If history teaches us anything people prefer game play over graphics. You can paint a turd gold but well......its still a.  You know the rest.

[drakwon]

Well, superstition aside, I'm wondering if it has something to do with my computer and/or its hardware/OS generating odd RNG?

 

We know the levels are created through heavy use of RNG, and I would assume the enemies are populated by RNG as well.

 

I have 9 Flow Mods, but 0 Focus Mods, I've gotten like 8 Hell's Chambers, but only 1 Split Chamber and 2 Barrel Diffusions in my time of playing Warframe...

 

I'll put that theory to the test, soon! I have new computer parts coming; I should have the new computer up and running within the week and we'll see what happens when I play on my new computer.

The code generating you enemies, level layout and item drops have nothing to do with your computer hardware. However I will say that it seems to be programmed in such a way that each person will be limited access to at least 1 rare mod in order to keep them playing the game.

 

I have I think 300 hours with no flow mods,and I primarily have been killing corpus, but multiples of every other mods.

[Sweetchuck]

This is why games that feature a lot of players on screen offer a lot of video options. Hes basically saying, it would be hard for us to have more than four people because we want the game to look pretty.  If history teaches us anything people prefer game play over graphics. You can paint a turd gold but well......its still a.  You know the rest.

That's not the game they're making, though. That's like saying "Left 4 Dead is a good game, but it would be so much better with 40 people instead of 4."

Nope. That would suck. I don't even want to know what the the sound of 40 simultaneous Tenno weapons and powers sounds like. Four people is plenty. If I want to play a F2P game with more than three folks, I'll go play Neverwinter.

[Shion963]

 This is why games that feature a lot of players on screen offer a lot of video options. Hes basically saying, it would be hard for us to have more than four people because we want the game to look pretty.  If history teaches us anything people prefer game play over graphics. You can paint a turd gold but well......its still a.  You know the rest.

In other games, pipes on the walls, rocks faces, are all just idle geometry. But Warframe has Wallrunning, and those geometries dictate how far we can wallrun, and all that fun stuff.

 

IMHO what Skree meant to say was not just preferring to making it to look pretty, but functional. They could create a massive empty bowl arena, disable wallrunning, disable powers, and put 30 players in it, but won't because it will no longer be Warframe.

[Shion963]

The code generating you enemies, level layout and item drops have nothing to do with your computer hardware.

 

Well it runs on our Hardware. People with stupidly fast CPU and a top-of-the-line GPU can shrug off processing and displaying massive open areas with 40 tenno running around and sound-quaking everything, but a mid-range would probably die halfway loading the map.

 

However I will say that it seems to be programmed in such a way that each person will be limited access to at least 1 rare mod in order to keep them playing the game. I have I think 300 hours with no flow mods,and I primarily have been killing corpus, but multiples of every other mods.

 

Whoa there, conspiracy warning! Flow is rare for everyone, and not because of some sleazy megacorporation plot to get players hooked. Rare mods are rare, uncommons are uncommons. We shouldn't be getting Rares every mission, because it's supposed to be rare.

 

Remember that they've just updated Drop-Tables so that every enemy type has its own drops, and until we see the datamined table there's no knowing WHICH enemy will drop Flow. Even if the RNG says "Next mod will be Rare!", the enemy that you kill next determines WHICH Rare drops because of the 'singled' drop tables.

[drakwon]

That's not the game they're making, though. That's like saying "Left 4 Dead is a good game, but it would be so much better with 40 people instead of 4."

Nope. That would suck. I don't even want to know what the the sound of 40 simultaneous Tenno weapons and powers sounds like. Four people is plenty. If I want to play a F2P game with more than three folks, I'll go play Neverwinter.

Sorry to brake it to you but they aren't making the game to cater to you, and the majority of their demographic prefer larger groups.  You fail to realize the problem they are desperately trying to solve, which is burn out, and the thing is if say Ambulas dropped rare blueprints and was hard to kill it wouldn't even be an issue right now. The main reason he isn't hard to kill is because scripting a boss encounter for 4 people and trying to balance and retain difficulty is nearly impossible because the likely hood of human error is far lower.

[drakwon]

Well it runs on our Hardware. People with stupidly fast CPU and a top-of-the-line GPU can shrug off processing and displaying massive open areas with 40 tenno running around and sound-quaking everything, but a mid-range would probably die halfway loading the map.

What does this have to do with me telling the guy who's getting new computer parts in hopes he will get different drops that his new hardware has no effect of the code of the game itself.

 

Well it runs on our Hardware. People with stupidly fast CPU and a top-of-the-line GPU can shrug off processing and displaying massive open areas with 40 tenno running around and sound-quaking everything, but a mid-range would probably die halfway loading the map.

 

 

Whoa there, conspiracy warning! Flow is rare for everyone, and not because of some sleazy megacorporation plot to get players hooked. Rare mods are rare, uncommons are uncommons. We shouldn't be getting Rares every mission, because it's supposed to be rare.

 

Remember that they've just updated Drop-Tables so that every enemy type has its own drops, and until we see the datamined table there's no knowing WHICH enemy will drop Flow. Even if the RNG says "Next mod will be Rare!", the enemy that you kill next determines WHICH Rare drops because of the 'singled' drop tables.

 

Not really a conspiracy just an observation that many people I talk to never get at least 1 of the core mods but seem to get plenty of the rest.

[whitejackale]

Here's DE_Skree's explanation about 4++ sessions, and why they can't do it without changing too much of the game. (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46443-a-war-like-alert-mission-and-sandbox-like-maps/#entry472315)

I have played games that are just as detailed as warframe, or even more detailed, that allow dozens or hundreds of players to be in the same area at the same time. We do not need hundreds of players to be doing the same missions though. I would be happy with 8/16man "raids" that are actually challenging.

[Sweetchuck]

Sorry to brake it to you but they aren't making the game to cater to you, and the majority of their demographic prefer larger groups.  You fail to realize the problem they are desperately trying to solve, which is burn out, and the thing is if say Ambulas dropped rare blueprints and was hard to kill it wouldn't even be an issue right now. The main reason he isn't hard to kill is because scripting a boss encounter for 4 people and trying to balance and retain difficulty is nearly impossible because the likely hood of human error is far lower.

I am very disappointed to find out that DE isn't making the game specific to my needs. That flies I'm the face of everything I believed up to this point. My world is a lie. Of course they should make their game the way you think it should be played. You were a lvl90 Dark Elf Flaymaster in WoW and your guild was the first to kill Oogy Boogy in the US.

This is literally the first I've heard of anyone wanting larger teams, let alone a 40-man raid. There's three million players so obviously the squad cap isn't a deal-breaker for many people.

Treat yourself a Sentinal mask. That will show people you're a badass.

[whitejackale]

There's three million players so obviously the squad cap isn't a deal-breaker for many people.

I am sure that there are not three million players that play warframe consistently. I play this game a lot every time that a new update is released, but the truth is that the exitement dies off very quickly because there is nothing to do other than endlessly grinding content that is extremely easy.

 

I have a question. Why exactly are you against content that requires more than four players? Can you put forth any reasonable arguments that would lead everyone to believe that content that is designed for more than four players would be detrimental to warframe and its community?(Please try to leave out empty rhetoric and fallacies if you decide to reply.)

Edited August 22, 2013 by whitejackale

[Sweetchuck]

I have a question. Why exactly are you against content that requires more than four players? Can you put forth any reasonable arguments that would lead everyone to believe that content that is designed for more than four players would be detrimental to warframe and its community?

I'm not against content that supports more than four players. I'm against requiring it or making it the only way to get certain items. When I sit down to play Warframe, I'm not looking forward to a rousing session of trying to wrangle, coordinate, and choreograph a fight with 39 other people. Then I don't want to spend an hour fighting the same boss.

Every aspect of the game would need recalibrated. How is your boss fight going to be difficult when you've got 15 Trinitys spamming Bless? All the weapons and Warframes would need to adjusted too since the game is optimized for four players. People are already complaining about power creep... How much worse would that be when your frame needs to be strong enough to stand up to an enemy strong enough to require 40 attackers? Should they eliminate clan categories of less than 40 people because what could you do with 10 people at that point?

I'm an adult with a job. If I'm lucky, I get maybe four good hours of gaming a night. I don't play WoW or similar games BECAUSE I know you have to put in more time than I'm willing to get a good enough character to apply to a guild to maybe get the chance to fight a monster you only have a chance at after playing for six-months straight. So again, I don't want to spend a huge chunk of my life preparing for a fight only to have it go badly because three DPS people have a bad connection and our shaman... Er... I mean Trinity got drunk and forgot to equip their Blessing mod.

Then there's the issue of "do we make it so 40 randoms can kill this guy, or do the players need to use the best gear available and coordinate?" That will also affect scaling. Make it so it requires a group of elite players, and you'll shut out the people who don't have maxed everything. Make it so it can be tackled by 40 pubs, and the elite players will still complain about power creep.

So no thanks. I fully believe that something should be added for players who have maximized this game's utility, but large-scale raids is not the answer.

[Ghobe]

This is literally the first I've heard of anyone wanting larger teams, let alone a 40-man raid.

This is the first call for 40 mans, but probably the 4th or 5th thread where larger than 4 man groups has been suggested.

 

I have a question. Why exactly are you against content that requires more than four players? Can you put forth any reasonable arguments that would lead everyone to believe that content that is designed for more than four players would be detrimental to warframe and its community?(Please try to leave out empty rhetoric and fallacies if you decide to reply.)

Better question: Why exactly are you so for content that requires more than four players? Why can't the same be done with 4? What makes 8/16/40/200 so much "better"?

 

Make it so it requires a group of elite players, and you'll shut out the people who don't have maxed everything.

Thank god casuals don't have access to everything!...oh wait...they can't accept that...better complain.

[Sweetchuck]

This is the first call for 40 mans, but probably the 4th or 5th thread where larger than 4 man groups has been suggested.

I'm sure there's a desire for it and I'd enjoy an eight-man match, but we're talking about making content that's exclusive to people who have the time to treat this like a full-time job. No thanks.

[Tsukinoki]

@Sweetchuck

And its not just that, but you're also limiting to the players who can afford a good enough internet connection and gaming PC. Otherwise they'll never be able to get access to that content, which is not something a game should do.

A game should *never* go: "Oh, no one in your gaming region has a stable enough connection to manage a 40 man group? Oh well, looks like you can never get access to this content!"

[ThePresident777]

I hate this argument so much. It's not ok for an "elitist"(good player looking for a challenge) to push their ideals on everyone else, but that same "elitist" has to choke down and just deal with every suggestion coming from the casual crowd. And what do they come forward with after that? "let's leave it to a majority vote", yea...because casuals make up 90% of the playerbase...I'm sure that's balanced way to go about it. Quite frankly as an "elitist"(which is about the nicest thing I've been called in the past month), I love to be challenged, and I love to have something not everyone else does. It's a great feeling, especially when it's something supplied by the developer. I hate games where everyone can do everything because it's "just challenging enough". When the reality is, it's just putting the square box into the square hole....while I want something where you put the square box into the square hole and the square hole is dangling on a piano wire over a lake of lava defended by a pair of dragons with tripwires attached to c4 everywhere, and the hole is only open for 0.2 seconds of every 23 seconds. But if I got that, within moments of it being released there will be an immense outcry from the casual crowd that "it's too hard" because they have to actually apply skill, thought, reaction time, etc...and god forbid there be a reward behind that, whether it's aesthetic, a title, an achievement...and if the reward actually affects gameplay? Oh lordy, DE would have to take the forums down to relieve pressure. I mean hell, could you imagine the outcry alone if in order to make the Volt frame you had to successfully complete the Clan dojo's obstacle course in under 1 minute? Hell in under 2 minutes? I bet there'd be outcry even if it was in under 10 minutes(the casual section of my clan can not complete the course in under 10 minutes, moving platforms so hard apparently....as I jump over 4 at once). I hate that games are completely controlled by casual crowds. "If you want difficulty go play dark souls"....dark souls is not hard. "Then you've never played it", actually I have. "Well the game shouldn't be balanced around you", that's not what I'm asking for, I'm asking that content exists that is designed for us, rather than you for once.

 

...I'm sorry I appear to have ranted...but my point remains. Casuals get everything, "elitists" must suffer.

 

Elitists has level 100 enemies they can beat up on.  So, it is not the case that they have no game play specifically for them.

 

If something like Volt were locked behind an "Elitist Wall" then most people would not have access to the game play available through Volt.  This would arbitrarily deny game play to a portion of the player base, a majority of the player base.

[Wiegraf]

While I get what you're trying to say, there's a few problems at the moment :

 

#1 Game Lobby

It's already there, more or less, in the way that selecting a mission puts you in a freeze-frame action sequence fitting the mission you're about to take. The problem is that right now, if you're the first player in, other players won't load into the scene properly. And since everyone who gets added this way actually selected the destination, it means 10 seconds top of visibility.

 

However, there is no 'after-action' lobby of the kind in favor for being able to select a new map to play. Otherwise, you can host your clan's dojo (if you have the key and the rights) and invite recent players in through the contacts menu, which achieves about the same thing.

 

 

#2 Large scale battles

That would be interesting but until the game engine can support more than 4 players AND AI at the same time without the AI screwing up badly, it won't be feasible. At best, I'd see a 12 man (3 squad) raid on a boss if they manage to stretch it far enough and fix the AI with the additionnal computing strain since, after all, this is a game based on local hosts and not dedicated servers.

 

And the possibility for dedis are next to null right now.

 

 

#3 Chat

There's already voice chat in the game to communicate with your squad; however, there is also an option to turn it off which myself, and I guess a lot of people, turn off in favor of using a third party program to talk (Skype, Ventrilo, etc.). Text chat is wonky though and that needs to be revised; it sometimes never disappears or fades out too quickly.

 

 

#4 Duels

The game is far too imbalanced for PvP since the focus is PvE; clans already have 1 on 1 duel rooms but that's mostly to mess around as no one seriously consider PvP in Warframe as viable since many frames' abilities or weapons can down another player in 1 or 2 hits.

 

You just have to ask any player, for example, who's gone in a duel with an Acrid or Sobel user or someone with a Fragor doing a ground slam at the start of combat. It works in PvE since it's massive power against enemies who can take (at high level) an absurd amount of punishment while frames have up to 1000-2000 Shield and Health combined when maxed and that a well modded Braton can deal over 1k damage in a second of continuous fire.

[ThePresident777]

Warframe has little to no problem running 4 players and 12 bots on the screen at the same time on most PCs.  Replace those 12 bots with 12 players and you can now have 4 faction squad vs. squad PVP.  Add dedicated servers and the performance is very good.

[Sweetchuck]

LOL! Warframe is serious business. Yes, casual players are the cancer killing Warframe.

Nevermind that casuals already don't have access to everything and have to spend enough time getting to the higher-level missions so they can get the best gear. They're not treating it like a job and should be castrated before they have little casual babies who will grow up and not devote their life to a game.

Take a breath, dude.

[Arkezuli]

Edited August 22, 2013 by CenSilver

[Ghobe]

LOL! Warframe is serious business. Yes, casual players are the cancer killing Warframe.

Nevermind that casuals already don't have access to everything and have to spend enough time getting to the higher-level missions so they can get the best gear. They're not treating it like a job and should be castrated before they have little casual babies who will grow up and not devote their life to a game.

Take a breath, dude.

I see my post you're responding to was removed...

 

Let me approach this another way...

 

Warframe is far from serious business. Casual players are part of what is and will kill Warframe, just like they kill every other game. Everytime any amount of skill is required to do anything, casuals come crying to the forums begging for it to be nerfed. Eventually the devs cave, and we're left with yet another mundane, mind-numbing game where everyone has access to everything.

 

As to treating the game like it's a job. I don't know about your job, but in my job, no matter how much harder I try, faster I work, efficiently I work, etc, I will not see a single extra dime(they claim they will, but let's face it, I can push upwards of 10x as fast as my co-workers and I still got paid the same amount)...which is exactly what you're trying to change Warframe and many other games into. When everyone is able to get the same thing for various amounts of work ranging from none to no-lifer, you have officially created a work environment. The only difference is that you can't be fired from your game for being TOO lazy.

 

Games are supposed to be fun yes? And fun is subjective yes? I'm sure there are people that enjoy playing games with wallhacks, aimbots, etc...but I enjoy when I have to do everything manually, have to work for it, have something to strive towards...why is your "fun" ok but my fun "wrong"? Why is it ok that your fun gets to be rewarded, but my fun is only given a sense of accomplishment but no reward and no proof of that accomplishment(other than screenshots/video)? This of course assuming my type of fun is even in the game.

 

Also to go back to the level 100 enemies argument. There is virtually no difference between a level 50 enemy and a level 1300 enemy.

 

^Sums up my thoughts on this matter, though on a different subject.