alchemistjkt Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Let's be serious : DE submit 2 frames that they think suit the game. With colors and abilities already decided of course. And then players vote. 2 frames, 2 different gameplays, 2 different approaches of the game.at that point, why would they not just make both? its kinda like the models they have for the next series of weps that the council have to vote for. they already have model work done, and clearly have the theme in mind, so why not just make them all? its more like we are voting for what comes first as opposed to picking 1 or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Yeah... that's why I was first talking about Design Council and DE choosing 2 or 3 frames design among those submitted, and then launch a popular vote. So, no work wasted for DE. I don't know what's best for such a vote, but bringing the "people's choice" Warframe seemed interesting to me. Anyway. Edited August 23, 2013 by matto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaoKill123 Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Not really, Nova was chosen by the Design Council from designs made by players sent to both DE and Design Council, right? I'm talking about an event during which ALL players can have one vote, from a special page on Warframe's website after login. will agree with u IF players with lv2+ mastery are only allowed to vote, to prevent spamming of lv0 mastery account. a few days of gaming in WF will get u to lvl 2 mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeAtlas Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 will agree with u IF players with lv2+ mastery are only allowed to vote, to prevent spamming of lv0 mastery account. a few days of gaming in WF will get u to lvl 2 mastery. and polls usually last for a week and half so that's too low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h8seekr Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Damn guys, it's not like players will vote for abilites, colors and everything! Let's be serious : DE submit 2 frames that they think suit the game. With colors and abilities already decided of course. And then players vote. 2 frames, 2 different gameplays, 2 different approaches of the game. It's all "under control", the choice can't screw things up, and you retain gamers even more by giving them the feeling that they truly can have a strong impact on the decision making process. It's just that I feel a little concerned after what I see coming with Necro. About its design etc. I'm curious to know what people would choose, what the greatest number would choose. Not what happened. Please be a little better informed the next time you try to make things up.Design council Warframe phase 1: theme back in may 15th. Phase 1 poll in May 28th : Berzerker, Hawk, Earth, Necro, and Antimatter were chosen from player's' theme in phase 1. Design council Warframe phase 2: abilities back in June 5th. Phase 2 poll in June 20th for all four abilities. Design council Warframe phase 3: name in June 25th. Phase 3 poll in July 3rd. Edited August 23, 2013 by neKroMancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Would it be a possibility to either track the user with the first login date or the time spent on the game? Date of account signing up prior to the annoucement of the event sounds like a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Not what happened. Please be a little better informed the next time you try to make things up. lol, next time read the entire thread before telling me off. I didn't say that's how Necro was chosen, BUT I'm talking about my idea of a popular vote, and how it could be done. Regards. Edited August 23, 2013 by matto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Not what happened. Please be a little better informed the next time you try to make things up. Design council Warframe phase 1: theme back in may 15th. Phase 1 poll in May 28th : Berzerker, Hawk, Earth, Necro, and Antimatter were chosen from player's' theme in phase 1. Design council Warframe phase 2: abilities back in June 5th. Phase 2 poll in June 20th for all four abilities. Design council Warframe phase 3: name in June 25th. Phase 3 poll in July 3rd. And if memory serves, only one poll resulted in a majority opinion. Every other poll was a simple plurality. A structure that DE should change if they do this again. Edit: Also, DC has virtually no control over anything. We cannot even make topics in the DC forum. We vote on what is presented to us. Edited August 23, 2013 by Kyrkitao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 lol, next time read the entire thread before telling me off. I didn't say that's how Necro was chosen, BUT I'm talking about my idea of a popular vote, and how it could be done. Regards. More like lol you. This is how Nova was made. We did decide on everything but the base stat. As I said, DE should make priority poll instead of popular vote. What comes first > what should be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C.Santos Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Nova is the result of a restricted desgin council vote, can't imagine the abomination that would come out of a popular vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 I'm not talking about the Design Council actually, but more about an event which would allow players (and the greatest number, not just the DC), to vote between 2 frames. As a way to get in the game a frame that would be "the people's choice". A vote that would be submitted if the Tennos deserve it by completing a mission campaign such as they do during weekends. How the Design Council is runned wasn't the topic of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 And if memory serves, only one poll resulted in a majority opinion. Every other poll was a simple plurality. A structure that DE should change if they do this again.Edit: Also, DC has virtually no control over anything. We cannot even make topics in the DC forum. We vote on what is presented to us. We did present our ideas and they chose from that pool. That's enough imo. There is no way to create a poll virtually on everything we presented with in phase 1. A degree of control is required in order to create semblance of popularity. If they had us vote on everything, every idea presented at that time, I think we'll be still voting until today. Moreover, vote does create plurality. It's the nature of the methodology that sometimes creates stalemate between choices. Even if DE decide to make priority vote with only two choices, there are chance that one choice will lose by an extremely narrow margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Nova is the result of a restricted desgin council vote, can't imagine the abomination that would come out of a popular vote. And what if the greatest number doesn't make the same vote? We don't really know. Is the DC representative of the Warframe Universe? Maybe. I don't say yes, I don't say no. I'm just not sure people in a larger number would make the same decision. Anyway, it's DE who submit votes, right ? DE who chooses what to submit. If they decide to put a frame on the vote, that this frame wins and that we are not satisfied by it, instead of blaming people who voted, maybe it would be wiser to blame those who submitted it to the vote. That's why a popular and massive vote couldn't be a disaster, as DE decides what to submit. It would go in the same direction as their plans anyway as it's under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 And what if the greatest number doesn't make the same vote? We don't really know. Is the DC representative of the Warframe Universe? Maybe. I don't say yes, I don't say no. I'm just not sure people in a larger number would make the same decision. Anyway, it's DE who submit votes, right ? DE who chooses what to submit. If they decide to put a frame on the vote, that this frame wins and that we are not satisfied by it, instead of blaming people who voted, maybe it would be wiser to blame those who submitted it to the vote. That's why a popular and massive vote couldn't be a disaster, as DE decides what to submit. It would go in the same direction as their plans anyway as it's under control. Oh, you have no idea how popular vote could go bad. I think you should change your wording from "popular" vote to "priority" vote since it's what you're asking for; DE give us a choice of what get into the game first. Just like the current Tenno primary poll that's happening right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderain Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Not really, Nova's theme was voted on from a shortlist by DE, Nova's powers were voted on from a pre-chosen shortlist, Nova's name was voted on from a shortlist. The visual design was all DEvs, as was most of the meatier choices. DC just chose from a menu (which was sometimes based on suggestion like the name and powers), they didn't cook at all. Finally, someone who isn't overestimating what we actually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 DE should let us vote on scarves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Even the plain suggestion of something like "let everyone to vote" ignited such an argue. Yep. Pretty typical on here. Honestly I'd want something a little different. I think the whole community should be able to participate in a 'Vote on the next Theme' poll that is available to the public. DE should pick a bunch of ideas they like from the community and make a poll of it. After the winner is found DE could put together a few different possible versions of the winning theme. So, for instance: -Water Frame - Healing/Mobility skillset. -Water Frame - Ally Buff/Enemy Debuff skillset. -Water Frame - Mobility/CC skillset Just three examples of a completed skillset with different spins. The design council would vote on that part. I'd like that just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrkitao Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 We did present our ideas and they chose from that pool. That's enough imo. There is no way to create a poll virtually on everything we presented with in phase 1. A degree of control is required in order to create semblance of popularity. If they had us vote on everything, every idea presented at that time, I think we'll be still voting until today. Moreover, vote does create plurality. It's the nature of the methodology that sometimes creates stalemate between choices. I'm not advocating voting on every thing suggested (though I can't say I agreed with DE's choices for the polls). What I advocated for, then and now, was a tournament system. Once DE had determined the things they were willing to entertain as ideas, they could have paired them off in a series of short polls (not a week and a half) with the winners moving to another round of short polls. My argument was against the methodology that created a plurality instead of a majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) Kind of agreed with Blatanfool. (except for the aqua thing) I'll explain my thinking. I'm concerned about this game with the release of the frame Necro. Why ? Because this game is turning into a classical MMORPG style for the frames. Elementalists (damn, look at what people post in the concept part of the forum : aqua type, plasma type, air type), Healer and now Necro (which kind of reminds me of Guildwar). Also for what I saw about the design of Necro, its look is too... paranormal/magic/I-don't-know... Anime? I joined this game as I thought it would be a real TPS with a kind of cyberpunk/ninja/robot style and look what is happening ! Our weapons are turning into secondary combat style as everyone is using explosions so fast and so massive. I have no choice but Slash Dash everything with my Excalibur to get targets before Nova's explosions. And it's not fun guys, I just do it because I have to for my stats. So I finish my defense missions with 50% of damages, more mobs killed than anyone with me. But what's the fun in that? I remember when I watched the first videos of Warframe last year, video of Excalibur (my frame), and I wasn't expecting it to use magic or things like that. More like a bunch of cyberpunk frames doing real good moves, more tactical than explosive. I plaid guilty as my second frame is Ember. But I'd like to see more frames like Ash, Vauban or Excalibur. Not frames like that. And I was wondering that maybe a lot of gamers think the same, and are more atypical, more nonconformist. Those who play because the first concept was so cool, and free, and doesn't want to pay to be in the Design Council, but will eventually quit the game as its turning into something different, not Ninja enough. Edited August 24, 2013 by matto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numot Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 You know, I wouldn't have an issue with the DC existence if the members were chosen based upon some other merit that wasn't their wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 You've got to have your business to developp the game unfortunately. As all the things can be dropped or obtained through missions, platinium are not necessary (except for clan stuffs). So that was their way to get real money from players... They should developp the cosmetic part for money, and change the concept of DC. And I'm sure that in the actual state of the DC, a lot of people are disappointed to have paid so much for a system that doesn't make them real "decision makers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DresiK. Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 and then 10 year olds would keep on making new accounts and rape that vote button over and over again so no. it's already happening somewhere in the DC so it would get worse if it's in the community requirements : Mastery Rank 10 or be a Founder ( M.R.10 should solve the ,, 10 year kid '' problem ^^ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 Actually I don't see why 10 yo couldn't vote... It seems a bit discriminating for a popular vote. The main point would just be to prevent people to use fake accounts to vote multiple times. That's why I was talking about basing the vote on hours of playing at the time the annoucement is made. You can't have like 80 hours of playing with a fake account if you make a vote the day after the annoucement. See my point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 At H-0, when the annoucement is made, you must have already a game playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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