Another ranty thread about Ash

[DjKaplis]

1 hour ago, Torrempesta said:

That's the problem of you people. You just understand "if you like AoE Frames play them", the problem is, or better, WAS, that Ash was one of them, and was nerfed for this exact reason... BUT STILL WE HAVE AoE FRAMES!
It's like saying: "Mmmh, this car is too fast we should make it slower." in a F1 championship...
Do you get the problem?
Ash, as it is, seems easy and fun to play! Really!
But in reality, in the big scheme of the game, he is utterly useless.
You don't have CC, you don't have synergy with your own abilities or your team mates, you can't deal big damages BECAUSE other mass killing Frames, your ability to one-shot ONE target is a drop in the ocean compared to what Saryn, Mesa, Equinox or even Excalibur can do.

Hell, this same matter can be applied to Harrow and Nyx!
Harrow is amazing on paper, but before he can do anything everyone in the room is dead.
Nyx: why should I """mass control""" enemies if they can be killed? Considering that in Interception missions they still hack consoles?
And indeed Nyx is going to be reworked!
For a good damn reason!

Repeating again - if you like AoE frames go play these. Ash bladestorm was changed because it deals dozens of times more damage than any other  AoE ability and completely ignores armor and when playing him I for sure prefer that instead of killing low level trash faster than any other teammate. It still does AoE, only now you have to mark targets. If that's too hard for you then leave him alone and go kill more starchart enemies with your "still useful" aoe frames. Or learn to play Ash with shuriken if killing weak enemies very fast is what you want.

How fun that you mention interception - anything that comes even close to control point guarded by Ash is guaranteed to die even on augmented armor or resistant enemy/ eximus sortie nr 3 in a matter of seconds.

Ash doesn't need cc, his cc is killing anything that comes near him, he has some (more than many others) synergy among his abilities, can support his team if he wants  and does insane damage. Only reason you would think he is bad is because you have absolutely no clue how to play him and he just isn't for you.

[Torrempesta]

Just now, DjKaplis said:

Repeating again - if you like AoE frames go play these. Ash bladestorm was changed because it deals dozens of times more damage than any other  AoE ability and completely ignores armor and when playing him I for sure prefer that instead of killing low level trash faster than any other teammate. It still does AoE, only now you have to mark targets. If that's too hard for you then leave him alone and go kill more starchart enemies with your "still useful" aoe frames. Or learn to play Ash with shuriken if killing weak enemies very fast is what you want.

How fun that you mention interception - anything that comes even close to control point guarded by Ash is guaranteed to die even on augmented armor or resistant enemy/ eximus sortie nr 3 in a matter of seconds.

Ash doesn't need cc, his cc is killing anything that comes near him, he has some (more than many others) synergy among his abilities, can support his team if he wants  and does insane damage. Only reason you would think he is bad is because you have absolutely no clue how to play him and he just isn't for you.

Repeating again: nerfing a F1 car because it's too fast in a F1 championship is stupid. Period.
Do you even read what we both are writing? 
My problem is not "BOOOHOO ASH IS TRASH, I WANT TO PLAY ASH BCS HE IS MY FAV WF!1!!".
Goddammit, I don't know how to say it anymore!
My problem is that we have, currently, a bunch of WFs that are USELESS.

Or... better: unused!
Ash, Harrow, Nyx, the brand new Khora are unused! Nobody plays them!
Why should I waste time and effort with Harrow in order to give power to everyone when Trinity can do it in 1 click?
Why should I waste time and effort in Ash's BS when Saryn or Mesa or Equinox can blast enemies with 1 click?
And saying, again AND AGAIN AND AGAIN: "play them" won't solve the problem!
Which is, I REPEAT: the fact that we have a bunch of Frames that are unused because their overcomplicated gameplay!

Gosh!

And again!
If you have a decent team Ash is useless in interception!
He needs tons of power that he can't have if he is too distant from any support frame!
He has no CC so he can't stop or disrupt enemies' actions! Damn, Loki can literally say "Nope, stop hacking my consoles everyone!"
He is slow for killing enemies! And again: having no CC doesn't hallow him to take time!

I'll try giving you another example, I'll try to take the argument from another perspective: any character OF ANY GAME that needs ALL of his/her/it teammates to work EXCLUSIVELY for him has something wrong. 
I can't force people to play Trinity, Rhino and XYZ in order to play effectively Ash.
And for sure I can't play 80m minimum in order to make him somewhat relevant against enemies!
The same goes for Harrow: I can't have a bunch of support Frames to make Harrow, a support, relevant or at least a bit useful.
It makes no sense!

Maybe you'll get my point now.

I just played Harrow in the last sortie, a Surv in the Void. It was frustrating! I had to rush and jump and be faster than the others in order to give them buffs... which were useless because or I killed everyone or THEY killed everyone already!
"Please stop killing things! I want to buff you so you can kill things!"
Ash: "Stop killing enemies, I have to kill them so you won't!"
It makes no sense.

[DjKaplis]

2 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

My problem is that we have, currently, a bunch of WFs that are USELESS.

Maybe you'll get my point now.


Ash: "Stop killing enemies, I have to kill them so you won't!"
It makes no sense.

I get your point. And I will repeat again because you just fail to understand - Ash is one of the strongest warframes in game. And only obvious reason you would even think that he is useless is that you have no clue at all how to play him. You have no idea what you are talking about, do you get the point now?

 

And of course enough people play Ash, why would they not:

-Spy missions - easy

-Exterminate - easy with his natural above average sprint speed

-Mobile defense, defense - anything that comes close to objective will just die, them running at objective makes Ash's task in marking enemies really easy

-Interception - super easy as all he has to do again and again is to kill the unlucky fool hacking the console. And with bladestorm can in seconds kill all his buddies too.

-Survival - absolutely amazing, no problem keeping up kills per second, life support and staying alive.

 

Another indication that you don't know what you are talking about - I just told you Ash can murder every enemy coming too close a control point or objective in sortie 3 augmented armor/ enemy resist/ eximus. And you say "Other frames are much better, Ash needs buffs from support frames". Ash needs zero buffs and no team has to adjust to help him out, it's the usual dps frames that need specciffic and usually very non-versatile team compositions.

Ash doesn't need for teammates to stop killing enemies. Why should Ash care about getting all the kills, he doesn't. He is there to help teammates out when team's damage starts to fail and enemies are too strong to be killed with usual long range abilities or casual aoe but trash damage weapons like ignis. To eliminate that ancient in middle of enemies almost nulifying team's damage or that napalm getting ready to shoot your teammate in the face with his ogris.

In situations when all goes well and team's dps can kill enemies easy Ash just does his part and some of the killing as everything is fine. But in case dps frame's damage starts to fail, it goes down or some really troubling enemies appear - that is when Ash comes to help. Or he is using his seeking shuriken to remove enemy armor and dps frame like equinox, volt or other can keep up killing enemies in a fast pace.

 

So again - if you just like to get most kills on low level missions with AoE nukes, go play those frames, we have quite enough of them already (and we already get enough rants about AoE abilities, I prefer not seeing suggestions to nerf Ash appear again...if your suggested BS changes happen, nerfs will be requested...maybe because they already removed that mass 1 button press dmg feature for that reason, eh?). The problem with those frames is that their damage often falls off quite fast without buffs or specciffic setups while with Ash I can always be sure that I will have enough damage to kill anything even if I don't AoE kill enemies just as soon as they spawn. Just like with Octavia. 

Or just like with Nidus or Wukong you can be sure that you just won't die.

 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

3 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

Repeating again: nerfing a F1 car because it's too fast in a F1 championship is stupid. Period.
Do you even read what we both are writing? 
My problem is not "BOOOHOO ASH IS TRASH, I WANT TO PLAY ASH BCS HE IS MY FAV WF!1!!".
Goddammit, I don't know how to say it anymore!
My problem is that we have, currently, a bunch of WFs that are USELESS.

The issue is the fact that Ash's main damage source comes from Finisher damage and slash procs, two of which are the strongest damage types in the game. So requesting Ash to essentially speed up his killing potential would no doubt create unwanted powercreep.

3 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

Why should I waste time and effort with Harrow in order to give power to everyone when Trinity can do it in 1 click?

You have never heard the church of the holy crits?

3 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

Why should I waste time and effort in Ash's BS when Saryn or Mesa or Equinox can blast enemies with 1 click?

Because Ash's BS doesn't require you to build or ramp up its damage to kill high lvl enemies and compared to Mesa's 4, Ash's Bladestorm is pretty damn cheap for an ability that can easily deal with lvl 100 fodder enemies unmodded.

Plus superior survivability (invisibility)

 

3 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

I just played Harrow in the last sortie, a Surv in the Void. It was frustrating! I had to rush and jump and be faster than the others in order to give them buffs... which were useless because or I killed everyone or THEY killed everyone already!
"Please stop killing things! I want to buff you so you can kill things!"
Ash: "Stop killing enemies, I have to kill them so you won't!"
It makes no sense

That's funny, everytime I play Harrow my issue isn't that I can't kill enemies but rather my teammates don't stay close to me to get my buffs forcing me to chase them down and recast my abilities constantly.

3 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

If you have a decent team Ash is useless in interception!
He needs tons of power that he can't have if he is too distant from any support frame!
He has no CC so he can't stop or disrupt enemies' actions! Damn, Loki can literally say "Nope, stop hacking my consoles everyone!"
He is slow for killing enemies! And again: having no CC doesn't hallow him to take time!

Depending on your Map, Ash can literally watch two points at once, three if you have the range. What's that? Enemies taking A while I'm securing B? Let me quickly swipe and bladestorm them off the point while I stay at and defend B from enemies attacking it at the same. Ash doesn't shouldn't even need to worry about energy with efficiency and flow mods because he has one of the cheapest kits in the game.

Why would Ash worry about disrupting Enemies when he can just kill them? Isn't dead enemies less of a threat than a CCed ones?

Maybe because I use Primed fury on my melee or I use Arcane Trickery on Ash or I'm a pro swiper or something, but I always get top or close second in damage and/or kills while having the less damage received in anything above lvl 40 content with my bladestorm build. So the thought of buffing Bladestorm is horrifying and illogical because of how powerful this ability is when built right.

 

You can continue to tell us how inconvenient your experience with Ash is all you want, but as long as I keep getting top damage/kills and lowest damage received in Sorties and such, I'm going to say no to flat out bladestorm buffs.

Edited July 14, 2018 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[(PSN)LordBartimus]

I main Ash. Consistently he is my most used frame and I can say, with utmost certainty, he is not bad. He's really strong if you actually learn how to use him effectively. His Shuriken augment is easily one of the best armor strips in the game. His smoke screen provides a decent invis that isn't broken like Loki. He has a great movement utility with his telepoet plus with its augment its the single most powerful single target ability in game. And Bladestrom has INCREDIBLE room clear potential with a high bleed stack thanks to his passive. Consistently as Ash I can take the top damage on survival or defence missions. It takes a little more work because he truly isnt a press 4 to win frame, but he is FAR from bad.

People continue to write these big posts about how Ash is so bad, yet their play time with him was just enough to get him to 30 and nothing else. There's no forma investment, no time. True he could use some better ability synergy but he's in a much better state than he's ever been. So before you *veteran* players decide to run in and say he's the equivalent of manure take some time to actually play him. If you want help with builds or what not, that's fine, I'll help you. But give him the chance you give saryn or whatever before you condemn him to the grave. 

[(PSN)LordBartimus]

Also, Ash needs no buffs. His kit esse tally allows him to stack bleed and then invis away real quick for very little cost. And because Shuriken goes through walls, stacks bleed, and can strip armor, why would he need buffs? He could use a heal every now and then for sure. But my solution for that is the Hunter Mod that makes your pets heal you. 

[HavocNoir]

En 12/7/2018 a las 16:40, Torrempesta dijo:

Some could say: why the hell people still obsess over Ash and his rework?
Well, first of all I have to specify that I am NOT an Ash fan. At all. I have always found him boring, but being an old player with 5 years and hundreds of hours of gameplay I have needs... and these needs are "I want to play everything".
BUT 
But... Ash is one of those Frames that I would really like to (re)discover but simply can't.
What bugs me about Ash and his (old now) rework is the reason behind it.
Devs basically said "We don't want a 1 button Frame, press to win-style."
Fine.
I can understand that!
REALLY!
But you can't say that when we had, and have: 
Ember
Mesa
Saryn
Mag
Atlas
Banshee
On some extent Excalibur

All these Frames have a massive damage and are 1-button-to-win.
Yes yes, I know that Ember has been nerfed and her WoF is now a shadow of what it was... but still she melts low level enemies!
Mesa has one of the longest range in the game and can build elemental damage to either strip armor or gas enemies!
I mean: we have plenty of Frames capable of massive damage and devastation.

And to be frank... Ash wasn't that big of a dps... I mean: in the old times yeah, you dealt tons of damage to the enemies in the area, but what about those who entered the area AFTER you cast Bladestorm?
They were immune. 
Or enemies already killed by allies?
BS took some time to go off!

Then came the rework... Epilepsy is behind the corner, if you are, still now, affected by Parkinson you have a big advantage!
But still, he is slow. Soooo slow in dealing damage.
Why bother being invisible and nervously shaking your camera when you can spam E with Loki... for a longer period of time?
Ash now is useless.
Sadly.
Because yes, I found it boring, but still useful in high level missions and not a pain in the neck like other DPS Frames and for the reason I brought.

So why don't they change him AGAIN?
I have some ideas, because I'd really love to use a Frame I built long time ago... You know... I have it... why can't I use it effectively?

1- BS now works like Nidus' Virulence, only the Area is round. You basically drop a Clone-Bomb on the enemies in the area of effect. Current mechanics in place (Smoke Screen reduced cost).
This way you don't automatically go AFK killing stuff, you still have to play and can deal a lot of DMG in a certain area (IDK: 6m range? Scaling with Power Range of course).
2- World on Fire Style. We like the fact that Ash is a ninja right? Maybe the only REAL ninja in the game, so why don't spawn 2 clones that act like Ember fire pillars?
I can already hear you say "But they nerfed Ember for XYZ reasons, why would they create another Ember based on physical damage?" Well, first of all because it is Physical Damage. Its cost may be largely increased since it would scale with combo multiplier and still halved by Smokescreen. And finally: I don't get why they nerfed Ember in the first place if I have to be honest... It's not like her WoF was useful against Heavy Gunners LVL120!
3- Old Saryn Miasma. Take Ash Shuriken and make them AoE. Boring, but still playable. The Combo Multiplier can scale differently since your damage now is quicker and centered on yourself. Even the range can be reduced.

Of course these are just ideas, I don't have the time nor the will to set all the numbers, but I want to point out that right now Ash is dead... and nowdays there are far too many unused Frames.
Khora has already been forgotten; Harrow can't perform since every Frame kills everything before he can do anything; Chroma is played against Eidolon, period; Nyx will be reworked but I am frankly scared of what they can do; Trinity needs a rework since you just press 2 and 4 with her; Banshee has bad sinergy; Nova is only played in Defense missions and needs a rework too... badly; Frost is either played in Defense or Mobile Defense.

So... yeah, that's all, this is my rant. I really want to discuss what do you think. I hope I did not sound rude or anything, I really just want to talk about this game that I really like.

come on using excalibur as a press to win is similar to saying melee is press to win 

[Torrempesta]

I wanted to quote a lot of what the last players said, but I can only recap with one single question: you play in Solo a lot right?
Because that is the only explanation.
As I said, on paper Ash is amazing, but he is completely outclassed by ANY other Frame in ANY field.
Clearing, CC, survivability, speed, tankyness, ANYTHING!
Saryn may need to build damage, but when a Frame can jump from 25 to 350 dps in 4 seconds, stripping armor and halving enemies health with 1 click (also blinding them) you don't actually need anything else.
When a Mesa can clear the landscape in a 50m radius without efforts ALSO stripping enemies armor while reducing 95% of the incoming damage, you are good.
When a random Equinox (which is really easy to adjust) can build up so much damage to oneshot high level enemies in a 40m radius in 10 seconds you don't need Slash Procs form BS.

If this game was called "AshFrame" with only Ash as the protagonist, we wouldn't have problems, but it is called "Warframe", there are many Frames. Which, again, outclass him every time.


@lordbartimus: I have completely Forma'd Ash with 3 different Configurations. Each of them are awful. I have a Duration build, so I have more time for my Smokescreen; I have a Strength build, so I can deal more damage; I have a Fatal Teleport build, so I can one-shot enemies singularly; I have tried both Status Chance and High Crit weapons, noticing almost no difference between the two.
I have, only recently accumulated 12 hours of gameplay with only Ash Prime in order to find a way to play him decently, just for the sake of trying something different!
Nothing.
I want to stay invisible? Loki or Octavia.
I want to deal damage? Saryn, Mesa or Equniox.
I want to be tanky? Nidus, Saryn, Rhino, Atlas, Frost, Inaros, Khora, Gara.
I want to have CC (because yes, I even tried a full range Smokescreen build)? Loki, Rhino, Banshee, Nyx (meh), Gara, Saryn, Zephyr, that damn octopus that I frankly hate.

And you would say: but why do you play them? Can't you have fun with Ash? Are you some kind of Power Player?
No. Not at all! Indeed I want to have fun! But I can't if the, supposed, DPS Frame can't kill a goddamn thing...
"Ah-ha! There goes a bunch of enemies!"
*Random Valkyr/Nekros kills everyone spinning*

WIth Mesa, or even Loki: "Ah-ha! There goes a bunch of enemies!"--- just kills them with melee attacks of Peacemaker.

Ash is slow! Even I noticed his amazing DPS in the Symaris chamber (whatever it's called), but in real he is slow, boring and his kit is not synergic at all.

 

[Torrempesta]

Sorry for the second post in a row: it's not that Ash is bad in general. He is bad compared with any other Frame.
If you can choose between a family car and a Lamborghini, what would you chose?
Both can take you anywhere for sure, but which one is objectively better?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

Sorry for the second post in a row: it's not that Ash is bad in general. He is bad compared with any other Frame.

I mean Ash is not in a good spot now, but saying this is not exactly true. For one, he can stay invisible, damage enemies with BS AND shoot enemies are the same time. With the augment to strip armor, he can also well, strip armor for his guns to do more. That, and all his casts are one handed, thus they do not interrupt movement or reload, unlike Octavia where you spam crouch or Loki where you get into this awkward position that kills momentum if you did not bullet jump before casting it.

Ash is not exactly the best at invis or damage. In terms of invisibility, though, his ease of use trumps everyone else who can turn invisible, unless you want to play the Inaros + Skiajati + Arcane Trickery card simply because that one costs no energy. As for damage ... he's useful when you need to do elemental enhancement Sortie. Other than that ... nah. But thanks to his smoothness, he does come in useful for someone that simply doesn't need to do that much, especially in missions like Rescue or Sabotage.

Do I want an Ash buff? Of course. More energy, 4 Shurikens at max level of Shuriken and Bladestorm 1.0 would all be nice to have, but things don't always go one's way.

7 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

If you can choose between a family car and a Lamborghini, what would you chose?

Both can take you anywhere for sure, but which one is objectively better?

The family car, for sure. Thanks to speed limits, high petrol costs and the fact jealous people will run their car keys on a lambo if they see one, after you park. Unless you are talking about the Autobahn.

There's a tool for everything.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Guest

[Torrempesta]

2 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

The family car, for sure. Thanks to speed limits

I feared someone could take in consideration this, even toh we are talking about raw power.
Is it better a decently fast car with a decent oil consume or a faster car with even less consume per hour?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

I feared someone could take in consideration this, even toh we are talking about raw power.
Is it better a decently fast car with a decent oil consume or a faster car with even less consume per hour?

There's too many things to consider.

As I said, Jealous people scratching your Lambo is a huge problem. For example a crazy Mesa shooting everyone in Radiation Sortie. I've even put down an Excal Umbra who blew up the Extractor with his EB after he was irradiated (yes, I literally had to "kill" him to cancel the EB)

Sometimes, Ash is simply a good choice to pick, thanks to his abilities and passive, which synergize well with Hunter Munitions and viral build guns. This is simply my goto for most survivals (Viral and Rad Tigris + Duration AshP with armor strip). It just works. 

Also, I have said how Octavia and Loki are limited. Same for the case of damage frames when the conditions do not permit. Like how you don't take a Lambo over rough terrain full of gravel and grit, you take a Jeep.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Guest

[DjKaplis]

1 hour ago, Torrempesta said:

Sorry for the second post in a row: it's not that Ash is bad in general. He is bad compared with any other Frame.
 

1 hour ago, Torrempesta said:

 You play in Solo a lot right? (Edit: no, we don't) Because that is the only explanation.
Ash is outclassed by ANY other Frame in ANY field. (Edit: not at all)

Saryn may need to build damage, but when a Frame can jump from 25 to 350 dps in 4 seconds. (Edit: overexaggerating and try her in something like index)
When a Mesa can clear the landscape in a 50m radius while reducing 95% of the incoming damage, you are good. (Edit: line of sight, nulifiers, energy drain, slow movement, invisibility > 95% reduction, in high lvl she dies)
When a random Equinox (which is really easy to adjust) can build up so much damage to oneshot high level enemies in a 40m radius in 10 seconds you don't need Slash Procs form BS. (Edit: completely false, you need to kill enemies to build up that damage, maim Equinox can't really do that herself against high lvl enemies without getting 1shotted)

I have completely Forma'd Ash with 3 different Configurations. Each of them are awful. (Edit: because you are bad)
I have, only recently accumulated 12 hours of gameplay with only Ash Prime. (Edit: yea we get that you haven't played him much)

I want to stay invisible? Loki or Octavia. (Edit: or Ash. Or Ivara for that matter)
I want to deal damage? Saryn, Mesa or Equniox. (Edit: or Ash, Mag, Volt, Excal etc)
I want to be tanky? Nidus, Saryn (Edit: no), Rhino, Atlas, Frost (Edit: no), Inaros, Khora (Edit: no), Gara. (Edit:or others you didn't mention. Yet all stealth frames got at least if not more SURVIVABILITY)
I want to have CC (because yes, I even tried a full range Smokescreen build)? Loki, Rhino, Banshee (Edit:no), Nyx (meh), Gara (Edit:not really), Saryn (Edit: absolutely not), Zephyr, that damn octopus that I frankly hate. (Edit: you are funny if you try to build Ash for cc. And he doesn't need cc to stay alive or guard objectives)

And you would say: but why do you play them? Can't you have fun with Ash? I can't kill a goddamn thing... (Edit: actually we say:"Play these frames and leave Ash alone. As obviously you enjoy playing them more and can't play Ash")

WIth Mesa, or even Loki: "Ah-ha! There goes a bunch of enemies!"--- just kills them with melee attacks of Peacemaker. (Edit: since when can't Ash use melee?)

Ash is slow! Even I noticed his amazing DPS in the Symaris chamber (whatever it's called), but in real he is slow, boring and his kit is not synergic at all. (Edit: nope, not slow, not boring, quite synergetic and you just can't play Ash at all)

 

See the (Edit:)

We don't play solo and the only explanation is that you don't know what  you are talking about and Ash just isn't meant for you.

 

I already wrote a few quite long  posts explaining to you (and some others like you) how Ash could be used in different situations and not only he isn't " being outclassed by any other frame on any category", he on the contrary is easily outclassing any other frame in many game situations. If you fail to understand I'm afraid we just can't help you, go back playing the frames you like.

Edited July 15, 2018 by DjKaplis

[Torrempesta]

41 minutes ago, DjKaplis said:

We don't play solo and the only explanation is that you don't know what  you are talking about

20hours only with Ash Prime, just to figure what to do with him and making him decent.
Next time you say "You can't play him" I won't respond on the topic.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Torrempesta

[DjKaplis]

19 minutes ago, Torrempesta said:

20hours only with Ash Prime, just to figure what to do with him and making him decent.
Next time you say "You can't play him" I won't respond.

You can't play him.

[Torrempesta]

You can't argue.

[DjKaplis]

2 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

You can't argue.

1st of all you said you wouldn't reply. Liar :P

2nd your thread is in the wrong section, should be "warframes and abilities"

3rd you were wrong right from beginning - opening statement "Ash is bad and any other warframe outclasses him" already lost you the argument.

4th I explained to you in detail few posts ago how you could use him and how he is very much useable in multiple situations. You just completely ignored that info.

5th when many people say that he is very strong and a few keep saying he is useless while giving completely invalid arguments, guess who's right. The fact that you spent some time trying to figure him out and failed only speaks about you and not Ash. 

6th see statement nr.3 ...on my very first reply I said that, yes, Ash could use some buffs if they are well informed and give him synergy, fit his theme like Autongnosis brought up. But not likely he will get these anytime soon since he already is very strong and many other warframes need some buffs and updates sooner.

 

Here something to look at:

 

This was before he recieved his latest minor improvement to not get locked in animation while executing bladestorm so now he is even stronger. (Also in this was just 2 stealth frame team with no buff, support. So full team of course is even stronger) I hope you can understand how saying a warframe that can duo or even solo lvl 500+ enemies is bad and outclassed by every other frame is just wrong. Because if he can fight level 500+ enemies then he for sure is useable also on all content below that. Yes, he isn't perfect and some nice but not too op buffs would be welcome (too op = people will ask for nerfs, guaranteed) but certainly not at all bad right now.

Edited July 15, 2018 by DjKaplis

[kevoisvevo]

Well i would like to chime in as an ash main who solos lvl 200 - 2000 content on mot every now and then, I agree with a lot of people who disagree and agree on his mechanics.

1) I feel like his 1st is good enough with seeking shuriken but it would be even better if the shuriken staggers enemies a bit.

2) For his 2nd i wish his smokescreen gets buffed to 12 sec like loki or even 10 sec along with increased energy cost at 50 energy plus keep his smokescreen augment though, this way it will bring him closer to loki,

3) His 3rd is a double edged sword, i have been bugged out during fatal teleport 1/8 times during my lvl 1000+ runs, so they need to fix the pathing AI, fatal teleport should mean instant finisher no matter how fast the target is lol.

4) for 4th the augment is complete utter garbage if you run drifting contact or body count on high lvls. His bladestorm is meh at damage too slow and flashy to be truly effective. Like one poster said while i am marking a group of targets i see some guy with a ignis burning down all my hard work, and even if the marks go off i kill 2-3 instead of the marked 7-8 enemies because that ignis wraith with the riven kills faster than bladestorm even at sortie 3. i saw that on a grineer survival map once and then i just keep spamming 2 and 1 not bothering with 4. yes it can go into 100k finisher damage but you need both 3x combo counter and power strength from 160-200 for that. i can just as well use saryn, mesa or excalibur to turn sortie lvl 3 into mince meat and beyond sortie 3 bladestorm becomes a support skill rather than an ult, try using bladestorm on lvl 200 on mot, i know i had to cast twice to kill them from the pent up bleed damage, when i can just use my zarr or nikana prime to finish them off. Also one poster suggested making his bladestorm a cone i like that suggestion, why not try to make it like mesa's peacemakers?  i would also suggest they need to remove that bladestorm speed animation cap at 155%, seriously why the hell should i feel gimped like that when i can use fatal teleport at 234% speed with a covert lethality dagger lol.