A Suggestion To The Current Melee System

[p3z1]

After playing a lot with melee weapons with different frames, well I can say that DE may be telling players not to melee. Why is this?

 

1. Stamina usage - Probably some people have raised this. Why does running consume stamina, I mean we are ninjas right? Also it's hard to do hit and run with melee compared to guns since you jump in the fray, hack and slash, run if you are going low, rinse and repeat.

 

2. The combo system for most stances are lackluster and lock players in the current combo they are executing.

 

3. Some melee weapons are more viable than others (scindo prime, galatine, dragon nikana), and made more viable with stances (Crimson dervish, Cleaving whirlwind, Tempo royale)

 

4. A person cannot mod for channeling without losing out on energy (correct me on this, but I've tried a max efficiency channel build due to it's energy consumption).

 

5. Guns kill faster, why bother with melee.

 

6. Blocking eats stamina. FAST

 

To address these issues, I have a list of possible suggestions/rebalances. Decide whether they are good or not.

 

- Rebalance melee weapons according to their weapon type, suggestions include

     - Daggers with the fastest finisher times due to their size

     - Swords, being the most balanced, seem to be in the right place

     - Sword and Board, being more on the defensive, consumes less stamina on block

     - Heavy weapons are on the right track, just slow them down a bit (FLAME REPELLANT ON)

     - Whips should have stances that keep them more mobile than any other weapon, and give them maybe the 2nd

        highest range of all melees

     - Gunblades are fine as it is, except for the extremely short range damage farts (low damage up close for some    

        instances)

     - Polearms need a bit more damage, but the range should be the highest across all weapons

     - Staves are in the right place

     - Sparring and fist weapons should have most combos, to give it the "fighting" feel (pertaining to arcade fighting

       games like Mortal Kombat and Tekken)

     - The nikanas seem to be on the right place, but feels kinda wrong for me, like something's missing

     - Glaives only problem is the stance Gleaming talon, which IMO is inferior to astral twilight, it should cohesively mix

        throwing the glaive around while slashing enemies

     - All dual weapons should be slower, but cost less stamina to block

     - Machete stances should fell more brutal, since machetes, also needs damage boosts

     - Kind of melee weapon used has more advantages when used with the "appropriate frame" (Rhino + Galatine, Ash

       + ether daggers?)

 

- Increase channeling inefficiency of the channeling mods

     - Change resource used from energy to stamina, giving a better use for second wind

     - Melee weapons will consume some to no stamina depending on what kind of weapon (none for daggers, about 1/2

       of current for heavy weapons) while not channeling

     - Base channeling adds stamina cost by a number depending on what weapon is used, but can never be zero

     - Same with the current build, channeling stops when out of stamina

     - Add a mod that turns consumed resource to energy, but increases efficiency by a significant-yet-not-\

       so-gamebreaking amount

 

- Make stances define what kind of fighting style players use

     - Some stances, TBH, feels weaker than others (again, gleaming talon v astral twilight), give them each a niche on

        how they can be differentiated

     - Make the old stances feel more fluid (some need this bad, some are fine the way they are)

     - Make stances actually feel like stances (been stated some times by certain forum members)

     - A more extreme idea is stance compatibility, where certain frames have better advantages with some stances (less

       stamina consumed, more damage, etc.)

    

 

These suggestions assume that stamina will not be touched on Movement 2.0

These suggestions are also expected to be flawed, please bear with me

Edited May 3, 2015 by p3z1

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Let's start with making all weapons ignore armour, so there's any reward for risking own &#! and running up to a guy that shoots in our general direction.

[Cyborg-Rox]

''A suggestion'' = Wall of text with dozens of suggestions

[p3z1]

Let's start with making all weapons ignore armour, so there's any reward for risking own ! and running up to a guy that shoots in our general direction.

 

That would probably be OP tbh, just wanna set them to be balacnced

 

''A suggestion'' = Wall of text with dozens of suggestions

 

Just in case only one suggestion is good...

[[DE]Grzegorz]

That would probably be OP tbh, just wanna set them to be balacnced

 

Sounds more like making melee more viable, or more like viable at all instead of being utility. Armour-ignore damage by default sounds like nice step to improve risk:reward ratio, as currently, melee weapons are the riskiest one to use, while offering usually lackluster performance (save for terribly inconsistent crits that seem to OHK any unit at random, be it lv3 lancer or lv827 Arctic Eximus).

[p3z1]

Sounds more like making melee more viable, or more like viable at all instead of being utility. Armour-ignore damage by default sounds like nice step to improve risk:reward ratio, as currently, melee weapons are the riskiest one to use, while offering usually lackluster performance

 

Good point there

 

 (save for terribly inconsistent crits that seem to OHK any unit at random, be it lv3 lancer or lv827 Arctic Eximus).

 

That is another story

[(XBOX)bigsnake84]

I dont understand. Im usually the one dealing the most damage out of the majority of my groups by using melee only. In T4s I'll use powerful endgame worthy primaries, but when things get too hectic i usually resort to zipping around slide attacking and combo-ing with melee as thats the main killer for me.

[TheGrimCorsair]

The biggest problem with melee isn't even the risk-reward skew, which while not as bad as most folks complain about it being, could be a bit more favorable.

You touched on it, OP, when talking about combos. We'd be much, much better off moving to stances grant maneuvers/moves rather than long, canned combos. The ability to chain those abilities as the situation in melee demands would make melee a helluva less risky but just not being buffered into such drawn out combos. :|

[p3z1]

I dont understand. Im usually the one dealing the most damage out of the majority of my groups by using melee only. In T4s I'll use powerful endgame worthy primaries, but when things get too hectic i usually resort to zipping around slide attacking and combo-ing with melee as thats the main killer for me.

 

You stated that you bring powerful endgame weaponry, which contributes to a high percentage of your damage. I'll be honest, the only way you can do more damage than other players probably with guns is the ff:

- You brought a strong sliding weapon (only recall kronen, forgot the other weapon with strong slide attack)

- Combo-ing with good stances (swirlie tiger, cleaving ww, tempo royale)

- Brought a crit melee for berserker proc/higher crit damages

 

The biggest problem with melee isn't even the risk-reward skew, which while not as bad as most folks complain about it being, could be a bit more favorable.

You touched on it, OP, when talking about combos. We'd be much, much better off moving to stances grant maneuvers/moves rather than long, canned combos. The ability to chain those abilities as the situation in melee demands would make melee a helluva less risky but just not being buffered into such drawn out combos. :|

 

It's actually more risk-reward by actually executing the combos. For example, cleaving whirlwind turns you into a low mobility blender, killing anyone in range of your melee but being an easy target for other ranged units

[TheGrimCorsair]

You stated that you bring powerful endgame weaponry, which contributes to a high percentage of your damage. I'll be honest, the only way you can do more damage than other players probably with guns is the ff:

- You brought a strong sliding weapon (only recall kronen, forgot the other weapon with strong slide attack)

- Combo-ing with good stances (swirlie tiger, cleaving ww, tempo royale)

- Brought a crit melee for berserker proc/higher crit damages

 

 

It's actually more risk-reward by actually executing the combos. For example, cleaving whirlwind turns you into a low mobility blender, killing anyone in range of your melee but being an easy target for other ranged units

IME, there's not much risk in doing that with most Warframes you'd use for that. That's also kind of a bad example as it's pretty easy to control your exit point for the combo once you start Broken Bull, given its fairly brief movements for each input.

 

Regardless, it'd be better, IMO, to get rid of the lazy canned combos and move to a melee system that gave use short, discreet maneuvers, ones we can link into longer combos organically as opportunity presents itself, rather than long chains of flashy, mostly wasted maneuvers. Give us utility that we can use in the situations we actually face in combat, which are often very small clusters of enemies that are rather dispersed.

[p3z1]

Regardless, it'd be better, IMO, to get rid of the lazy canned combos and move to a melee system that gave use short, discreet maneuvers, ones we can link into longer combos organically as opportunity presents itself, rather than long chains of flashy, mostly wasted maneuvers. Give us utility that we can use in the situations we actually face in combat, which are often very small clusters of enemies that are rather dispersed.

 

Agree with this

[(XBOX)bigsnake84]

You stated that you bring powerful endgame weaponry, which contributes to a high percentage of your damage. I'll be honest, the only way you can do more damage than other players probably with guns is the ff:

- You brought a strong sliding weapon (only recall kronen, forgot the other weapon with strong slide attack)

- Combo-ing with good stances (swirlie tiger, cleaving ww, tempo royale)

- Brought a crit melee for berserker proc/higher crit damages

Galatine with tempo royale and berserker, jat kittag with berserk, and dragon nikana (tranquil cleave). So yeah you pretty much covered them. But thats just T4 specifically, im usually maining with a lot of different melee weapons cause its fun and ever since in-air directional melee, ive been immortal lol

PS: it was dex dakra. Kronen and dex dakra have same slide attack damage. Im gonna need to use that more muahaha

Edited May 4, 2015 by (XB1)bigsnake84