Elements: Make Them More Than Damage Buffs

[Paradoxbomb]

So, as everyone is already aware, DE is already in the midst of reworking the damage system, namely armor and elemental damage. And while elemental damage being more useful is a nice touch, I think this would be a good opportunity to add/improve the utility of elements instead of simply keep them as more or less straight buffs to damage. At present, the only elements that have a significant effect are ice and poison, and it would be great to see all the elements have more interesting and reliable effects to add some diversity to killing enemies over stacking more damage onto our guns.

 

 

Ice

 

Current effect: Slows down enemies and deals double damage to shields.

 

Changes: Pretty much fine as is.

 

 

Electricity

 

Current effect: Stuns enemies and deals increased damage to Corpus units, which is good. However, it has the major flaw of not being able to stun shielded enemies, which is impractical considering half the Corpus units are sheilded, negating the effect unless you take the time to punch through every units shield.

 

Changes: Like ice, electricity does double damage to shields (they are electrical after all) Can stun through shield; in fact, the stun chance is actually amplified on shielded enemies. Remains highly effective on Corpus, average against Grineer, and poor against Infested.

 

 

Fire

 

Current effect:  Absolutely Nothing (okay it has a brief stun, though this is less reliable and essentially the same thing as electricity. Also does increased damaged to infested).

 

Changes: DoT of course, because fire. The damage over time functions similarly to the Acrid's poison, dealing an amount of damage equal to a portion of your weapon's damage at a high rate of frequency (however, this effect WILL NOT stack). Where fire differs from poison is that it deals double damage to infested, normal damage to Corpus Crewmen and light Grineer, and only 50% damage to Armored Grineer and MOAs due to their efficient insulation. Fire has the bonus effect of being spreadable between tightly packed groups. Fire DoT is reduced by shields.

 

 

Armor Pierce:

 

Current effect: Simply adds on a percent of damage that is unaffected by armor. A strange design IMO since it still allow for armor ignoring weapons to use it and effectively become even stronger.

 

Changes: I'm going to go out on a limb here first of all and ASSUME that DE is making armor block a set amount of damage at all levels (ie: a standard Grineer's armor reduces damage by 1/2 at any level). Instead of adding on additional damage, Armor penetration simply reduces the amount of damage that is mitigated by armor. For example, against that 1/2 armor reduction, a bullet with 50% armor piercing is now only reduced by 1/4. No extra damage should be dealt, and AI weapons should not draw any benefit from AP mods.

 

 

Poison

 

Current effect: Only available through some weapons/warframes, the effects of which vary. The most well known iteration is the acrid, which deals an armor ignoring DoT that deals x3 damage to MOAs.

 

Changes: Change the name of this element to Acid or Corrosion, and more importantly give this element mods. Since it already has significant use against MOAs and Grineer, this should be it's niche, deals a percent based DoT (like it already does) that deals double damage to armored Grineer and Corpus synthetics, normal damage to Corpus crewman and light Grineer, and 50% damage to the Infested, since it is technically derived from infested cells. Poison (Acid) has the benefit of reducing armor (ie: if an enemy's armor mitigates 50% damage, after taking acidic damage, the armor will only be able to negate 40% damage from all sources). Poison damage is reduced by shields.

 

 

Laser:

 

Current effects: None to anyone's knowledge

 

Changes: Change the name to Ionic (and add a mod of course) instead of dealing normal damage, give it the unique ability to cause a portion of your weapon's damage to bypass shields. Why is this useful at all? Well, if your a fan of weapons like bows or sniping pistols, I imagine that shields must be the bane of your existence since a lot more enemies have them now, and they essential prevent you from scoring double damage on headshots until you break the shield or hope you score a critical and penetrate it. With Ionic elemental damage,you won't be dealing full damage on headshots, but you can come pretty close (assuming Ionic mods max at 90%, only 10% of your total damage will be mitigated by the shield). It removes the hassle of having to worry about shields on Heavies and Bosses for weapons with low fire rates that rely on that sweet, sweet headshot damage.

 

 

Possbile new element: Antimatter

 

Inspired by everyone's favorite bombastic pyschopath Nova, Anitmatter has the ability to "Prime" a target. They won't be slowed down like those effected by M Prime, and the damage boost is only +50% rather than +100%, but it does still end for the bad guys in a pretty explosion that deals damage to nearby enemies equal to 75% of it's health.

 

 

Factors affecting elemental effects: Because Warframe's mod system allows for players to equip all elements at once if they so choose to, and having all these effects would clearly be OP, the elemental effect should only have a percent chance to take effect rather than being definite 100% of the time. This chance is effected by factors such as:

 

-Weapon type (SMGs have a low chance to activate elements while Snipers have a high chance)

-Enemy's natural resistance

-Rank of the elemental mod

 

However, just because the chance to take effect and the payoff is reduced on resilient enemies. the chance is always still there. For example, the stun chance and duration of an Ancient with electricity is reduced, but can still take effect regardless of what level they are.

 

 

 

[Lady_Khaos]

I am definitely a fan of your suggestions for changing the elementals. Not sure how I feel about Antimatter.... The change to laser is good, but is too good to be put into a mod.

 

Also, an Acid mod would pretty much replace Armor Piercing, even if it maxed out lower and was made rare, especially since it would be doing damage on top of weakening armor.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Khaos_Zand3r

[Paradoxbomb]

I am definitely a fan of your suggestions for changing the elementals. Not sure how I feel about Antimatter.... The change to laser is good, but is too good to be put into a mod.

 

Meh, Anitmatter's just a fun possible addition, I'd be fine whether or not it stuck with Nova or not (though explosive elemental damage of some sort would be a nice addition)

 

I don't see Laser damage being OP, enemy shields only really effect weapons with low DPS that rely on headshots or high damage, like bows. Perhaps it could be strictly a Sniper/bow mod (this may require changing the Dera's damage type), but all it really does is allow them to deal *almost* full headshot damage through shields, which they need to compensate against bosses with ultra-fast shields.

[michaelwii]

Something about ice:

 

Once an enemy who has taken ice damage dies, they slo-mo fall to the ground, acting as a meat shield for enemies behind them (occurs primarily, if not exclusively with grineer). I find this ridiculous, as they should NOT continue to have a "decreased mobility" once they're dead. 

 

Not sure if this is because I primarily go with a Boltor and/or Akboltos and the bolts somehow also affect it, but it's still something that should be changed about how the ice damage works.

 

Like changes to electric and fire. Anti-matter is interesting. Not entirely sure how poison interacts with armor so it's a no go/no comment on that for me.

Edited August 27, 2013 by michaelwii

[Scherhardt]

Soon man, I heard this comes with Armor 2.0

[Paradoxbomb]

Something about ice:

 

Once an enemy who has taken ice damage dies, they slo-mo fall to the ground, acting as a meat shield for enemies behind them (occurs primarily, if not exclusively with grineer). I find this ridiculous, as they should NOT continue to have a "decreased mobility" once they're dead. 

 

Not sure if this is because I primarily go with a Boltor and/or Akboltos and the bolts somehow also affect it, but it's still something that should be changed about how the ice damage works.

 

Like changes to electric and fire. Anti-matter is interesting. Not entirely sure how poison interacts with armor so it's a no go/no comment on that for me.

 

I know enemies sometimes explode when frozen, I think this just needs to be more consistent so that their bodies stop getting in the way. I assume if you use more than one element, that element's death animation overrides the ice explosion death.

 

I was suggesting that poison be changed to "acid" since it already deals significant damage to MOAs (robots) and is unhindered by armor (Grineer). I know the damage bonus is technically just the poison essentially auto-hitting MOAs' crit spot, but it gives the illusion that it's naturally effective against metal and armor, and making that canon would also make it fire's opposite.

 

 

Soon man, I heard this comes with Armor 2.0

 

I know, I'm just hoping that we see elements expanded on more rather than just having their damage buffed (even so, just a buff will definitely be an improvement).

[MECT_HET]

fire damage should be limited stackable, because fire needs time to grow the full strength. After reaching limit, dot is becoming prolongable via new shots. Reducing enemies' defences for some amount, because of burning, high chance to cause panic.

 

armor piercing should ignore some amount of armor and penetrate some obstacles, entities, walls and doors included. Only armor piercing mod will inflict max damage per hit at the critical point, a head for example. 

 

Fully agreed with renaming poison to corrode, although there's always should be a chance (lesser than fire) to cause a panic, because it's the same burning effect. 

 

Also would love to see they're add this explosion effect, esclusive for a cryo rounds atm, to every single type of element. 

[Paradoxbomb]

fire damage should be limited stackable, because fire needs time to grow the full strength. After reaching limit, dot is becoming prolongable via new shots. Reducing enemies' defences for some amount, because of burning, high chance to cause panic.

 

armor piercing should ignore some amount of armor and penetrate some obstacles, entities, walls and doors included. Only armor piercing mod will inflict max damage per hit at the critical point, a head for example. 

 

Fully agreed with renaming poison to corrode, although there's always should be a chance (lesser than fire) to cause a panic, because it's the same burning effect. 

 

Also would love to see they're add this explosion effect, esclusive for a cryo rounds atm, to every single type of element. 

 

A fair point, perhaps there should be some stacking involved with fire/acid to reach it's full potential, it's just not unlimited like the Acrid since this is clearly a game breaking mechanic. I think fire does make enemies panic (sometimes) so that effect would have to be made more prominent for both DoT elements.

 

Not sure how I'd feel about all elements creating an explosion on death, I think disintegration/burning alive suits fire, acid, and electricity cosmetically, though it would be interesting for high ranked element mods to randomly cause an AoE explosion on death.

[MECT_HET]

A fair point, perhaps there should be some stacking involved with fire/acid to reach it's full potential, it's just not unlimited like the Acrid since this is clearly a game breaking mechanic. I think fire does make enemies panic (sometimes) so that effect would have to be made more prominent for both DoT elements.

 

Not sure how I'd feel about all elements creating an explosion on death, I think disintegration/burning alive suits fire, acid, and electricity cosmetically, though it would be interesting for high ranked element mods to randomly cause an AoE explosion on death.

As for my me3mp experience, there's pretty easy way to create every single elemental explosions:

cryo - cryoblast

electro - lightning chaining splash

fire - a common BOOM with some incendiary shrapnel

acid - same as fire but in green tone

antimatter - same as nova's ult (fast splash and slow desintegrating)

et cetera

 

Should be pretty useful and cinematic-like. Well. at least I'm agree to see only visual such as cryo rounds do atm. Because I like all these explosions.

[HAYABU5A]

there should be a longer duration bonus effect if u use only ONE damage type over 90% on a firearm

ie;

electricty - electromagnetic energy does same as radial disarm, interferring weapon systems forcing enemy to melee or into melee range

fire - reduces enemy ability to see you/aquire target (takes longer to target u/pod/teammates when ignited)

ice - actually freezes enemy like frosts freeze but for short duration

ap - innate 10% stagger chance

 

wont work if u mixed elemental damage types so u have to choose

to get over 90% u have to stack nightmare mods with elemental damage mod so rifle will be fire, shotgun ap, pistol ice, melee electricity and complements each type perfectly 

[Paradoxbomb]

As for my me3mp experience, there's pretty easy way to create every single elemental explosions:

cryo - cryoblast

electro - lightning chaining splash

fire - a common BOOM with some incendiary shrapnel

acid - same as fire but in green tone

antimatter - same as nova's ult (fast splash and slow desintegrating)

et cetera

 

Should be pretty useful and cinematic-like. Well. at least I'm agree to see only visual such as cryo rounds do atm. Because I like all these explosions.

 

there should be a longer duration bonus effect if u use only ONE damage type over 90% on a firearm

ie;

electricty - electromagnetic energy does same as radial disarm, interferring weapon systems forcing enemy to melee or into melee range

fire - reduces enemy ability to see you/aquire target (takes longer to target u/pod/teammates when ignited)

ice - actually freezes enemy like frosts freeze but for short duration

ap - innate 10% stagger chance

 

wont work if u mixed elemental damage types so u have to choose

to get over 90% u have to stack nightmare mods with elemental damage mod so rifle will be fire, shotgun ap, pistol ice, melee electricity and complements each type perfectly 

 

I did suggest some kind of AoE effect with elements some time ago, but no one really seemed to be behind it. But if more than person thinks it should be a thing, I'll consider adding it to the OP to see if others agree.

[Paradoxbomb]

Necro bump... I think. (how much time has to pass before it counts as necro?)

[Destro6677]

+1

[Mainabi]

I like the borderlands elemental system with slag,

 

slag an enemy to increase elemental dmg 

[Paradoxbomb]

I like the borderlands elemental system with slag,

 

slag an enemy to increase elemental dmg 

 

That's sort of what I was proposing with having Antimatter as an element, although it's not quite as potent a damage bonus as the x2 damage from using M Prime (still ends with an explosion though, because you know, explosions).