Void Ticket System - A Replacement For Rng

[Kagumin]

Both systems should co-exist.

I think that's the clear cut answer here.

[TankHunter678]

then you would have to rely on RNG in hopes the game doesn't throw something at you that causes trouble and causes the mission to fail, or rely on the RNG of life to not screw you over with lag, or crashes...

Currently you have to hope this does not happen anyways while praying to the RNG to give you what you want. Which the RNG rarely will give you what you want anyways and has more fun screwing you over.

 

At least with a ticket system the amount you have to pray to RNG is drastically reduced. You trade the massive amount of runs you complete that were utterly futile for what you needed for guaranteed progress towards what you want.

 

 

With how drop tables are getting diluted as more and more content is being released you have two options:

 

Add more mission types and tiers that will dilute the key drops to hell making you grind even more in futility a slave to the RNG. Or put in a ticket system where the need to grind for individual things you want is more easily done in a time efficient manner, especially with team mates you can trust that are good.

 

 

The RNG can stay, but put in a ticket system. The lucky can have their good fortune, the unlucky will know they are making progress even if the RNG does not bless them.

[BETAOPTICS]

I still prefer RNG over anything... ANYTHING... RNG... its the way life was mean to be... Not controlled. Life isn't something controlled, and things given to you aren't made based on decision of some high council. A ticket system would be awful. Hard work for barely anything at all, and then when people want ember prime it will be like...

A sign when you have been playing a game a bit too much, when reality and virtual reality starts to emerge with one another. Anyways no, both systems are bad in their own way. If we keep it like this, it rewards luck and sure, hard work to some but it can also shut down people who are equally hard working but have bad luck when it comes to the drop. It is not a good system at all, it is not something that as a system will keep you playing the game, it is the drops. It is not a good design to gimp player progression halfway trough with artificial ways to slow people down, maybe. A simple ticket system will not work either, it is too easy and progressive and there is no room for error on the systems part so it becomes just another alternative way for players to get content while giving no reason to farm for normal variants.

What I propose is a system that will guarantee that a player will get rewarded for their hard work and efforts while still not being too progressive, easy to obtain and straight forward. A meter system. Now let me explain. You got to a Defense void mission in order to get the Fang Prime Blade, you do 10 missions but unfortunately for you, the mission rewards did not yield the item you needed and you felt cheated over. Not to worry my friend, the next time you got to a mission. You will be guaranteed to get any single reward of your choosing from the drop table list.

That chosen reward could scale so if you choose Forma, it is not one Forma but maybe a few  for compensation or then it doesn't scale at all. Regardless of how it would work on that aspect, this system would reward luck, while also being fair and rewarding hard work and dedication. This system would also encourage to keep playing the said mission type because in order to get that 10th reward, you need to do 10 defense missions and not just 10 missions in general so you still are forced to play every type of mission but with a guaranteed reward.

Of course the system should be changed so that you can not simply do 10 T1 defense missions to get one rare part and another 10 to get another rare part. Every tier would have specific loot so you'd have to do 10 T3 to get that Fang Prime Blade and 10 T2 to get the handle. This way the system would be fair to both players while still remaining reasonable and having a clear goal to farm for without simply being a straightforward progression system like the ticket system would be.

Edited December 29, 2013 by BETAOPTICS

[Syzodia]

A sign when you have been playing a game a bit too much, when reality and virtual reality starts to emerge with one another. Anyways no, both systems are bad in their own way. If we keep it like this, it rewards luck and sure, hard work to some but it can also shut down people who are equally hard working but have bad luck when it comes to the drop. It is not a good system at all, it is not something that as a system will keep you playing the game, it is the drops. It is not a good design to gimp player progression halfway trough with artificial ways to slow people down, maybe. A simple ticket system will not work either, it is too easy and progressive and there is no room for error on the systems part so it becomes just another alternative way for players to get content while giving no reason to farm for normal variants.

What I propose is a system that will guarantee that a player will get rewarded for their hard work and efforts while still not being too progressive, easy to obtain and straight forward. A meter system. Now let me explain. You got to a Defense void mission in order to get the Fang Prime Blade, you do 10 missions but unfortunately for you, the mission rewards did not yield the item you needed and you felt cheated over. Not to worry my friend, the next time you got to a mission. You will be guaranteed to get any single reward of your choosing from the drop table list.

That chosen reward could scale so if you choose Forma, it is not one Forma but maybe a few  for compensation or then it doesn't scale at all. Regardless of how it would work on that aspect, this system would reward luck, while also being fair and rewarding hard work and dedication. This system would also encourage to keep playing the said mission type because in order to get that 10th reward, you need to do 10 defense missions and not just 10 missions in general so you still are forced to play every type of mission but with a guaranteed reward.

Of course the system should be changed so that you can not simply do 10 T1 defense missions to get one rare part and another 10 to get another rare part. Every tier would have specific loot so you'd have to do 10 T3 to get that Fang Prime Blade and 10 T2 to get the handle. This way the system would be fair to both players while still remaining reasonable and having a clear goal to farm for without simply being a straightforward progression system like the ticket system would be.

Uhm......this sounds just like the ticket system.

What?

Explain?

 

It sounds like RNG+Tickets in one, which was suggested a few times already.

[TankHunter678]

A sign when you have been playing a game a bit too much, when reality and virtual reality starts to emerge with one another. Anyways no, both systems are bad in their own way. If we keep it like this, it rewards luck and sure, hard work to some but it can also shut down people who are equally hard working but have bad luck when it comes to the drop. It is not a good system at all, it is not something that as a system will keep you playing the game, it is the drops. It is not a good design to gimp player progression halfway trough with artificial ways to slow people down, maybe. A simple ticket system will not work either, it is too easy and progressive and there is no room for error on the systems part so it becomes just another alternative way for players to get content while giving no reason to farm for normal variants.

What I propose is a system that will guarantee that a player will get rewarded for their hard work and efforts while still not being too progressive, easy to obtain and straight forward. A meter system. Now let me explain. You got to a Defense void mission in order to get the Fang Prime Blade, you do 10 missions but unfortunately for you, the mission rewards did not yield the item you needed and you felt cheated over. Not to worry my friend, the next time you got to a mission. You will be guaranteed to get any single reward of your choosing from the drop table list.

How is that any different then a ticket system where you get 10 T2 Defense tickets to buy a Fang Prime Handle and 10 T3 Defense tickets to buy a Fang Prime Blade?

 

Please, explain how it is different. As far as I can tell, your system is identical to a ticket system. You are just trying to use different words for it.

[BETAOPTICS]

evidently you tried and you failed, or you didnt try at all.

 

problem with repecting the "players" is there's no pleasing everyone, there's a voice from every direction, whereas as much as the developers are shown to have argued with one another, they end up with one decision.

 

besides, "respecting the players" often means compromising the original design vision and intent set out my the developers to begin with, which in the long term generally is bad for a project, especially when being swayed too much by "fan-base" or "player-base" generally eventually lead the game down the lane of a identity crisis.

Correct. However there is a way to respect players just as easily developers. How is this possible? Well there will always be two types of players in a topic such as this. The lucky ones who like RNG and the unlucky ones who don't. So what to do here? Keep the system as it is but add some type of guarantee that after a certain amount of time and effort has passed, you can pick a reward of your liking. If you want to obtain it as a normal drop then do not simply choose the item that will be a shortcut for you or just build it when you get all the drops and ideally this doesn't even has to be a issue for those players to begin with, as long as it is reasonable enough to reward hard work while still giving some players a way to guarantee that eventually they will get what they want.

As of now there is only a estimation of a guarantee drop but in theory there can be a player that can not build any of the Prime weapons just because RNG truly hates him. This is a bad design choice and nothing more than a place holder one for a better system and unlike a straight forward progression system the ticket system would be, my system would be fair for both sides of the coin and be more like a compromise from both ends while still respecting both sides of the debate.

Edited December 29, 2013 by BETAOPTICS

[BETAOPTICS]

How is that any different then a ticket system where you get 10 T2 Defense tickets to buy a Fang Prime Handle and 10 T3 Defense tickets to buy a Fang Prime Blade?

 

Please, explain how it is different. As far as I can tell, your system is identical to a ticket system. You are just trying to use different words for it.

Because there still is RNG in the play and it is not just about going into a missions to gain a ticket which then can be used to maximize farming potential. You can still get worthless loot but eventually it only guarantees that you get what you desire, that one drop RNG decides to not drop for you. Yes, it will be straight forward progression eventually but it won't strictly be that which in itself is not good either and honestly, there isn't many other ways to counter RNG than a guaranteed drop of players liking.

Only thing that can destroy variable is 100% to get something which is ultimately the only solution to this problem unfortunately so. But my system would reward luck in a sense that you can get all the drops within the time before you get the guaranteed one chose drop. Not only that but it would guarantee players to keep on playing on the missions and since everyone would know they could get what they want no matter what, no one would become overly frustrated by RNG which is a major issue since now you can go onto a mission type, farm for years without actually getting what you want, in theory though. 

I am unsure if 10 is a definitive mission amount or how it would be best implemented in but the general idea will reward all types of players, lucky ones and hard working ones while not being strictly straight forwards progression.

Edited December 29, 2013 by BETAOPTICS

[(PSN)Greig91]

The thing about tickets is that, as you say, it guarantees that you will eventually get the item you're after. It just requires patience. That's great for us players, but not so much for DE.

 

RNG is better for them because there's a legitimate chance that a player will never get the item they're after, or at least not within a time frame that their patience can hold out for. If a player who really really wants said item gets to the point where they think "okay this is never going to happen", that hopelessness is likely to drive them to just buy it with platinum. And that's probably what DE wants to happen some of the time.

[BETAOPTICS]

Uhm......this sounds just like the ticket system.

What?

Explain?

 

It sounds like RNG+Tickets in one, which was suggested a few times already.

Yes because it is that but we don't need a ticket system per say. On paper it is the same exact thing but we don't only need a new ticket system, it would be just a mere addition rather than being a replacer but yes, this is very true.

[Kagumin]

RNG is better for them because there's a legitimate chance that a player will never get the item they're after, or at least not within a time frame that their patience can hold out for. If a player who really really wants said item gets to the point where they think "okay this is never going to happen", that hopelessness is likely to drive them to just buy it with platinum. And that's probably what DE wants to happen some of the time.

 

It's not just that though, but RNG also allows devs to bleed content.

 

If say, prime items and other "rare"/"uncommon" items could be worked for and completed by just dedication, the bar would have to be set high so people are occupied. Do you know what type of threads we would be seeing if RNG was completely removed in favor of a litte-effort, big-gain system?

"The game is dying"

"Where's the content?"

"Content updates need to be bigger"

 

etc, etc.

[BETAOPTICS]

The thing about tickets is that, as you say, it guarantees that you will eventually get the item you're after. It just requires patience. That's great for us players, but not so much for DE.

 

RNG is better for them because there's a legitimate chance that a player will never get the item they're after, or at least not within a time frame that their patience can hold out for. If a player who really really wants said item gets to the point where they think "okay this is never going to happen", that hopelessness is likely to drive them to just buy it with platinum. And that's probably what DE wants to happen some of the time.

Correct, however it is a problem only because you can not buy Prime gear from the store other than the now existing and expensive Prime access deal. The older ones are only gotten from Void but you can only buy keys, which may or may not give you what you want thus they are not very appealing to most of the players and only made worse by their great cost for some unlucky players if they need many keys to get what they want.

[BETAOPTICS]

It's not just that though, but RNG also allows devs to bleed content.

 

If say, prime items and other "rare"/"uncommon" items could be worked for and completed by just dedication, the bar would have to be set high so people are occupied. Do you know what type of threads we would be seeing if RNG was completely removed in favor of a litte-effort, big-gain system?

"The game is dying"

"Where's the content?"

"Content updates need to be bigger"

 

etc, etc.

I agree, this is why there needs to be a compromise because neverending grind leading to frustration will also kill the game eventually, this is why it is such a hard topic to tackle over in my opinion. There is no right answers, there are only possibilities. However, I feel there needs to be a way to give players tools to get the content they are looking for eventually, as long as it is not anywhere near too easy to get all the items.

[TankHunter678]

Because there still is RNG in the play and it is not just about going into a missions to gain a ticket which then can be used to maximize farming potential. You can still get worthless loot but eventually it only guarantees that you get what you desire, that one drop RNG decides to not drop for you. Yes, it will be straight forward progression eventually but it won't strictly be that which in itself is not good either and honestly, there isn't many other ways to counter RNG than a guaranteed drop of players liking.

Only thing that can destroy variable is 100% to get something which is ultimately the only solution to this problem unfortunately so. But my system would reward luck in a sense that you can get all the drops within the time before you get the guaranteed one chose drop. Not only that but it would guarantee players to keep on playing on the missions and since everyone would know they could get what they want no matter what, no one would become overly frustrated by RNG which is a major issue since now you can go onto a mission type, farm for years without actually getting what you want, in theory though. 

I am unsure if 10 is a definitive mission amount or how it would be best implemented in but the general idea will reward all types of players, lucky ones and hard working ones while not being strictly straight forwards progression.

You seem to be under the opinion that those requesting a ticket system are requesting it to replace the RNG.

 

We are not.

 

We are asking for a ticket system to be added in so that when the RNG curses us we can eventually get what we want through the work we are always doing.

 

Further your system is still a ticket system. You keep trying to describe it in different words but it is still the ticket system we have been calling for that you keep denying to push forward your identical system using different words.

[BETAOPTICS]

You seem to be under the opinion that those requesting a ticket system are requesting it to replace the RNG.

 

We are not.

 

We are asking for a ticket system to be added in so that when the RNG curses us we can eventually get what we want through the work we are always doing.

 

Further your system is still a ticket system. You keep trying to describe it in different words but it is still the ticket system we have been calling for that you keep denying to push forward your identical system using different words.

Thanks for clarification. Now I approve. I have to note that I do not claim it to be my system or invention, just some that I found appealing and more clear than a ticket system overhaul so that is why the identical on paper but hopefully clearer for the players who oppose change and complete overhauls but yes, exactly.

[Vandoore]

I can see how a mixed system would be better, You would be mainly relying on RNG which isn't really that bad its just chance. But backed up with a  ticket system, after a certain number of runs x item will drop for you.

It would still have problems though, how the different gamtypes/tiers would contribute to the ticket. 

[TheMandarin]

I still prefer RNG over anything... ANYTHING... RNG... its the way life was mean to be... Not controlled. Life isn't something controlled, and things given to you aren't made based on decision of some high council. A ticket system would be awful. Hard work for barely anything at all, and then when people want ember prime it will be like...

 

Tickets gain 1 per mission

Ember prime 500 tickets...

 

you: D:

Me: HA-HA... You asked for this and screwed us all...

you do have control over life to a certain extent. for example, a student who graduate from ivy league has a higher chance of getting a high paying job compare to a student from an average university. it is still not guaranteed that a student from ivy league will always find a job, but their hard work has give them a higher chance to advance to in the social latter. the current RNG system has the same possibility for an item to drop regardless how hard a player try. it is like a person work his butt off to go to ivy league but at the end of the day his chance of finding a good job is the same as a student who graduate from an average university. this is not about whether u have control over life or not, it is about fairness. the RNG system could stay, but the percentage of item drop should increase as players go through more grind, they should not stay the same forever, regardless how hard you try. 

[birdei]

the ticket system is great when you need just one or two items from the void. But in reality, a crap ton of stuff comes from the void. Could you imagine how much of a grind it is to get everything if each item cost around 20 points?

 

It is just too much of a grind if you consider each tier is worth its equal points, T1=1, T2=2 T3=3. I used 20 points as a modest estimate so that would take 7 runs to just get 1 item. So to complete mag and ember prime you need to do 56 void runs for just 2 things. Now add in all of the other stuff you want, it would be just too insane. Then the complaining will instead of RNG sucks to items cost too much. Just more complaining.

 

Atleast DE will be making bank from the void key packs though.

 

Also if people think 20 is too high, think about it, this game is base around you grinding for stuff.

[Arlayn]

I would accept this ticket idea if it worked liked the lottery, or a capsule machine/Gachapon. You put the ticket in, and RNG decides what pops out.

 

edit: more tickets=Higher chance of rare

Edited December 29, 2013 by Arlayn

[matto]

While it could be an idea for a new reward mechanism, I don't think it would be so nice to change the RNG system to a tokken/ticket system.

 

You see, the problem is not RNG itself, it is how the drop rates are assigned, the number of items in a void mission etc.

 

I already gave one example in one of my thread :

 

Take a T1 capture. According to the wiki (which is not relevant anyway), possible rewards are :

Common : Bronco Prime BP, barrel, forma BP

Uncommon : Ember Prime BP, Helmet, Orthos Prime BP, Handle, Paris String.

 

First, this is a mess, Paris String shouldn't be in T1 capture at all. Having more than 3 items in one mission (except for survival as you can make tier for reaching a level), is stupid.

 

Then, Ember Prime Helmet is Uncommon in capture T1, but it becomes common in capture T2. Why? Do we really need that?

If you remove it and take the drop rate of Helmet in capture T1, and use it for another item, let's say the Ember BP, then your Ember BP becomes common in T1. And no need to put it in Derelict Defense.

 

Forma is always common in T1, T2, T3, sometimes being dropped as BP or Forma. First, they should get rid of one of them. Either make forma drops as a BP, OR as a Forma. The logic would be to make it drop as a BP as you can buy it in the market.

T1 is the low level of the Void, and mid-level players can take part in it. T2 requires a better build. T2 and T3 requires to be level 30, which is the level where you're supposed to use a forma. So let's remove forma from T1 and make it exclusive to T2 and T3.

Then you can take the drop rate of forma in T1 and use it to buff again another item (or the same), and here you have your common Ember BP in T1.

 

You can also consider Orokin Void Survival and Derelict as a junk room for old prime items. Making 3 tiers : 5-10min, 15= key, 20-25min, 30-more min. The older weapon, supposedly being possessed by most of the players, being in tier 3, the newest in tier 1.

 

Seriously guys, think a minute here. This is simple maths, they have two Orokin zone (Void and Derelict), assigning drop rates can be a brainteaser if you have multiple items and a bad code. Don't you think that if they would like to cleanse the reward table as I just did right now they would do so? Just think about the reasons why we're farming so hard. Do you really think they are willing to change this for what-is-supposed-to-be the "endgame" of Warframe (like it or not)?

 

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

Edited December 29, 2013 by matto

[Vandoore]

^ that I like, it makes sense

[leonvision]

Sorry but I don't respect what doesn't deserve respect.

 

then dont, i told you to only try. but if you cant respect DE for having a opinion, why should we respect you for having a opinion?

[WhisperByte]

I'm more in favor of a hybrid system.

Let the RNG stay like it is now but allow us to trade in void drops for void tokens.

Hek, making it limited trade ins per day would still allow slowly advancing towards the item you want even when RNG decides to always butthump you