Sunder
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Posts posted by Sunder
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Just started a new Focus School...the fact that I have 120 days of hitting the cap every single day ahead of me is pretty soul crushing...
And there's still more schools I haven't even gotten to touch.
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Remove convergence orbs
- Either make it a "Press 6 to activate" ability
- Or just give us the multiplier at all times since it's already hard to gather focus through normal play
- Get rid of the "Pool". It serves no purpose what-so-ever. Just a focus dump.
- Cut the costs.
Focus 1.0 VS Focus 2.0 Costs
- Madurai........14,575,017......-->.....26,958539
- Vazarin.........12,823,833.......-->.....22,945,968
- Naramon.......10,263,003......-->.....23,028,681
- Unairu...........8,769,625........-->.....27,785,014
- Zenurik.........11,895,147.......-->.....29,807,925
- Total -............58,326,625.......-->.....130,526,127
Even with the Old 1.0 costs? It'd still take minimum 236 days to farm all the trees with the cap we have now
- So it takes 4 days to get 1 million focus
- That means 4 (days) x 59 (million focus) = 236 (days)
- Or 250,000 (focus) x 236 (days) = 59 (million focus)
I don't get it...why don't they just set a solid cost for each school? Why all the different prices? Overall they just need to make these costs obtainable. Not a chore that makes you want to gouge your eyes out...
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Remove convergence orbs
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21 minutes ago, Ceryk said:
Actually, Rebb does not seem to be on board with the current state of Focus. She did a Livestream the weekend after PoE launched and Steve was in there and she flat out suggested the idea of getting rid of Convergence Orbs. So I don't believe everyone at DE is on board with the state of Focus Exp to the point of complacency and just saying leave it alone. I'm sure it will be brought up more and more now that the daily cap is more that double what it used to be.
It's also not a problem that I think may take some time to deal with since they would actually have to come up with a plan, put it in, and test it internally rather than just throw it out into the wild. So I'm not really surprised it's things haven't been reworked in a hotfix.
Oh I didn't expect it to be in a hotfix. But I was hoping with each fix/update that came, someone would at least mention it.
Make an official statement or something.
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Just now, MarrikBroom said:
We must honor those that already farmed /s
I'm very annoyed disappointed and just MEH about focus.
I can see it now
- Reb: So...a lot of people are upset with the state of focus saying it's too much of a grind, too time consuming. Are there any plans to revisit this?
- Devs: .......
- Reb: Scott...?
- Scott: *makes face*
- Scott: *slowly shakes head no repeatedly*
- Scott: I feel we're at a good place now. And with the increased cap, the better len's, people are earning more focus now than ever.
- Reb: So players can expect having to earn all their focus abilities and passives?
- Scott: Yeah. Just wouldn't be fair to the folks who've already put in countless hours, and I feel we owe it to them. We start lowering costs for focus people are gonna want everything cheaper and that's just not how game development works. Give them an inch, they want a mile.
- Reb: *throws arms up like a shrug while giving half-smile
- Reb: There ya have it folks! Focus is to stay
I've seen so many threads on reddit and here on the forums about this grind. We've heard little bits here and there about them working on the reward system. About the economy of Cetus and how to make it fair to all players and stay fun while still feeling rewarding. But I haven't seen a single thing from any Dev about adjusting/fixing Focus.
Looks like it might go the way of the Hema...
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Well another update, still no word from Dev's about the state of focus.
Me-thinks they're gonna go on and on about the economy of cetus and just shun focus to the side.
Probably hoping we forget about it and just accept the ridiculous, insane grind.
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Just now, Lockhart77 said:
Yea, still, better than nothing. It also doesn't get limited by the daily cap so for hardcore grinders, its a step to the right path.
Wouldn't even consider this a step in the right path.
Hell I wouldn't even consider this facing the general direction of said, "right path"
I'd consider this sitting down while thinking about glancing over towards the right path.
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In other words? Yes it's nice. No it doesn't help the massive grind.
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10 minutes ago, Lockhart77 said:
Brilliant shard now can be turned to focus points though.
I believe this was just to give us something to do with them once we got enough to unlock all passives.
I don't think DE or anyone really, would be that out of touch to consider this a resolution to the Focus 2.0 grind.
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- Remove Convergence orbs entirely
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Make Focus a "Press 6 to activate" when the meter is filled. (Or press whatever)
- Works the same
- Only available for a limited time as is now
- Gives us a bit more control over when to activate it
- This would be specially useful in large tiles or the Plains
- Remove the pool entirely
- Cut costs by half
Boom. Focus is fixed, we can start progressing towards goals. Not perfect, but it's a major step in the right direction as I'm sure some others will agree. Plus once the first step is taken we can start really fine tuning things. As it is now though? It's not ok.
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Remove Convergence orbs - Make focus a "Press 6 to activate" ability
- Works the same
- Only available for a limited time as is now
- Gives us a bit more control over when to activate it (Specially useful in large tiles or the Plains)
Remove the "Pool" entirely. It serves no other purpose than to just be a focus dump.
Cut the costs. By half.
As it is now? It'll take well over 500 days of constantly hitting the daily cap of 250k to max all the trees. Good luck telling that to a new player you want to stick around.
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Easiest fix in my opinion?
PUT OPERATORS IN THE ARSENAL MENU
- Our primary, secondary, and third part would just be AMP parts that should be able to be switched in and out.
- We'd get to see our operator standing fully, thus making fashion-frame easier
- Chair would still be used for Focus
As for Zaws? I'd prefer the same treatment honestly. We always hear Hok yelling at "Pedleck" who I assume is the sleeping guy next to him who's being lazy.
Make it so if we talk to Pedleck all he'd do is disassemble or reassemble Zaws for us. Hell, have him charge a resource if needed. That gives us more customization as well as keeps in the spirit of the game/characters. Plus it'd be funny to hear Hok yell at him not to screw up or to treat the Zaw nicely.
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Said it many times in many other places, I'll say it again
Remove Convergence orbs - Make focus a "Press 6 to activate" ability
- Works the same
- Only available for a limited time as is now
- Gives us a bit more control over when to activate it (Specially useful in large tiles or the Plains)
Remove the "Pool" entirely. It serves no other purpose than to just be a focus dump.
Cut the costs. By half.
With no pool and all tree's costing half of what they do now? I think that'd be able to managed by a good portion of the community. Those who want to be casual about it can still get a tree done in a timely manner, those who wish to grind out all the trees will still take quite some time to do-so. Of course this is assuming a player is going about focus farming in an effective way. People who just put the lens on and go about their missions? Might not see as much of a gain. But hey, that's what "Press 6 to focus" is for. More accessible to all
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Remove convergence orbs. Make it a "Press 6 to activate focus". Operates the same once it's meter is filled.
Remove the "Pool". Honestly, what is the point of this? Just a focus dump to make things take longer. Get rid of it.
Have someone sit down and do the math for how long it'll take a dedicated person to max every tree (hitting focus cap every day)
Also how long it'll take a casual player to do so through normal play. (Alerted enemies, no stealth multiplier, etc)
Find a comfortable spot in-between.
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Just put the operator in the arsenal already.
Let us see the outfits while they stand, not sit
Let us swap out Amp parts and mix-n-match
Keep the chair for focus
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Still no talk of focus huh?
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On 10/17/2017 at 1:46 AM, JSharpie said:
I mean sure, buff the cap to 500k.
Now it only takes 70 days. Then what? Complain that it takes 70? These things are supposed to take awhile. No one is going to get every single one maxed out within a month. That's not how it's supposed to work. I think the 250k cap is fine per day, and just increasing how quickly we can reach the cap just a touch is what we really need.
Also why'd you post this in general discussion? DE doesn't look at that. You put in all this work and stuck it in the wrong subforum.
https://forums.warframe.com/forum/427-focus-20operator/ Here is where it should go.
I could not disagree with this more.
Nothing in this game should take 400+ days of every day cap'ing out just to max. That's just ridiculous and is definitely gonna turn some new players away.
On 10/17/2017 at 2:10 AM, JSharpie said:If you reread, I said they need to tweak how we get there.
Here is how a free2play model works. The entire idea behind making money off a free2play model is player retention. The reason there are grindwalls, foundry times, daily currency caps, etc is because DE wants players to come back the next day and check up on what they have. Whether it's to max out their syndicates, their focus, claim some foundry stuff, build a dojo room, what have you. By limiting they are able to in a way force a player to come back the next day if he wants to progress, instead of spending one day getting a large chunk of content done, they're able to spread the content out over a few days.
If you take this away, you take away player retention, which removes possible customers, which removes money from DE, and can hurt the company. This means slower update times, increased cash shop necessity, and maybe even expansions you have to pay for.
Personally? I'd love to have no syndicate or focus cap, but I understand that things don't work this way. You have to look at it from all angles. Personally, I think DE handles their free2play model really really well.
Again, I disagree. Nothing regarding focus has anything to do with Plat purchases save for the lens' people use. Even then I find it hard to believe that so many people purchase them that it'd effect the game in such a way that we'd have to pay for expansions. As for player retention? DE has created a living game. One that clearly evolves over time. New features, new characters, new weapons and gameplay mechanics. THAT'S their player retention. In addition to the work Rebecca and the Community team does to keep the player-base in the loop and excited for upcoming changes. (Dev-streams, Prime time, Tenno-Con)
On 10/17/2017 at 1:51 PM, Endorphinz said:I definitely agree with OP on this one. my feedback is not just one waybound nodes, though, it applies to the entire focus system. Since the introduction of the focus system with the second dream update, I have been playing this game almost non-stop and steadily farming focus. It's been almost 2 years (December 2015) and I haven't even remotely come close to denting any schools. 2-3 million focus accrued each for 4 out of the 5 schools, which is enough to max out maybe 2 or 3 nodes in a focus tree. I imagine that if I'd focused all that focus into one single school, I still wouldn't even have enough to max out all the nodes.
I've had focus lenses installed in all my most-used equipment and warframes, and 2 years of steady progress feels like barely anything. Can you see how discouraging this can be to a player? There are obviously a handful of players that cheerfully run to the mindless Berehynia grind, but I think those folks should be treated as the exception rather than the rule; it's just not fun to grind that map, and I think a lot of people know that. It's been stated by the devs that that sort of afk farming is something they want to get rid of, rather than encourage; and yet, looking at the numbers, I honestly can't tell what they were thinking.
Increasing or removal of the focus cap does not fix anything, because it does nothing to abate the monstrous amount of grinding needed. All it does is tell you that instead of grinding one mission for 2 hours a day, you can do it for 4, or 8, or however long the human body can sit in one spot.
Based on my experiences, and OP's math, focus is just too unforgiving of a grind currently.
Got assigned "Naramon" right when the 2nd Dream update dropped. Put lens' on my favourite gear, eventually got Greater Lens'. Have never even looked at any other lens. Wanted to complete the tree I was on before venturing forth into the others. Before PoE I had 2 nodes left on my tree. Now I have 4, plus the millions to max out all of them with a shard. It's just insanity at this point.
And I can usually get the daily cap in 3-4 runs of Extermination on solo. Takes me 15-20 minutes at most. But the realization that I"m going to have to farm this same mission, with the same loadout....Every...Single...Day. Well that's just disappointing. I realize it's just a game but this is one game I've been a part of since the start. One that I supported and have loved and want to do well. This type of grind-wall just doesn't bode well.
("PC Gamer" & "Rock, Paper, Shotgun" have also posted about how the costs are ridiculous)
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If it was up to me? I'd remove convergence orbs entirely. Make it a "Press 6 to activate" function. When the focus bar is filled, you activate, and get a slight yellow energy effect on your frame and go to work for a limited time. Same function, don't have to run around looking for some random magic orb to appear.
As for the focus itself? Get rid of the pool.
Honestly, it's pointless and serves no purpose other than to just sink more and more focus into.
And it's sadly and unfortunately very unlikely...but I'd love to see focus costs cut. With costs cut, and no pool anymore, it could take maybe a year for a casual player to max their trees. Obviously those dedicated to strictly focus farming would get it quicker but again, not something that'd be done overnight.
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16 hours ago, MagPrime said:
I'll be totally honest. This has severely dampened my interest in the new focus schools.
I'm literally dreading how long it's gonna take to get the focus for these...
Every time I start the game up it's just this nagging, annoying feeling in the back of my head telling me,
"You have so much repetitive grind ahead of you...."
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Reduce....grind...?
They can't do that!
That'd make players happy and have fun!
But really, I was hoping the "Job board" would be like other games where you simply accept the tasks (Multiple at a time even) and just go out into the plains and have multiple waypoints. Letting you choose what to do. Also a shame there's no standing gained while just out there killing grineer or liberating their camps or anything. Aside from that? If it stays the way it is, the rewards really need to be beefed up.
- Accept mission
- Do multiple parts (Like what sorties should've been)
- Get measly reward
- Walk all the way back to Cetus to get your next one and repeat
Credits should not be on the reward list. Neither should the run of the mill mods that are available everywhere pretty much. In fact, they shouldn't just replace the crap rewards, but they should shorten the list as well. Really makes me hope all the insane costs for everything is their way of shocking people into spending plat to proceed instead of grinding for months. And that come Monday/Tuesday they'll say, "So we saw your feedback and will be adjusting things accordingly"
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Welcome to the Plains of Eidolon.
Prepare to Grind....
- Focus (LOTS)
- Cetus Standing
- Quill Standing
- Fish
- Rocks
- Random materials found on the plains
Pretty much the entire economy is a brand new separate system. May I suggest oiling your willpower lest you burn out?
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1 minute ago, Desdemona-XI said:
I dont really see how any of the focus schools have been ruined. and I'm a zenurik.
Madurai still gets it's damage buff. narmon still gets it's melee and affinity buffs. Zenurik still gets energy if not quite the same way though.
the fact is focus 1.0 was mostly ignored or unused because most players only cared about the passives. and the non passive powers were often either op or ungainly or in some cases utterly pointless.
that said. I believe the Held 5 to focus active powers should be reinstated. I miss my stasis pulses just as much as I am sure any madurai player misses their unibeam of Doom. the various addons to that active power honestly I dont really care that much about. I wouldnt mind seeing them return too. though i think then the focus tree should be divided between operator and focus powers so people can put more attention where they want it.
Costs are way too high.
That being said, I got Naramon for my school when I completed the 2nd dream. I put lens on my favourite gear, moved up to Greater lens and even bought some. But even with that? I didn't come close to maxing out the school. In these last few weeks I've been farming Naramon non-stop and the grind has been horrid. Before PoE I had 2 nodes left. That's it. I was proud. Thought it was excessive grinding...but I was proud. Now the update comes and I need a TON more points. I went from having two nodes left, to having 4 plus an other two upgrades to a 5th node. AND needing lots more "Pool" points (why are these even a thing?)
Not to mention having to get Eidolon shards (Assuming they come from Eidolons which requires a ton of grind to be able to be strong enough to take them down) which just increases the grind even more. And I thought it was bad before....
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On 10/13/2017 at 4:37 PM, DEATHLOK said:
Did I understand this correctly: Focus lenses are now hidden behind a new, massive PoE grind wall?
Focus lenses aren't going to be awarded for Sortie missions. We have to play Crippled Kid Simulator and fight the new Eidolons to get lenses? Greater lenses were already damn hard to get, but now we need mountains of those to make a new, more powerful lens, as all Focus costs have increased exponentially?
Please tell me where I'm mistaken, or what else I'm missing.
Spot on.
These costs need to be cut in half.
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Nope. No current way at the moment. And if you want to max the other schools get ready for LENGTHY grind.
I suggest oiling up so as to not burn yourself out.
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Oh I agree wholeheartedly with the aerial combatants being incredibly tedious. I seem to recall them showing the gear wheel archwing deployment as a place holder. Saying they were working on something else. Something QUICKER.
And the grind? I just can't believe these focus costs. They need to be cut in half. At least.
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All rep/focus/standing points need adjustment.
A cap for the people of Cetus? Why??
Focus costs are too high and need to be lowered. Massively.
Quill standing is so slow to progress. It's gonna be a horrible, grind that'll burn many people out
Whoever was in charge of deciding the numbers for this update REALLY dropped the ball.
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6 hours ago, theclinton said:
Im pretty sure they increased focus exp gain and daily cap
Doesn't really help us. Yes it helps you feel like you're making more progress but just look at the numbers. This is some ridiculous grind.
6 hours ago, theclinton said:I said increased focus gain too which actually does help
Still a slap to people who already maxed a tree. And increased progression is still just more grind because of the increased costs. I knew we'd have to earn SOMETHING but to need so much? It's just annoying...
3 hours ago, Jarcu said:They should have left the focus alone and just added this thing in alongside it or something. Can use focus for your warframe or for your lil operator guy, or both. so if you want to make them better you can, or you can continue to ignore it like you almost always have.
From the 2nd dream when I was assigned Naramon? I've gotten some lenses, and made I think 1 greater lens (Bought the rest) and I had put them on my favourite gear.
I was almost done with the tree then this update came out. Now I don't want to even bother...but I feel as though I'm missing out on the entirety of Eidolon hunts and all their rewards cause the grind wall is just so massive.2 hours ago, Mattoropael said:That, in all realistic scenarios, only amounts to either "I'll stand around in Bere/Hydron every day for 2.5x the amount of time I previously did", or nothing at all since the conversion rate is so low, it's almost impossible to max out the old 100k cap through normal gameplay.
2 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:This may sound a little cynical and rude towards some players but...
I don't log in in order to sit in Bere for 1 hour.Which is why this stuff needs to be addressed.
1 hour ago, LSG501 said:Getting focus outside of cheesing maps has been a problem....
Agree pretty much wholeheartedly.
1 hour ago, Littleman88 said:It's grindy, sure, but a grind too short has the opposite problem - people sitting around wondering what there is to do. This is evident in the short term witnessing those individuals that hit the cap for the day in anything. Consider PoE's bounties: sure there's plenty to collect from them for now, but if you had everything and hit the reputation cap, would you really care to run more bounties until they cap reset?
Long story short, it's cool to have a goal, just don't make obtaining the goal the sole reason you're ever logging in. Enjoy the ride.
Oh I didn't expect a short walk. And I see that DE tried to make the bounties something that could be repeated.
You get your standing, but you also get rewards. And the bounties are excuses to go out into the field to farm fish/minerals/etc.
But as it is, the grind is massive, and it's not fun.
6 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:Yeah...
And now we have to fish for fish oil for charges to fly. WTF. That's exactly why I started playing Warframe—because I wanted to catch virtual fish.
I don't remember Robin mentioning the fish oil requirement went touting the newfound "freedom."
I can't wait until we have to buy ammo, too.
If I recall they said when they were showing it off that they were going to have a different way to launch Archwing, instead of a gear wheel item.
Whatever happened to that?
Distilling shouldn't ever have left
in General
Posted · Edited by Sunder
There's zero negative impact to players having this available to us. I honestly cannot fathom why this was removed in the first place. Today's hotfix featured...
Which is a nice start.
But we need Arcanes of the same rank to stack.
We need an option to distill. Making them, "Like mods" shouldn't be a reason to remove them. Their uses are limited and situational in most cases. If they're to be, "like mods" then make them mods. Arcanes were always separate for a reason. I noticed yesterday players who posted and expressed their annoyance at accidentally ranking some of their arcanes to Rank 2 and then the rest of them to Rank 1. Effectively splitting their groups permanently and ruining their sets. This issue was brought up to Pablo very fast following the update
I'm happy that DE stepped up to acknowledge this. But putting a warning and trying to make it more obvious (Like red text indicated) was, and is not the fix we're looking for. I really don't want to plague support with even more tickets than they already have just to ask someone to go into my inventory and adjust an accident...
Please restore Distillers functionality.