Vauban Rework Idea: Vauban, the master tactician. A conservative rework.

[-CM-NineFingers]

Since Vauban reworks are trend now, I decided to share my thoughts on our beloved trainframe.

Passive: Enhanced munitions - Vauban's weapons and weapons used by Vauban's allies gain 1m additional punch through, area weapons gain 30% increased blast radius, and non hitscan bullets gain 25% extra flight speed.

 

Tesla - Tesla grenades get a 100% status chance at 100% strength. throwing 3 or more mines closer than 3m causes them to link in closed shapes, tethering and slowing enemiees who step in those areas. (note: tethers are not meant to be unbreakable, just as an effect to show what enemies are being slowed down)

 

Resupply (former Minelayer) - Vauban drops a small bot, similar to the ones deployed by corpus snipers. This bot follows Vauban for 20s and stuns nearby enemies (10m radius) with an electric pulse every 10s (both duration of the bot and delay between stuns is affected by duration, so you always get a pulse on spawn, another one mid duration and a last one at the end). Enemies killed while stunned have a 15% higher chance of dropping energy orbs. Both Vauban and his allies withing 10m of the bot gain:

                    50% ammo efficiency - Weapons now use one round for each two shots.

                    Enhanced shield regeneration - Shield regeneration rate is 100% higher.

                    --> Synergy with Bastille and Vortex - Casting Bastille or Vortex while the resupply bot is active will cause the bot to "pick up" the greneda and carry it. That would allow Vauban to drop a bastille to pick up nearby enemies on the move, or bunch them up with vortex. The bot will always pick the newest instance of those abilities.

Bastille - Limit the amount of bastilles to 4. No further changes. EDIT: Another possibility would be to remove the enemy cap on immobile bastilles, and add the effects of Repelling Bastille to the ability when used with Resupply. Change the augment effect to give a 25% squadwide damage reduction inside bastille's area, and slowing enemy projectiles a 25%.

Vortex - No changes.

 

Thank you to anyone who reads the entire thing, and I'll appreciate any constructive feedback on this idea.

Edited August 5, 2018 by -CM-NineFingers
Corrected some typos. second edit: Added changes from r/Warframe feedback.

[Dishonored]

Ammo resupply sounds cool 😃
i always out of ammo during eidolon hunt when i used my sniper.
abiitilies that can recover ammo would be pretty handy in certain event.

[-CM-NineFingers]

hace 15 minutos, HEA-Devazone dijo:

Ammo resupply sounds cool 😃
i always out of ammo during eidolon hunt when i used my sniper.
abiitilies that can recover ammo would be pretty handy in certain event.

Thanks! since we already have frames capable of giving us shields, health and energy, I thought Vauban could give us more ammo.

[-CM-NineFingers]

Post edited: added changes to Bastille.

[OwoTy]

I Like the Idea 😄

[-CM-NineFingers]

hace 8 minutos, Dan-Shepard dijo:

I Like the Idea 😄

Thanks!

[AlphaAceEX]

Perhaps Tesla can be thrown in triples or duos. Enhanced Shield regeneration can be added with less regen delay. The bastille limit may be 2 but can be increased through augment (Read: mallet, Atlas' wall)

 

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

I feel my issue with the resupply suggestion is vauban already has abilities that provide cc/ utility, there is no need to replace 1(or 4) cc ability with another cc ability. I feel he needs something that either deals damage to enemies or debuffs them, hence why the turret suggestions lately have been popular.

[-CM-NineFingers]

hace 6 horas, (XB1)Nightseid dijo:

I feel my issue with the resupply suggestion is vauban already has abilities that provide cc/ utility, there is no need to replace 1(or 4) cc ability with another cc ability. I feel he needs something that either deals damage to enemies or debuffs them, hence why the turret suggestions lately have been popular.

Thing is, damage from the turret won't be high enough to be a considerable addition. You can see from specters and atlas ult that damage dealt by NPCs will always be pretty low.
Also, the utility of the Resupply ability is not CC. An electric proc every 10s is not enough to CC consistently, and it's there only to give the bot a little more survivability while it performs its main task, that is increasing ammo efficiency and moving the bastille or vortex around. As a secondary objective, that proc is there to reward players for prioritizing the enemies close to the bot with an increase chance of energy drops.

There's no frame that can help with weapon efficiency right now. We can get health, armor, shields and overshields, crit, status, damage, but the only thing no frame offers is increased ammo economy. The idea is for Vauban to fill that role, while keeping his CC high enough and making it more versatile, turning it into the only hard CC that can be moved around, instead to fixed to a location.

[-CM-NineFingers]

En 5/8/2018 a las 19:23, AlphaAceEX dijo:

Perhaps Tesla can be thrown in triples or duos. Enhanced Shield regeneration can be added with less regen delay. The bastille limit may be 2 but can be increased through augment (Read: mallet, Atlas' wall)

 

Personally I'm against augments that only increase the number of abilities you can have active. 2 Bastilles seem too low, that's why I went for frost's 4 limit.
 

As for the teslas, it's a neat idea, but I don't think throwing a bunch of them at the same time would give you any considerable advantage, besides blanketing the floor faster, something you wouldn't need with the changes I'm suggesting, since your focus on them would now be "get one at each corner of the hallway to slow down enemies" instead of the "blanket everything and hope it procs" approach we're forced to as of now.

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

4 hours ago, -CM-NineFingers said:

Thing is, damage from the turret won't be high enough to be a considerable addition. You can see from specters and atlas ult that damage dealt by NPCs will always be pretty low.
Also, the utility of the Resupply ability is not CC. An electric proc every 10s is not enough to CC consistently, and it's there only to give the bot a little more survivability while it performs its main task, that is increasing ammo efficiency and moving the bastille or vortex around. As a secondary objective, that proc is there to reward players for prioritizing the enemies close to the bot with an increase chance of energy drops.

There's no frame that can help with weapon efficiency right now. We can get health, armor, shields and overshields, crit, status, damage, but the only thing no frame offers is increased ammo economy. The idea is for Vauban to fill that role, while keeping his CC high enough and making it more versatile, turning it into the only hard CC that can be moved around, instead to fixed to a location.

So a popular idea in the forums I've noticed for turrets is have them mod-ible like an exhaulted weapon and you can choose between different types (machine gun, rail, etc). This could address the peak damage you are speaking to.

Dont get me wrong I like your resupply bot Idea but i do not feel it gives enough "bang for the buck" to take an ability slot - resupply (in my opinion) would work better as a passive ability. Additionally a movable Bastille and vortex sounds nice but if you go build for efficiency you can cast these abilities multiple times.

 

[-CM-NineFingers]

hace 2 horas, (XB1)Nightseid dijo:

So a popular idea in the forums I've noticed for turrets is have them mod-ible like an exhaulted weapon and you can choose between different types (machine gun, rail, etc). This could address the peak damage you are speaking to.

Dont get me wrong I like your resupply bot Idea but i do not feel it gives enough "bang for the buck" to take an ability slot - resupply (in my opinion) would work better as a passive ability. Additionally a movable Bastille and vortex sounds nice but if you go build for efficiency you can cast these abilities multiple times.

 

That's exactly the problem, Vauban is the only frame that can spam hard CC mindlessly. To bring him in line with the other frames, the amount of instances of bastille and vortex need to be capped; maybe not at four, but definitely need a cap. Also, the main objective of it moving is to give different flavors of CC; A resupply bot with bastille would push enemies away from your path, and a vortex one would gather all enemies it faces for easy killing (synergizing too with the passive, since the 1m punch thru for all non explosive weapons makes you able to hit all enemies trapped at once).

I like turrets too to be honest, but DE is not gonna make a new moddable system, it's just not gonna happen. The amount of work required for that would be incredible, and if that change comes, it will be in a minimum of six months. Besides, they already said (and reworks from the last two years show that same principle) that they don't pretend to  give massive changes to the frames, and they're more focused on revamping abilities. I still remember when DE listened to feedback and just acted on it, instead of the "we don't plan big changes" they flair everytime a frame is up for a rework. So an exalted turret is  definitely out of the drawing board. I'm not even sure they would bring something like resupply, to be honest.

As a passive, I find resupply would be immensely overpowered. It basically doubles your modded max ammo and mag size, even if we substract the bot and the shield regen.

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

57 minutes ago, -CM-NineFingers said:

That's exactly the problem, Vauban is the only frame that can spam hard CC mindlessly. To bring him in line with the other frames, the amount of instances of bastille and vortex need to be capped; maybe not at four, but definitely need a cap. Also, the main objective of it moving is to give different flavors of CC; A resupply bot with bastille would push enemies away from your path, and a vortex one would gather all enemies it faces for easy killing (synergizing too with the passive, since the 1m punch thru for all non explosive weapons makes you able to hit all enemies trapped at once).

I like turrets too to be honest, but DE is not gonna make a new moddable system, it's just not gonna happen. The amount of work required for that would be incredible, and if that change comes, it will be in a minimum of six months. Besides, they already said (and reworks from the last two years show that same principle) that they don't pretend to  give massive changes to the frames, and they're more focused on revamping abilities. I still remember when DE listened to feedback and just acted on it, instead of the "we don't plan big changes" they flair everytime a frame is up for a rework. So an exalted turret is  definitely out of the drawing board. I'm not even sure they would bring something like resupply, to be honest.

As a passive, I find resupply would be immensely overpowered. It basically doubles your modded max ammo and mag size, even if we substract the bot and the shield regen.

Ok, so Bastille and vortex is capped (I'm ok with that) but how? Can only 4 b/v active at one time, if so I can recast the ability (like frost bubble) to change its position - really no need for the bot. If I cannot recast while 4 are active then I consider that a big nerf just so the bot has a purpose.

Now who controls the bot? Vauban or is its AI? If its vauban that's a lot of spent energy to rearrange my b/v abilities, if the a.i. then that's going to be a mess with the bot constantly rearranging the layout as I move and kill, and eventually drop another b/v as their timers goes.

The moddable system already exist and we have a consumable that deploys a turret... So implementation is not the issue, it would be balancing it. The issue for a implementing a bot would be AI and the active ability when it's being handled by the bot - does keep going or does it stop? Etc.

Resupply (concept) would not be overpowered as passive as long as you drop the numbers a bit i.e. its 10 to 15% to ammo and mag cap.

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by (XB1)Nightseid

[-CM-NineFingers]

hace 13 horas, (XB1)Nightseid dijo:

Ok, so Bastille and vortex is capped (I'm ok with that) but how? Can only 4 b/v active at one time, if so I can recast the ability (like frost bubble) to change its position - really no need for the bot. If I cannot recast while 4 are active then I consider that a big nerf just so the bot has a purpose.

Now who controls the bot? Vauban or is its AI? If its vauban that's a lot of spent energy to rearrange my b/v abilities, if the a.i. then that's going to be a mess with the bot constantly rearranging the layout as I move and kill, and eventually drop another b/v as their timers goes.

The moddable system already exist and we have a consumable that deploys a turret... So implementation is not the issue, it would be balancing it. The issue for a implementing a bot would be AI and the active ability when it's being handled by the bot - does keep going or does it stop? Etc.

Resupply (concept) would not be overpowered as passive as long as you drop the numbers a bit i.e. its 10 to 15% to ammo and mag cap.

 

The AI is still there, since the bots are already ingame. If you read the entire concept, the bot only grabs the last instance of B/V, meaning you can place 3 bastilles freely wherever you need them, and let one be carried by the bot, whose only purpose in life is to follow Vauban or wait in a location (same as all npcs, stays close to the frame unless you press X to make it defend a location). I'm not even sure at this point if you're really concerned about energy usage on resupply or just trying to bring as many negatives as possible. Of course you could recast B/V when you reach 4, it will just eliminate the oldest instance. It's just common sense, all abilities with multiple instances work that way. And I repeat: the objective of the bot is to give Vauban an edge over other CC frames. It gives him hard CC on the move or stationary. There's currently no possibility of hard CC while you're on the move.

Also I agree Resupply wouldn't be overpowered at 10-15%. But only because that would make it as bad as Vauban's passive is right now. mag size and capacity would only be worth it at values over 40%, and that would go way over what a passive should do. Also, ammo efficiency below 50%  would be clunky and hard to implement, so getting only +15% mag size as a passive doesn't seem good enough for me.

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

4 hours ago, -CM-NineFingers said:

The AI is still there, since the bots are already ingame. If you read the entire concept, the bot only grabs the last instance of B/V, meaning you can place 3 bastilles freely wherever you need them, and let one be carried by the bot, whose only purpose in life is to follow Vauban or wait in a location (same as all npcs, stays close to the frame unless you press X to make it defend a location). I'm not even sure at this point if you're really concerned about energy usage on resupply or just trying to bring as many negatives as possible. Of course you could recast B/V when you reach 4, it will just eliminate the oldest instance. It's just common sense, all abilities with multiple instances work that way. And I repeat: the objective of the bot is to give Vauban an edge over other CC frames. It gives him hard CC on the move or stationary. There's currently no possibility of hard CC while you're on the move.

Also I agree Resupply wouldn't be overpowered at 10-15%. But only because that would make it as bad as Vauban's passive is right now. mag size and capacity would only be worth it at values over 40%, and that would go way over what a passive should do. Also, ammo efficiency below 50%  would be clunky and hard to implement, so getting only +15% mag size as a passive doesn't seem good enough for me.

I'm not concerned about engery consumption (I am running an efficiency build), so most likely I will simply recast the abilities unlike other cc frame his abilities have the shortest cast time (that's a massive edge right there) hence I see no point in having a bot move the "b/v mines".

So then what number would you suggest a resupply passive be (so its neither useless or overpowered)?

Edited August 8, 2018 by (XB1)Nightseid