Far Too Much "stop What You're Doing!"

[Qeveren]

I think this is by far my biggest complaint with the gameplay in Warframe. Literally everything stops you from doing things.

Character animations - no, you can't do -anything else- until I'm done to the last frame with this jump/roll/attack/stagger/whatever animation. No, I won't listen to your control inputs and do them when I'm done, you can wait.

Control lag - ties in with the character animations issue (trying to do melee charge attacks while in melee range is an exercise in frustration), also things like trying to run having a massive half-second delay.

Enemy melee attacks - everything is a stun, a stagger, a knockback, a knockdown.

Heavy melee weapons - what, move AND swing? Madness! Utter madness!

Basically, it feels like I'm fighting the game itself instead of the NPC opponents I should be facing. Sometimes it doesn't really bother me. Other times I'm leaving teeth-marks in my keyboard. XD

Edited February 10, 2013 by Qeveren

[Zejjie]

And the devs said in their latest vid that the fluidity of movement/animation is being worked on

[_Rue_]

you gotta work with what you have. If you swing that scindo, you swing knowing the consequences of that swing. You can't swing then change your mind mid way. Same goes with rolling and jumping, etc.

You can interrupt some actions like reloading, which is not very difficult.

Lag... is lag >_>

Stunns and staggers are overwheling when a lot of sources are present... you need to avoid getting stuck in the middle... if it's infested, use a heavey weapon to become unstaggerable while swinging, roll every no and then to avoid leapers.

[GratuitousLurking]

The only real issue I've had with movement comes from when I was first learning to wall run (I've still yet to learn how to trade walls, but getting the basic running down now!) and heavy stagger areas, like them Grinders. Oh god them grinders...

That and the sometimes I do a charge attack and my character slides the melee weapon away before I can do a melee attack again.

[sambarpowder]

If it's any help, you can interrupt most animations with your fire button

[Volume]

If it's any help, you can interrupt most animations with your fire button

Not ability casting animations.

[Tarudizer]

I agree, for the most part. Enemies certainly do have one too many CC abilities, ESPECIALLY infested with all their staggers and what have you. I actually like the fact that human enemies (grineer, corpus crewmen) actually try to bash your face and interrupt a charged melee attack if you are too close. That's a nice piece or realism that makes sense, and it makes timing your charge attacks a tiny challenge.

The animations could certainly do with some more fluidity. Right now my warframe seems to be doing a lot of unecessary movement that I didn't want him to make, like the rolls and what have you, and after doing certain skill animations (Excalibur's 4 comes to mind) I'm left mashing my keyboard in order to make him move faster before I die to a bunch of mobs because he wanted to strike a pose.

[Cakes]

Every try jumping in place while shooting your gun?

I succumb to the urge to do a somersault every time...

Edited February 10, 2013 by Cakes

[Vant]

basically what this guy wants is to control 3 warframes in one so he can sprint while rolling and sliding down a slope while shooting enemies.

He wants what is not possible

[Cakes]

basically what this guy wants is to control 3 warframes in one so he can sprint while rolling and sliding down a slope while shooting enemies.

He wants what is not possible

Umm.... no. What the OP would like user-wise is the ability to cancel an animation somehow and the ability to do a heavy charge attack without a break to his/herwalking/running to do the swing animation.

[Mak_Gohae]

Enemy melee attacks - everything is a stun, a stagger, a knockback, a knockdown.

Heavy melee weapons - what, move AND swing? Madness! Utter madness!

It's your job to continue your flow of death and evade all the staggering, knockback, etc.

Heavy melee weapons needed a disadvantage to them from the advantages you get.

[neKroMancer]

I don't really feel what the OP describe so far. However, if DE choose to create cancelling as a legit technique - the gameplay needs to be faster to accomodate this.

The only thing that I feel extremely cluncky is when you got smashed and lying on the floor for 2-3 seconds while the entire room just shooting at you. A tech roll to recover from such humiliation would be nice.

[Qeveren]

basically what this guy wants is to control 3 warframes in one so he can sprint while rolling and sliding down a slope while shooting enemies.

He wants what is not possible

As awesome as that would be, no. :) What I would like is for the game to stop ignoring my inputs until it's done with animations, or because something has interrupted me.

For example, if I'm holding down shift, my character should be running. The only exceptions should be if I'm knocked down/staggered, or out of stamina. However, try running and jumping while keeping the shift key held. You'll run, jump, roll... and then walk. That's unacceptable (imagine me saying this in Lemongrab's voice :)), particularly in light of the huge run delay that already exists. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Basically, there are times when you'll be inputting a command, and the game will blithely ignore you FOREVER, until you stop doing it and then do it again. It sounds like it's trivial, "just press the button again", which is true enough... but I find it really breaks the flow of what I'm doing; it feels unnatural, like I'm fighting the UI.

The game is perfectly playable right now, I just think this could be improved on. :)

[CY13ERPUNK]

And the devs said in their latest vid that the fluidity of movement/animation is being worked on

this

and lag is always going to be a part of internet games

but i sincerely hope that warframe does NOT become some animation-canceling spamfest

there are plenty of those games out there already.... =/

oh ya, and here's what's already possible, nevermind all the cool S#&$ DE still has up their sleeve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89U1GlWYg6M&list=LLz0XNYl6YKKM-S2-OjtVYuQ

they make it look easy don't they?

Edited February 10, 2013 by CY13ERPUNK

[MJ12]

It's your job to continue your flow of death and evade all the staggering, knockback, etc.

Heavy melee weapons needed a disadvantage to them from the advantages you get.

I suppose then according to you DMC and Bayonetta are low-skill games because you can cancel literally every animation at the right time? Animation canceling increases, not decreases, the skill ceiling of a game. And is almost a necessity in a fast paced game.

Hell, even ME3 has animation canceling, and that's not exactly Super Fast Twitch Game. So yes, you should totally be able to cancel every animation and keep inputs held. Having to "evade" staggering, knockback, etc, especially with the derpy no-invulnerabilty frame "dodge" we get, is really just saying you don't want to increase the skill ceiling of the game.

And sure, it might make the game easier. So? It also paves the way for extraordinarily masochistic content wherein you have to master the game to get anywhere. Right now, the current setup is extremely antithetical to high difficulty challenges which are remotely fun. You don't have ways to easily avoid damage outside of cheesing encounters with cover or kiting or whatever, if you get hit by a heavy staggering attack you can't recover from it, and put together with high damage you just get unfun encounters.

Animation canceling looks silly if the animations aren't blended right but undeniably increases the effectiveness of skilled players. As a guy who talks up how you want challenging combat and how you're pretty good and current Chargers are fine and all, you should be all for it.

[11.11.11]

Honestly, the only issue I have at the momment with the current animations, is in regard to the one's that are a bit buggy, and the one's that seriously need to have a canceling option added.

I'm talking about hacking in particular.

[Mak_Gohae]

I suppose then according to you DMC and Bayonetta are low-skill games because you can cancel literally every animation at the right time? Animation canceling increases, not decreases, the skill ceiling of a game. And is almost a necessity in a fast paced game.

Hell, even ME3 has animation canceling, and that's not exactly Super Fast Twitch Game. So yes, you should totally be able to cancel every animation and keep inputs held. Having to "evade" staggering, knockback, etc, especially with the derpy no-invulnerabilty frame "dodge" we get, is really just saying you don't want to increase the skill ceiling of the game.

Games, like snowflakes, are all different. One goes does not need what another game has no matter if it has become a norm.

And sure, it might make the game easier. So? It also paves the way for extraordinarily masochistic content wherein you have to master the game to get anywhere. Right now, the current setup is extremely antithetical to high difficulty challenges which are remotely fun. You don't have ways to easily avoid damage outside of cheesing encounters with cover or kiting or whatever, if you get hit by a heavy staggering attack you can't recover from it, and put together with high damage you just get unfun encounters.

I dont understand how in a game that has guns using cover or the range that the guns provide..... "cheesing."

That's like saying you are going to play Street Fighter and NOT use your special moves because they are cheesy.

Animation canceling looks silly if the animations aren't blended right but undeniably increases the effectiveness of skilled players. As a guy who talks up how you want challenging combat and how you're pretty good and current Chargers are fine and all, you should be all for it.

I was fine with original charges so i dont NEED another thing to increase my effectiveness.

If they add it, fine, but any average player using all the tools the game provides can also be as effective as i am.

But i dont really want this game to turn into Gungrave or Dynasty Warriors where the enemies have no chance at anything and the game is just essentially trying to reach the biggest combo and nothing more.

Honestly, the only issue I have at the momment with the current animations, is in regard to the one's that are a bit buggy, and the one's that seriously need to have a canceling option added.

I'm talking about hacking in particular.

You press ESC to cancel out of hacking.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[Qeveren]

Just to be clear, I wasn't referring at all to network lag in the OP... the devs aren't going to be able to do much about a terrible internet connection someone has, after all. :)

[MJ12]

Games, like snowflakes, are all different. One goes does not need what another game has no matter if it has become a norm.

No. You don't get to make this argument and pretend that Warframe, a fast paced game, doesn't benefit from a feature which makes games faster paced. If literally every game from Modern Warfare to Mass Effect to Devil May Cry has animation cancelling with the same intention (to allow players more fluid control of the game) you really need a very good reason why not to add it. I mean there's "not being a copycat" and then there's "ignoring advancements in game design which are nearly universally applicable."

Remember: The only games without animation canceling are slow-paced games like classic-style MMOs. Almost every FPs today has reload canceling, for example.

I dont understand how in a game that has guns using cover or the range that the guns provide..... "cheesing."

That's like saying you are going to play Street Fighter and NOT use your special moves because they are cheesy.

Given a total lack of cover system it's fairly obvious that the game isn't intended to encourage cover-based combat. Given how prominently melee attacks are featured in the trailers and how little "hide behind crates and shoot" is, it's pretty obviously cheesing.

Similarly, all those official trailers involving Tenno running away shooting instead of diving in with weapons hot. You know of those right?

You're not supposed to be reliant on cover or kiting, literally nothing in the game tells you to do either, so it's either some sort of super high tier hidden technique (lol) or it's cheesing the game. How kiting right now is dependent on one faction being a poorly thought-out mass of uninterruptible unavoidable stuns at close range kind of proves the point.

"Something not featured in the trailers at all and without mechanics because it's not core to the game" is not even close to comparable to "something featured repeatedly and one of the major per-character differences". Soft cover and kiting exist due to the game being a third person shooter and due to poor melee unit AI, respectively. They exist and are undeniably there but shouldn't be encouraged or emphasized. In fact given the grenade damage, I'd argue the game really wants to discourage you from extensive cover usage.

I was fine with original charges so i dont NEED another thing to increase my effectiveness.

If they add it, fine, but any average player using all the tools the game provides can also be as effective as i am.

Look, I'll repeat this again. "I don't like change" isn't a good argument. Creating more fluid control, increasing the potential skill ceiling, and thus allowing for higher level challenges without creating boring meatwall slogs involving hiding behind a wall shooting with Puncture mods (not very fun) or kiting dumb piles of HP and "screw-you" (also not very fun) is an unmitigated good thing. You have not made an argument against this besides some wurbling about "difficulty reduction". And if difficulty comes from the interface or game mechanics rather than the opposition, it's bad difficulty that needs to be eliminated or (preferably) replaced by good difficulty.

But i dont really want this game to turn into Gungrave or Dynasty Warriors where the enemies have no chance at anything and the game is just essentially trying to reach the biggest combo and nothing more.

Play DMC4 or Bayonetta, which have the mechanics I mentioned and let you avoid/counter/punish literally every enemy attack reliably on a high difficulty and then tell me again that giving this toolset will have to eliminate any challenge from the game. They allow for a much more scalable challenge because you CAN have enemies that can two or three- hit you and not have any issues in combat. And well, you know, that's challenge. Wherein survival is utterly dependent on skill and you can recover from any bad situation.

[neKroMancer]

I agree with MJ. Warframe as a fast pace game will greatly improve with cancelling. It'll be more fluid, faster, and more fun. The difficulty scale will be much higher to accomodate the increase skill ceiling.

The fact that Warframe doesn't have cover system means it's going to feature more movement-based mechanics. Movement mechanic needs animation cancel to really achieve the best result.

[Nephera]

Character animations - no, you can't do -anything else- until I'm done to the last frame with this jump/roll/attack/stagger/whatever animation. No, I won't listen to your control inputs and do them when I'm done, you can wait.

You can shoot while jumping, though it does turn your jump into a dive roll .

I feel you should commit to a roll, I've never actually seen roll cancel implemented well..or really effectively used in anything outside of a fighting game.

Cancelling melee besides heavy melee ( Heavy melee is cancellable right now, whether thats a bug or not) would be reasonable.

Cancelling stagger negates the point of staggering being a penalty for being hit, unless there's some sort of timed block mechanic.

Control lag - ties in with the character animations issue (trying to do melee charge attacks while in melee range is an exercise in frustration), also things like trying to run having a massive half-second delay.

I have not actually had this problem? I am not sure if its a perception thing on my part or a latency issue on yours. Cannot comment.

Enemy melee attacks - everything is a stun, a stagger, a knockback, a knockdown.

They've said they're looking into tweaking how much of this enemies can do.

Heavy melee weapons - what, move AND swing? Madness! Utter madness!

That should really be one of the penalties of using a heavier weapon, that is why the distinction betwen light and heavy weapons is a thing, plus they can be cancelled if you realize you dont want to commit to a swing.(again not sure if this a bug or not)

[tactical_surgeon]

I beleive that the lack of cancleing is an importent part of Warframe - If you jump in real life and you roll, you can't change your direction nor can you cancel that roll due to it being what keeps the landing soft (if you could cancel a roll you would take a damage penelty if we are being realistic here)

The lack of canceling movments forces the palyer to be desisive about what they do. So to me I would not like the ability to cancel rolls / other actions - I'm good with the movment how ti is-

Lastly the movment being finicky or whatnot - I feel ( when I play it ) as though my tenno has limited body movment that simulates natrual limitations - such as when you roll and out of the roll bring your gun up to a tight aim - well your tenno dosent instantly bring it up but has a slight pause between the roll and aiming to pull the gun up.

but yes, some animation smoothing would be nice

[Kse_]

If I'm not mistaken it's called consolititis.

No wonder people still play the old Quake games, Counter-Strike... There was no crap like that back then.

Still, while really frustrating, WF isn't THAT bad in this regard compared to other games.