Madotsuki
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Posts posted by Madotsuki
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In any game it's common and in fact it's the right thing to do that some enemies will target specificly your strong points. It is up to you not to let it happen because these enemies are far from invencible. Sorry if this doesn't coups up with your narrow minded view of the game. Also in case you haven't noticed, the principal way to deal with these kinds of enemies is to actually stay mobile rather than being behind cover which again, fits in the way the game is meant to be played. If you stay in cover and try to take these enemies down, not only it's likelly it will fail, but it will drag you out of cover and severely hamper your abillity to move, that's the penalty you have for not doing things right... But again, that just doesn't coups with your narrow minded view.
Oh because i'm not agreeing with you, I'M the one that's narrow minded. Have you even read the other posts in this topic? Rollers do not make you move more! If anything, the only thing they do is keep you IN COVER more so you won't be stunlocked out in the open! But clearly talking to you is pointless, since I'M the one that's narrow-minded for thinking that a game based on fast movement should not have so many stunning mechanics that take the movement away from the player and breaks the pace of the game. I'M the crying baby for thinking that Rollers can be improved, that new units can be introduced, that AI can be spiced up. I'M the useless noob that should STFU because I don't think the game should stay exactly the way it is right now and that nothing should ever be changed.
I'm just going to let the devs read this post and decide on their own. I'd love to hear more feedback from other people but I'm done talking to you in particular. You can go back to running away from rollie balls, I'm gonna go play some Devil May Cry.
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I'm sorry i didn't read through your entire post this time but what i did read is that you adore stunlocking in this game because the ability to move fast is the selling point of this game, and thus you want things that take it away from the player.
One of the major points of Warframe is fast movement. Wall runs, crazy flips, fast sprints, sliding. That's why it's a game about Space Ninjas, not thick armored space marines that lumber around from cover to cover to poke their heads out and play whack a mole. You however, demand that movement be taken away from players, in a game where movement defines the combat, in the name of "challenge". Do you see the problem here? Taking movement away from players in a game which has fast movement as a selling point? That's like if a cover-based shooter had a mechanic which sends a missile strike down on you every time you stop moving. And it doesn't take "being an idiot" to be stunlocked. All it takes is bad luck and trying to use your melee weapons. You have no idea what Warframe is even about, do you? I think you may have picked up the wrong game if you think Warframe needs more mechanics that take movement away.
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Aside from being able to block and stagger melee enemies, more importantly i should be allowed to backpedal while blocking. Right now i can't even try to block some bullets while backpedaling to cover because the game makes you turn completely around! Just let us block in the direction the camera is facing, please!
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Stalker? What Stalker? I don't see any Stalkers in that picture. Have you been eating those Infested shrooms again?
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Everything i had to say was said by MJ12. Thanks mate, exactly what i had in mind. Also, loving that idea, Exhack. Maybe if the batting method was implemented, you could use the environment to your advantage as well. Slamming a Roller into a wall will do damage to it, and slaming the ball into other enemies deal damage to those enemies (not the roller itself)! Now THAT is fun and challenging!
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I want Rollers to stay just the way they are.
They are an enemy that mixes up combat against Grineer which, without Rollers, boils down to "sit behind a wall, get free headshots."
1.) Your first suggestion about being able to block Rollers, knock them away and stun them makes Rollers utterly trivial. Not only do you avoid every type of damage or function they provide for Grineer by simply facing in their general direction and holding down a button, but you suggest that it stun them as well, essentially giving you a free kill as Rollers do not have a ludicrous amount of health and go down in a few simple shots. There's more strategy involved in fighting simple power fist Grineer than there is fighting Rollers, if this was implemented.
Right now, strategy against Rollers is either find a place to avoid their damage, or just get better at aiming. By themselves, Rollers aren't that big a problem, however their purpose is to be mixed in with other Grineer enemies, greatly increasing the strain and challenge on players by adding in new elements into an engagement. You can't sit on top of a box if a group of Lancers are in view. You shoot the Roller or avoid the Roller and kill the less-mobile Grineer. Changing Rollers to be completely and utterly negated while you're safe behind cover defeats the purpose of the Roller.
2.) While your idea is novel enough, it boils down to this; what you are asking for is for Rollers to attack less, and to stand still and be vulnerable for an entire 2 seconds (a direct conflict to their low health/high speed nature). This just screams of asking Rollers to be brought down to an enemy that is easily dealt with in the same manner as Grineer. Rollers are supposed to be simple in their attacks; they are just ball-shaped robots, they shouldn't have any sense self-preservation or notion that they are valuable. They are just as disposable as Moa walkers, which shows in their AI behavior of walking towards players until they are able to shoot. You may think of it as simple and rudimentry, but I see it as following true to their robotic nature; no self-preservation, no worries for their own life, while human enemies will frequently run to hide from you.
Your suggestions are basically gutting the Rollers to a state where they are much, much easier to deal with, and I don't think that's what Rollers need. What they need, is to be left alone and do their job; they are meant to be an annoying enemy that serves to mix up gameplay against Grineer faction, and they accomplish that role beautifully. Their ability to stun is meant to be a punishment for being hit. Don't want to get stunned? Get better at the game, employ better tactics.
So what you are saying is, Rollers are perfect despite the amount of people who want them tweaked or even outright removed, and everyone should just play your way or get stunlocked to oblivion.
My ideas use less strategy than a Powerfist? THERE IS NO STRATEGY TO POWERFISTS, IN THE SAME WAY THERE IS NO STRATEGY TO FIGHTING ROLLERS CURRENTLY! You just point a rifle at it and hold down the button! Think about that! Why not implement a tactic that's something new and unique to the enemy instead of just "aim better"?? What if I have a Paris, hmm? Should I be auto-screwed for having a Paris on a Grineer mission? Sure, maybe the block shouldn't do direct damage to it and will simply knock it away for a short disabling so you can shoot it down, but that's not easy when you have a dozen other grineers and other rollers beating down on you at the same time! It would just provide a breather, so that you can deal with it a little latter! Hell, if the idea was implemented, why not buff Roller health a little and/or give it high rechargeable personal shields that go down when it's stunned by a block, but can still be taken down with sheer firepower if you're a good shot? Space Ninjas ought to be a creative bunch! Surely they could come up with a strategy other than just "SPRAY BULLETS AT THE CIRCLE THINGS"? And the second idea is mostly based on having a group of Rollers at once instead of 1 anyway. Oh and you didn't read the part about how when it's revving up it's invincible, so you can only either hit it while it's zigzagging all over the place or during the one second when it stops after an attack, did you?
Right now, I've mentioned this a billion times, the so called "better tactics" involve hiding on top of boxes (if rollers are alone), running away like a pansy so you can isolate them (if other grineer are present), or throwing an ult. These are the most generic and boring "tactics" ever. Want more variety? Want to spice up the faction? Suggest some new units! Heavy Grenadiers, BL2 Badass Nomad-esque Heavy Shielded Smashers, Ballistas with JETPACKS! Suggest better AI! Smarter grenade throwing, better flanking, better unit combos! Don't just sit there and say "DUR EVERYTHING'S FINE YOU JUST NEED TO LRN2PLAY, NOOOOOBS"! I mean, come on, little balls that do nothing except roll around and stunlock players, in a faction that's based on human infantry? DE can do better than that!
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Do not try to measure the box — that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth: there is no box.
MY WHOLE LIFE WAS A LIE
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If they couldn't stun in mid air I would be much happier with them in a mission. As it stands I do the ONE move I have to handle groups of enemies rushing at me when I am out of energy e.g. jump slam, and guess waht? They stun you out if it making the hard counter for them useless. @Madotsuki I love the idea of a Grenadiers but have suggested it to Elhazzared before and her reply was basically "Only stunlocks are valid challenges no matter how you improve the AI/Add new units". Having a unit that can flush you out of cover without being cheap and stunlocking you would be ideal. And while they are at it they can improve general grineer AI: eg making ballistas use cover better/have better mobility to get to sniping positions and whatnot.
The one thing that is really a problem with them is the fact that they will stun you in midair, without the need to even hit you.
You should be able to actually evade them by not getting hit, this currently does not work.
(This is an angry post, just coming back from a solo run where I died at the very end to a single damn roller and some grunts. Spent all 4 revives, just to find myself immediately stunlocked by that stupid thing again, unable to make any move.)
Edit: What's up with this editor, everything I type just comes out as one huge wall-of-text...
Actually, I think Rollers jump up right before they hit you. At least, they used to. That would at least explain why they can mid-air stagger you. Doesn't make it any less cheap though.
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Okay Elhazzard, tell me something. Why do you love stunlocking? Why do you enjoy having your control taken away from you, and be unable to move your character? How could not allowing the player to play the bloody game be a good design? I played through Borderlands 2 on solo (including most of TVHM), and not a single one of the enemies can stagger me in any way, or stop me from doing anything, yet the enemy variety was endless. Even the most annoying enemy, the Wormhole Thresher, which can suck you into its proximity and continuously damage you with its body spikes until you're dead and you can't outrun the suction, still allows you to attempt to beat the snot out of it up close in a DPS battle so that you at least have a chance to bust out. No matter what happened, you could do something about it. Yet when it comes to the sheer ton of staggers and knockdowns in Warframe, you can't. You can't roll out of it, you can't perform a quick recovery, there's barely any invuln timer, you can only watch as your character stumbles all over the place, gets knocked flat on his &#!, none of your input does anything and then you die. I have no idea why anyone would enjoy stunlock, and quite frankly I'm not interested, because clearly, only an extreme minority actually likes stunlocking.
Also, there's a distinct difference between my proposed Grenadiers and common grenades. Common grenades stick to the first surface they touch and immediately explode. Due to idiotic AI, the current troops don't take into account props and cover and will blindly throw their grenade at an arc aimed at the player's feet wherever he is, thus leading to the grenade sticking to the front side of the box and detonating, and leaving the player on the back side of the box safe. With an increase in AI, that can be easily fixed. But the Grenadier, doesn't shoot these sticky grenades. It shoots pipebombs, which can bounce off walls or roll slightly on the ground. And Troopers only throw one or two grenades occasionally. I related to the Grenadier to the TF2 Demoman, because i expect him to be able to unload at least 4 pipebombs before needing a reload, at 1 bomb a second. With each bomb dealing a base 150 damage up close and increases with enemy level, hiding in cover while a Grenadier is launching at you is suicide. Again, with the PROPER AI which takes into account props and doesn't just blindly aim at your feet wherever the hell you are, both pipebombs and grenades can be effective tools to flush you out of cover. Want to add more strategy? Improve AI! Add new enemies to fill holes! Enemies who do not rely on cheap stuns! Rollers are not the only option! BE CREATIVE!
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Well, what you are asking for is something easier. Your sugestion means that the roller will hit you a lot less often and that will mean that they become a lot easier to deal with. So what you want is an easier dificulty, whether or not it would make them look cooler.
Devs play games, most of them grew playing games too but now that they are Devs they spend a good part o their day developing these games... You know, working and all? You can't expect a Dev who spends a lot of his time working and more often than not he's not just working 8 hours a days, to just be as good as players who have hours and hours to burn into games.
Yes, warframe doesn't needs to become a hardcore game, why do you think I pressed against giving bonus for acrobacies in this game? It's not a hardcore score attack game after all. But the game isn't suppose to be so easy as to barely provide any challenge... I am no hardcore gamer myself and I can't even play half as good as one and still the game fails to provide a challenge for me, heck the most it manages to do is actually make me run out of ammo at times and that's only because I use weapons which tend to burn through ammo fast... as for new players... Well, I never felt any kind of dificulty at all since I started playing and I did start playing in U7. Obviously things are not supposed to be hard at the start, they are supposed to increase in dificulty gradually but this game just keeps it as easy as in the beggining.
Again Rollers are not boring, they are there to force you out of hidding and to be anuisance too yes. While they are not hard to deal with they add more dificulty to the game whether or not you acknowledge it. If you can just hide as much as you want to recover shields and reload and do whatever you want then nothing will ever provide you challenge, Roller give you the challenge by being a pain in the &#! that won't let you do anything until you deal with them, not to mention they will force you out of cover. This is well done. Again your sugestion is. Make them circle arround and only attack every once in while. Well, they would surelly become really good then. Want to reload? Go ahead! Want to stay behind the cover all the time? No problem. So what would they do then? Nothing is the answer! And don't come saying they could make them do more damage, what the rollers do is what every other faction has, stagger and keep on staggering. Infested pretty much has stagger on most units but it barelly has range so it's balanced in that respect. Corpus have railgun moas. Yes they don't come at you but they continually shoot at you and stagger you, time and time again. roller rolls at you and stagger you time and time again. Perfect balance... Yes in the 3 cases you deal with it differently but you pretty much deal differently with the 3 factions to beggin with.
So, your argument is that Roller's role is to flush people out of cover. Guess what, we don't NEED Rollers for that.
GRENADIERS. Yes, Heavy Grenadiers. Why not introduce a WHOLE NEW unit? He could be like the demoman from TF2, shoots pipebombs that arc over cover or bounce off walls. Combined with AI aimbot, it's the perfect way to flush people out of cover without having to resort to little balls rolling around staggering people and making them hide on boxes. Trying to hide behind a box to recover your shields, and suddenly pipebombs fly over the box and lands right in front of you, and you run the hell out of cover to dodge the explosion. That is so much better that Rollers! Give Rollers more of a role as a disruptive support unit, that messes up your aim when you're trying to shoot and just generally harasses the player. Plus, this is a game about Space Ninjas. Rule of Cool ought to be considered. And of the two suggestions i gave, the first does not even involve a decrease in Roller attack rate, and simply gives you the ability to retaliate with blocking. The second one was to make Rollers more of a "strategic" enemy to deal with, with the whole counter-attack thing, and works well if Rollers came in a small horde.
And staggering/knockdowns/anything that takes control away from the player often should be minimised, not introduced everywhere! The Infested at least has the excuse that they are melee-based, and even then there should be an "invuln" period after being stunned once to prevent long stunlocks if surrounded. Railgun Moas are large targets that can easily be shot down when you see one, rarely appear at more than 2 at a time, stands still to shoot and makes an identifiable sound and animation before they fire which gives you time to roll away. Rollers are small, relatively quiet, move around all the time, can come in massive amounts (especially in Kela's bossfight) and in a way doesn't even fit in with the people-based Grineer faction, even though as i said before i guess it adds a certain amount of variety.
Why can't you just think outside of the box for a little instead of wanting to keep everything the same as it currently is? It's a beta, why not suggest new content while patching existing content too?
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What would be the point?
The point of the inventory/frame slots is to make DE some money. A foundry limit would only affect one thing: the time it takes to craft a warframe...which would be 12 hours longer if I wanted to craft everything at once instead of as I found the BPs. As I see it limiting the maximum number of things you could craft at once wouldn't affect anyone and I really dont see anyone ever upgrading it.The point is instead of actually restricting something that is really crucial like weapon/warframe slots, this would instead make people pay for convenience, just like with the current purchase of potatoes/warframes/weapons etc.
Of course, i don't really see this working. Even if people bought these foundry slots, i doubt anyone would buy more than 2 even if you only start with 1.
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Yep for sure ^^, i think Pluto is doable from devs too eheh, was so easy, i can remember the boss, it just selfkilled on my Trinity Link and with the fire of other mates lasted like 30s, as last boss is the easiest one i found in my videogames career, generically speaking; i was wondering today what mob levels change in mob stats, for sure not shield and armor (for example my LEX can do 1180 damage in every stage of the game), prolly just more life ^^.
So i think there is the room for a little improvement in difficulty, personally speaking i am not an ubergeek, just normally good in gaming and in this game from 2 weeks ^^.
I think their armor does increase. One time i stupidly tried to do a Pluto alert defense mission. My strun was barely even scratching a Grineer Lancer, the damage numbers were pathetic compared to the ones i get from, like say a Saturn Lancer. Also, i'm pretty sure enemy damage also increases. And there's their health/shields, duh.
And yeah, I must admit after watching a video of Ambulas it is quite pathetic as a final boss. I mean, come on, a little MOA? Even the Jackal was more majestic than that. Ambulas' "spartan kicks" are kinda hilarious though.
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In any game Dev shouldn't be able to beat their own content and that's because players are bound to be a whole lot better than Devs, everyone knows this.
Now if you told me that you wanted there to be a normal mode and a casual mode, I don't think that it should be a focus, but I wouldn't really care if the Devs made some content that can be beaten even more easly!
In Warframes the Devs can litereally beat anything that crosses their path without so much as blinking. Do you see this as a standard for dificulty?
Go see other games that are made or being made, go watch interviews. Most cases Devs says, we can't beat this and that but they know the players will and that's because players will learn how to join up together and do things, not to mention that players spends a lot of time playing the game, the Devs spend a lot of time making it. Just because you know the mechanics of a game you build it doesn't means that you are good enough to beat it. Devs are far from being hardcore gamers and that's why they shouldn't be able to beat their own content.
Now I'm not a hardcore gamer myself, but even I can feel how easy it is. If I want to actually have some dificulty in the game, I have to handycap myself by making my warframe weaker or by playing with a weaker warframe.
Oh so the normal difficulty has to be the CASUAL mode, and the hard difficulty should be standard. What is this, I Wanna Be The Guy? Should they add a fake "easy" difficulty too that when clicked will shut down the game and open the Barbie homepage?
And this is a very curious fact i find with game devs. From what I see, they barely even play games, including their own! Personally I aspire to be a game dev one day. Why? Because I played a lot of games, and thus has a lot of ideas! I am a gamer, and thus gained interest in making my own game! It's just strange to me that devs would be "bad" at gaming despite MAKING games. And the Warframe devs really don't need to be "hardcore" gamers to beat their own game, because Warframe is not supposed to BE a "hardcore" game! Where is it advertised that Warframe is HARDCORE??!! If you want hardcore difficulty, ask them to add a hardcore difficulty as an OPTION, then everyone's happy, i'm fine with that! You complain about needing to handicap yourself to have a challenge, well what about the new players? New players who don't have over-modded Gorgons and Heks, and 800+ shields and health? Want difficulty? ASK FOR NEW CONTENT! Surely a new planet where enemies are level 50-100 will satisfy you? Why should the less elite players suffer in a non-hardcore game because some players are either ultra pro or has maxed everything?
And Rollers aren't even about being hardcore or not! They're just BORING! Let me clarify right now, I've never even died to Rollers, directly or indirectly, before. They have almost always only amounted to a nuisance during my encounters, I'm not complaining about them being overtly difficult. But they're just so BORING! It's a ball that keeps rolling into you and taking away your control repeatedly, and that's all there is to it! And how do you deal with it? You don't roll out of the way, you don't jump over them, you don't wait for an opportunity, you just run away while spraying in its general direction/jump on the nearest box/auto-kill with ult! I will never understand anyone who considers Rollers as it currently is FUN! I didn't even ask for a nerf, I just asked for an AI change to make them more INTERESTING! It doesn't make them easier! WHAT'S SO WRONG ABOUT THAT!
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Maybe make them more like toxic so proximity to them will rapidly drain your energy/sheilds, melee atacks will cause knockdown and the HUD messup?
Huh, that's an idea i've never heard or thought of before. Interesting!
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Well Diablo 3 devs for example did not manage to finish their game at last difficulties but they released it by saying: we are not able to finish it and our inside testers (hardcore gamers) too but we think that our player will be able to do this; who played Diablo 3 know the end :P.
I'm assuming you mean the Hell and Inferno difficulties for Diablo 3. And that's what I mean, it's okay if the devs can't beat the Hard and above difficulties, but at the very least they should be beating Normal difficulty. In terms of Warframe, I won't be surprised if the devs can't beat Pluto difficulty. But if they can't beat Europa/Sedna, there's a problem.
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The Devs themselfs agree that the content is to easy and in fact do you know how to easly judge a game being easy or not? If a Dev can beat it, the game is easy. Trust me, there is no easier measure of how easy a game is.
I stopped taking you seriously by this point. Oh, so if the CREATOR OF THE GAME can beat the game, the game is too easy. WOW. SUCH LOGIC. If the devs, who made the game and thus should know the game inside-out, can't even beat the game themselves, then how are they to know the general public can beat it? The only thing i expect a dev to be unable to beat in their own game is the ultra-elite-hardcore-hell difficulty modes.
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Personally as stated above the rollers are a great enemy to break up montony in the grineer levels. Though annoying at times that is the point of there existance. What i think would be a cool tweak would be to make them more versatile. If possible it would be cool if the rollers could go along the walls and ceiling like a tenno would. In this case making wall running ineffective against them(Which i have done multiple times to get away from the buggers) In addition to the stun it should knock the character off the wall. Not only would it make the rollers more challenging, but also more technologically advanced instead of just rolling a line, hitting you and then turning around to do it again
And that removes an interesting tactic against Rollers. Why would you want to make wall running ineffective? It's a much more challenging strategy than sitting on a box at least.
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Against my better judgement, I’m going to write this…
So after reading this post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/29811-why-rollers-are-ruining-the-game-at-least-for-me/ , or more correctly the replies to it, I originally wanted to just post this as a reply, but then I realized what a wall of text I’ve written and decided to just start a new topic. Yes, this topic is going to be about ROLLERS. I’m also putting in a bit of a rant at the end, just to get this off my chest. If you’re one of those who find Rollers the best thing ever since sliced bread and that I am an idiot for not adoring them, feel free to immediately stop reading and go flame me in the replies, but if you don’t feel that way, read on.
First off, actual feedback. I am NOT requesting a removal of Rollers, or nerfing their stats into oblivion. Yes, I admit, the Rollers do add something special to the Grineers. They manage to break the monotony of the human-based faction, where almost every single unit just fires a different kind of gun, and the one-size-fits-all strategy is to blast them in the head. And dealing with 2 or 3 Rollers at the same time is okay at least in my experience, it can be fun having to roll around to dodge the Rollers, and wait for the perfect chance to take one down. However, does it mean that it is perfect and should never be tweaked? NO.
Particularly in solo, having any more than 3 at a time essentially screws you over. They stagger you on touch, interrupting reloads and any other action, can even stumble you mid-jump so you can’t use the melee ground slam, repeatedly takes control away from the player, all while the other Grineer casually spray you full of bullets. Kiting one gets you stumbled by the other balls coming from different directions. You’re not going to have 100 energy to use your AoE ult every time unless you never spend any energy, or your frame might not even HAVE an AoE ult. It almost forces you to run like a pansy to the nearest box so you can hide on top of it like a granny hiding from a mouse. How is that challenging at all?
So, how can this be changed? I have a few suggestions for Roller tweaks, that both add to the challenge and also removes some frustrating features. These suggestions are not easy to implement, but it would go great lengths (at least IMO) to change Rollers from annoying spheres to be avoided, into interesting enemies to be looked forward to.
1. As I’ve mentioned before, use them as an opportunity to give blocking a bit more purpose. If a player blocks when a Roller hits them (player has to be facing the Roller), he performs a batting animation that sends the Roller flying a good distance, temporarily disabling the Roller when it lands back on the ground, and deals significant damage. I don’t want it to require a “precision timed” block to perform this as it could be extremely problematic when combined with lag. Requiring the player to be facing the Roller should be enough.
2. A harder to implement idea. Change the Roller’s AI so that instead of continuously charging the player at every opportunity, Rollers will attempt to zig zag and circle the player, going in and out of cover, staying a short distance away and making it harder to hit them. Every once in awhile, when it has line of sight to the player, it will stop and start revving up, spinning rapidly on the spot (it is invulnerable in this stage), with sparks flying off the ground around it. After 2 seconds of spinning, it charges in a straight line at the player at double the normal speed, doing medium-high damage and making the victim stumble. If it hits a wall/box, it also creates a short-range shockwave that knocks down players around it (half the Heavy stomp range). After the charge, it’ll be vulnerable again and can’t move for a second before starting to accelerate back to the circling phase. Imagine 4-5 Rollers circling around you like hungry wolves, preparing to strike. That would be fun to fight.
These are my current suggestions for Roller tweaking. Hopefully the devs will take a look and give it a little consideration. And now, for the rant. This is mostly aimed at certain individuals, but also at all of the “this game is too easy, buff everything” crowd. Feel free to skip this if you’re a dev and has better things to be doing, or are just not in the mood to read rantings.
So, why did you people get interested in this game in the first place? When you look at the Open Beta Trailer,
,What kind of game do you think it shows?
At least, when I look at the trailer, I see a game about action. I see an exciting game about fast-paced slash-and-shooting, smooth parkour, epic ability combos. A semi-casual shooter mixed with a spectacle fighter, that lets you kick &#! but still makes you earn your victory with skill and fast thinking. At no point was the game advertised as “HARDCORE”, nor was it advertised to be the next Dark Souls or NetHack. Yet when I look on the forums, I see people who demand more cover-taking (the enemy damage and RoF buffs), who applaud stunlocks in the name of “challenge” (nervos), who think standing on boxes to hide from enemies is what defines Space Ninjas (Infested and Rollers), who think making a single mistake should absolutely lead to instant death. People who demand everyone to be forced to take it slow, for all existing content’s difficulty level to be raised to 11 and kept that way, instead of asking for the addition of extra harder content to provide more choice. Do you even know what game this is supposed to be?
And as for all the arguments defending Rollers as brilliant enemies. So far, the 3 “official strategies” given for fighting Rollers are: 1. Kiting 2. Get on a box 3. Ult. Tell me, how is running away while spraying bullets behind you challenging? How does standing on a box require skill in any way? How is throwing an AoE ult a creative strategy? And how is a mob with these as “official strategies” a good design?
And this doesn’t only apply to Rollers. There are other enemies that could use a good tweak, and yet those who point out their discontent are often declared whiners, noobs, babies who want to breeze through everything by a vocal minority, just because these enemies can be “dealt with” by melee stunlocks, the most powerful weapons (Hek), specific loadouts or box-perching.
Am I a crying baby for wanting an enemy that has a more varied attack pattern? Am I some kind of noob that should go lrn2play for not liking an enemy based entirely on taking control away from the player repeatedly while being hard to hit? I dunno. All I know is that perfection does not exist, and that there is always room for improvement in anything and everything; that one man’s “strategy” can be another man’s “exploit”, and that as it stands, to me and a significant portion of other players, the Rollers are not fun or genuinely challenging in any way currently, and that at least in my opinion, the game would benefit from some alterations to these mobs behavior.
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Stunlocking is one of the most serious problems in the game. Although the devs mentioned introducing a mod to reduce the stunned time, i think a complete rework of the player knocked-down/stunned mechanics would be much better, particularly allowing players to roll out of a stagger or perform a quick flip-recovery from knockdown like the MOAs do at the expense of stamina.
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Read the wiki page for him, I wrote a detailed solo guide to deal with him there. However, I wrote it back before open beta (before mod 2.0), so some things are a little wonky :/ Still good though.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Councilor_Vay_Hek
Personally i have no problems killing him anymore, especially with my rediculously modded Gorgon.
(edit: "updated" solo strategy)
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Rollers aren't that bad in small numbers. Sure they are the biggest offenders of the stun-lock problem in this game, but in groups of up to 3, they're still manageable. But more than that? Welp, may as well go get a drink, cause i'm not gonna be able to get out of that stun anyway. I wouldn't say the Rollers need to be outright removed, they do add some variety to Grineer missions, but tweaking is definately necessary to reduce frustration. However, their speed and damage should not be directly nerfed, otherwise it defeats their purpose.
Possible ideas:
1. Rollers will damage themselves as well on hitting you. I mean, they ARE charging into you with their own bodies. Have them also take one-third of their health damage (rounded up) every time they hit you, and explodes on the third hit for increased damage if you don't kill them before that.
2. No staggering on hit, just screwing up your accuracy a bit and maybe nudge you without making you lose control. Come on, they're hand-sized BALLS. Why are they so damaging.
3. Put a limit on how many Rollers can be on the field at a given time. On normal missions, maximum can be 2+n for n players, and for Kela it can be 2n for n players.
4. Using block on a Roller will result in a "batting" animation, sending the Roller flying back a good distance, temporarily disable its movement, and deal significant damage to it.
And seriously guys, stop saying standing on a box is a legit strategy. It's an exploit, and if an enemy makes people do that so often it's bad design. Also, running backwards away from it is simple kiting. It's nowhere near as interesting as something like batting it away with your melee block.
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A photo contest about enemies would be great for me XD (Check the wiki's Enemies page and you'll see why. Guess who 0332288 is~)
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I agree with this. The Gameplay Feedback forum is way too general, and often are too much of a fustercluck for anyone to notice an actual suggestion thread about enemy variety and behaviour, at least concerning enemies that are not "controversial". I've seen many great threads suggesting new enemies or tweaks to existing ones that are just buried by "rant" posts about rushing, plat, pay2win, trading, pvp etc. I would greatly welcome a forum specifically for Enemy feedback.
Block This Or Not: The State Of Blocking In Warframe
in General
Posted
It'd be better if blocking can just parry melee hits. Lighter weapons can only block lighter melee (batons, saws, regular Infested) and heavier weapons can block both heavy and light melee (Ancient hits, Powerfist etc.). A well-timed block will stagger the attacker, negate all damage/effects and leave the player unaffected. A not-so-well-timed block will reduce damage from the hit and knock the player backwards, without knocking down/staggering though. Also, blocking shouldn't do anything against poison. It comes from the gas, not the actual melee hit from the Ancient, strangely.