geninrising
-
Posts
1,758 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by geninrising
-
-
Wow, all this talk of syandanas and barely a word about Nekros' extremely lackluster changes. The things people regard as important SMH.
The very content of the posts in this update should tell you guys exactly how little Nekros is cared about. Please actually CHANGE their minds about him, rather than leaving him as Farmer John.
-
Sir it appears that you do not realize what WF is about. Let me enlighten you.
Player CHOICE. That means taking the weapons you WANT where you want them and expecting them to function the way they always have. However with this particular enemy it's mechanics are weighted heavily in favor of High ROF weaponry. Thus we have an imbalance that needs to be corrected to ensure player choice thrives instead of dies.
Honestly every word you have written is some vitreol towards players that do not choose to play your way and therefore should "adapt".
Lets flip the script on High ROF weapons for a week. Change nullifiers to allow high damage low ROF weapons to pop the bubbles in seconds and force high ROF weapons to take 6-9 seconds to pop the bubbles and see how many players change sides to actually thinking this crap is unfair and biased.
-
In conclusion to what have been said, it's only still Accelerant which is good for Ember, nothing really changed and this is the issue, yet you guys are still being hipsters who are saying Ember is already good as she is, give me a break.
See now you are putting words in peoples mouths. I did not say she is good atm. I am in no way happy with her current state.
She currently has 2 different abilities that are counterproductive to their own use. Fire Blast has a ring of fire that enemies will not touch and her ult is counterproductive because if you have a duration build you make it so expensive you cannot afford to re-apply Accelerant or Fire Blast as needed.
In short she is not able to operate optimally because it screws you to use anything other than Accelerant and Fireball.
-
OP updated to include AI feedback and Desecrate feedback.
-
Enemy on enemy damage as a whole needs work; Nyx has the same issue in that Choas'd or MC'd enemies will never do anything to each other past Saturn because HP scaling has outstripped damage scaling.
MC works but unfortunately it requires a total pwr strength build to make it worthwhile and even then your MC target gets killed so easily that essetially makes the build virtually useless.
-
I have been testing non stop with min-max strength and duration on the summons.
Verdict?
They are still too weak. Instead of killing nothing, they kill around 12 enemies per minute [(many frames can do this in 1 second)]
Damage is better but because of the poor AI, doesnt anywhere near go far enough.
Health is much better and seems fine where it is, many of the summons stayed alive for the duration of the summon.
Tested using: Blind Rage, Intensify, Transient Fortitude, Narrow Minded, Primed Continuity, Constitutioin, Streamline, Redirection.
Side note: As well as having STILL very weak summons considering my mod loadout, the Nekros was simply falling down like a piece of paper.
A step im the right direction but i still think the damage boost to summons is still waaay bellow whats needed.
Agreed. Nekros is still in no way viable as anything other than a farmer.
-
IKR they definitely need to make sure they are all on the same page and not Telling us one thing and doing another.
-
AI is still too bad to warrant having a Nekros DPS rather than a farmer for LS. Still needs more work.
-
Shadows of the Dead is still extremely lackluster. Currently even though the damage has been scaled dramatically it falls exceedingly short of the mark for a useful ability. Unfortunately due to the health levels inherent in enemies there is no way that the Shadows can actually be useful. They are currently nothing more than a distraction with a lacking AI.
I would suggest providing the shadows with a x3 multiplier in a subsequent balance pass to ensure that an army of the dead is able to serve more purpose than being bullet sponges.
Additionally the AI should be upgraded in SotD to fit the mold of the infested style aggression, constantly seeking out targets and never hiding. They are already dead and enslaved by Nekros after all.
Lastly, Mirage's mechanic for Hall of Mirrors needs to be implemented for all of the shadows allowing players to both see through and shoot through them.
Desecrate honestly needs to have LS as well as mods removed from it's list of possibilities or changed to a durational aoe. Currently these are the only things that draw a player to using Nekros at all. To be absolutely crystal clear here. No frame should be relegated to the role of a farmer.
Soul Punch needs to be a 1 handed action which does not interrupt reloads. This was talked about in a previous developer post and is a good idea. Many other frames now have a 1 that does not interrupt reload, make it equal.
Terrify is FANTASTIC IMO atm and there is no criticism from me in it's current iteration.
-
Most people don't even build for shields and health anymore, much less armor.
They might use a redirection, OR a vitality mod. You might see a valkyr or two with vitality AND steel fiber.
Practically no one uses redirection AND vitality for high level content. They focus on power builds instead.
For iron skin to require redirection AND vitality AND steel fiber AND vigor AND ironclad charge just to obtain maximum EHP... is sacrificing a LOT of other mods. To add shrapnel onto that is sacrificing yet another mod.
There are a TON of sacrifices that must be made in order to maximize Ronyn's proposed revamp to iron skin's EHP. It would really require an entire build focused around a single ability to produce some of the "overpowered" results, which essentially involved not using the rest of his kit.
If someone is willing to sacrifice that much just to have a powerful iron skin... why not let them?
Wow... I have to agree... partially...wait did I say that? Oh hell it has begun. Truthfully though in order to create a full IS it would require 4 mods maxed. Which would still allow for the Iron Shrapnel, Fleeting Expertise, and Streamline which is IMO the problem.
Infinite Iron Skin is a HORRIBLE thing even if you have to have 7 mods to do it. If we further add Ironclad charge to that it becomes even stronger although difficult to utilize due to lack of duration for Charge. However with a simple change of streamline to Primed continuity the negative aspect can be completely negated allowing Ironclad Charge to operate with great effectiveness. So we are at the crossroads of whether we think supporting this idea of an infinite IS into play is good or bad and I see it as bad.
Well man I'll be real with you. The iron Bullwark idea is conceptually sound. A directional shield is great because it offers inherent counter play and skill requirements. If they put that augment in the game I'll be grabbing it in a heart beat. Unfortunately that doesn't solve our initial dilemma with iron skin because I don't really DE going so far as to rip out the basic of iron skin as a total body cover and replacing it with a directional shield.
I mean sure I suppose anything is possible but I think the best bet is to say "yes on iron bulwark augment, now back to fixing regular iron skin."
Unfortunately regular iron skin has some issues. It is so hard to balance because of what it is.
Full born immunity to just about everything, from any angle, as long as its up.
There is no real counter play, it's just keep hitting him until it breaks. So whichever version we go with has that problem to overcome.
The main reason I like the EHP version we came to is because of how it requires focused builds and rewards the player for that.
I am fine with the DR version too because I could see that working though I don't see it solving the level gap issue.
Then again I think wanting powers that bridge the gap is asking to much anyway...
Iron Shrapnel is certainly a game changer all around and all this free energy we get these days makes it too easy to spam like everything else.
Though at least with the version where a heavy defense mod focus is required for a good iron skin its much harder to fit spam casting mods in the set. For whatever that is worth.
Yeah the definite Crux of the situation at this point is Iron Shrapnel combined with a full spam setup. I am at a loss as to how to alleviate this unless it is changed into something else to ensure the prospect of immortal Rhino is erased, but then we look at the spam build additions to IS and the waters become even more murky.
Wait...Why not make IS a toggle like Banshees ult or Nyx's? That could actually solve the infinite IS thing by making IS drain energy instead of a single cast kind of thing.
This would prevent Rhino from being able to restore energy until IS is deactivated. We can allow full efficiency builds to utilize it without fear of godmode indefinitely. This way if a player wants to maintain immortal Rhino for an entire mission it will require they expend energy restores.
In addition we can allow Rhino players full bullet invulnerability during use without making it broken for low level players due to energy constraints.
Additionally players will learn energy management early and have it become the skill component for IS use.
The numbers for energy drain would need tweaking but I can fully see this working as it would be massively costly to maintain IS constantly without regard. Also I would lock Rhino out of picking up energy orbs to ensure he MUST deactivate it in order to recharge his energy.
-
Feedback on Nekros changes incoming in three, two, one...
Nekros has been weighed, measured, and found wanting still.
Terrify- Now a fantastic skill thus far in testing. It allows Nekros breathing room for his non damage oriented kit. Great Change!
Soul punch- feels much better, I did not test if it interrupted reload animations but I will test it later.
edit: still interrupts reloads and is not freely castable regardless of orientation. Additionally it's results upon cast on a tight group of enemies are random, one time you hit the guy in front and they all fly away. The next time the guy in front flies but the rest ignore it and come at you double time.
Shadows of the Dead- the lackluster AI still makes this skill only half good at best Please change their behavior to something akin to the infested with their endless aggression and seeking out of targets actively rather than patrolling. After all these guys are already dead why fear bullets?
Against infested this skill is actually worse than it SHOULD be due to the fact that infested come in unrelenting waves at a fast pace. I would have thought that would have arguably made the skill better but the double damage granted does nothing due to the numbers advantage that enemies have.
All in all Shadows of the Dead is still a dead skill, and is of no real use other than a distraction. The damage multiplier needs to be amped up considerably in order to get it to a place of usability.
All in all I feel the changes above did nothing to get Nekros out of his Farmer John rut. The only reason he will be included in parties is farming LS in survival.
-
Feedback on Nekros changes incoming in three, two, one...
Terrify- Now a fantastic skill thus far in testing. It allows Nekros breathing room for his non damage oriented kit. Great Change!
Soul punch- feels much better, I did not test if it interrupted reload animations but I will test it later.
Shadows of the Dead- the lackluster AI still makes this skill only half good at best Please change their behavior to something akin to the infested with their endless aggression. After all these guys are already dead why fear bullets?
Against infested this skill is actually worse than it SHOULD be due to the fact that infested come in unrelenting waves at a fast pace. I would have thought that would have arguably made the skill better but the double damage granted does nothing due to the numbers advantage that enemies have.
All in all Shadows of the Dead is still a dead skill, and is of no real use other than a distraction. The damage multiplier needs to be amped up considerably in order to get it to a place of usability.
All in all I feel the changes above did nothing to get Nekros out of his Farmer John rut. The only reason he will be included in parties is farming LS in survival.
-
snip
Honestly I'm unsure what would be better at this point as I feel that the IS EHP version we have been theorizing is a useful version and would serve the purposes but I again look at Iron Shrapnel and become unsure.
Of course the same goes for the flat % drain version. Both suffer from an implemented circumstance due to the inclusion of Iron Shrapnel and the godmode loop. Hence why I offered the Iron Bulwark Idea as a way to shift power rather than replenish it in order to facilitate a change to IS without incurring godmode. I think it might work if we can figure our a way to tune it to prevent back to back Rhino's or corner camping Rhinos from utilizing said godmode.
-
You're keeping the enemies stunlocked? or the CC contribution of the Lokis were too much and you're under a delusion you were actually the reason why the enemies are being kept at bay? I know that Accelerant is pretty good if you got a heat focused weapon BUT it's not as good as you're overrating it. First, it's damage multiplier against most mobs on voids isn't something special, next, heat is just a small damage fraction of your damage output so it just keeps getting worse.
Are you sure about 1 hour? Even with 3 corrosive projection and under the Total Eclipse buff, it takes a Soma Prime about 1-2s to kill a heavy even if it does tons of 10k crits at 15 fire rate and has 90% chance of doing another hit with multi-shot mods. How can Ember replicate this with just Accelerant and a heat-built weapon? I think you're under the delusion you can.
Post a screenshot of you doing 1 hour T4S w/o any other damager/debuff frame, only with Loki and Nekros again.
Actually it's quite possible due to the fact that Loki disarms causing enemies to have to close ranks with ember in order to deal with her, which is precisely what she want's them to try and do. FB not only knocks them back but creates a ring that melee enemies will not bypass for some inane reason under 90% of circumstances without some charge or leap mechanic ala chargers and other infested enemies. Also accelerant causes a 4 second stun allowing Ember to generate operational space between foes and herself. The other day I made an hr as Ember with a Nekros and a Valkyr in t4.
Threat assessment and positioning are Embers game ATM. Who knows if or when this may change but for the moment just a Loki and an Ember are sufficient for long runs easily if I can do it without one. Add a Nekros and Valkyr into that on 4 cps and 2 hrs seems quite easy IF the team assesses threats properly and tag teams all nullifiers asap.
-
1. I agree that trying to balance around some theoretical raid that is for the best of the best would be unwise however...
I think the abstract idea of "requiring skill" is exactly why we need to be looking at the mechanics of powers to have a skill based component.
So whichever version we come to needs to factor that in.
2. I disagree. Any DR percentage that would be functional at level 60 would be too strong at level 40.The same problem persists.
I stand by my stance that this is whole "a power needs to create the right level of challenge at level 40 and level 60 enemies" is expecting too much.
In my proposal power strength specifically did not improve iron skin in any way.
That is an intentional design meant to separate the effectiveness of iron skin (direct mitigation) from the effectiveness of his other powers (offense)
As for the agreement (or lack of) on the specific numerical values...
I think we (you and I at least) could reach a generally good number with a bit more work on it.
As I said earlier, we need to settle on a mechanic of exactly what and how grabbing aggro increases Iron Skin.
Just tell me what you think the base and cap for iron skin should be (for what level of enemy) and I think I could sort it out.
3. The problem there is some enemies have rapid fire weapon and some enemies have high power per shot weapons.
If one happens to go up against a few enemies with machine guns iron skin would be whittled down quickly even in early levels.
Where as an EHP version is more consistent regardless of what weapon an enemy brings to the table.
1.Agreed. I definitely feel as though 90% of powers are missing a skill component to allow players to use said skills further and further into content where it normally would not be efficacious.
2. The problem I see with that assessment is that enemies that do a high damage amount per shot will cause the same effect on an EHP IS. It honestly feels almost as though we cannot make it effective without it being supremely over powered. That's why I suggested wave 20 in t4 defense is an appropriate balance point because if we make it balanced for targets above said wave it becomes more and more over powered in lesser content. The number of hits thing allows Rhino to perform a threat assessment and combine his CC with the IS tankiness to eliminate priority threats to his survivability thus broaching the skill issue.
Given that most enemies favor automatic weapons it will behoove the Rhino to also think about cover and LoS dynamically while in motion to eliminate said threats. Whereas with the EHP Rhino it is entirely about how long he can go before IS is one shot, which is not skill based at all. Thus no matter how good the player is it will always come to Rhino eating a nullifier round or a rocket that completely wipes the IS.
If given that we work on a DR form of IS could we not implement a damage cap like with the nullifier shields to allow Rhino a certain leeway to work with while performing threat maintenance?
Honestly what I want to come to eventually is a point where Rhino can be allowed enough time to BARE MINIMUM pick up a downed ally without joining them in said state. While I feel IS should have a skill based component I do not feel it's effectiveness(baseline) should be predicated on the skill component. I feel that the skill component should be an extender to it's effectiveness allowing it to function beyond normal capacity.
-
Yet again, to a small extent, damage output does affect Nullifier Crewmen shield shrinkage.
Yes, the upper cap may be too low (yet again, I will suggest 600 as the cap), but at least damage does come into small play.
With 400 as the current cap now 600 will make little enough difference as to be no difference at all. It will still take low ROF weapons exponentially longer to destroy the bubble than high ROF weapons.
The only real way to make this entire thing amenable to all styles would be to remove a damage cap period and have the shrink occur only once the total damage exceeds it's capacity and then shrink at a metered pace. Additionally the shield MUST factor in critical hits, otherwise there again we will see a gap in effectiveness of weapons.
Why is this so difficult? DE created this convoluted damage cap/health/number of hits paradox, and it would be so simple to say damage exceeding X =shrink at X pace.
-
Long duration builds on Ember since Accelerant's implementation had been deviant because they focused on WoF when focusing on Fireball and especially Accelerant made much more sense as they are far more essential to Ember's success. Now WoF was buffed for short duration builds but is still bad with long duration builds. It needs to be good with long duration builds as well.
Also why is that mod setup bad?
The setup is considered bad due to the efficiency of recasting vs maintaining. It's a p42w build vs your damage steroid as needed thing. You'll notice since he called it trash it is also a case of elitist thinking.
Sorry for the dual headers. For some reason the forums are acting up.
The point remains that there is an imbalance in the skill for no reason. Either remove duration entirely so that it is no longer a point of contention or remove the toggle. Even if the toggle is removed it still leaves WoF in a better place than it was before. Quite frankly many of us would have been satisfied with the 5 targets at initiation and target prioritization.
FB needs the ability to perform it's job without some arbitrary coding designed to make enemies avoid it. Seriously DE? That has to be arguably the most atrocious mechanic that was ever implemented for any skill.
-
screaming about toggling aside. What should I build for in Ember then? Short duration or long one?
Short as it is more cost effective/damage. Activating WoF newly procs 5 hits instantaneously and therefore if you want optimum damage out of it you activate/deactivate immediately, lather rinse and repeat casting accelerant and FB inbetween as necessary.
-
As a point to note here in trying to figure out an appropriate balance point. Rotation C is where the final rewards come from and would therefore be the most logical point to hinge this on. Going extra rounds is a matter of choice and subsequent danger is a consequence of said choice and the burden of the player to let skill determine their survival chance.
Also another thing to take into account in these talks is once Raids are implemented DE has stated that it will be player skill that allows them to acquire any rewards therein and it will be so difficult that many are expected to be unable to accomplish the task, thus I would surmise that raid rewards not be counted in the discussion as they are not meant to be acquirable by all players.
On the issue of percentages yes they will be able to scale appropriately per level of content however I feel that EHP has a more effective way to further survivabilty due to the fact that without a healer or massive health orbs ala Nekros our resident Front line frames are at a severe disadvantage when our stated goal is to allow them to tank in some form or fashion. The way EHP works allows said frames to ensure they are able to stay in the thick of things, The problem comes when dealing with higher and higher levels of enemies and more and more frequent spawns of said enemies.
I am amenable to the idea of a Rhino skin implemented that uses a damage cap/hits ideal like the nullifier's bubble and feel like that would be the quite possibly the most beneficial idea to ensure that people utilizing IS have that innate survivability without going into broken territory via any means.
On the matter of that IS that scales from health shields and HP(we never included pwr str in that conversation, or at least Ronyn and I never did)
as sanj66 stated via so many mods it would be almost guaranteed to be able to create an IS that enemies throughout the star chart would fail to break always. However, enemies in higher levels would absolutely wreck said IS if it was not given a substantial boost in it's value. Some have suggested the 12600 figure from my total inclusion of shields health and armor. Unfortunately I simply cannot come to an agreement on that number by any means since in that proposal we also attempt to implement DR for IS which again feels broken easily.
So thus at this juncture in all our talks regarding various iterations, the one I find the least faulty or exploitable is the IS that requires X number of hits to collapse which would in essence guarantee you that tankiness for a certain period of time unless mistakes were made by the player with regards to management of the is lifetime. The only issue I can see at all with it is the inherent synergy of the Iron Shrapnel mod. To be honest, with any change to IS and it's function I feel that the Iron Shrapnel mod would need to go or have it's effect placed on approximately a minute cooldown.
-
I'm going to say right now that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for snipers that a unit can make not only himself, but everything else nigh immune to it.
Most of us don't even want to be 'accommodated' to. We just don't want to be hindered unreasonably when the game already disadvantages players with slow firing weapons by sending hordes. It is already almost mandatory to mod a Shred or a Metal Auger on snipers. In the end, our only real saving grace is our 'overkill' damage coupled with the accuracy.
A Nullifier then comes into play and sucks in all that 'overkill' damage down to 400. I can reach 400 damage with just a Serration on Vectis. Meanwhile, weapons that don't hit the 100 break point get their 'damage' buffed to 100. Some High RoF weapons break the 400 break point incredibly easily, getting the best of both worlds. That's a nice cushion for high RoF weapons, but where's the cushion for low RoF weapons? And I can't even use my 'overkill' damage against the other enemies because for some reason, this high priority target that spawns rather often and has nigh miniboss status can make everyone else strong against snipers.
In order not to waste my damage, I have to pop into the bubble, risking death from one shots and CC all the while, take a shot at the Nullifier, and run out, effectively losing the range specialty of snipers. By then it's better to just bring a Boltor Prime since the sniper niche is so disadvantaged to be in that bringing one is a liability rather than an asset. A Boltor Prime does the same job better, safer, faster and gives me more viable options, especially when you bring Nullifiers into play.
Come on, this is just being incredibly mean to anybody plays snipers. There's nearly no reason at all to use sniper when you strip away all their advantages by throwing ONE unit in play. If this in an attempt to shake up our strategies, you aren't really shaking up our tactics, you're just making us deviate to the already dominant Boltor Prime, Soma Prime strategy. And consequently, make anyone who invested heavily into low RoF weapons very unhappy.
Something about them has to change. Something about enemy design as a whole also has to change.
Oh, and it would help out a lot if they didn't one shot us so often so we have more room of error to do our stuff.
this
-
1. No honestly in a FFA setting there should be no benefit for speed running(make that it's own Tactic for varieties sake)
FFA should be just that everyone does things how they want to by any means they choose. That way newer players are not upset at a loss of exp if they need to be more careful or decide to try stealth for example.
2. Let me get back to you. Will update this post periodically and simply post update notices via new posts linked to this one.
3. Absolutely the more ninja the action the better ^^ This I feel might very well push diversity and reinforce doing really cool things.
-
Added Mag's boosts to the OP!
Genin I'll be getting to you and your compatriots Excal ideas later today. If possible, could you please list their names as well so that I can also give them credit for all of your ideas.
kk Credit added to my OP on Excal.
-
Pardon I see new things I want to reply to after having commented on posts, it does not allow me to add quotes in after I post a response only prior to and most of the time thoughts pop in afterwards not while scanning things.
-
20m isn't enough range for you? What's a "staple frame" in your opinion?
20m isn't enough to REP FARM with is what I think he is intimating there.
20 m is in fact fine along with it's new target prioritization effect. The only thing that kills WOF atm is the inability to build for duration without destroying the rest of your build due to energy costs being prohibitive in a non efficiency build.
And the things some call a downside for FB are actually very useful if you have a given comp. I will leave it to you guys to work that one out as some will call it an exploit and others will simply say SYNERGY ^^
The Rhino Syndrome
in Warframes
Posted
Agreed
Not everyone but enough of us. The only ones who don't are the ones that don't want to put in the work to get said MR.