[Warframe: Anything reasonable left?]

Playing Warframe lately seems to me, that it leeds to more frustrations and disappointments than anything else. There's not much left in the game, to encourage being active in the game and there's not much left to encourage going to the forums either. The game have too many problems and the developers are too inactive in the forums in general.

I'm going to start out with the relics and the problems I see in there. First and biggest problem is the enoumus grind to actually getting that rare reward, the grind of getting 100 void traces, when you have 6-40 drop from opening another relic, I do realize farming for 1 relic gives you other relics, but that's a point I'll get to later in this thread. Doing the math with the middle of the road to account for RNG, assuming 23 void traces per relic, then you have to open 5 other relics to get enough traces, imagine those days (most days) RNG just isn't in your favour and you get less than 15 for all your relics, that is just an unreasonable amount of grind, for only 10% chance at the rare drop. And this is the grind from 1 person, then you still need the 3 other people to go through the same thing, instead of being able to work together and shorten the time considerably and share a relic, like the old void keys. The next problem with relics is, when you've gone through the grind of making it radiant, improving your chances, you're still left with 50% chance of getting a common item! That is just not reasonable, if you go through grind to improve your chances, then the bare minimum reward should at least be more ducats in the shape of the uncommon item! It is never reasonable to NOT reward work and that is exactly what a common drop from a radiant relic does. The next problem in the current system is, that if you want a specific relic, lets say the currently unvaulted Rhino and Mag relics, then you're stuck doing the same mission 100+ times for 10 relics, which you then have to go and make radiant (previous point repeated), and then you're only a quater of the way through. Some of us actually do have limited play time and cannot spend 7 days just grinding away in a game, then in the end don't even reward that grind very well. Relics needs a more reliable way of dropping specific relics, for example spread the relics out in specific missions and let us know where to get them, obviously with a reasonable drop chance. I am aware that during this unvaulted period it'll be the same 4 missions on repeat, but the rest of the time, we will have to play all missions, instead of just interception/Hieracon on repeat for neo/axi, IO/Helene for Meso and ODD for Lith. DE wanted us to spend the majority of our time all over the solar system, but grinding for primes, we spend the majority of our time in those 4 missions and in my opinion, it has NOT given any variation at all. Even worse is, those endless missions is far too happy to give out 1 specific relic more than the others. In short, the relic system is not working and it needs a serious helping hand to become a good system.

Next up we have the rivens. Only word I can think of to describe them is "Broken" and with the addition of melee rivens, that makes it even more broken. The way DE described rivens (forgive me for not having the right wordings and the quote on hand), they where supposed to bring life to lesser used weapons, add interesting stats to weapons and make us have a path to to that dream riven. So far rivens meet none of those, not a single one. They don't have interesting stats, they just have more stats that's already in the game. They don't bring life to lesser used weapons, when they're still making meta weapons more powerfull and they certainly don't have any kind of path to anything other than lottery frustrations. The chance of getting the riven exactly as you want, your version of a dream riven is in those 0.0001% mods that Rebecca had the nerves to comment about in the resent data mining debate. You want to avoid them? They're already here and have a huge role in the game as it is! The rivens have a possibility of 24 possible positive or negative rolls, with the addition of not having a stat in the last 2 stat slots. As stats cannot be repeated, the math for a is 24 rolls in the first, 23 in the second, 23 in the 3rd and 22 in the 4th slot, making it 279.312:1 of getting that dream riven. 279.312:1! There's absolutely nothing reasonable about that number and to say there's a path to that riven, that's just a straight up lie, because it's luck of the draw every single time you cycle a riven and no exclusion of previous rolls, meaning 300 rolls in, the chances aren't 279.012: they're still 279.312:1! Imagine that you actually wen't and rolled a riven 279.312 times, the amount of kuva you would need for such a task would be 997.507 kuva. With a Kuva Siphon givin 550-700 Kuva, that math alone drops in to the catagory of unreasonable, even with a resource booster, which all of this smells like a driving point for us to go and buy, just to have the imagination of making any kind of progress. Then lets talk about the slot cost for rivens. That's the next point of rivens that falls in to unreasonable. A weapon slot cost 6 platinum, I know they can only be bought 2 for 12, still makes 1 slot cost 6 platinum. With the amount of weapons in the game, that's still a significan't chunk of platinum if you want them all collected. Rivens cost 20 platinum for each slot (3 for 60), that is not reasonable at all! There's no way of spinning that to be reasonable, it's more than 3 times the cost of the slot for the weapon! That chunk of platinum is just simply not reasonable and I can say that without actually doing the math! There's simply nothing reasonable about rivens! And with the addition of melee rivens, it just feels like a method for DE of milking the cow for the last bit at all possible! The gab between melee weapons and primary/secondary weapons is already huge, now adding melee rivens, that gab is going to become even bigger and it is NOT good for the game! What the riven system desperately needs, is a method of making progress with the rivens we have, rolling singular stats, not the entire thing, that way we can actually have a path to that dream riven, we can make progress! As far as interesting stats, I don't think that will ever happen, as long as we just have base stats to roll, but if the cycling system at least got chanced to the point where we can roll those singular stats, then we're at least better off and have a somewhat working system for rivens. I am aware, that 99% of the rivens would be identical, but that's because 99% of the community want the same thing for their weapons, because that is what makes it the best possible roll in their opinion. Just on a sidenode, if you roll a riven with negative damage, you can actually heal the enemies instead, which makes that riven junk, no matter what the other rolls are, does that at all seem reasonable to anyone, that it's even an option of cycling negative damage?

Then there's the matter of the developers in the forums. I am aware that there's getting posted a lot of stuff every single day, but it's so rare I see a moderator or developer actually post anything, the vast majority of the threads, we're getting left with the feeling we don't matter at all and we're posting for the garbage bin! The absolute best option we as regular players have, is contact a partner or content creator with a brain, who is willing to take the battle that even they have getting through to the developers! What happened DE? You used to listen to the community, at least to some extend, but that feeling have long gone and I see players again and again getting frustrated with DE, writing in the chat out of pure frustration and getting kicked and banned for having an opinion at all. Contacting you at support is a dead end too, we're getting the same standard reply refering to the forums and after enough posts here, without any kind of answer, only a few trolls sitting and shutting down good and intelligent ideas, for what ever reason I can only speculate to. Another thing you handled poorly is the resent data mining debate, you put the information client side, if you want it kept a secret, keep it to yourself until you're ready to reveal it! It is naive to think no one is going to data mine warframe anymore and leak information, it is naive to think you can hide stuff in a game you know gets datamined, they fault of content being revealed early is your own. Datamining wouldn't even be a thing, if you had started out with reasonable drop chances and transparency in the beginning and I really don't think there's many people trusting you to NOT go back to redicilous grind figures, considering how much grind you've already added lately. Let us have data mining, we need it to even understand the weapons and mechanics of this game, because the information you're putting out is again unreasonable. Fix the problem, before forcing the community to remove OUR solution to YOUR mistakes and short commings!

Please just stop thinking of ways of trying to hide that you're INCREASING the grind in warframe, to make us spend money in an attempt to decrease that grind, it is unreasonable to the people who can't afford throwing hundres of dollars in to warframe every single month, just to be able to have a sense of progress in the game! 

[The Redeemer: Even greater confusion after testing.]

15 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

As Redeemer expert allow me to explain.

The shots of the Redeemer are Impact based, with charge attacks having high chance to proc Impact which staggers enemies if they somehow survive.

The melee attacks, or in other words, the ones which you actualy use the blades of the Redeemer are moustly Slash based.

As said above, the Blast proc on charge attacks happens exactly on top of you which is rather useful when you are surrounded.

It really doesn't take much to figure these things out, sure you may not get the exact numbers but at least you know what's happening, just pay some more attention.

I've already gathered that much myself and I'm by no means a redeemer expert or gunblade expert, yet I don't have mechanics to work with, just a guess and a shot in the dark.

I don't know which mods works, clearly Weeping Wounds doesn't yet Condition Overload does, does Healing Return work on gunblades or is that another melee mod that doesn't work on the charged attack due to the shotgun?

This issue of lack of information is far too common in warframe and it would be fantastic if DE made all mechanics and stats available to us, which mods don't work especially so! We are trying to make builds as good as possible, how can we do that with not enough information available?

[The Redeemer: Even greater confusion after testing.]

I've finally gotten my hands on Bullet Dance (does drop rates really have to be this bad?) and playing around with the Redeemer have gotten a big pile of inconsistencies pointed out to me.

Reading the in game stats for the weapon, 60 physical damage with the ips spread at 6 impact, 12 puncture and 42 slash. Nothing about the charged attack having a completely different ips spread, so imagine my surprise when I'm doing 90% impact procs, when I finally do get a proc.

Moved on to putting Weeping Wounds on for more procs and better testing, once again a surprise, I'm getting as few procs as before and the majority of those is impact.

Heading to warframe wikia and looking up the charge attack ips spread reveals it's pure blast elemental, which once again is highly inconsistent with the results of the tests I've just done.

Is it at all possible to get some actual stats on the Redeemer? And an explanation as to why Weeping Wounds doesn't work? Perhaps a list of mods that do work along with a full stat sheet on the charged attack too? Is it the same story with Serpa then? This is why Void_Glitch should be allowed his data mining, at the very least on weapons active in the game.

[Warframe; a game of hoping for the better so rarely comes.]

3 hours ago, Iccotak said:

 I think one of the things that I really need to come down to; is that the community needs to hold DE more accountable for creating a complete product rather than creating more junk for farming. 

Been trying to do that for quite some times, but there's just too many plat hoping DE scrub defenders on this forum

[Warframe; a game of hoping for the better so rarely comes.]

I certainly don't disagree with mods needs to have different drop rates and prime parts aswell, but mods with a below 1% drop rate simply should not be the case aswell as refining a relic and it still have a 50% chance of turning out to be junk. It is a grind increasing system and DE saying they want to reduce the grind, it just doesn't add up. Those 2 matters is just something that needs to get fixed, it's the basics of warframe, mods more than anything else in the game, it is what makes our builds work.

Rivens is broken to the point of just pure stupid, we have 0 control over the cycling and DE saying there's a road to that perfect riven is just as stupid as the riven system itself, there's no road, there's a very frustrating lottery and nothing more, an enormous grinding task with no sense of progression. Not only that, but for the vast majority of the armory, a riven doesn't make those weapons viable for anything, not even sorties. Then to me it is one of the biggest waste of time in warframe.

There is so many things that needs fixing, yet DE turns the blind eye and push out more garbage and more items we're going to have to buy for plat, instead of making warframe really good, by giving it strong foundation. DE needs to acknowledge all of the flaws in the game, get a grown up pair of pants on and make things right, instead of just pumping out items for fashion garbage. Use the income and make the game really good instead of spending that income on more fashion items! We got enough and we still have one of the most broken foundations in any game.

I do not think Destiny 2 is going to force DE to rework the core mechanics of warframe, they've had 3 years and still nothing, I think the refusal to rework the core of the game is going to kill off warframe entirely instead.

[Warframe; a game of hoping for the better so rarely comes.]

I like warframe, for the most parts. It's a different playstyle to most games, there's a good system for progression and there's chances to push your skills to the very limit. But there's also frustration and disappointment, in large more than there's rewards.

Let's start with mods, there's mods in the game with a drop rate so incredibly low, that after a full day spent farming for that mod, you still don't have it. Personally I can think of much better ways of spending my Saturdays, than enduring frustration and disappointment with nothing to show for.

Let's move on to damage and armor. The horse that's been beaten about armor scaling is going on 3 years now. 3 years and still nothing! You just resently corrected gas and stealth and somehow the rest of damage 2.0 got overlooked! How?! I could of course use armor stripping warframes and/or armor bypass damage, but then I'm even further limited in my choices of weapons and warframes. Considering the statements DE have made about rivens, I would think DE isn't interested in limiting our choices (which leads to a new situation, where something gets nerfed on popularity, in my view a forced popularity in the lack of other viable options).

Moving on, to the void, primes and acquisition of primes. Apart from different looks, the only real difference between a prime and a non prime is the energy pick up from void traps. The altered stats makes so little difference beyond level 50, that it's not even worth talking about. So let's instead focus on the useful quirk in a prime; making a slight detour past avoid trap, when getting a life support. This little feature is complete gone in 90% of the fissure missions, because we're not in the void anymore. Surely there most be some solution to give the prime frames their slight benefit back? Energy from picking up traces? From getting corrupted? The way we acquire prime parts now is also a terrible solution. I know the player base asked for a way to improve the drop chance on rare items, but the response to this was absolutely ridiculous! We wanted that option, because some of the items had a really poor drop chance to begin with! Take ash prime systems, it was 7.52% and couldn't be changed, now the rare items is a ridiculous 2% and considering the time it takes to farm void traces to increase that to something that I think would be a very reasonable base to improve uppon (10%), I don't think you've delivered on your word to decrease the grind. At all!

Rivens are just broken all the way through and I got nothing good to say on that front, already have and if DE really where interested in decreasing the grind, they would have done so by now, in a reasonable way that would allow actual progression in riven cycling.

Finally I keep hoping, that survival will make it on to all the different tilesets and not only dark sector or the grineer gallion, but for some reason I have so little faith in DE, that I know I'm going to grt disappointed over and over. At this point, I'm just hoping DE won't add more junk to warframe, more stuff to ruin the game, get players to spend more plat.... The increasing greed. Partnered with Activision or EA by any chance?

[Planets and their missions]

16 hours ago, Whiskered said:

IT could be on the planet, but in some facility.

Like for earth it could be a site where they produce the toxin, and when you hack the system, instead turning of the life support, they flood area with toxins. To keep alive you need to keep collecting life supports as usually.

Nice to see someone making a constructive idea. Looking at Law of Retribution and earth Sabotage already holds the solution to adding survival to the planet.

21 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

They made excavation as a planet-side counter to survival.

If that's the case, where's Ceres excavation? The liquids on Ceres is toxic, so why isn't the air? While excavation can be just as fun as survival, it's still just a mobile defense with a twist.

After my initial post, I also thought about the drop table, why would an operative go and steal something, that is readily available in multiple other locations? Wouldn't it make more sense the operative is raiding for items not available anywhere else? I don't have any specific ideas for what it could be, just not something with a 0.00015% drop chance, like a riven with the exact rolls you want.

[Planets and their missions]

With the rework of the earth tileset, can we expect to get survival on earth by any chance? And on that matter, can we expect to get survival on the actual planets?

I'm gonna start out with Mercury, on the starchart, the Captain Vor assassination is on it's very own ship, but in reality, it's just on the Sedna/Mercury tileset and on Mercury only 4 of the 11 missions is actually on the planet, even worse is Phobos, the only 2 missions on the actual planet is Dark Sector and once Again sharing tileset with Mercury and Sedna, despite being a Corpus planet.

Earth and Pluto both have 2 exterminate missions and while Pluto does have a survival, it's not on the actual planet. Same thing for Mars, Ceres, Venus and Mercury, they all have survivals, but not on the tileset matching the planet, they're all located on the Grineer Gallion or the Corpus ship, where Mercury have it as an infested survival and not a Grineer Survival. Correct me if I'm wrong in Captain Vor have no link to the infestation and making it rather contradicting he would settle on a planet sharing it with the infested. A planet to make shared home is Jupiter, as it's the home of Alad V.

I think the rework of Earth is a small step in the right direction, but it's not only the graphical aspect of the planets that needs a rework, the starchart and mission locations do aswell. It makes no sense when doing a survival you're always visiting the same location for different resources. Just like the aquisition of resources doesn't match what available to mastery level in the market. All endless type missions should be placed on the planet itself, as it's the missions when we're at the planets the longest, giving us the biggest need for a change in scenery.

I do understand why earth got the first rework, but please do continue reworking all the planets and start with the planets that share tileset to give all planets a Unique feel and place all endless missions on the tileset that actually belong to the planet, not in the grineer gallion or the corpus ship. With the current gamemodes, the only use of the grineer gallion and the corpus ship I can find is Sabotage and Rescue, as they're the only 2 I can see a logical reason to use the tilesets for. Possibly Spy, if it got spun the right way. I still think they're tilesets, that have Little value in the game as a hole, simply because they're a Space transporter and doesn't feel like it at all.

Then to archwing, they're all the same, there's just a corpus and a grineer tileset, one of each, no feel to which planet you're actually on and somehow it would be nice to have an endless archwing mission type. I do understand the vast majority of players don't like archwing, but some of us do and are putting a lot of time into formaing our Space gear. On the archwing note, when it comes to controls, it needs one more rotational axis. As of now it have a forward looking vertical axis, a horizontal axis, but it needs a sideway vertical axis aswell, to allow us to rotate our warframe. That being said, the old controls still need to be an option to choose, as I know players can suffer from motion sickness with that kind of control.

[[Update 20] Octavia Feedback Megathread]

I don't even know where to begin with Octavia, she's just overall bad for warframe and the community.

Her abilities cancel out sleep abilities, her damage dealing is to the point of stupid, you can litterally stand in a room in mot for as long as you want, tbagging a container or what ever you find in there and just keep casting the first abilities, it destroyes Heavy Gunners, Bombards and Nullifiers alike. Not to mention the absolutely horrible 8 bit music, the truly annoying sounds she makes, even when she's muted and just the eye bleeding Graphics of her abilities. Hide behind a wall and tbag your way to Victory, is that what Warframe have become?

Then there's the community issues, it devides the community in to love Octavia and hate Octavia. Just as bad an idea as rivens where, which is dividing the community in to haves and have nots.

If Octavia scales of the damage enemies deal to her abilities, give all other warframes the same scaling, World On Fire, not matter how annoying, should have the same scaling then, as should Bladestorm, Soul Punch, Smite, you name it. DE that's something that really needs to be fixed, along side the Visuals you Guys messed up really badly. Random icons for life support? Random Icons for dragon keys? Come on DE, you expect us to spend Money on warframe, then at least act professional and make a professional product.

[Lepus Headgear, Color Picker and Double Credit Weekend!]

Yay, more stuff added and nothing actually fixed, oh joy at least there's a broken rework and a broken frame on the way, followed by a full compliment of bugs

[Making Warframe great again.]

Warframe needs diversity, it needs a way for players to have freedom in weapon choise, it needs a healthier community, it needs better ressource management and a better competetive system.

For the diversity, instead of removing Serration, Hornet Strike, Point Blank and so on, give them a dedicated 9th slot in the weapon, make it harder to level up, possibly even Lock it with mastery level, so rank 1 requires mastery rank 1, rank 2 requires mastery rank 2 etc. Then bring ALL weapons in warframe to the same level, so it doesn't matter if you bring the very first paris you got or Zarr, you can still kill that bombard before it kills you. I understand why DE have power creeps, to promote their new addition, but it's not needed. We as players are like children all wanting the new toy and try it out, some will like it others wont, but we will all get it to try it. Wouldn't it be great to be able to take out that gun we used to love, but is now absolutely hopeless due to nerfs and power creeps, then the next mission we play, we can bring out another weapon we used to love. Wouldn't it be great to be able to play with all they toys in the toybox, and not just the same 10 or so weapons?

The ressource management in warframe isn't exactly good, especially looking from a new players perspective. If you're just starting out warframe, it wont be long before you're able to get blueprints, that has resources in them you don't have access to. The idea of a weapon unlocks with mastery rank makes sense, but it would be a better idea to unlock them by planets you get available to you, that will ensure you have access to the resources that blueprint require. Another ressource that needs to be addressed is relics, it's just not fun playing the same mission 100 times to get the relics you need, spread them out, so we have to play all the different missions warframe have to offer. For simplicity I'm going to use Lith N2 as an example. Looking at warframe wikia, you can see it drops in Capture, Defense 1, Orokin Derelict Defense, Dark Sector Survival 1, Excavation 1, Interception 1, Rush, Spy 1, Survival 1 and Dark Sector Survival 1. Then we look at the drop chances for those missions and Interception is the one with the best drop chances. The same story goes for all other relics, so the best way of getting that 1 relic and all other lith relics you need, is to sit through interception until you got enough. Spread the relics out, so Lith N2 only drops from lets say Dark Sector Survival 1 and Dark Sector Defense 1. Now you would have to play all the mission types there is, to get the relics you need. With the increased grind to get the relics, we also need a better drop chance as a base and an expensive way of refining a relic, lets for arguments sake just say 1000 void traces, but with a 0% chance of getting the common item, possibly even 100% chance of the selected item we want, as long as the cost of refining the relic is high enough. The current system we have now doesn't Work, the base chance is worse than the old void and we refine relics to get the same 10% drop chance as we had with void keys. Maybe warframe needs to get rid of the RNG aspect all together and implement a task based reward system. Maybe relics needs to have a structured drop table, so we need to open x amount of Lith N2 relics to get the rare item. As to our 5 million nano spores and 100.000 Cryotic, we need something to use them on, not just contributions and foundry items, perhaps we can trade them to some kind of vendor for mods that just refuse to drop for us, or get ducats for them, something. Maybe a weekly package we can buy with a sortie tier reward, that requires a lot of resources. It would add to the game so it caters to all tastes, some people like to farm resources, while others like to go on long runs.

The healthier community and better competetive system goes hand in hand. We need a rewarding weekly leaderboard, not just a pointless weekly leaderboard. It has to offer new challenges each week to obtain that reward and it has to have an individual section and a Clan section. I'm not entirely sure what could be the competetive scores to go for, but more than just who did the most rounds in defense and who stayed the longest in survival. Maybe it has to be a weekly challenge with multiple tasks to them. We as players need something to come back for each week, and while I agree with Mogamu's point that story content can be 1 aspect of keeping our interest, challenges isn't a bad way either. Different tiers of challenges, so it's not an impossible task for new players and it's not a pointless task for veteran players. For the scoring aspect of any competetive interaction, I think an average score between participating members is a good solution, a Clan with 1.000 members can compete with the Clan that has 2.000 members, as each individual score will now matter and the top Clan is the one with the most skilled members, not the one just with the most members.

We as a community and developers need to put our heads together and make warframe go in a direction we all can agree on being beneficial and healthy for the game and the community.

[Ideas for a possible better scoring system for clans, relic reward system and why power creeps kills build diversity]

On 20/3/2017 at 10:21 PM, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

As much as I may dislike it, powercreep is an integral part of DE's business model and isn't going anywhere. No one would have moved past the Acrid had they not nerfed it. People use the synoid simulor not only because it's op, but because it's new. It will be surpassed by a new weapon that needs a new potato and new forma.

Many players are rather upset only having the choise of 3-5 weapons, the power creeps are simply not needed for a healthy business model. No matter if it's better or worse, we all still want that shiny new toy and see if it's fun. Keyword being fun, the same old toys doesn't need to get worse, time has made them boring and that is more than enough reason to get a new toy, ie a new weapon. Had there been no power creeps, then there would be 2 toys to play with, then 3, then 4 and so on.

I see your point about how it could backfire and I have been thinking about it, average score, among participating members or average score from the top scoring members. It would bring a healthy competitive environment to the individual clans for each member to develop skills aswell as it would bring a healthy competitive environment between clans. 

[Stuff to improve warframe]

23 hours ago, DarkRinnegan said:

You need to slow down and spell things right first of all, how do you expect me to take you seriously?

Correct spelling isn't what makes anything a point to be taken seriously, it's the nature of the point that's being made.

The topic that's being nyxs Absorb. My absorb is by no means set up to deal any kind of damage, it's set up to be protection. If a team mate shoots it, I'm no worse off and he's still safe and sound. Now with this change, I'm getting drained for energy and eventually I'm out and incapable of pulling agro, keeping my team safe to do a task. If this so called fix wasn't working as intended, for years now, I find it funny that DE choose to correct it, when we as players have found a really fantastic use for the ability.

In regards to DE listening to us as players, if they do, they have very selective hearing, since some broken things can be left in the game for so long, take gas and stealth, it arrived with damage 2.0, only now it's getting fixed. Why? It seems to me, that it's because of naramon is allowing every frame to utilize it, with no drawback to any other abilities. By no means am I saying leave it, I'm saying get to work on Damage 3.0 and better scaling, more balance in weapons and more freedom in build diversity.

DE is talking about removing Serration, I think it's a really bad idea. Ideally in my opinion at least, bring all weapons to the same level, because any weapon without serration can't kill a level 250, but as it is right now, some weapons with a maxed serration can't either. The same amount of work has gone in to both weapons, yet one can kill, the other can't. Make serration harder to max out if need be, but build diversity is needed for warframe, just for making it more fun!

As it is now, obtaining items in warframe is more work and less fun, it needs to be fun above all. If the process of obtaining any given item is fun, the 20 attempts is less demoralizing and more of a joy. If it was fun, it wouldn't matter if it took 5 or 25 attempts.

[Stuff to improve warframe]

I don't agree that her ability should absorb friendly fire at all, but it does. You can't should your teammates, but you can shoot nyx's ability and drain her for energy. There's nothing right abiut that and I don't know where DE had their head in this. The absolute only thing that has brought this on, is DE don't want Nyx being used to kuva farm, because it makes it easier. Nyx is a extremely effective CC frame, and now she's getting a fix, because people are actually using her now. This "fix" makes her the only frame where the teammates can affect her energy consumption and it opens her up to be trolled by bitter teens who can't stand not having an essential role.

Yes people troll on limbo, but you can get out of it, you, the targeted player, can turn off Limbos cast on yourself. Nyx have no way to stop a troll,other than turn off the ability and not doing her task as CC focus.

The fix Nyxs ability should have was not to absorb friendly fire, it's the only ability to my knowledge that does that.

[Stuff to improve warframe]

The biggest chance that would make warframe great would be some kind of weapon balancing to bring all weapons up to the same level, that would give us the biggest chance for diversity. Players want to be op and always want to be the one who does the best in any mission, it's the competitive nature of humans, we all look for an advantage. Bringing all weapons up to the same standard, would make Soma compete with Zarr, which competes with Sybaris, which competes with Mutalist Cernos and so on.

Then we have the focus schools. They need a rework, badly. Zenurik makes Trinity redundant when it comes to energy, vazarin makes sure you don't need a healer and Naramon, I don't think I need to ecen mention how broken that is.

Rivens need a rework too, I'd like them gone from the game, but in the interest of diversity, they are quite good,if they got reworked. As they are now, meant to be a balancer, they do not work. A riven that offers you a bit of an advantage and gives your weapon that last thing you wish it had, is a good thing. Lets say you wish it had faster rate of fire and better ammo efficiency, well get a riven with ammo mutations and rate of fire. Ammo maximum doesn't work. The way rivens are rolled too needs a change in my opinion. I'd happily spend 20k kuva to change 1 stat and get what I want in that stat, spending 60k kuva to change 3 stats and get what I want wouldn't bother me at all, but spending 100k kuva and not getting what I want...

Relics need to get changed too, the idea is good, the implementation is bad. We asked for a way to improve the drop chances in the tower, then you give us relics with a 2% drop chance we can then improve on, to get back to roughly the same drop chance as the old void. I fail to see the logic in how that's right. While we're on the subject of drops, 3 years ago you said Primed Chamber would return to the game, when? And your rng needs a rework, it's not working very well when it's possible to get the same 2 items on repeat from relics and get the same relics and mods on repeat from missions.

Clan competition needs a rework too, there's nothing in there to focus in skill level, what's the point if a competition, when skill plays a minor roll in the background, as long as you're enough people in the clan.

You also need to stop "fixing" things that isn't broken, latest example being Nyx.

Please DE, start listening more to the player base, all of us from the solo players to the biggest of clans, find some middle ground. Warframe needs a tune up.

[Ideas for a possible better scoring system for clans, relic reward system and why power creeps kills build diversity]

On 11/3/2017 at 5:45 PM, RistN said:

This is a new chapter of Warframe that you and others must accept.Face the truth.Size,experience and active members all matter now.

Why do you bring out average scoring?Single player clans would then have enormous advantage over anyone else.Why?What's the average score of 1 player?HIS TOP SCORE.

Please man get real and start recruting.

 

 

Then add some kind of bonus score for having more members in the clan, the point is still, that a moon clan who only just meets the requirements wouldn't stand a chance against a clan with double the amount of members, even if the bigger clan doesn't have any understanding of mechanics and doesn't have any kind of skill. If clans are meant to compete, it has to be based on the skill level, not the size of the clan alone.

[Ideas for a possible better scoring system for clans, relic reward system and why power creeps kills build diversity]

6 hours ago, Genesis7000 said:

the relic system well i liked the key system more but can see why people like relics more and Warframe is not meant to be a solo game you can play it like one (i do) but it is meant to be a solo game

As long as DE gives us the option to solo matchmake, then it's just as much a solo game as a multiplayer game. I'm aware that DE wants to promote Group play and I am fine with the Groups getting more loot for the same work, what I'm pointing out is a huge problem, is Groups are getting equal loot for less work,

A solution to that down right broken relic system would be reintroduce rotations. For example the old rotation system of A, A, B, C, but instead of 4 rotations, make it 9; A, A, B, A, A, B, A, A, C, where A = Common, B = Uncommon and C = Common. For a Group of 4 playing smart and staggering 9 relics, they would be able to get the rare drop on the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th relic. 3 more rotations for 3 more rare items, where as for everyone no matter the size of the Group, it would mean every 9th relic would be a guaranteed rare item. It would eliminate the grind for void traces, guarantee enough junk to turn into ducats and it would make it impossible to have people not getting the rare item after 20+ relics.

I have been trying to think of a better idea than being stuck in interceptions to grind out relics, but the best idea I have is eliminate all mods and credit caches from all drop tables, making every single mission available a viable option for farming relics. Another idea could be make relics drop in endless missions, but split them up making a need for all endless mission types (Excavation, Defense, Survival and Interception). The none endless mission types would then have a pure relic drop table with no mods at all, but having all relics. 50% chance of a relic from each rotation in endless missions, but with fewer relics in the drop table, then 100% drop chance for the non endless, from the full relic list. That's the best ideas I can come up with, but I would most certainly rather do 4 different missions 25 times each, than the same mission 100 times.

This would also be an option to use the full solar system to go hunt down the relics needed, then go and crack them open in the void. There would then be a point to all missions, the void would be the glorious place it used to be, while players wouldn't spend 99% of their time there. We would have to go get our relics somehow.

[Ideas for a possible better scoring system for clans, relic reward system and why power creeps kills build diversity]

Let me start with the Clan scoring system, I'm using ghost Clans as an example, but scale it up to any size of Clan, the problem only becomes bigger.

In the current system, the score for a Clan in an event is accumilative, it's a down right broken way of doing it. If yoh have a Clan of 3 friends, posting a score of 200 in some event, the accumilative score for that Clan will be 600. Then comes along a Clan of 8 friends, who invest less time in warframe and don't have the same skill level, but they each get a score of 80, accumilative that's 640. That score will be enough to beat the first Clan, but the effort will be far less, considering enemy scaling. A better system is average scoring, it ignores the size of the Clan and rewards the overall skill level and activity of a Clan. Isn't the most active Clan with the overall higher skill level the better Clan?

Then we have the power creeps. All the weapons that have been nerfed into uselessness is a chapter on it's own, but the old weapons are becoming unused because of power creeps, it's killing diversity in this game more than any single weapon is capable of doing. It's forcing players to use a certain set of weapons. It would be much better for the game and the community to have a well balanced weapon loadout, where all weapons have the same power potential. This opens for another point to be made, instead of just fixing one aspect of Damage 2.0, please scrap it and focus on Damage 3.0? Gas+Stealth have been in the game and untouched for years, just drop the idea of fixing 2.0, there's too many things wrong with that system, armor scaling, multipliers on melee weapons only, etc

The we have the grind from the relics. They do not work right and are not rewarding at all. Let me explain, the grind for getting 1 rare item, as a solo player, is according to Warframe Wikia 12.9 expected radiant relics. The math behind those 12.9 relics makes for a really stupid calculation! It's a bit better with a 4 man Group, but it is still a just as stupid a calculation. The 4 man Group needs, according to Warframe Wikia, 2.9 relics. That math is, with a 10% drop chance on a NEO relic in an interception, Again according to Warframe Wikia, the game more that offers the absolute best chances of any kind of relic. Those 10% makes it fair to assume 10 rounds of interception in total is needed, that's more than 3 times the attempts on the actual relics themselves. And they aren't even radiant yet. The grind is way out of balance and it becomes a bigger and bigger problem the smaller the Group, have a look at what the expectensy of a solo player is for an item. And while we're at it, go on youtube and look the number of players who's using 30+ relics for a rare item. Both the system and RNG is directly broken and that too is killing warframe faster than even the power creeps!

[Void System ---> Relic System]

6 hours ago, ComCray said:

No. The stronger clan is the larger clan that puts in more effort (either in recruiting and/or in playing).

Only in Hollywood can a skilled warrior win from a multitude of weaker warriors. In reality the skillful warrior will be butchered by even a small group of peasants with sticks.

And now you are alone, you're not even a clan, and you think you can take on real clan and also think this should work out well for you. No, wait, you do not only think it should work out well, you're even convinced you, on your own, have a right at getting a reward in a competition specifically designed  for groups. Mindblowingly entitled.

Maybe, just maybe you should get out of that bubble you're obviously living in and talk with some people in the outside world. You might find that talking to yourself in your bubble is not the most ideal way to form opinions of the real world.

In other words, only size matters, skill level doesn't? It doesn't require any effort to learn all warframe and understand the mechanics at play, it all comes down to size and size only? Are you American? With your argument of skilled warriors will be butchered, why do almost any nation in the world put in the time and effort to train special forces, instead of loading up a plain with the good old horde of farmers and peasants and go hunt down Frankenstein? 

I don't spam Heiracon and I use Cerberus, Pluto to get my relics now, I do understand where to go and get my relics efficiently, its a 75% Neo relic drop chance in rotation A and 100% Axi relic drop chance in rotation b/c. Each rotation is 2-3 minutes. I'm sitting there round after round trying to get a specific relic and get enough of them. That is not rewarding, interesting or even fun. The old system, I would get T2 and T3 keys from leveling something up, no need at all to farm for keys. T4 keys where occational but still enough that I would have 2-5 at all times. That is why I never went farming for them, I got them from doing other things.

Farming for resources is better than before, as you get to play all planets, no doubt about that. 

Staying in a missions for 60 minutes, where you get a prime part, either for ducats or useful prime part, is far more rewarding, than sitting in an interception round after round watching the drop table give you relics that cannot give you what you're really hoping to get.

I don't mind playing other tiles than the void, I can't wait to play on earth after the rework is done, it looks fantastic, I like the Grineer Sealab tileset because it offers different challenges than regular tilesets, you could even get some use of archwing with underwater fissures. , The point I'm trying to make is, the only tileset that benefits you in any way for having a prime is the void. Why not make the void fissures themselves count as a void trapn for example? 

Playing strictly solo adds way too much needless grind and unlike what you think, I have talked to other solo players and most of them think the same, that the relic system doesn't work at all for playing solo and it is far less rewarding.

[Void System ---> Relic System]

9 minutes ago, crenian said:

If you get a bad luck then you are blaming the system? wow. If you got a bad result from a relic then it's just you getting streak of a bad luck. 
Took me 26 radshare run to get Valkyr Prime Chassis but only 2 radiant relic (solo run) for Helios Prime Cerebrum. Did I blame the RNG? No. Your luck is bad. Deal with it.

Need to farm relic first? You need to farm void key first. Unless your void key is appeared out of nowhere.

Also bringing 4 same relics boost the chance to get the rare part just by doing a single run. Same rewarding experience? I don't think so. 

You farm for an hour for a single key. Now with the system it's just the same. Farm for an hour untill you and your friends have 4 radiant relics. It is way faster. You farm for an hour for what? 3 times rotation C? so 3 times for a 7.5% chance to drop a rare part. Meanwhile upgrading relic to radiant is way way faster. 

Please give an example where the old system is much more rewarding. Please. And if you say that it is better because you can just use 1 key and going with friends it is not a valid argument. We are discussing how is the new relic system punishing solo player. I give the source and example why is the new system is better. Even for a solo player. 

 

Didn't farm an hour for a key, went and did a spy mission or 2, while leveling up a gun or something, got a key that way, then I could use 1 single key to go have a lot of fun in the void and get rewarded for staying in longer. It's far more rewarding, than having to bring 12 relics for an hours worth of play. It was more rewarding, because I didn't have to sit through the same interception 50 times to play for an hour and have enough of the right type keys, get a T3 survival or T4 survival key and good to go. Nothing to do with some specific loot, just getting rewarded for staying in, ducat fodder or useful drops alike.

[Void System ---> Relic System]

The stronger clan wins, isn't that the clan with the better players then? Even with the team oriented point example, you're neglecting to see, that people have different requirements for their clan, some people like having players of the same skill level and not catering to stubborn snowflakes, who think the only way to run a clan is by size. When DE provides an option to solo matchmake, where you can't even invite, it's not a strictly co-op game and it seems to have missed your understanding.

The drop chance on the common items is 50% but it's almost always the same common item. I think it's great you can refine the relics, it's a fantastic idea, yet it's still not changing the fact, that I've gotten 3 forma and 7 saryn system, when I'm looking for a Helios prime part. I think the old system, despite it's flaws, was much more rewarding, in the fact with a single key, you could jump in with your friends, play for an hour and have fun and get rewards for your efforts. Now you need to farm relics first, to have the same rewarding experience.

[Void System ---> Relic System]

And its cute you're being condescending towards people who want to earn things and build without relying on anyone to help.

Lets go with your definition, the accumilative score still isn't working.

If I play with 2 friends and we make a clan together, we get a great score of 200 point each, 600 for the clan. Then a group of 9 go in and score 100 points each, beating the little clan easily. 

Had it been an average, the clan with the across the board highest score wins. Rewards all sizes of clans and rewards the skill level across the clan. I'm average at best and even if the scoring had been an average, I wouldn't stand a chance, but it would have been a fair scoring system at least.

Argon Crystals is from the void I know, but it was home of primes and now it's a farmers field? I still love playing there and I do play there. I agree all the other planets needs to be visited too, but why not just make a fissure permanently available in all planets, lith at earth, venus and mercury, meso at mars, phobos and ceres and so on? There would be choices and you could play on the tile you're in the mood for. The void then could have all 4 fissures.

[Void System ---> Relic System]

Yes, I choose to do my own work instead of relying on others to do some of it for me. I choose to earn my own rewards.

I also like how your definition of clans has nothing to do with gaming as such, how's common decent involved in this? Should I go grab my family then? I made a choice to solo, because I wanted to earn on my own, with the old system I played on equal terms, but having spent 10 relics trying to get a common item and only getting the same common and uncommon item from all 10? The suggestion I just offered with rotating the reward within a relic rewards group effort and it doesn't punish solo players by adding 4 times the grind. From 6 relics I would get mine, from 6 relics you would get yours, stagger the relic progression for a group and they could get more items they where farming, by working together, coordinating and being smart. Win-win.

If 6 isn't enough, then double it and make it 12, you and I would do the same work, you'd get your reward from playing and coordinating with a group and I would get my reward from doing the grind.

[Void System ---> Relic System]

3 hours ago, Camisoul said:

Then don't grind solo? Use recruit chat.

You're missing the point, I prefere playing solo. The new system punish you for playing solo, the old system didn't, it was equal for all.

Adding 50 armor doesnt change all that much, because if you want to take advantage of that with Steel Fiber, you have to sacrifice something else. Adding 25 more base health, sure it's all fine when you're playing anything less than 60, but push past 100 enemies, those bombards will still one shot you. So it depends on what you play and how you play, what the greatest benefit is. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for a void fissure to count as a void trap, jumping near it pose a risk, in that you got no idea what's coming through, a nullie who cancels your Iron Skin or what ever skill might be active.

It depends on personal preference too, if you like a cold and annoying corpus map, a closed and ugly grineer map or a void map with all bright colors and both huge rooms and closed hallways. The only other map I like for the visuals, that will be Earth when it's done.

If fashion frame is true end game, why are there no fashionable drops?

I get the need for competetive gameplay, clan challenges and so on, but it's not build fairly, make it an average score instead of an accumulative score? In the, on ps4, upcoming event, if I get a great score of 200, that would not be enough to compete against 3 buddies having a clan, if they got 75 points each, I've been beaten and with little effort too, compared to what I had to do. Again the current system punish solo play.

Why not make rotations on relics instead? 1st relic, you get first item, 2nd relic you get second item etc, that way when you go in a puvlic lobby, you might get lucky and play with a guy that just put in his 6th relic of the kind and solo players wouldn't have to grind endless relics to get enough void traces for 10 relics. It rewards playing in a lobby and it doesn't punish playing solo as bad.

[Void System ---> Relic System]

Relics work fine, if you team up, then you only need 2, max 3, to get what you're trying to get, but if you want to play solo, you need way more and the grind is ridiculous. You need to grind out 10 relics of the kind you need, assume you get 1 ever 3 runs, it's 30 runs. Just for the relics and seeing as you'll need that many, it'll be for the rare item, right, except I've spend the first 10 relics for a common item and gotten anything but that. Imagine if it had been for the rare item, I would need 1.000 void traces on top of that, so on average 15 traces pr relic, I'd need to use 67 relics to get that.

I know DE has lowered the threshold for when to get the blueprint, but how about truly great players that run a solo clan and take pride in it, they might want the ignis wraith blueprint in their dojo, and even if they get the absolute highest individual score in the event, they don't stand a chance, because they're running a solo clan. Don't they deserve the blueprint if they do better than every other player? Yet they aren't going to get it, because they run their clan solo and take pride in it. Doesn't seem like a fair competition.

Reasons to using a prime frame is individual, I liked that if I was in a tight spot with energy with too many minions around to have time to throw down an energy pizza, I could bullet jump over a void trap and solve that problem, with only slightly increased risk. 

Im no different from a lot of other players when it comes to rewards, and mod wise there's only a few mods reserved for dropping in the void, while a majority of mods drop out of the void. Not a problem, if I need a mod, I go grind it out where ever it drops, but there's next to no rewards left in the void, only a few dual stat mods and the occasional ayatan treasures. Isn't Orokin supposed to be something great, I mean why was primes and void linked together in the first place?