stoybot
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Posts posted by stoybot
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End game for me:
1. Breed lots of Kubrows.
2. Farm argon crystals to keep my Kubrow empire supplied with power cores.
3. Break lots of Kubrow dens.
4. Forma S#&$ty weapons.
5. See how long I can go in T4S with various frames.
6. Farm cores because I need to get that useless primed mod to 10/10.
7. Pray to RNGesus to drop me 1 Onorix blade so I can finally complete the full, non-exclusive collection.
8. Experiment with different looks for my frames and weapons... because Fashionframe.
9. Help out newbies in my clan.
End game for a lot of other players also includes:
1. Argue about which S#&$ty weapon is the best with 6 forma.
2. Complain about Boltor and Soma Prime scrubs.
3. Ask for reworks of various frames/weapons 24/7.
4. Curse the Stalker for not dropping that one last weapon they need.
5. Try to fill-in gaps in the neglected lore of the game.
Honestly, there's not much else you can expect in a PvE game. Enemy AI can hardly compete with players unless given ridiculous abilities that make end-game content rather pointless and frustrating. If players can't overcome an obstacle through skill, they will rapidly lose interest. PvP could be the end-game for a lot of people, but I personally find it annoying that I have to run specific loadouts just to be on an equal "meta" playing field with others. There's only so much permanent stunning I can tolerate.
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the only off the ground thing that got boosted with speed was anything dealing with melee and wall run. they have removed the momentum of air melee and spin attacks to make them more controllable. now if people want it just ask them to have wall hop make use of speed and sprint. asking them to make bullet jump make use of speed would invalidate parkour mods they aren't gonna do that. the old system is gone(parkour 1.0) that is something you will have to deal with.
I'd appreciate it if you don't put words in my mouth. I never said it should be affected by speed in general, I merely stated a fact. I actually have a post recommending a boost to the default bullet jump velocity because it's pretty bad as it is. I don't want it to be on the level of a ceramic dagger, I just want it to be less floaty and actually worthwhile: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/500656-parkour-20-velocity-increase
You're also wrong. Volt's speed never invalidated mods like Rush. In fact, if you want to go fast as a Volt you equip Rush to increase the base movement speed that would be boosted by your power strength. It makes a big difference. I actually think that Volt's Speed should increase the velocity of bullet jumps, and that would actually make the new mods more useful. As it is now, I'll never equip the new parkour mods on my Volt. They're useless.
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When I'm speeding through missions with my trusty Volt, I go out of my way to avoid gliding or bullet jumping, so I know what you mean OP. As soon as you get off the ground, your 294% power strength goes out the window.
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Just did the run and video should be coming up later (from Loki's perspective).
Here's the build I used:
We may replace Loki with an Escape Velocity Nova in future attempts since day-form Equinox is faster immediately after Metamorphosis.
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I'm game. Max strength Equinox with Sprint Boost here.
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Calls me passive aggressive while continuing to ignore my argument. Projection much? You can keep pretending I didn't say anything about headshots making a huge difference in practical, as opposed to on-paper DPS, which is my core point. Rifles and bows can keep landing those headshots at a distance, and shotguns, which would have about the same on-paper sustained DPS from afar cannot, which lowers their practical sustained DPS.
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yes, Nullifier Shields if you're at a distance(can't quickly get inside) is one weakness.
however, they are more efficient at dealing with:
- large crowds
- single targets
- close targets
- medium targets
- far targets
- Kill things Ammunition Efficiently
your (insert thing you like here) cannot compete with them because they are perfect for every situation except Nullifier Shields now.
you might say their Accuracy isn't so hot at longer Ranges - but that's actually perfect. that group of 30 Enemies over there on the other end of the room? with a few Ancient Healers in it? yeah, you just Killed ALL of those Enemies in a single shot(or maybe two).
can't aim for Headshots? well, pfft, you don't need them.
nothing can compete with that. they do every other Weapon's job almost picture perfectly. the only job they can't do (except for Strun Wraith), is Status. but they won't need it until Enemies are like, lv120+.
Brakk wasn't used everywhere because it had heavy Damage Falloff. Shotguns now have... very little.
You appear to be a veteran so I'm a bit surprised I have to explain this... Aren't you forgetting about a little something called weak spots? I'm talking about headshots in particular. My Soma Prime kills the aforementioned Heavy Gunner faster than any of the new shotguns because I can reliably dump all my bullets in his head. Its downside is that it has a much worse ammo economy. Hell, my 6-forma Akmagnus kills them as fast as the Tigris, and sometimes even the Hek because of the same reason. And the Brakk? Good luck getting all its pellets in the head of an enemy, even up close. It was by far the worst performing weapon of the bunch. And yes, I'm still using my Akmagnus more often than the Brakk after the update.
Also, how about we mention that a red-crit headshot that procs bleed from the Dread can 1-shot a level 95 Corrupted Heavy Gunner? The shotguns are nowhere near as effective as the Tonkor when dealing with crowds and their DPS falls down to the level of many rifles outside their effective range. As anyone who has faced a crowd full of Scorpions will tell you, there are significant downsides to getting into effective range.
Feel free to take the new shotguns to all your mission because Warframe Builder says they have the highest DPS. I sure as hell won't be doing that.
EDIT:
Tested a few more weapons out of curiosity and a 5-forma Lex as well as a 5-forma Twin Grakatas (with Primed Pistol Mutation equipped) performed on par and sometimes better than the Hek. Both those weapons have a much lower sustained DPS than the shotguns, yet their accuracy in landing headshots more than makes up for it.
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My Strun wraith and Boar prime might disagre with that, but yeah Hek, Strun, Tigris and Sobek got a lot of buffs.
Yeah, I feel your pain... And I was sure the Strun Wraith would be buffed...
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TBH I am personally not a fan of fire rate mods for these (except tigris) guns, so lemme give my 2c on each gun
Tigris: I read/saw a build that uses 4 in the magazine (of a sort), then modified it a bit (http://goo.gl/ebkLOV). This build will rip through grineer without much problems. Seeking fury for + reload speed and punchthrough to get the most bang out of your buck (probably wrong wording, but w/e).
Hek: Not a fan of fire rate + ammo there. Just slap in more power. Seeking fury is, again, welcome in the build.
Kohm: Screw sweeping serration and slap in a dual stat mod. Gives more stat procs and more damage (personally don't like buffing IPS stats).
Personal preference is tigris though. Can kill multiple targets easily with my build and burst down big targets.
Remove Burdened Magazine from your Tigris, put Ammo Stock in its place, add Vicious spread and you'll end up with the build I use on my punch-through config (albiet different polarities). You'll get roughly 6,000 sustained DPS increase, and about 15,000 Burst DPS increase. Vicious Spread works quite well since the Tigris pellets deal a lot of damage and can each kill fodder-type enemies. You'll lose the additional bullet in the magazine, which, depending on your playstyle, might be a negative. Also, you're losing about 1,000 DPS in your current build because of the maxed Burdened Magazine. You only need it at rank 1 to get the 4-bullet magazine.
As far as the Hek is concerned, I'd like to remind you and everyone else in this thread (as I'm sure I'll get similar comments again in the future) that damage per shot is not the whole picture. Burst DPS = Damage-per-Shot * Fire Rate. Sustained DPS = Burst DPS / (Magazine Size / Fire Rate + Reload Speed). Sustained DPS is what matters when the enemies become bullet sponges, which is where the shotguns currently shine. So when you tell me to put more power, consider the fact that my Hek fires nearly twice as fast as yours. Feel free to post a Hek build with higher sustained DPS, then we'll talk.
You are right about the Kohm though, and I appreciate the correction! I looked at it again and it does more damage both when modded for fleshy and armored enemies. I tend to count on the bleed procs, but in the case of Kohm, they're not particularly great due to the low base damage. It's definitely not a Dread/Tigris-tier weapon. Unless I'm on a Nekros and need the extra "chop" factor, I'll be running a dual-stat mod from here on.
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Did you use corrosive on one weapon and viral on another? It should take you only 5-6 shots with Hek if you build it properly
During my tests, I used Corrosive + Heat on all 3.
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I find that a lot of the comparisons depend heavily on what level of enemies you are fighting. As an example, Ammo Mutation is a viable answer to Kohm's issues provided that you are killing enemies often enough that ammo drops remain plentiful. Once enemies start reaching up into what I consider "absurd" levels of health and armor it starts to become an issue again as you can't kill enemies as fast as you are running out of ammo. Hek/Tigris won't have that issue until much later as their ammo economy is so much more efficient.
Of the three, I do find the Kohm the most fun in a mindless "obliterate everything in front of you" sort of way, but I also don't know that I really consider it a "shotgun" either; It could very easily be a rifle and I don't think anyone would argue about it.
I find Tigris difficult to use for the 'hoard mode' style of gameplay this game is almost always offering. If we had a 'quick-shot' method for melee like we have a quick-melee option for fire-arms I think I would enjoy the Tigris much more. While the damage is obviously impressive, the value of the utility mods we have doesn't ever get the gun in a good place that it feels quick enough to handle all the threats being thrown at me.
The Hek can use some mods to get enough utility going that I feel comfortable using it. 6 shots, quicker reload, punch-through, and I start to feel much more comfortable using the weapon without feeling as though I've sacrificed too much damage to make it viable.
Ammo economy is based on damage per shot, not damage per second. If you kill an enemy with 80 shots or 120 - but faster - you've still used more bullets to get a single chance at a drop. Aside from that, I agree with you, although the Kohm does feel a bit more like a shotgun when you lower its fire rate. Also, with Sweeping Serration and Nekros, you can desecrate to your heart's content. Nekros + Kohm = Hydroid 2.0.
I too struggled with the Tigris when facing large and spread-out crowds. At least the Hek's Justice stagger gave me some breathing room, and some additional shots.
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frankly, you might as well make two categories.
Kohm, and Hek/Tigris/Drakgoon.
or just don't really make the comparison at all, since there's nothing to compare to Shotguns that simultaneously fill the role of every other Weapon in the game at the same time.
so you could just use those, because they do everything, faster and easier than the other choices. just better.
a comparison would be better served once Hek, Tigris, Drakgoon, and Sobek are... readjusted. i say it like it's going to happen, because it must happen. elsewise if a Player is looking to min/max, those 4 Weapons are the only ones in the game worth using. just better.
while simultaneously being less flexible for endurance, once Enemies stop being trivialized by the Damage, there is still nothing else to bring to the table, making the other Weapons eventually more ideal. Enemies need to be pretty high Level for this to happen though.
You're ingoring utility here. For a long time the Brakk was the highest DPS weapon in the game, but you didn't see many Brakk users around - even amongst those that own it - because of its limitations. For dealing with large crowds, I'll take a Firestorm Tonkor over the new shotguns without even thinking about it. For bursting down single targets reliably - and at a distance - I still prefer the Vectis, or the buffed Lex. The Opticor and Dread are not bad either. What those weapons have as an advantage is the headshot factor, something the shotguns don't do all that well. You want to deal with Nullifiers? Have fun shooting your Tigris and Hek at their bubbles. Min-maxing is only one part of the game. Knowing what weapon is appropriate for a particular situation is another. Shotguns didn't have their niche in the past. Now they do. I don't know about overpowered but I do find that quite refreshing.
For Hek build, take off Shotgun Spazz and Ammo Stock and put on any of these 4: Breach Loader, Vicious Spread, and/or Seeking Force(Or Seeking Fury). The Hek NEEDS punch through. For a shotgun that had 4 rounds punch through will help out with multiple enemies.
You still end up with less DPS and 2 less rounds per magazine. Did you even try it out before posting? Also, I haven't commented on punch-through in the OP. Seeking Fury is a nice mod to use on them, but the comparison was in terms of DPS.
Also, don't forget that punch-through is highly dependent on the faction you're fighting. It's fantastic against Infested, but Grineer, Corpus, and Corrupted don't provide a lot of opportunities for punch-through to really shine. The builds I posted can be modified with additional forma to allow for it though.
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I owned a 6-forma Kohm prior to update 17, and since a lot of the shotguns received a well-needed buff, I figured I'd forma my Hek and Tigris to figure out which one comes out on top. Who's the king of the shotgun world?
Before I show you the builds, I'll have to clear up a few misconceptions about the Kohm. First off, Kohm's DPS is not accurate in damage calculators like Warframe Builder due to its spool-up mechanic - the longer you hold down the fire button, the more pellets it shoots out, capping at a maximum of 12. This means that you have to multiply by 12 whatever numbers Warframe Builder gives you for a more realistic sense of the damage output.
Additionally, Shotgun Ammo Mutation is a must due to Kohm's really poor ammo economy, but I'll talk more about that later.
If you ditch the Ammo Mutation mod and equip both Frail Momentum and Shotgun Spazz, you can reach a sustained DPS of roughly 110,000, which is triple the amount of what the Brakk can output. This is why Kohm is the king of all weapons. However, aside from using it to kill bullet-sponge bosses, I wouldn't recommend running such a build because you'd be out of ammo in a flash. However, there's a very important catch, which brings me to my last point regarding the Kohm.
Its spread is affected by both fire rate and spread mods, such as Frail Momentum, Shotgun Spazz, and Vicious Spread. This is actually an understatement - the spread is dramatically affected by those mods. From experience, I can tell you that running any fire rate mods will decrease your DPS by a third or even a half, depending on how close your are, the size of your target, or how clustered the enemies are. Kohm users who have at least Shotgun Spazz equipped are quite used to seeing pellets hit the ground in front of them.
Your potential DPS may be lowered even further because of an interesting mechanics I noticed while testing the Kohm in the Simulacrum. If you aim down sights, the spread of the weapon decreases to the point that without any fire rate mods equipped, you can reliably shoot most pellets in the head of an enemy at mid-range, thus increasing your single-target DPS significantly. Try it out yourself, you may be surprised by the results.
Now let's talk about maximizing the sustained DPS of the Tigris and the Hek. Since their damage-per-shot is very high and their clip size is very small, both of them actually benefit from Ammo Stock (+60% magazine capacity). Magazine size can be a huge factor in sustained DPS for particular weapons.
Here are the builds I used for testing:
Tigris: http://goo.gl/OrNv9c
Note: Incendiary coat will slightly increase your DPS against ferrite armor, but the additional bleed procs you get with Sweeping Serration more than make up for it.
Hek: http://goo.gl/NZt0Iq
Note: The two additional shots per clip are also fantastic when facing multiple enemies.
Kohm: http://goo.gl/yQ7Sjw
Note: Using Shotgun Spazz instead of Sweeping Serration will increase your DPS, but at the cost of facing ammo issues much earlier on. A good strategy with very ammo inefficient weapons is to increase damage per shot, which is why I'd rather take this build to a long survival mission than the one with increased fire rate. Also, as I mentioned, there are downsides to increasing the spread of the weapon.
Numbers wise, the Kohm still comes out on top with a bit over 50k DPS, but it's closely followed by the Hek's 46.5k. Tigris is last with close to 40k DPS, but bear in mind that it's still one of the top sustained DPS weapons in the game - and even slightly ahead of the Brakk. The Tigris has one additional benefit that is quite hard to measure - the bleed procs are amazing.
I went to the Simulacrum to test the weapons in-engine, which immediately highlighted some issues that weren't apparent on Warframe Builder. I spawned a level 95 Corrupted Heavy Gunner and killed him repeatedly with all 3 weapons. The Kohm, due to its slow spool up, came last as far as speed of killing was concerned. The Hek came out on top, as would be expected from a puncture-based weapon. However, the differences between the three shotguns were not that significant (about 1-2 seconds). If this was a party with 4 Corrosive Projections, the Tigris and the Kohm would perform a lot better. As far as the scenario of facing multiple enemies is concerned, the Kohm is the winner in my opinion. Once fully spooled, it destroys everything you point it at, and the innate 1-meter punch-through.is always appreciated. If you want to add punch-through to the Hek and the Tigris, you'll need 1 additional forma on both, and their DPS will go down quite a bit.
All 3 weapons are top-tier without a doubt, but if you had to pick up only one, should it be the Kohm? The answer is no. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it's not worth putting any forma in it yet. What I haven't mentioned so far is how many rounds it took to kill that Heavy Gunner. The Hek and the Tigris took roughly 8 to 10 rounds. On the other hand, the Kohm took, on average, about 70. This means that you'll need 8 rifle ammo pickups (7 shotgun and 5 sniper) to replenish the ammo you wasted on killing that enemy. Hek and Tigris need only 1 shotgun ammo pickup to do the same.
"Ah, but I'll use Team Ammo Restores," you say. Good luck with that! You'll need 9 Medium Team Ammo restores to fully replenish the Kohm's ammo, while you'll only need 1 for the other two shotguns. I'd say the Kohm is not viable for any mission in which it takes more than 30-40 ammo to kill an enemy. Granted, given how powerful the Kohm is, it will take you a while to reach that point. Furthermore, without any fire rare mods, the spool-up time is quite bad... and frustrating.
The ammo economy issue with the Kohm is due to the fact that it's an outlier in the world of shotguns with its low damage per shot. Even a Primed Shotgun Mutation is not going to solve the problem. With the Kohm 3.0 update, DE crippled its ammo economy, but unlike the Synoid Gammacor nerf, we don't have access to the fantastic Primed Pistol Mutation. The Gammacor's damage per shot is also well adjusted relative to other secondaries, so the ammo drops replenish a significant chunk of its maximum ammunition. Sadly, this is not the case with the Kohm.
After running missions with all 3 weapons, my favourite one is definitely the Hek. I have to admit that I enjoy the Kohm more when I have Shotgun Spazz equipped, but I don't run it in endless missions - or regular ones - for all the reasons I've outlined above. The Hek's Justice proc can be quite a lifesaver (not to mention how amazing it is on an Ice Chroma), and the 6 shots are just enough to deal with a small group of enemies. If you want to burst down a heavy unit, you can do that too. The high status chance further increases your DPS when running Corrosive/Viral builds and can make a huge difference. It's also not particularly dependent on Corrosive Projection due to its high puncture damage. Interestingly enough, when modded for a 4-Corrosive-Projection squad, it still deals higher DPS to Cloned Flesh/Flesh targets compared to the Tigris.
In theory, a toxic Chroma can make the Tigris amazing. However, in practice, the toxic Chroma is rather squishy and way too limiting in terms of frame choice.
I'll say this at the end: If you like to play with shotguns, try these 3 weapons in-game before you make up your mind. They all have a different feel to them yet their DPS is top-tier regardless of which one you choose. U17 is great for all the shotgun lovers out there!
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The recoil limiter only comes into play if there is another round in the magazine. Since VP only has one round with Depleted Reload, there should be no recoil delay. The difference in sustained DPS shown in your two builds should be accurate.
You are right! I just tested it and it works exactly like the old Vectis. It's settled then, Vectis Prime is better in every aspect.
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Would the Second Proposal of Tentacle Swarm also be a viable option?:
SECOND PROPOSED CHANGES FOR TENTACLE SWARM
- TENACLE SWARM GETS BUFFED UP A BIT WHERE IT DOES DIFFERENT EFFECTS AND DAMAGE BASED ON ITS ATTACKS
- 1st Tentacle Attack: a radial swipe attack staggering all enemies within its area
- 2nd Tentacle Attack: a slam attack that will down any enemy within its attack but deals additional more damage if the tentacle lands directly on an enemy
- Effect on Pilfering Swarm: Pilfering Swarm now gives a debuff to any enemy that is hit with a tentacle allowing additional 100% drop rate as long as Tentacle Swarm is active.
- Each tentacle uses either attack 1 time per second
- Range increases the size of the tentacles which increases the tentacles' attack ranges but Range Mods cannot effect the spawn radius of the Tentacles
I like the radial slam/knockdown idea and it may be a lot more thematic/look cooler but it doesn't fix the reliability issue of Swarm. It's too random to offer proper CC and the duration dependence/inability to cancel makes it even worse with the Pilfering change. Being able to adust your range to fit your needs is quite useful for Hydro. With your proposal there's no downside to running large range. I think the reverse is better. Fixed AoE radius and adjustable spawn range.
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So that's what happened to my HUD during a raid yesterday... I fixed it by toggling it off and back on from the settings; didn't know I was being griefed.
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Depleted reload is just great, you just don't know how DPS works.
Here's a Vectis build:
Here's a Vectis Prime build:
Take a look at the sustained DPS, which is what actually matters when the enemies become tough. Replacing the reload speed mods for elemental/physical damage will actually LOWER your sustained DPS, but increase the burst DPS for one-shotting mid-level enemies. With burst builds, the Vectis Prime still beats the normal Vectis.
EDIT:
Forgot to mention the difference in the reload mechanic. Given that you can start reloading the Vectis faster, without waiting for the recoil animation to end, it might actually come near the sustained DPS of its primed counterpart.
EDIT 2:
As was pointed out by another Tenno, the recoil canceling reload trick works with Vectis Prime + Depleted Reload. This makes the Vectis Prime better in every aspect, although the difference in sustained DPS leaves something to be desired. How about a slight critical chance buff DE?
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All true, but one of the issues I see is the ragdoll effect of Tentacle. It be less of a hassle to have some way of keeping the enemy in place so you can kill them and still gain the loot buff other than having enemies flailing around like mad making it harder for players to kill the captured enemies themselves.
Yup, that's why I said you need a shotgun with a decent spread or a good AoE weapon like the Tonkor.
Since OP wanted suggestions on how to improve Hydro, here's how Swarm can become much better in my opinion.
1. Spawn a tentacle for each enemy in the target area upon casting. Instead of ragdolling them like crazy, have the tentacles attack everything in a small AoE and freeze/hold the enemies that are hit dealing damage over time. Call it Tentacle Sting.
2. Allow for the deactivation of the ability, which would explode the tentacles and deal the burst damage that is now applied during the tentacle spawn (apply it at the end instead of the beginning).
3. Lower activation cost slightly, introduce energy drain per second. Maybe drain Hydro's energy faster relative to how many enemies are "stung."
This change won't tie Hydroid to duration, thus allowing him to use his Tidal Surge, which is a pretty good ability. At the same time, you'll have to pick your battles. Do you want a large range that would be suitable for targetting widespread enemies yet allowing more of them to bypass your tentacles (as new ones come in), or a small impenetrable wall for holding down corridors and whatnot.
Since you can toggle the ability on and off, your allies can dispatch stung enemies with precision, as opposed to having an AoE nuker spam its abilities, hoping enough enemies would be caught by the tentacles for the extra loot to drop. Furthermore, the burst damage upon deactivation solves the issue of low vs high duration. You can activate and deactivate for more damage, but higher energy cost - or let the tentacles stay around for longer periods of time
Finally, the increased reliability of the tentacles will allow the Hydro to get a bit more kills/minute on lower level nodes, thus offseting, to a degree, the nerfed loot drop rate.
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I was reading the hotfix thread and all the comments about how the nerf isn't all that bad. You can now get additional loot from high level enemies, people who rarely play Hydroid claim. Just wait for the tentacles to catch them! He's a great CC frame, people who have barely played Hydroid say.
What was most baffling is the people suggesting high range and duration build are the way to go now. I seriously question whether most commenters have played Hydroid longer than what it took to level him up on Draco. Do you know what happens when you cast Swarm with high duration and tentacles come out from the ceiling? Duration builds were only somewhat useful for infested defence (if the spawn doesn't get bugged or an enemy doesn't become stuck and invulnerable, forcing you to abort) and the occasional survival camp. Mind you, with a Trinity around, low duration was still better.
So yeah, keep waiting for the tentacles to catch the enemies. And even if they do, have fun shooting them with anything but a shotgun or an AoE weapon. The only reason I put up with how incredibly unreliable Swarm is was the additional loot. High risk, high reward. I'd rather take a Nekros now for farming anything that doesn't drop from drones.
I get that DE wants to sell boosters. I don't buy the claims that they want to reduce the grind. They want to make money and I'm fine with that. But how about you fix some of the major issues with frames like Hydroid before you nerf their utility? I'm getting somewhat tired of knee-jerk nerfs, or knerfs, as I call them.
On a side note, thanks for making my Arcane Eruption 50% less effective.
Also, there goes my only use for Equinox. But maim is so scalable, stoybot! Yeah, right; it will be, when the range is increased.
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I realized I forgot to add Shattering Impact to my list. Fixed!
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I ran the Jackal solo with a Pilfering Hydroid until the Ospreys dropped it. It's the best place to farm them. Just keep kiting him while killing the numerous Mine Ospreys that spawn.
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Lightning Dash looks quite cool on my Volt. Very thematic.
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Check your keybindings. The option is there.
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Apparently Ferretking has beaten every single one of us.
These stats are old. There were bugs that made such times possible.
Needlessly Holding Sprint And Block
in General
Posted
Skill? More like carpal tunnel. Games like Counter Strike get the concept right - sprint by default, hold down "walk" to slow down. Toggle sprint is completely useless at the moment, particularly after stamina was removed.