[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

5 minutes ago, Zendadaist said:

I am under the impression that DE considers Mutagen Sample drop rates to be working as intended. Where is this assumption that they are bugged or otherwise not working as intended and therefore have a chance of being 'fixed'?

(Hint to DE: This is your cue to quietly bump up the drop rates of Mutagen Sample by a significant margin.)

It's pretty much that they drop at a rate of approx. 1 per minute at the derelict, they also drop on Eris, but there, at a slower rate than NEURODES.
Only on Eris, are the blue research drops considered a rare drop, all other planets drop their blue pods MUCH faster.

Thus, I'm thinking Eris drops are bugged, and got ignored, because almost nothing in the game required mutagen samples anyway.

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

1 hour ago, LordLokai said:

*snip*

Ok, first of all, you may want to word that more nicely, being aggressive just makes others aggressive, which only reduces the chances of getting any useful response back from them.

Second, compare his eye movements here, https://clips.twitch.tv/de_steve/TenderTigerRalpherZ
With this article http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies_eyes.php
He's constantly looking to the left, which would indicate a lie, *IF* he was talking about a past event at the time.
However, he's not, at the time he starts looking left, he's talking about how the people that already did the research would react, which makes this a prediction.

He's pretty much imagining that lowering the requirements would just get them yelled at, AGAIN(this time by people that may want stuff like booster refunds), and thus wouldn't properly solve the problem.

Try to relax, and remember context is key :)

That also dosn't mean no fix is coming, just that the ideal one we want, might be the hardest one for them to actually do.
Just as a first step, they could, say, FIX ERIS DROP RATES, which would instantly make grinding for this about 75% less boring, and include missions people might actually do regularly, and ones where matchmaking works, instead of only grindfest ones that require premade groups.
It would still be a highly unreasonable cost, but it wouldn't be putting us up against the wall for plat spending like it is right now.

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

12 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

You're forgetting that not all guilds are at the max population of their tier, so really you're looking at an average of 50% participation for just 50% of the max possible members.

I'm intentionally being as optimistic as possible, the realistic time quote is MUCH lower,

But true, most clans are nowhere near capacity at that, a moon clan with near minimum members is looking at a minimum 1.6k samples PER PERSON.

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

2 hours ago, The_Doc said:

Just dropping back in to express my disappointment at Steve's response during the stream.

They change stuff people paid money for (like Rivens, weapons, those new syandanas that open up when bulletjumping, etc) yet this would be crossing the line? I believe the good of the game comes before any group's feelings.
The cost is objectively too high. DE screwed up their statistics when looking at how much mutagen the playerbase had, it's like they looked at an average and not a median, and completely disregarded clan population and activity.

Perhaps they didn't do the napkin math, the standard is to play WITHOUT boosters, so, we go with the 1 mutagen sample per minute base in ODS and ODD, ignoring eris because it's drop rate is closer to 1 per hour, which is just silly(drop chances quoted from elsewhere in the thread)
Also that gives us a baseline of how much this costs in time WITHOUT paying any form of real life money for the weapon(i.e. plat)

Then we assume nekros, optimal desecrate should give 50% extra, so, raising it to 1.5 per minute.
Hydroid and Atlas have their own boosts, but less reliably tag everyone, but let's say they add another 50% chance to the base.
Then we have a 2 per minute, making it 40 samples per 20 minute/round ODS/ODD, which should match the 160-200 WITH BOOSTERS quote a dozen or two pages back when someone tested it.

Now Taylor said each guild member should donate 500 each, so, at 40 samples per 20 minutes, that's about 12 or so 20 minute/wave ODD/ODS, coming in at "only" 4 hours of grind, per person.
Now lets give the guilds a 50% actual participation in farming(VERY generous in my experience), and it's looking like 8 hours of grinding per person... for active guilds, NOT social ones, which are very popular.

Then take into account, there's no variety to do this, it's ODD and ODS only, and you are looking at a VERY boring monotonous meta-grinding session, and no-non grinding way to get mutagen samples.
There is no reason to do any of the derelict missions, so going there will be for mutagen samples.
Eris drops are a joke, doing missions there for the samples will take YEARS.

Paying plat to make this easyer looking more tempting isnt it?
Boosters are NOT reliably free, so booster grinding is also paying plat for the weapon.

Even if I forgot something that would double or triple the speed, it's still looking like hours(plural) of very boring times running the same mission over and over.

This is just simple napkin math quoting other peoples numbers, but it's very much looking like the players that finished the research already, either had the stockpile already, or paid for the boosters for everyone to go grind.

I can't see any way around this DE, this weapon is either to be paid for with plat, in one way or another, or setting the players up for an VERY boring time.
It's rather lacking any "actual normal gameplay" way to ever end up with the samples.

 

EDIT: ooh, and this is assuming the clan is full, a moon clan that just reached the status of moon, is looking at a minimum 1.6k PER PERSON, probably closer to 3k+ assuming optimistic participation levels.. are we intended to limit membership or kick people for the sake of research meta?

Because that's now happening.

[need tips to complete riven mod challenge]

I had one of those that allowed energy but had to be done solo, and lvl 30+

I tried neptune - yursa(lvl 30-40) first, it's lower level than akkad(35-45), so easyer, with a maxed slowa and soma prime.

Make sure everything stays in slow motion, and it's quite doable.

.. I'm not sure what I would have done if it didn't allow energy, the infested that lob the AoE goo keep doing damage to the pod if they get in line of sight of it, so without the 75% slow from a maxed nova they keep messing up the mission

[Remove the Infested Cyst]

You think yours is bad, I set my mag up with a clean shades-of-blue, theme, and now there is ONE throbbing pink eyesore on my mag.
What am I supposed to do?
A flaming shades-of-pink theme would hide this..

hmm..

Whoever meets my mag in public, blame DE for the upcoming abuse of the valentines day color set!

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

2 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

read again, "that's what they did with nitain"

When they introduced wukong they introduced nitain at the same time, bothering everybody because the ressource wasn't farmable before the research was introduced.

Other than that, they could simply turn mutagen/fieldron/detonite samples into argon-like ressources, you have to farm them and use them as soon as possible.

People would hate it though, but it would be the "pigment" you're talking about.

.. you seem to be missing my point, I meant EXACTLY like the color research.

Stuff that drops from mobs, commonly, but ONLY AFTER you start the research project, and vanishes when the project ends.

Niatin was just "adding a new item and a new resource at the same time", it's not even close to the same.

[Quitting Warframe, DE you brought this on yourself.]

12 minutes ago, Sengsara said:

Prior to, all of this was implemented into the game and DE is not the greatest but they are certainly not idiots, I can't imagine them not taking into consideration the extent of these actions would have, them returning from a holiday break is not the second coming of Christ, I don't expect them to get right on track and fix everything, but hey, if they do I would return for sure, but I cannot call this a break as I can be fully committed to never return, I hope not though.

Like I said I hope they do and if so I'll return, but i don't deal in hope I deal in facts, and the future doesn't look bright especially if the rumors regarding the vaccinations are going to cost Platinum with a farm rate comparable to Mutagens.

Wow, I do hope that rumor is *bleep*

If I need to pay plat to vaccinate every single frame in my collection, or learn to love space herpes.. nope, that's WAY too far.
That's straight up adding annoying stuff to the game and asking for payment for you to play like before the change.
What's next? a "free" little Ewok buddy that babbles all the time, that you can pay plat to NOT have?

Nope, additions like that, and the game gets the middle finger.. I do not have stockholm syndrome..

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

Here's an idea: if they don't want research to just auto-finish when they release it.. why don't they make research work like the color stuff?

Make it require stuff that dosn't start dropping until the research is started.
That way it can be some sort of a challenge, for everyone, regardless of how much they stockpile the construction related resources.

[Is the Hema to expensive, or were past research items in general to cheap?]

WAY too expensive, but, past research has also been too cheap.
There are some items in the dojo research that take tons of boring grinding, or months of actual wait, if people cant be bothered.
Other items in the dojo i have personally finished a dozen at at time, for a shadow clan.. as a semi-noob..
Some middle ground is needed.

And hema very much is NOT it, hema uniquely cant be finished with patience, it mandates super long dedicated meta-grind sessions in one of only two maps.. both of which are boring.

Here's an idea, if they don't want research to just auto-finish when they release it.. why don't they make research work like the color stuff.. make it require stuff that dosn't start dropping until the research is started?
That way it can be some sort of a challenge, for everyone, regardless of how much they stockpile the construction related resources.

[Remove the Infested Cyst]

I have to agree with OP, just, I'm intentionally taking only two of my frames into public play because *bleep* *bleep* space herpes.

If I had to choose between having this thing, and a charger pet eventually, or, getting rid of it, and never ever seeing the charger pet.. I would dump that charger like.. a throbby lump of cancer sticking to my neck.. EWW..

 

WTB space herpes vaccination.

[How long does DE take to answer a ticket]

It may depend on topic, the only ticket I ever had to submit was prime-access related and that got replied to in about 18 hours.

So yeah, I'm betting 50$+ purchase issues get priority over fashion frame issues for example.

That said, almost everyone there is on vacation, I would expect unusually long wait times during the holidays.

[Quitting Warframe, DE you brought this on yourself.]

Well, releasing an expansion like this over the holidays, and then not having the staff around to bugfix was a tad irresponsible, but it's Janurary 1st, they come back TOMORROW, nice timing to quit after waiting through their entire vacation.
I cant speak about the bugs because I haven't encountered them myself.

The one thing I agree with you on is that space-herpes needs to go away.
It's seriously annoying to see many of my frames have an out of place pink blob on their neck at all times.

WTB space-herpes vaccination

[[Spoilers] SoTR has altered story progression in a wrong way]

Wait.. *bleep* I started playing about 10 months ago, and I genuinely thought the two step version was the actual story

 

The bits about Alad NOT being in love with the infection are completely missing for me, and I thought cured-Alad in the second dream was just DE playing loose with the canon.

[Stealth nerf on Riven mod Chance?]

I have had the same experience, I play the sortie every single day, not a single riven since the "we made rivens more common" patch

Have gotten a bunch of reactors(I have 25 built ones now with no frame needing one), 

Have also gotten a ton of lenses, including many greater lenses(I'm putting lenses on very meh weapons because I cant be bothered to sell them)

And I'm up to 57k endo stored, and I swear I'm getting more 4k endo rewards than 2k endo.

I even got a legendary core and an more than one exilus.

Come to think of it, the ONLY reward I have NOT received since that patch, is an orokin catalyst, and a riven mod.

That combined with the number of complaints about this, makes me suspect something is wrong.

 

There's "RNGesus hates you" and there's "getting more gold and purple rewards than bronze ones", and I'm sitting at the latter.. ironically while caring ONLY about the "common" riven drop.

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:42 AM, Irorone said:

There have been multiple threads about vaulted primes, especially since the relic system came out.  More or less they asked why are primes still vaulted if this relic update was supposed to fix the tables.  Many, MANY people didn't, and still don't, like the vault.  Literally the only people that do are ones with stockpiles of the vaulted items looking to make a merry profit on trade chat/warframe.market.

So yeah there's actually been a fair bit "complaining" there too.  It's just died down because it felt like it was falling on deaf ears.

I estimate I have well over 5000p worth of vaulted prime stuff, and I still would prefer the vault nonsense stop, because it's not fair.
I will still cheer if it happens, even without warning, making my stockpiles dukat fodder, because I'll be able to pull several friends back in with the news that the thing they quit over has been removed.

The complaining has slowed down a bit, because it IS falling on deaf ears.. I'm quite sure this is making money, especially on paper, with a nice "prime vault sales" figure for the end season summary, so this isn't the game designers decision, it's clearly the bean counters who make the call here.

I still like to mention this when I can, and when it's topical, in the vain hope that someone in power realizes that it's costing them long term players.

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

On 12/29/2016 at 8:47 PM, Noamuth said:

That's only a contradiction if it were the only two options.  The majority of the player base wants to get the research done right meow! while DE seems to be forcing them into slowing down and farming for the resource and setting a long term, team oriented, goal.

Many players feel they're being forced into a style that DE has actively discouraged via nerfs and changes, but it's not their only option. 

This made me think, and no, it's not about impatience(yet again) the problem is, hema, fully requires grinding, there is no normal way that will get you the resources.

When I was a noob, and lacked nano spores for a ton of things, I did not farm, or buy boosters, I simply started playing eris a lot in general.
When I lacked about 40.000 polymer bundle for various stuff, I just played on uranus venus and mercury a lot, no farming, no booster.
When my friends had a MR-climbing contest, I lacked about 200 neurodes, I did NOT farm them, or buy boosters, I simply biased my play locations to earth or eris.
I did my clans oxium related research mostly by myself, I did not farm, or buy boosters, I just googled what planet oxium is dropping most, and biased my play to that area.

Hema, is different, mutagen sample, only drops in two very boring endless missions, and this needs it in amounts that really requires boosters if you have any life.
Mutagen sample does NOT drop in sufficient amounts in the non-boring missions in the derelict, and the derelict has no alerts, or void missions, or anything of the sort.
There is NO "normal play" way to get that pile of mutagen samples, even if I hated my RL friends in my clan enough to force them to farm, which I don't, hema would still require everyone to have both boosters to happen in a realistic time frame.

For the first time, there is no possible way to get around this by simply playing the game, I have 1440 hours played, in missions, just this year, and I have 1572 mutagen samples to show for it.

Everything else, has been possible by just being patient, or playing the actual game, just in certain areas more than others.
Using that method this time, I will have hema some time by 2020.

Hema:
Mindless Farming: 100% required, in missions I normally have no desire or reason to ever visit.
Boosters: only optional if you don't value your sanity.

Can you spot the difference here?

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

10 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

They'll just move it back to this thread, maybe temporarily lock this thread again. You won't get warning points or anything, they'll just keep ignoring you and anyone who agrees with you. DE are not interested in talking about this. They're done.

I'm a big cynic, and I'm still quite sure they are just on vacation right now, it's not that they are ignoring this post specifically, they are just not logging in at all.

I expect a response january 2nd or 3rd, and not sooner.

Even If they had noticed this, If I was working at DE, I would NOT want to stop being on holiday and respond to a threadnaught like this, I would go *nope nope nope, busy with family, I didnt see anything*

There is no way I would deal with this mess without pay.. ESPECIALLY not when the people that would need to actually fix the issue, are also on holiday.. so anyone coming here would be coming WITHOUT any solution or helpful advice.. or knowledge of what their coworkers think.

 

So, Everyone: just be patient, and prepare your arguments for DE when they do show back up for work, it would take a true saint to deal with forum drama on their day off.

 

And to DE: thanks for working way up untill december 23rd, to make sure we got a content expansion as an xmas present, I know it would have been MUCH easier to take a break earlier and just let it be done whenever... there's just a few tiny problems like a certain weapon's research cost might not be realistic.

The rest of the patch is quite epic, and sadly overshadowed by this mess.

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

On 12/24/2016 at 6:04 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

The only way people justify the vitriol is by using a slippery slope of the entire game requiring similar resources because of this weapon.

If you look at the fact that it's just ONE exclusive weapon, these 70+ page looks silly and entitled.

Of course it's the slippery slope I'm worried about, I looked at the stats of this weapon, and like so many "unique" weapons, this one just.. dosn't have the stats to be good.. it's mastery fodder.

The problem is I have seen this game balance formula before.. it's all over in asian MMO's, all very charming, untill you realize they are grindyer than a real life job.

Add to this the factor that just this year, DE was taken over by a chinese company.

I see this as first and foremost, a test, of how ready the playerbase is for a conversion into that type of game, and I'm posting here, to tell DE, I'm a very obsessive player, I spend enough on warframe that I really don't want to actually count it up, and I for one, am NOT willing to play any game that follows the infamous "asian formula"

This weapon's mutagen requirements are insane, for any other reason than to test how many give in, and buy it with plat instead.

[Titan extractor prime, blueprint or item?]

Thanks, I find it better to be sure on things like this :)

[Titan extractor prime, blueprint or item?]

I have been wondering about the prime vault, and I notice that one of the things in the package is titan extractor prime, but, looking back on the old prime access deals, embers prime access was "Titan extractor prime (reusable blueprint)"

So, does that mean this vault only has a single built extractor?

Or did they just not feel that the (reusable blueprint) needed saying?

Because one of those would be a lot more useful than the other, upgrading ALL my extractors to prime ones would be awesome.. just a single one would trigger my OCD quite bad..

[The Glast Gambit: Hotfix 19.5.3]

6 hours ago, PhoeniixFiire said:

I actually just got my first Meso S3 yesterday just doing a Meso fissure. Still, they don't seem to be dropping from the syndicate packs at all.

I can verify this, I turned about 3300 base marks, and 600 intermediate marks, into relic packs last week, due to ember prime vault.

They were all distributed evenly(per tier, obviously I got more Lith than Axi), EXCEPT Meso S3

I got 0x meso S3 from that mountain of relic packs, only know it exists due to my love of spy missions :D

Kind of annoying, but at least it's not related to the vault, so no panic

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

This mess, to me, represents a transition to one of those asian pay2win mmo's, where the grind is intentionally only possible for people with no lives.

In "totally unrelated" news, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyou DE is owned by a chinese company, takeover completed just this year.

 

Also, the line "We appreciate your feedback and criticism but we have no intentions of changing things" is really quite insulting.. if you already decided to ignore feedback, then by definition you DON'T appreciate it.

 

EDIT: someone quoted me saying this statement(about de not actually wanting feedback) was wrong, I have revised it, and.. Fixed punctuation.

Thanks for that, punctuation was atrocious.

Btw I'm talking about the definition of appreciation, I'm not redefining feedback, if you read it that way.

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

37 minutes ago, Tyrian3k said:

They are free to play, but pay to accomplish anything.

But honestly, DE seems to just look at excess resources that people have and introduce something that costs tons of said resource. Sibear for example is a consequence of excessive R5-Core-farming of players maxing out R10 mods on excavations.

Here's an idea someone mentioned somewhere, I forget who or where.

DE:

Make a community goal/event to rebuild some of the destroyed relays.

Make the resource requirements astronomical, to drain those resource stockpiles into something.

The material cost can be as insane as you want, as we don't actually NEED the relay's back, we WANT them, out of pride.

And voila, here's a goal, that would reduce the insane stockpile of veteran's resources, without making anyone feel like they are being taken advantage of, or forced to grind for days for ONE silly weapon.

[[Devstream #85 included - Costs are not changing] Ghost Clan needs 5000 Mutagen samples to research Hema... 500000 Mutagen samples for a Moon clan]

1 hour ago, That_Beast said:

Some people don't like being in active clans, they'd prefer control over what they have to deal with in dojos/emblems and some people rather small tight knit groups with friends, you can't force the player to do something they don't wish to do. The argument of "oh go join an active clan and quit complaining" is just a bull**** band-aid way to attempt to fix a problem. If we want change we have to B**ch about it, just cause YOUR experience was different from the majority doesn't mean anything.

I'm on the same boat, I tried to be in several very active clans, and pretty much hated it.

Then when I mentioned it to my friends, they had the same problem, so, easy fix, we founded our own clan, everything went swimmingly, we had access to clan content without having to deal with ... "annoying people" 

Two high MR players, me and one other, took care of all the clan research stuff, then the other high MR player quit playing about 6 weeks ago, something about a "CS season"?.. I don't play CS so.. ?

But the end result is, I'm the only member left with the ability to grind high level stuff like eris/derelict efficiently, so, in effect, for my clan to get this weapon, I would need to get all 5000 mutagen samples myself... or dump all my RL friends I enjoy playing with, and start playing with strangers again, just for efficiency of one weapon, which honestly, dosn't actually look good, just, "unique"..

It looks a LOT faster to just grind the plat to gift every single member that weapon.

AND a lot less monotonous...

 

EDIT: come to think of it, grinding 500 mutagen sample per person... or grinding 225 plat per person, am I the only one that would rather grind the plat?

regardless of active group size, that just seems so much easyer..