torint_man
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Posts posted by torint_man
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Mahd2_7 said:
Obviously at sortie 3 he is a tank I said to a "certain level" he just loses that face tank title because that's not what he is he's a CC or healing frame. I'm not saying that he can't be a face tank but at the high levels I'm talking about he just isn't
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's what you've been attempting to claim the whole time. But lets look at the original post
There's a common misconception going around that Inaros is a face up tank I think that's because of his huge health pool and scarab armour but it isn't true Inaros can't be classed as a face up tank as believe it or not
You start off with the claim that Inaros is not a face tank. You come off as very unambiguously saying this applies to Inaros in general.
in survivals, where his niche is, he will get killed very quickly at certain levels. Inaros is more of a CC frame as he has no damage reduction abilities and no armour dosent count because at a certain point it just becomes redundant. Nidus however is a face up tank due to his dage reduction abililty he can take and soak up damage. Having a huge health pool and an ability that gives you armour dosent make you a face up tank so let's clear the air on that one
You continue on, while not explicitly clarifying that this only ever applies to hyper endurance. The "in survivals, where his niche is" statement implies that Inaros is not useful outside of that context, and that other contexts are irrelevant. As such people interpreted your OP to be "Inaros is not a face tank under any circumstances", me included. As such, people were attacking the claim they thought you made, and you never clarified what your claim actually was. As such, we get this back and forth cluster fug of a forum thread.
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Just now, (PS4)Mahd2_7 said:
I'm not calling him a bad tank just a face tank isn't what he is. Inaros is more of a CC or healing tank more so than a face tank because of his move set that let him cc and heal himselves which is his speciality
In the context of sortie 3, which is the highest this game obligates you to go, Inaros is absolutely 100% a face tank. In the context of hyper endurance, he isn't quite all that. Absolutely. But to claim that a niche part of this game speaks for the entirety of a frame is not a good claim to make. 90% of players don't bother with hyper endurance, and as such their use of Inaros enables face tanking. To try to walk up to them and say "no that's wrong because he isn't all that in a gameplay context you never participate in and are never obligated or rewarded to do so", is asinine.
3 minutes ago, (PS4)Mahd2_7 said:Armour is a flat number/value which can't be increased. Correct?? So as the enemies become stronger and have stronger attacks then what does that mean? That armour will be broken through quicker.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor
Armor is a multiplicative damage reduction.
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16 minutes ago, wiinston17 said:
Try out ice chroma with 254 strength and 212 duration. cast vex armor followed by ice ward once Fury has been maxed out, then we can talk
350*(1+1.5*2.54+3.5*2.54) = 4800 armor = 17 EHP multiplier
740*17 = 12580 EHP
Fire chroma: 350*(1+3.5*2.54) = 3500 = 12.666 EHP multiplier
740 + 100*(2*2.54) = 1250 health, 1250*12.666 = 15800 EHP
Fire chroma is objectively better than ice chroma.
Your claim that Chroma is a great tank to the point of implying it's better than inaros (that's what this thread is about, Inaros being a worse tank than everybody else) is objectively false, and your evidence to that implication is worse than the examples I provided. You made a worse case for chroma than I did.
Don't get me wrong chroma is a great face tank, but to imply he's unique in that regard is objectively false.
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Just now, (PS4)Mahd2_7 said:
I'm talking about solo endurance runs so why would I not compare them or try to use them
Because you are attempting to say that Inaros cannot be considered a "face up tank" due to him dying to enemies that deal several times the damage of sortie 3 enemies. Of course he'll die to those enemies. No "face up tank" can survive those enemies, except for nidus because mass CC and 6 get out of jail free cards, and rhino if you use a health conversion build.
"Oh no, he isn't literally fuggin invincible, that means you can't call him a tank". That is how you are coming off right now. He is a face up tank, just not one that has literal invincibility (nidus) or exponential survivability (nidus and health conversion rhino). To call his perception of tankiness a "misconception" is objectively false. 90% of players don't give a ship about level 300 survival, so saying they aren't allowed to call Inaros a tank because of gameplay they don't even participate in is asinine.
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5 minutes ago, wiinston17 said:
Chroma begs to differ
Not really? Fire chroma gets something like 20K EHP with 300% power strength (fire chroma is better than ice chroma BTW), and Inaros is 18K without arcane guardian and 28K with it.
Anyway, the OP of this thread is under the mistaken assumption that just because a frame can't take large punishment in the levels beyond 200. That is an unreasonable bar to uphold one to. The game is fundamentally different once you get past the sortie 3 level. Exponential scaling rears its ugly head and dictates exponential stacking in response. Inaros technically doesn't have a multiplicative survivability buff, but come on. He has 5610 health easily. If you stacked on chroma's ice buff and gara's 2, guess what? Exponential EHP scaling allows one to survive exponential damage scaling. Tack on vazarin's healing dash and you get 60% healing over 5 seconds of that 5610 health.
So what if he can't face tank level 300s by himself? Why should he?
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Back in February, every primary and secondary weapon got rebalanced, and made it so all weapon adhered to some unknown formula of DPS and status where higher MR means higher DPS and/or status.
Vasto after the rebalance:
Mastery Rank increased from 0 to 4
Damage increased from 50 to 58
Status chance increased from 5% to 8%
Critical chance increased from 15% to 20%
Critical damage increased from 1.5 to 1.8x
Akvasto after the rebalance:
Mastery Rank increased from 0 to 8
Damage increased from 50 to 58
Status chance increased from 5% to 12%
Critical chance increased from 15% to 16%
Critical damage increased from 1.5x to 1.8x
Reload speed decreased from 1.8 to 2 secs
Fire rate decreased.
It's pretty clear DE deliberately made the buffs to the akvasto lean more towards status than DPS, and the single vasto was meant for more damage per shot. Also, the magnus and akmagnus are literally just objectively better Vastos.
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You don't need to have the rescue target actually follow you. He will often teleport to you if you get ahead, and you can even finish the mission while he's down if you reach extraction before he bleeds out.
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21 hours ago, Kyoresh said:
lol...never undetstood why so many are recommending Rage/HA on Excal...its completly useless you dont need that much Energy...
Oh boy then you'll hate my favorite umbra build: https://goo.gl/WUqVZw
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15 minutes ago, Dreddeth said:
you're probably a liar if you're saying her kit is still as effective with neither duration nor efficiency.
Going somewhat off topic, what would you think of this build, being such a skillful saryn player as you claim you are?
I use the vazarin focus tree for healing, and I do plan on formaing further for better aura and exilus. I straight up don't run out of energy with rage+adrenaline, and haven't ever bothered with more duration, as everything dies super fast from miasma in my experience, going even beyond solo round 8 ESO.
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@Cibyllae This "universal build" is not any sort of big deal because you have barely any capacity to mod for range, strength, and efficiency. Being immortal (not really in this case) means jack if your abilities aren't effective, look no further than Wukong for proof of this. The only frame that can take actual advantage of it to an extent that matters is umbra himself. This is the build I use for Umbra: https://goo.gl/wYLcTH
I use both rage and adrenaline to provide massive energy returns, and life strike on exalted to provide massive health returns. I'd say it's quite good.
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10 minutes ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:
Okay it may seem like I'm asking for a cheesy gimmick buff, but really its more complex then that.
Iron Skin's formula is [Modified Health = (Base Health + (2.5 × Base Armor × (1 + Armor Bonus))) × (1 + Ability Strength) + Absorbed Damage]. Assuming one is using a vanilla mod setup with a maxed Vitality, Steel Fiber, and Intensify; the value for Iron Skin's health becomes 2,856.75 for Rhino and 3,436.875 for Rhino Prime. While this may look like a lot, its actually rather flimsy against crowds of level 45+. However if Rhino had 300 armor and Rhino Prime had 385, the numbers would be 3607.5 and 4187.625, respectively. Its honestly not that much more; all of 2 seconds more invulnerability at level 50. That said, Rhino's actual health gets a huge benefit from this. Rhino goes from having 163% effective health to 200%, and Rhino Prime goes from 191.67% to 228.34% effective health. This allows him to survive much longer with his shield down and without special gimmicks.
My point is less about buffing Iron Skin, and more on making sure Rhino can remain steadfast even when its not deployed. Having one of the single beefiest Warframes in the game get downed after a few direct shots is just a sad display.
Current rhino prime EHP: 740/(1-(270*2.1)/(270*2.1+300)) = 2139
Proposed rhino prime EHP: 740/(1-(385*2.1)/(385*2.1+300)) = 2734
2734/2139 = 28% EHP increase.
That does jack for his survivability. Rhino is fundamentally much less survivable outside of iron skin. Take into account status and CC immunity from iron skin and no amount of reasonable armor buffs will make rhino survivable outside of iron skin. I'd rather use the mod slot that you use vitality in for something else anyway. Rhino does not suffer from the stats his abilities use. Neutral or stretch range is plenty, you want to invest in strength regardless because roar, and transient fortitude + PC duration (127.5%) is good enough. Efficiency is trivialized with Zenurik anyway, and if you have 130% efficiency you'll be spamming rhino stomp all day.
27 minutes ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:Having one of the single beefiest Warframes in the game get downed after a few direct shots is just a sad display.
Once you get to the levels you'll actually die in seconds without iron skin active, literally every frame in the game bar inaros dies in seconds if they don't have their abilities active. There is no sad display if you aren't using your abilities. Just because rhino is a tank frame doesn't mean his basic EHP should be high. Leave that to Inaros and Chroma. Rhino's tankiness is balanced around him having 99-100% iron skin uptime.
Also, remember, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Choose 2: insane survivability, insane CC. Can't have both. You can't get both, and your proposal doesn't give you both either.
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I'd say something like Oberon+Gara for mutual 90% damage reduction and good healing. Once you get better mods you can do the "walk into enemies and they die" build with Gara. I would go so far as to say that combo would carry you through sorties.
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4 hours ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:
Again: Rhino is fully capable of being a dedicated tank. I am aware. The problem isn't that he can't tank, the problem is that he can't tank WITHOUT sacrificing his other abilities. Iron Skin is his only ability that doesn't benefit from some sort of range or duration boost so these mods, which are vital to upping his support capabilities, never get put on him.
Simply put: He needs higher base armor so he can be a competent tank while still having room to buff his support capability.
So what you are asking is to have to put less investment to have the same effect for iron skin. You might as well be asking "buff iron skin to make rhino easier to use". (Implying he isn't the easiest frame to use in the game already) If you want to face tank with impunity, you have to invest in it. If you want to increase your range, you have to take away from another stat. God forbid you can no longer face tank with impunity.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Anyways, my build does not cause his support capabilities to suffer (https://goo.gl/Ag8zxG). 127.5% duration and 100% range do just fine. 38 second roar and 25 meter roar and stomp. They do just fine in my experience. Funnily enough, buffing rhino's base armor would do very little for this build.
If you want a build with more efficiency and range, here's an interesting gimmick I just made: (https://goo.gl/xTRbKU). Does this come to your high standards of face tanking and team supporting?
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1 hour ago, Double_C said:
welllll, if your the host you can BJump with ivara by standing still and press crouch jump, and walking with controller.
It's pretty unreliable though, and being suddenly visible as Ivara is a death sentence, while with Loki you can work around your timer. Doing a stationary bullet jump in my experience is barely faster than jump roll double jumping anyway. You could at least recommend using the operator, which still isn't perfect because you overshoot and end up on top of a door frame half the time.
Regardless, even best case scenario Ivara movement tech is slower and more awkward (or difficult) than basic Loki movement.
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Loki is way faster and can regen energy during invisibility, Ivara has zero downtime, great damage, and sleep arrow. Basically, I'd say Loki is more practical for clearing the star chart, and Ivara has a better niche.
Loki is way faster to acquire, having to do something like 50 spy missions on average for Ivara is a bit daunting.
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38 minutes ago, envenger said:
Okay thank you everyone,
Any suggestion on a secondary weapon, mostly hit scan that can hit ranged fast moving targets?
I got suggestion like Akbolto online but it looks like it would take some time to get it done.I'd say either vasto or aklex. Vasto is a quick revolver, high fire rate, small magazine, fast reload. Aklex is a slow pistol sniper kind of thing. Akbolto isn't hitscan.
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Having a discrepancy between blueprint accessibility and resource accessibility forces the player to acknowledge the fact that resources need to be consciously acquired, and not something you can just passively magically accrue. The player is encouraged to go further out into the star chart, such as Phobos in the case of rhino, and not just skulk around Mars for three days while rhino is in the foundry.
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4 minutes ago, Williamwaitunnaing said:
My problem is why cannot he cast iron skin when iron skin is active? Why do I need to equip an augment to do it?
Balance. Being able to at will recast literal invincibility is a tad bit by the way of OP. Perhaps not that OP, but something substantial enough to warrant the cost of a mod slot. The ironclad charge build is still godly regardless of having to dedicate two mod slots to augments, even better if you use health conversion.
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Use Health conversion. The one that gives you additive armor on gaining health orbs. You don't lose the stacks whilst in iron skin, and Ironclad charge multiplies the armor you get from health conversion. The broken scepter works fine for health orbs (so long as you don't get the bug where it doesn't work the entire mission), you equip iron shrapnel and then put everything else into strength, then streamline and primed continuity. Zenurik gets you energy, so you can have your 135% roar have 100% uptime. Having only 100% range may or may not be acceptable, but considering hitting a crowd with charge easily gets you over 100K iron skin, who cares.
God forbid you get the void buff whilst fighting infested.
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1 hour ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:
Fire rate is objectively terrible on burst fire weapons.
For burst-fire weapons, such as the Burston and Tiberon, fire rate affects both the speed of the burst as well as the time between bursts from Hotfix 17.4.3 onwards.
For the OP, I have a +CC +CD and a curse of +recoil. Having +damage or multishot on top of that would technically be better, but it doesn't matter that much. Also, my +recoil is hardly noticeable. Basically, any combination of crit stats, damage, and multishot is the ideal riven, so long as you get a curse, and that curse isn't crippling.
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If they didn't have a soft time limit, the maiming strike accolyte would die way too quickly. Which actually happened. In the first accolyte event, the argon scope one died so fast DE had to bring it back.
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Survival at the sortie 3 level isn't that hard with the dedicated tank frames (oberon, inaros, rhino, wukong, nidus, chroma, valkyr, excal umbra) and having healing for the frames that need it or the invisibility frames (beware of AoE though). Once you get to level 200 and beyond you start needing to set yourself up with stacking damage reduction (multiple tank frames in the squad that synergize, ancient healer specter), or outright invincibility (volt's shield being the best for this IMO).
Brain dead ways of tanking would be either Gara or Inaros, as the first can apply 90% damage reduction and Inaros has 4K health with armor.
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2 hours ago, Eidolon_Slayer said:
Resource farming over time.
2 hours ago, Chrisplaysmore said:Ressources ... ?
Not really. Ever since resource deposits became a thing it became largely unnecessary. Also, things like Ivara + Lua sentients gets you covered for neurodes, Kuva survival gets you covered for neural sensors, Gallium is a non issue due to dropping in 2-3 at a time, Orokin cells are covered if you affinity farm at Helene, morphics are everywhere, and control modules are a non issue.
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2 minutes ago, kyori said:
You think people are all stupid eh? I can’t find the info on this particular part that’s why I’m asking here. If you can’t help with an answer then please shut up. You’re one of the reason why people say Warframe community is toxic.
No part of the Mass vitrify description in the wiki implies a ramping of damage. It's not the wiki's fault you came up with the assumption that it did.
As for why there's a drain over time, that's simple. Bigger area of expansion means more enemies are coated with glass. There is a benefit to a larger area, so there is a cost.
As for the abrasive behavior, sorry. I'm just so bewildered at how god dam many questions get asked that have such a simple and easy to access answer.
Help with Octavia Mods
in Players helping Players
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I'd go with this build, and use Zenurik focus. https://goo.gl/8u6NpY