timerwin63 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Disclaimer. The following is a massive wall of text, but I felt that it was necessary. I intend to use this thread for constructive criticism of the Lato and Skana weapon balancing, and if it gets enough support, I'd like to get DE's attention. If you're only interested in the weapon changes, they start after the numbered list, although I strongly encourage you to read all of it. All the information found in nested spoilers can be found here in a more condensed spreadsheet format.Greeting, fellow Tenno. I've recently begun browsing the forums and taking note of seemingly extremely divisive issues. One such common issue is the debate that is apparently constantly raging about whether or not to buff Founders' weapons or not. As a result, I've spent the last several days attempting to rebalance the Lato and Skana families to a point where the community can agree that this rebalance would be ideal for everyone.One of the first things that stood out was the lack of MK-1 weapons in the Lato and Skana families, despite their presence in every other family of starter weapons. I hope to fix that by adding a MK-1 Lato and MK-1 Skana to the game in place of their regular counterparts in Vor's Prize as starter weapons.I'd also like to preface this discussion by saying that I am not a founder. I missed my chance to be a founder, and while I would love to have the Lato Prime, Skana Prime, and Excalibur Prime, I recognize that these items are exclusives that were given to the people that gave DE a whopping $1,388,000 ("Solar Landmark" section) in Grand Master money alone. I recognize that this group of individuals has funded a game that I love and enjoy playing, and that, without them, it's possible that none of us would be able to get to play it today, and they deserve to have weapons that are usable in high level content where they're bound to be.Next, I'd like to address some of the more common concerns from the rest of the WF community about buffing Founders' weapons. Keep in mind, I'm not simply suggesting we buff Founders' weapons, I'm also suggesting an entire rework of the two weapon families. 1: "I can't get the Founders' Weapons so they deserve to be bad weapons, used only as trophies." There's really not much I can say about this one. This train of thought is childish and honestly, I'd expect better from this community. This is a sentiment I often hear voiced by people who joined the game after the Founders program was finished, and is quite unpleasant to read. If this is your belief, please, take it elsewhere as it's not constructive and as such, I don't think it belongs in this thread. 2: "This game offers you everything for free, no one should be able to just pay to get the best weapons." The changes I'm proposing don't make the Founders' weapons the best weapons in the game by a long shot, and I have the numbers to back it up. No, buffing the Founders' weapons does not make the game "pay to win." No, you're not missing out on anything except for mastery fodder by not having these weapons. As previously stated, if this argument is your intention, please don't bring it into this thread, as I want to keep this a place for constructive feeback only. 3: "Founders knew that they were buying cosmetic items when they purchased the Founders' packs. Why change that now?" Founders were promised exclusive weapons and a frame when they purchased the Founders' Packs. Nowhere in the agreement they assumed with DE when they purchased said packs was a clause that said "Oh, by the way, your weapons will only be cosmetic accessories in the future and/or get tossed into oblivion with the rest of the mastery fodder." These weapons are not skins, and should be treated as weapons. 4: "The Lato and Skana are starter weapons, and as such, the Lato Prime and Skana Prime are starter primes. Why make them anything better than a regular weapon?" I'll address this concern shortly. Just know that I've taken it into account.Burst DPS and Melee DPS were calculated with (Crit Chance * Crit Multi + (1 - Crit Chance)) * Damage/Hit * Attack RateSustained DPS calculated as (Burst DPS) * (Mag Size / Fire Rate) / (Mag Size / Fire Rate + Reload Time)These equations gave me values within rounding error to those shown on Warframe-Builder.com for existing weapons, so I stuck with them.Without further ado, I'd like to present my fixes. I'll start with the Lato family.The Current Lato Family: Lato: Total Damage: 18Impact: 4.5Puncture: 4.5Slash: 9Crit Chance: 5.0%Crit Multiplier: 1.8xStatus Chance: 1.0%Fire Rate: 6.7 rounds/secondAccuracy: 18.2Mag Size: 15Reload Time: 1.0sBurst DPS: 125.42Sustained DPS: 86.7Production Cost: 10,000 Credits in the Market Aklato: Total Damage: 18Impact: 2.7Puncture: 4.5Slash: 10.8Crit Chance: 2.5%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 1.0%Fire Rate: 8.3 rounds/secondAccuracy: 11.1Mag Size: 30Reload Time: 2.4sBurst DPS: 151.27Sustained DPS: 90.91Production Cost: 25,000 Credits in the Market Lato Vandal: Total Damage: 20Impact: 3Puncture: 5Slash: 12Crit Chance: 7.5%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 5.0%Fire Rate: 5.0 rounds/secondAccuracy: 23.0Mag Size: 15Reload Time: 1.2sBurst DPS: 107.5Sustained DPS: 76.79 Lato Prime: Total Damage: 21Impact: 2Puncture: 4Slash: 15Crit Chance: 5.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 5.0%Fire Rate: 6.7 rounds/secondAccuracy: 18.2Mag Size: 15Reload Time: 1.2sBurst DPS: 147.74Sustained DPS: 96.18 My Suggested Lato Family: MK-1 Lato Total Damage: 18Impact: 4.5Puncture: 4.5Slash: 9Crit Chance: 5.0%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 1.0%Fire Rate: 6.5 rounds/secondAccuracy: 18.2Mag Size: 15Reload Time: 1.0sBurst DPS: 119.93Sustained DPS: 83.67Production Cost: 10,000 Credits in the Market Existing MK-1 Secondaries MK-1 Furis: Total Damage: 13Impact: 2Puncture: 9.1Slash: 1.9Crit Chance: 5.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 1.0%Fire Rate: 8.3 rounds/secondAccuracy: 15.4Mag Size: 35Reload Time: 1.4sBurst DPS: 113.3Sustained DPS: 85.06 MK-1 Kunai: Total Damage: 40Impact: 4Puncture: 30Slash: 6Crit Chance: 5.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 2.5%Fire Rate: 3.3 rounds/secondAccuracy: 100Mag Size: 10Reload Time: .8sBurst DPS: 138.6Sustained DPS: 109.65 Lato: Total Damage: 31Impact: 3.5Puncture: 5.5Slash: 22Crit Chance: 7.5%Crit Multiplier: 1.8xStatus Chance: 15%Fire Rate: 6.2 rounds/secondAccuracy: 18.2Mag Size: 15Reload Time: 1.2sBurst DPS: 203.73Sustained DPS: 136.18Blueprint Cost: 15,000 CreditsProduction Cost: 15,000 Credits, 250 Salvage, 650 Alloy Plate, 550 Ferrite, 200 Polymer Bundles Aklato: Total Damage: 31Impact: 2.4Puncture: 4.3Slash: 24.3Crit Chance: 7.5%Crit Multiplier: 1.8xStatus Chance: 12.5%Fire Rate: 8.1 rounds/secondAccuracy: 11.8Mag Size: 30Reload Time: 1.6sBurst DPS: 266.17Sustained DPS: 185.87Blueprint Cost: 20,000 CreditsProduction Cost: 20,000 Credits, Lato, Lato, 2 Orokin Cells Lato Vandal: Total Damage: 37.6Impact: 3.1Puncture: 3.1Slash: 31.4Crit Chance: 25%Crit Multiplier: 2.2x Status Chance: 10%Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/secondAccuracy: 19.6Mag Size: 15Reload Time: 1.4sBurst DPS: 283.5Sustained DPS: 183.93Production Cost: N/A Prisma Lato: Total Damage: 40.7 Impact: 2.4Puncture: 1.8Slash: 36.5Crit Chance: 7.5%Crit Multiplier: 1.7xStatus Chance: 45%Fire Rate: 6.6 rounds/secondAccuracy: 26Mag Size: 16Reload Time: 1.4sBurst DPS: 282.72Sustained DPS: 179.22Production Cost: Brought by Baro Ki'Teer. Maybe 200,000 credits and 500 Ducats to bring it in line with Mara Detron. Maybe less to average out what other weapons cost. Lato Prime: Total Damage: 43.2Impact: 5.1Puncture: 7.1Slash: 31Crit Chance: 16%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 20%Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/secondAccuracy: 18.2Mag Size: 15Reload Time: 1.35sBurst DPS: 290.65Sustained DPS: 190.97Production Cost: N/A Other Common "End-Game" Secondaries for Comparison Vasto Prime: Total Damage: 60Impact: 9Puncture: 9Slash: 42Crit Chance: 15.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 15.0%Fire Rate: 5.4 rounds/secondAccuracy: 16Mag Size: 16Reload Time: 1.0sBurst DPS: 372.6Sustained DPS: 196.11 Lex Prime: Total Damage: 85Impact: 8.5Puncture: 68Slash: 8.5Crit Chance: 20.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 20.0%Fire Rate: 2.1 rounds/secondAccuracy: 16Mag Size: 8Reload Time: 2.3sBurst DPS: 214.2Sustained DPS: 133.56 Synoid Gammacor: Total Damage: 28Magnetic: 28Crit Chance: 10.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 20.0%Fire Rate: 15 rounds/secondAccuracy: 100Mag Size: 150Reload Time: 2.0sBurst DPS: 462Sustained DPS: 385 Marelok: Total Damage: 160Impact: 80Puncture: 16Slash: 64Crit Chance: 15.0%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 30.0%Fire Rate: 2 rounds/secondAccuracy: 10Mag Size: 6Reload Time: 1.7sBurst DPS: 344Sustained DPS: 219.57 Vaykor Marelok: Total Damage: 160Impact: 96Puncture: 16Slash: 48Crit Chance: 20.0%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 35.0%Fire Rate: 2 rounds/secondAccuracy: 10Mag Size: 6Reload Time: 1.7sBurst DPS: 352Sustained DPS: 224.68 Brakk: Total Damage: 149.5Impact: 67Puncture: 37.5Slash: 45Crit Chance: 15.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 10.0%Fire Rate: 5 rounds/secondAccuracy: 5.6Mag Size: 5Reload Time: 1.0sBurst DPS: 859.63Sustained DPS: 429.81*Suffers from damage falloff Akbolto: Total Damage: 45Impact: 4.5Puncture: 40.5Slash: 0Crit Chance: 15.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 10.0%Fire Rate: 10 rounds/secondAccuracy: 26.7Mag Size: 30Reload Time: 2.6sBurst DPS: 472.5Sustained DPS: 253.13 Telos Akbolto: Total Damage: 50Impact: 5Puncture: 45Slash: 0Crit Chance: 10.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 12.5%Fire Rate: 10 rounds/secondAccuracy: 26.7Mag Size: 30Reload Time: 2.6sBurst DPS: 550Sustained DPS: 294.64 Despair: Total Damage: 55Impact: 2.75Puncture: 44.0Slash: 8.25Crit Chance: 2.5%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 12.5%Fire Rate: 3.3 rounds/secondAccuracy: 100Mag Size: 10Reload Time: .8sBurst DPS: 183.77Sustained DPS: 145.39 Hikou Prime: Total Damage: 32Impact: 3.2Puncture: 27.2Slash: 1.6Crit Chance: 2.5%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 15.0%Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/secondAccuracy: 100Mag Size: 26Reload Time: .5sBurst DPS: 187.92Sustained DPS: 169.06 And now the Skana family:The Current Skana Family: Skana: Total Damage: 35Impact: 5.25Puncture: 5.25Slash: 24.5Crit Chance: 5.0%Crit Miltiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 10.0%Attack Rate: .833Jump Attack: 70Slam Attack: 25Slam Radius: 5.0mSlide Attack: 75Wall Attack: 140Stance Polarity: DPS: 29.88 Prisma Skana: Total Damage: 35.1Impact: 5.3Puncture: 5.3Slash: 24.5Crit Chance: 20.0%Crit Miltiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 10.0%Attack Rate: 1.0Jump Attack: 35Slam Attack: UnknownSlam Radius: 4.0mSlide Attack: 75Wall Attack: 140Stance Polarity: DPS: 42.12 Skana Prime: Total Damage: 42Impact: 6.3Puncture: 6.3Slash: 29.4Crit Chance: 10.0%Crit Miltiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 10.0%Attack Rate: 1.0Jump Attack: 84Slam Attack: 84Slam Radius: 1.0mSlide Attack: 90Wall Attack: 168Stance Polarity: DPS: 44.1 My Suggested Skana Family: MK-1 Skana: Total Damage: 35Impact: 5.25Puncture: 5.25Slash: 24.5Crit Chance: 5.0%Crit Miltiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 10.0%Attack Rate: .917Jump Attack: 70Slam Attack: 25Slam Radius: 5.0mSlide Attack: 750Wall Attack: 140Stance Polarity: DPS: 32.9Production Cost: 12,500 Credits in the Market Existing MK-1 Melee Weapons MK-1 Furax: Total Damage: 30Impact: 21Puncture: 4.5Slash: 4.5Crit Chance: 20.0%Crit Miltiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 10.0%Attack Rate: 1.0Jump Attack: 60Slam Attack: 25Slam Radius: 3.0mSlide Attack: 90Wall Attack: 91Stance Polarity: DPS: 36 MK-1 Bo Total Damage: 45Impact: 40.5Puncture: 4.5Slash: 0Crit Chance: 12.5%Crit Miltiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 20.0%Attack Rate: 1.0Jump Attack: 90Slam Attack: UnknownSlam Radius: UnknownSlide Attack: 96Wall Attack: 75Stance Polarity: DPS: 50.63 Skana: Total Damage: 38.2Impact: 5.7Puncture: 5.7Slash: 26.8Crit Chance: 12.5%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 15.0%Attack Rate: .979Jump Attack: 81Slam Attack: 45Slam Radius: 2.5mSlide Attack: 89Wall Attack: 157Stance Polarity: DPS: 39.74Blueprint Cost: 17,500 Credits in the MarketProduction Cost: 18,000 Credits, 800 Salvage, 1200 Alloy Plate, 2 Morphics, 2 Gallium Prisma Skana: Total Damage: 43Impact: 7.1Puncture: 4.2Slash: 31.7Crit Chance: 20.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 12.5%Attack Rate: 1.0Jump Attack: 86Slam Attack: 40Slam Radius: 3.0mSlide Attack: 92Wall Attack: 157Stance Polarity: DPS: 51.6 Skana Prime: Total Damage: 50Impact: 6.5Puncture: 6.5Slash: 37Crit Chance: 15.0%Crit Multiplier: 1.8xStatus Chance: 20%Attack Rate: 1.1Jump Attack: 107Slam Attack: 58Slam Radius: 2.5mSlide Attack: 112Wall Attack: 217Stance Polarity: DPS: 61.6 Other Common "End-Game" Melee Weapons for Comparison Dakra Prime: Total Damage: 60Impact: 6Puncture: 6Slash: 48Crit Chance: 15.0%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 10.0%Attack Rate: 1.0Jump Attack: 120Slam Attack: 25Slam Radius: 3.0mSlide Attack: 129Wall Attack: 240Stance Polarity: DPS: 64.5 Dragon Nikana: Total Damage: 85Impact: 4.25Puncture: 4.25Slash: 72.25Crit Chance: 15.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 15.0%Attack Rate: 1.0Jump Attack: 182Slam Attack: 170Slam Radius: UnknownSlide Attack: 182Wall Attack: 182Stance Polarity: DPS: 97.75 Orthos Prime: Total Damage: 65.1Impact: 9.8Puncture: 9.8Slash: 45.5Crit Chance: 10.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 15.0%Attack Rate: 1.2Jump Attack: 80Slam Attack: 20Slam Radius: 10.0mSlide Attack: 144Wall Attack: UnknownStance Polarity: DPS: 85.93 Glaive Prime: Total Damage: 35Impact: 5.25Puncture: 5.25Slash: 24.5Crit Chance: 5.0%Crit Multiplier: 1.5xStatus Chance: 10.0%Attack Rate: 1.2Jump Attack: 105Slam Attack: 70Slam Radius: UnknownSlide Attack: 175Wall Attack: UnknownStance Polarity: DPS: 43.05*Throwing mechanic and channeling explosion adds potential damage and utility. Galatine: Total Damage: 125Impact: 3.1Puncture: 3.1Slash: 118.8Crit Chance: 10.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 20.0%Attack Rate: 1.0Jump Attack: 250Slam Attack: 250Slam Radius: 5.0mSlide Attack: 250Wall Attack: UnknownStance Polarity: DPS: 137.5 Scindo Prime: Total Damage: 130Impact: 13Puncture: 13Slash: 104Crit Chance: 20.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 15.0%Attack Rate: .967Jump Attack: 260Slam Attack: 260Slam Radius: 6.0mSlide Attack: 260Wall Attack: UnknownStance Polarity: DPS: 150.85 Dual Ichor: Total Damage: 35Toxin: 35Crit Chance: 25.0%Crit Multiplier: 3.0xStatus Chance: 15.0%Attack Rate: 1.1Jump Attack: 70Slam Attack: 140Slam Radius: 1.0mSlide Attack: 210Wall Attack: UnknownStance Polarity: DPS: 57.75 Bo Prime: Total Damage: 75Impact: 67.5Puncture: 7.5Slash: 0Crit Chance: 12.5%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 25.0%Attack Rate: 1.1Jump Attack: 150Slam Attack: UnknownSlam Radius: UnknownSlide Attack: 161Wall Attack: 125Stance Polarity: DPS: 92.81 Tipedo: Total Damage: 50Impact: 5Puncture: 5Slash: 40Crit Chance: 20.0%Crit Multiplier: 2.0xStatus Chance: 20.0%Attack Rate: 1.3Jump Attack: UnknownSlam Attack: 100Slam Radius: UnknownSlide Attack: 107Wall Attack: 83Stance Polarity: DPS: 78 Edit 1: Slight formatting issues fixed.Edit 2: Fixed new Skana stats as pointed out here.Edit 3: Tweaked Skana Prime stats as requested here. Edit 4: Added a Prisma Lato (prefix up for debate) for non-founders to have a Lato Prime equivalent weapon. I made it a very slash-heavy status weapon, with a base 45% status chance, allowing it to reach 99% with 2 dual stat elemental mods. Also made the Lato Vandal into a crit-based weapon. Considering swapping the stats for these, however. Edited November 23, 2015 by timerwin63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Kryptyk- Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format?no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikolaiLev Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I'm in favor of buffing old weapons up to the current power curve, though I'd rather nerf overpowered weapons. Either or, I'd like to be able to use the Lato and Skana in endgame content. I actually like those weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timerwin63 Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format? no How is this raging? Please, enlighten me. All of the weapons in both weapon families were given a buff, including the Prisma Skana. This post is about making as many weapons viable as possible, not buffing founders weapons because the Prisma Skana exists. Edited June 7, 2015 by timerwin63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiusa Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Why do they need to be changed? Why even balance things that people use very few times, given that is the sole purpose of most of those weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format? no your contribution level to this feedback thread is around the same as a 2 year old child trying to give feedback on what it doesn't like in life thats how utterly useless you are... if you dont have the time to properly read through it and give constructive feedback... then dont waste your energy typing next time and dont reply! Where did all the good go in thoughtful feedback and inspiration... now its just a bunch of kiddies taking a hippy fit at everything they see that does not suit them oh how i miss the good old Closed Beta days when there was less of you and more of people like timerwin! Edited June 7, 2015 by DiBBz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorgal_Sina Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format? no Pathetic reply. How is this raging? How are these suggestions bad? Just how? Why do they need to be changed? Why even balance things that people use very few times, given that is the sole purpose of most of those weapons? Why even touch things people never use? SO PEOPLE WILL USE THEM? Also, nothing says that the Skana Prime and Lato Prime must be beginner weapons. I'll be fine with them if they're the level of Braton Prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelastpwnr99 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's okay, timerwin. I, for one, appreciate your theoretical buffs and the thought put in behind them. This, of course, coming from a Master Founder, who wouldn't mind using Skana Prime more often. I see you, OP. Keep fighting the good fight. You're doing the Lord's work, son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osuman Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 How is this raging? Please, enlighten me. All of the weapons in both weapon families were given a buff, including the Prisma Skana. This post is about making as many weapons viable as possible, not buffing founders weapons because the Prisma Skana exists. Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons. If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiusa Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Why even touch things people never use? SO PEOPLE WILL USE THEM? Also, nothing says that the Skana Prime and Lato Prime must be beginner weapons. I'll be fine with them if they're the level of Braton Prime. If the Prime variants are brought in line with other Prime weaponry, I could understand. None of the other weapons need to be touched at all tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Disclaimer. The following is a massive wall of text, but I felt that it was necessary. I intend to use this thread for constructive criticism of the Lato and Skana weapon balancing, and if it gets enough support, I'd like to get DE's attention. If you're only interested in the weapon changes, they start after the numbered list, although I strongly encourage you to read all of it. All the information found in nested spoilers can be found here in a more condensed spreadsheet format. Greeting, fellow Tenno. I've recently begun browsing the forums and taking note of seemingly extremely divisive issues. One such common issue is the debate that is apparently constantly raging about whether or not to buff Founders' weapons or not. As a result, I've spent the last several days attempting to rebalance the Lato and Skana families to a point where the community can agree that this rebalance would be ideal for everyone. One of the first things that stood out was the lack of MK-1 weapons in the Lato and Skana families, despite their presence in every other family of starter weapons. I hope to fix that by adding a MK-1 Lato and MK-1 Skana to the game in place of their regular counterparts in Vor's Prize as starter weapons. I'd also like to preface this discussion by saying that I am not a founder. I missed my chance to be a founder, and while I would love to have the Lato Prime, Skana Prime, and Excalibur Prime, I recognize that these items are exclusives that were given to the people that gave DE a whopping $1,388,000 ("Solar Landmark" section) in Grand Master money alone. I recognize that this group of individuals has funded a game that I love and enjoy playing, and that, without them, it's possible that none of us would be able to get to play it today, and they deserve to have weapons that are usable in high level content where they're bound to be. Next, I'd like to address some of the more common concerns from the rest of the WF community about buffing Founders' weapons. Keep in mind, I'm not simply suggesting we buff Founders' weapons, I'm also suggesting an entire rework of the two weapon families. 1: "I can't get the Founders' Weapons so they deserve to be bad weapons, used only as trophies." There's really not much I can say about this one. This train of thought is childish and honestly, I'd expect better from this community. This is a sentiment I often hear voiced by people who joined the game after the Founders program was finished, and is quite unpleasant to read. If this is your belief, please, take it elsewhere as it's not constructive and as such, I don't think it belongs in this thread. 2: "This game offers you everything for free, no one should be able to just pay to get the best weapons." The changes I'm proposing don't make the Founders' weapons the best weapons in the game by a long shot, and I have the numbers to back it up. No, buffing the Founders' weapons does not make the game "pay to win." No, you're not missing out on anything except for mastery fodder by not having these weapons. As previously stated, if this argument is your intention, please don't bring it into this thread, as I want to keep this a place for constructive feeback only. 3: "Founders knew that they were buying cosmetic items when they purchased the Founders' packs. Why change that now?" Founders were promised exclusive weapons and a frame when they purchased the Founders' Packs. Nowhere in the agreement they assumed with DE when they purchased said packs was a clause that said "Oh, by the way, your weapons will only be cosmetic accessories in the future and/or get tossed into oblivion with the rest of the mastery fodder." These weapons are not skins, and should be treated as weapons. 4: "The Lato and Skana are starter weapons, and as such, the Lato Prime and Skana Prime are starter primes. Why make them anything better than a regular weapon?" I'll address this concern shortly. Just know that I've taken it into account. Burst DPS and Melee DPS were calculated with (Crit Chance * Crit Multi + (1 - Crit Chance)) * Damage/Hit * Attack Rate Sustained DPS calculated as (Burst DPS) * (Mag Size / Fire Rate) / (Mag Size / Fire Rate + Reload Time) These equations gave me values within rounding error to those shown on Warframe-Builder.com for existing weapons, so I stuck with them. Without further ado, I'd like to present my fixes. I'll start with the Lato family. The Current Lato Family: Lato: Total Damage: 18 Impact: 4.5 Puncture: 4.5 Slash: 9 Crit Chance: 5.0% Crit Multiplier: 1.8x Status Chance: 1.0% Fire Rate: 6.7 rounds/second Accuracy: 18.2 Mag Size: 15 Reload Time: 1.0s Burst DPS: 125.42 Sustained DPS: 86.7 Production Cost: 10,000 Credits in the Market Aklato: Total Damage: 18 Impact: 2.7 Puncture: 4.5 Slash: 10.8 Crit Chance: 2.5% Crit Multiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 1.0% Fire Rate: 8.3 rounds/second Accuracy: 11.1 Mag Size: 30 Reload Time: 2.4s Burst DPS: 151.27 Sustained DPS: 90.91 Production Cost: 25,000 Credits in the Market Lato Vandal: Total Damage: 20 Impact: 3 Puncture: 5 Slash: 12 Crit Chance: 7.5% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 5.0% Fire Rate: 5.0 rounds/second Accuracy: 23.0 Mag Size: 15 Reload Time: 1.2s Burst DPS: 107.5 Sustained DPS: 76.79 Lato Prime: Total Damage: 21 Impact: 2 Puncture: 4 Slash: 15 Crit Chance: 5.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 5.0% Fire Rate: 6.7 rounds/second Accuracy: 18.2 Mag Size: 15 Reload Time: 1.2s Burst DPS: 147.74 Sustained DPS: 96.18 My Suggested Lato Family: MK-1 Lato Total Damage: 18 Impact: 4.5 Puncture: 4.5 Slash: 9 Crit Chance: 5.0% Crit Multiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 1.0% Fire Rate: 6.5 rounds/second Accuracy: 18.2 Mag Size: 15 Reload Time: 1.0s Burst DPS: 119.93 Sustained DPS: 83.67 Production Cost: 10,000 Credits in the Market Existing MK-1 Secondaries MK-1 Furis: Total Damage: 13 Impact: 2 Puncture: 9.1 Slash: 1.9 Crit Chance: 5.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 1.0% Fire Rate: 8.3 rounds/second Accuracy: 15.4 Mag Size: 35 Reload Time: 1.4s Burst DPS: 113.3 Sustained DPS: 85.06 MK-1 Kunai: Total Damage: 40 Impact: 4 Puncture: 30 Slash: 6 Crit Chance: 5.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 2.5% Fire Rate: 3.3 rounds/second Accuracy: 100 Mag Size: 10 Reload Time: .8s Burst DPS: 138.6 Sustained DPS: 109.65 Lato: Total Damage: 31 Impact: 3.5 Puncture: 5.5 Slash: 22 Crit Chance: 7.5% Crit Multiplier: 1.8x Status Chance: 15% Fire Rate: 6.2 rounds/second Accuracy: 18.2 Mag Size: 15 Reload Time: 1.2s Burst DPS: 203.73 Sustained DPS: 136.18 Blueprint Cost: 15,000 Credits Production Cost: 15,000 Credits, 250 Salvage, 650 Alloy Plate, 550 Ferrite, 200 Polymer Bundles Aklato: Total Damage: 31 Impact: 2.4 Puncture: 4.3 Slash: 24.3 Crit Chance: 7.5% Crit Multiplier: 1.8x Status Chance: 12.5% Fire Rate: 8.1 rounds/second Accuracy: 11.8 Mag Size: 30 Reload Time: 1.6s Burst DPS: 266.17 Sustained DPS: 185.87 Blueprint Cost: 20,000 Credits Production Cost: 20,000 Credits, Lato, Lato, 2 Orokin Cells Lato Vandal: Total Damage: 37 Impact: 8.1 Puncture: 4.3 Slash: 24.6 Crit Chance: 20% Crit Multiplier: 1.9x Status Chance: 10% Fire Rate: 5.9 rounds/second Accuracy: 19.6 Mag Size: 15 Reload Time: 1.4s Burst DPS: 257.59 Sustained DPS: 166.12 Production Cost: N/A Lato Prime: Total Damage: 43.2 Impact: 5.1 Puncture: 7.1 Slash: 31 Crit Chance: 17.5% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 12.5% Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/second Accuracy: 18.2 Mag Size: 15 Reload Time: 1.35s Burst DPS: 294.41 Sustained DPS: 193.43 Production Cost: N/A Other Common "End-Game" Secondaries for Comparison Vasto Prime: Total Damage: 60 Impact: 9 Puncture: 9 Slash: 42 Crit Chance: 15.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 15.0% Fire Rate: 5.4 rounds/second Accuracy: 16 Mag Size: 16 Reload Time: 1.0s Burst DPS: 372.6 Sustained DPS: 196.11 Lex Prime: Total Damage: 85 Impact: 8.5 Puncture: 68 Slash: 8.5 Crit Chance: 20.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 20.0% Fire Rate: 2.1 rounds/second Accuracy: 16 Mag Size: 8 Reload Time: 2.3s Burst DPS: 214.2 Sustained DPS: 133.56 Synoid Gammacor: Total Damage: 28 Magnetic: 28 Crit Chance: 10.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 20.0% Fire Rate: 15 rounds/second Accuracy: 100 Mag Size: 150 Reload Time: 2.0s Burst DPS: 462 Sustained DPS: 385 Marelok: Total Damage: 160 Impact: 80 Puncture: 16 Slash: 64 Crit Chance: 15.0% Crit Multiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 30.0% Fire Rate: 2 rounds/second Accuracy: 10 Mag Size: 6 Reload Time: 1.7s Burst DPS: 344 Sustained DPS: 219.57 Vaykor Marelok: Total Damage: 160 Impact: 96 Puncture: 16 Slash: 48 Crit Chance: 20.0% Crit Multiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 35.0% Fire Rate: 2 rounds/second Accuracy: 10 Mag Size: 6 Reload Time: 1.7s Burst DPS: 352 Sustained DPS: 224.68 Brakk: Total Damage: 149.5 Impact: 67 Puncture: 37.5 Slash: 45 Crit Chance: 15.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 10.0% Fire Rate: 5 rounds/second Accuracy: 5.6 Mag Size: 5 Reload Time: 1.0s Burst DPS: 859.63 Sustained DPS: 429.81 *Suffers from damage falloff Akbolto: Total Damage: 45 Impact: 4.5 Puncture: 40.5 Slash: 0 Crit Chance: 15.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 10.0% Fire Rate: 10 rounds/second Accuracy: 26.7 Mag Size: 30 Reload Time: 2.6s Burst DPS: 472.5 Sustained DPS: 253.13 Telos Akbolto: Total Damage: 50 Impact: 5 Puncture: 45 Slash: 0 Crit Chance: 10.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 12.5% Fire Rate: 10 rounds/second Accuracy: 26.7 Mag Size: 30 Reload Time: 2.6s Burst DPS: 550 Sustained DPS: 294.64 Despair: Total Damage: 55 Impact: 2.75 Puncture: 44.0 Slash: 8.25 Crit Chance: 2.5% Crit Multiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 12.5% Fire Rate: 3.3 rounds/second Accuracy: 100 Mag Size: 10 Reload Time: .8s Burst DPS: 183.77 Sustained DPS: 145.39 Hikou Prime: Total Damage: 32 Impact: 3.2 Puncture: 27.2 Slash: 1.6 Crit Chance: 2.5% Crit Multiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 15.0% Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/second Accuracy: 100 Mag Size: 26 Reload Time: .5s Burst DPS: 187.92 Sustained DPS: 169.06 And now the Skana family: The Current Skana Family: Skana: Total Damage: 35 Impact: 5.25 Puncture: 5.25 Slash: 24.5 Crit Chance: 5.0% Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 10.0% Attack Rate: .833 Jump Attack: 70 Slam Attack: 25 Slam Radius: 5.0m Slide Attack: 75 Wall Attack: 140 Stance Polarity: DPS: 29.88 Prisma Skana: Total Damage: 35.1 Impact: 5.3 Puncture: 5.3 Slash: 24.5 Crit Chance: 20.0% Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 10.0% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 35 Slam Attack: Unknown Slam Radius: 4.0m Slide Attack: 75 Wall Attack: 140 Stance Polarity: DPS: 42.12 Skana Prime: Total Damage: 42 Impact: 6.3 Puncture: 6.3 Slash: 29.4 Crit Chance: 10.0% Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 10.0% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 84 Slam Attack: 84 Slam Radius: 1.0m Slide Attack: 90 Wall Attack: 168 Stance Polarity: DPS: 44.1 My Suggested Skana Family: MK-1 Skana: Total Damage: 35 Impact: 5.25 Puncture: 5.25 Slash: 24.5 Crit Chance: 5.0% Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 10.0% Attack Rate: .917 Jump Attack: 70 Slam Attack: 25 Slam Radius: 5.0m Slide Attack: 750 Wall Attack: 140 Stance Polarity: DPS: 32.9 Production Cost: 12,500 Credits in the Market Existing MK-1 Melee Weapons MK-1 Furax: Total Damage: 30 Impact: 21 Puncture: 4.5 Slash: 4.5 Crit Chance: 20.0% Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 10.0% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 60 Slam Attack: 25 Slam Radius: 3.0m Slide Attack: 90 Wall Attack: 91 Stance Polarity: DPS: 36 MK-1 Bo Total Damage: 45 Impact: 40.5 Puncture: 4.5 Slash: 0 Crit Chance: 12.5% Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 20.0% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 90 Slam Attack: Unknown Slam Radius: Unknown Slide Attack: 96 Wall Attack: 75 Stance Polarity: DPS: 50.63 Prisma Skana: Total Damage: 43 Impact: 7.1 Puncture: 4.2 Slash: 31.7 Crit Chance: 20.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 12.5% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 86 Slam Attack: 40 Slam Radius: 3.0m Slide Attack: 92 Wall Attack: 157 Stance Polarity: DPS: 51.6 Skana Prime: Total Damage: 54 Impact: 8.5 Puncture: 8.5 Slash: 37 Crit Chance: 17.5% Crit Multiplier: 1.8x Status Chance: 12.5% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 107 Slam Attack: 58 Slam Radius: 2.5m Slide Attack: 112 Wall Attack: 217 Stance Polarity: DPS: 61.56 Other Common "End-Game" Melee Weapons for Comparison Dakra Prime: Total Damage: 60 Impact: 6 Puncture: 6 Slash: 48 Crit Chance: 15.0% Crit Multiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 10.0% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 120 Slam Attack: 25 Slam Radius: 3.0m Slide Attack: 129 Wall Attack: 240 Stance Polarity: DPS: 64.5 Dragon Nikana: Total Damage: 85 Impact: 4.25 Puncture: 4.25 Slash: 72.25 Crit Chance: 15.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 15.0% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 182 Slam Attack: 170 Slam Radius: Unknown Slide Attack: 182 Wall Attack: 182 Stance Polarity: DPS: 97.75 Orthos Prime: Total Damage: 65.1 Impact: 9.8 Puncture: 9.8 Slash: 45.5 Crit Chance: 10.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 15.0% Attack Rate: 1.2 Jump Attack: 80 Slam Attack: 20 Slam Radius: 10.0m Slide Attack: 144 Wall Attack: Unknown Stance Polarity: DPS: 85.93 Glaive Prime: Total Damage: 35 Impact: 5.25 Puncture: 5.25 Slash: 24.5 Crit Chance: 5.0% Crit Multiplier: 1.5x Status Chance: 10.0% Attack Rate: 1.2 Jump Attack: 105 Slam Attack: 70 Slam Radius: Unknown Slide Attack: 175 Wall Attack: Unknown Stance Polarity: DPS: 43.05 Galatine: Total Damage: 125 Impact: 3.1 Puncture: 3.1 Slash: 118.8 Crit Chance: 10.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 20.0% Attack Rate: 1.0 Jump Attack: 250 Slam Attack: 250 Slam Radius: 5.0m Slide Attack: 250 Wall Attack: Unknown Stance Polarity: DPS: 137.5 Scindo Prime: Total Damage: 130 Impact: 13 Puncture: 13 Slash: 104 Crit Chance: 20.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 15.0% Attack Rate: .967 Jump Attack: 260 Slam Attack: 260 Slam Radius: 6.0m Slide Attack: 260 Wall Attack: Unknown Stance Polarity: DPS: 150.85 Dual Ichor: Total Damage: 35 Toxin: 35 Crit Chance: 25.0% Crit Multiplier: 3.0x Status Chance: 15.0% Attack Rate: 1.1 Jump Attack: 70 Slam Attack: 140 Slam Radius: 1.0m Slide Attack: 210 Wall Attack: Unknown Stance Polarity: DPS: 57.75 Bo Prime: Total Damage: 75 Impact: 67.5 Puncture: 7.5 Slash: 0 Crit Chance: 12.5% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 25.0% Attack Rate: 1.1 Jump Attack: 150 Slam Attack: Unknown Slam Radius: Unknown Slide Attack: 161 Wall Attack: 125 Stance Polarity: DPS: 92.81 Tipedo: Total Damage: 50 Impact: 5 Puncture: 5 Slash: 40 Crit Chance: 20.0% Crit Multiplier: 2.0x Status Chance: 20.0% Attack Rate: 1.3 Jump Attack: Unknown Slam Attack: 100 Slam Radius: Unknown Slide Attack: 107 Wall Attack: 83 Stance Polarity: DPS: 78 Edit: Slight formatting issues fixed. How is this raging? Please, enlighten me. All of the weapons in both weapon families were given a buff, including the Prisma Skana. This post is about making as many weapons viable as possible, not buffing founders weapons because the Prisma Skana exists. this man and along with the very few other F2P players that understand... needs to be gifted a special gift straight from the gods of warframe and be blessed upon with a masters founder pack! If the Prime variants are brought in line with other Prime weaponry, I could understand. None of the other weapons need to be touched at all tho they kinda do tho... warframe is coming to the point in witch weapons are being tiered.. witch was obviously not what most where expecting back in the early days! all weapons where very decent and held their own and even again lvl 90+ (way way back in the day) they just dont hold up to the way they used it.... its either people are forced to play with them till they get better weapons or people go back to them for mastery Edited June 7, 2015 by DiBBz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelastpwnr99 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items? Maybe because no less then $100 USD was spent on then, a bit of focus would be okay. The release of the Prisma Skana shows that DE could shed some buffing light on the Skana series, so why not mention the...other Skana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timerwin63 Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons. If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items? I focused on Founders weapons at the beginning of my post because I knew that it was a widely debated topic right now and I wanted to avoid getting unhelpful responses like the first response to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raitlor Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons. If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items? I believe the opening statements were to try and reduce the amount of posts similar to PriZms' post. Founder pack buffs are a touchy subject and a lot of people go off without even reading the content of the post. Timerwin has actually made suggestions on improving weapons if you had actually read his post. There are 2 new MK-1 series weapons suggested to allow for small buffs to founder and non-founder weapons in the family trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorgal_Sina Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons. If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items? So by your logic: If I make a thread about buffing Supra... Why so much focus on Supra??? Unfair to others!!! Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxbomb Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I do like the feel of the Lato and wouldn't mind having a version that's a bit stronger than starting weapon tier, so +1. P.S. As for the issue of whether or not the Founders versions should be buffed... I honestly don't care either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timerwin63 Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) this man and along with the very few other F2P players that understand... needs to be gifted a special gift straight from the gods of warframe and be blessed upon with a masters founder pack! Sorry, I totally misread your post. My apologies. Edited June 7, 2015 by timerwin63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons. If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items? if you cant honestly see that or do research then you sir are a no hope here! honestly think a little... We payed money for founders packs that had weapons and a warframe included and were pretty okey at the start and till finish! now the game has come a very long way and major 2.0's have happened, since then these weapons and warframe has become utterly useless to the point no one uses them anymore... they are just sitting there collecting dust! Why is it that its always F2P players that are against buffing! just because yous dont want it or like it means the rest have to suffer ? witch if i may add is a pretty good proportion of the population by now want certain buffs in certain aspects of the game! lets say people start suggesting that they want nerfs on some of your favourite warframe's and weapons that are hardly unbalanced in the first place! how would you react ? cause if your answer is the same as mine then youd obiouvlsy want to interject and say something on why they dont need nerfed etc... so now just flip it the other way round "Weapons / warframe that needs buffs because they are not close to being at a reasonable balanced state" id rather like to see diversity of weapons being used in game rather than the typical (soma(P) / Boltor(P) / orthos / bo prime etc etc) than what you typically see in game as of right now! i think why all this hate of buffing (founder prime) weapons etc comes up its a automatic red flag to dislike the idea and stomp on it till it dies from the majority witch are F2P players... now i dunno what the reason may be, simply because you want founders to suffer with weapons and a warframe that have not been buffed since very early 2013 (2+ years), or if its a hate thing because you dont own them i dunno whatever the case it.... but it needs to stop cause its just toxifying the community even more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBorris Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yes please, I have been hoping for a Mk-1 Skana and Mk-1 Lato ever since the new tutorial came out. And OP, while I am all for buffing Founders weapons to be decent, you should have known it would attract the trolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolvenEdge Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Admittedly... I payed attention to only the melee portion of your post. :P I'm not much of a gun fan, and have already used up what interest I had in the Latos. I'm rather enjoying your ideas as to making the current Skana a Mk.I weapon, as its stats reflect, and then making the proper version a bit more fleshed out. However, I would suggest that all of us who kept the original skana, just have that be changed to the Skana Mk. I, and the new Skana be considered a new weapon. That way we have the same weapon (admittedly just renamed and given a direct upgrade path) and can move to the upgrade rather than having to step back for the Mk.I version should we wish to experience the full family... or just get the mastery points, for the metagamers out there. Keeping the Prisma Skana a crit-build weapon was a good idea, however having the normal Skana almost caught up with it seems a little... well, a little like the Prisma Skana isn't exactly worth it. Maybe giving it an extra three percent crit chance would help the build keep its edge over the main variety, with slightly less damage buff than you proposed? I cannot speak well for the Skana Prime, as I do not have it. I also had the chance to get the founders' pack, but did not because I was just starting and did not know how big a part of my gaming life WarFrame would become. I regret. TwT I will give it a try, though I cannot vouch for my accuracy in this area. Personal regrets aside, I'm of the mind that the Prime weapons should capitalize upon the strengths of their 'base weapon,' usually by side-grading, and enhancing their feel and gameplay rather than just being a straight damage buff. A bit of extra damage is to be expected, of course, but the weapon's strengths should be enhanced by the change, or perhaps a weakness covered. The Prisma Skana seems to almost invert the non-damage traits of the weapon (skana has higher status chance than crit, Prisma is the other way around, etc.), so I think that the Skana Prime should have a high status chance and swing speed instead of critical, that way it deals extra in bleed rather than critical damage, and has the chance to proc more often with attack speed which is arguably just as useful if not more so (ignoring armor to an extent and all that). I rather like your train of thought, and look forward to any future work on other weapon families... please do scythes next? ;w; Edit; clarification. Edited June 7, 2015 by WolvenEdge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timerwin63 Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 I'm rather enjoying your ideas as to making the current Skana a Mk.I weapon, as its stats reflect, and then making the proper version a bit more fleshed out. However, I would suggest that all of us who kept the original skana, just have that be changed to the Skana Mk. I, and the new Skana be considered a new weapon. That way we have the same weapon (admittedly just renamed and given a direct upgrade path) and can move to the upgrade rather than having to step back for the Mk.I version should we wish to experience the full family... or just get the mastery points, for the metagamers out there. ~snip~ Edit; clarification. Thanks for your input! I'll take it into account and look at the weapon stats again tomorrow. I'll try to rework the Skana Prime a bit and put up what I come up with tomorrow afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesyra Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format? no someone didn't read the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 someone didn't read the thread. much like 70% of the community with these typs or any types of threads in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K0bra Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Awesome thread but im kinda shocked that the Lato prime is on a step like the Mk1 Kunai.Thats ....unexpected.I think this thread is open eyes. Thanks for your effords.Keep going. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanShade Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 +1! Really good idea, im not own any prime access pack, but this will make another (not only prime) weapons more viable for higher levels (yeeees, im about my beloved Prisma Skana). So im totally agreed. Even with this suggested buff, what will be lato and skana prime? not higher, than already mid-tier weapons, that has little to no potential for endgame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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