bonamb

No. It doesn't work because it deals 200 damage to one frame, and 20,000 damage to another. For one the 200 is small change and can be healed with one ability, a couple of health orbs, one health restore, sneezing etc. For the other its a significant nerf and in the case of frames like atlas with his rubble if you don't have end game arcanes like arcane grace you're screwed, as picking up rubble while on less than max health puts it (very very slowly) into your health instead of armour :). Even with arcanes like grace etc, its still a significant nerf because as its kinda in the name - the point of a health tank is to tank with health. Its like if instead of damaging health, self damage did a big percentage of your energy pool on hit. Hey, I like that actually. That impacts all frames the same way, right :) Gosh I love arbitrarily applied percentages without considering that more than one type of frame and its functions exists. If you want an alternative option, why not have self damage on a curve (much as armour DR is) where low levels of self damage rise steeply, and as the damage numbers get silly, the self damage starts to curve off. Lets put a hypothetical number of 10,000 actual damage on the top end, and cap the damage to a players health to 25% of their max (so they can go no lower than a quarter remaining through self damage). Squishier frames would have to be more careful with this version, but 10,000 damage is nothing to sneeze at for tanks either. You'd play squishy frames like squishy frames, and you'd have an easier time wading to the middle of fights with tanks. Wow, mechanics assisting intended playstyle, rather than just a blanket simple number change! It'd also incentivize people to play tanks a bit more, as they typically don't have powerful AOE abilities so would benefit heavily from being able to use explosive weapons, unlike caster AOE frames, which as a rule do and therefore don't need the additional power of an explosive weapon as much. Sometimes simple maths is unfortunately a little too simple for complicated game mechanics xD Flat percentile is an idea, but its also the first thought that everybody and their grandma has had about this topic, its a bit deeper than that.

Sadly this solution doesn't work, as it unfairly impacts health tanks like grendel, inaros, atlas etc (given their whole thing is big health pool + big DR) so itd do 200 actual damage to a mesa with shatter shield, but 20,000 actual damage to a grendel. Would be a big nerf for health based frames :)

Do you mean the augmented weapon buffs from frost, volt etc? If so I entirely agree on this. Don't particularly want my fire status combining into blast.

I can use a bicycle in a F1 race doesnt mean it's any good xD Tbf, how well have you gotten it to work on steel path? I've tried, but for me avalanche is just the better option every single time. The only time I've considered using it is with the augment, and slowing down mobs in a corridor, but I can do that just as well without wasting a mod slot just by using a cold weapon.

Thats a fine reason to like frames with a dead ability, but if you look at more up to date / reworked frames that obviously isn't DE's goal as they typically have all four abilities being very functional with a varying amount of synergy between them, and often a difficult choice to swap out. Plus, its far better to have four functional abilities and then helminth being a good alternative option rather than having a MUST HELMINTH ability slot because with a functional ability you flat out have more choices available to you than only having the helminth :) Also theres a difference between a less powerful ability by design (i.e. the 1st ability on a lot of the earlier frames) and an ability that has simply been outscaled by the game and needs updating. One is intentional design, and may play into the "power budget", and the other is by accident and therefore there is no power budget at play. Plus, if it was reworked where you could get rid of the globe by holding down your third ability with your crosshair on it, or something similar, that would be a more easily helminthable ability in your eyes.

Unfortunately frost only has one good ability, and one ability you use in defence missions. Oh also, because he's not a melee frame & not a tank the passive is counteractive to his intended playstyle. Also it was a rhetorical question - however If we take a look at other members of the "origional eight", Ember was reworked in 2019, and she ended up with the passive of " Receive 5% Ability Strength for every enemy within a 50m engulfed in flame (up to a cap)." So when Frost is reworked, it would be a good idea to update his passive with him :)

Fantastic idea, leaves room for the 1 to be replaced! This is why I'm concerned when some people bring up the overguard like its some solve all xD It's terrible compared to all other sources of overguard.

He's better than he was in 2020, but thats mainly because in 2020 he was a pile of hot garbage. Right now hes at least been tidied up into the trash can. Yes, external factors have helped him and other frames somewhat. Frost still has several prevalent problems including but not limited to: third ability scaling off armour despite not being a health based frame, low energy pool for a high cast requirement, useless passive, useless second ability, zero synergy between abilities, no shield restore ability despite being a shield based frame, much lower stats than other later warframes with no update to them in 10 years etc etc etc That isn't including QoL problems that linger from being such an old frame such as you not being able to shoot through the bubble, no total for health remaining of the bubble, with the wrong energy colour you are blinded, ANCIENT fashionframe etc. He isn't being carried with the rest of the game because simply he isnt being paid attention to and has't recieved a rework in almost a decade. This isn't 2015 warframe any more, he needs to be looked at. Just look at how good the recent inaros rework is - scaling abilities, better cast animations, synergy mechanics! The ember rework is in the same boat. Frost needs a look at like they did.

In the origional post I wasn't talking about a buff, I was asking for his armour and shields to make sense (given he's not a health tank, but his third ability scales off armour etc). The suggested reworks are written as they are to make his CURRENT stats make sense :) Downside of frost OG is A) requires an augment, B) requires a massive amount of energy to get to any reasonable amount, C) has a hard cap which in steel path renders it pretty useless for anything but glancing hits as he's dashing between bubbles.

I've just re-read this and ngl I laughed. Comparing rhino and frosts's stats for tanking is a hell of a false equivalency because iron skin exists. Also, rhino is a brilliant frame at the moment and has had a lot of attention from DE, and the overguard update was a massive upside for it. Don't even try that xD No, frost doesn't have the stats / armour to tank, because shields are no good at tanking at high levels, shield gating requires a shield restoration ability (oh look, frost doesnt have one of those), his overguard is too little & to expensive to constistantly tank with (and requires an augment), he has the same amount of health as hyldrin (you know, the one with almost 3 times more shields than him). Frost was released as a tank, but due to how the game evolved he is no longer a tank. Also he needs more than cold status to be good, if you read the rest of the OP you'll see why - his stats being overshadowed, his abilities not making sense with his stats, useless second ability etc.

Honestly if they make him into a health tank with high health / armour, that would solve the synergy issue, and all theyd need to do is update the second ability and the passive. My suggestions were more along the lines of trying to preserve the big shield identity xD Sounds like a cool new ice themed frame - if gyre can exist with volt, we could always have another xD

Hell yeah I've still got my aurora, pulse and vanguard helmets lmao. Never did get trinity's aura helmet though :')

Unfortunately you do need frost's 1 cause thats the only way to remove his bubbles (without them being destroyed by enemies). Having a useless ability - a helminth'd slot - is just the hallmark of a bad frame. The frame should be able to stand by itself before helminth, not require helminth as a band aid to fix it. His third ability doesn't work particularly well at higher levels without having parasitic armour on your frost :) All I want is for his abilities and stats to actually work togeather, not have to use band aid helminth or augments to actually play him at higher levels. The only reason he's in a semi-alright state is because of external changes that have nothing to do with frost - the shield rework, and the upcoming cold change - and his two new augments. Doesn't really lend itself well to build diversity, and it has solved none of the problems which have only grown since 2015.

Just to note the positives to start. The shield rework, and the upcoming cold status rework are both very helpful for frost. His most recent augments are particularly good, even if they are band aid augments. Unfortunately, thats about it. Frost hasn't had a rework since 2015 - literally 9 years ago. As the second ever prime he is an old old frame and has been entirely overtaken by power creep. The most glaring issue with frost is that his stats don't make sense for his abilities. He is a highish shield, middling health & middling armour frame in current warframe, with 315 base armour (same as excalibur umbra), 270 base health (same as excalibur umbra or hildryn), and 550 shield (less than atlas prime). He does not have the stats to be any kind of tank like he used to be 10 odd years ago. So if he does not have the stats to be a health tank, why does his third ability scale off his armour? He doesn't have the stats to be a melee frame and is explicitly about CC and ranged combat from a bubble right now, so why does his passive rely on you being hit by a melee enemy? If he is a shield based frame, why doesn't he have any shield-restoration abilities (or even augments) like literally any other shield based frame? His second ability is straight up just an auto-subsume slot at this point. Furthermore, none of his abilities actually synergize with each other. They're all seperate, disconnected abilities unlike what any of the new frames, or reworked frames such as Ember have. Heres a couple of off the cuff ideas I've had while playing frost, feel free to add your own. Proposed Rework: Rework 1. Armoured Shields Passive. Frost's armour applies to his shields, along with his health. He gains 25 armour for 10 seconds (placeholders) per cold proc inflicted on an enemy. First Ability. Potentially make it chargable, so it can fire the snowball or a small blizzard (aka the origional captain vor trailer) that has a larger explosion per charge. Freezes enemies in direct contact, or inflicts cold procs on enemies within its outer aoe. Not an essential change, but a nice QoL one. Second Ability. SIGNIFICANTLY increase the damage, potentially based on the amount of cold procs already on a target. Restores shields scaling off damage inflicted. Third Ability. In this rework, no changes. Fourth Ability. In this rework, no changes. Good ability, decent augment. Rework 2. Simple Shields Passive. Replace his current passive with his Biting Frost augment. First Ability. Same as above. Second Ability. Same as above. Third Ability. Scale off maximum shields, rather than armour. If you wanted to double down, have frost expend his shields to form the bubble, or have any overshield frost gains while within the bubble go to its health pool (as per the reworked second ability). Fourth Ability. Same as above. I'd personally prefer the armoured shields option as I long for the days of tank frost, but the Simple Shields option would be far simpler for modding for newer players, and a simpler rework for DE. Either or, its way past time that Frost as one of the forgotten frames by DE (RIP loki) actually has an update over bandaid augments. Edit: Its time we have an indicator for how much health our current bubble has left, not a percentage (aka the iron skin change). Its been so long DE.