SneakyErvin
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Posts posted by SneakyErvin
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1 hour ago, MaxTunnerX said:
Goddamnit, too bad my trolling doesnt work nowadays (not that I even play at all after the recent updates lmao), but its a good thing that shield gaters and normal people are on the same boat right now (more shields = better).
Let's just hope it isnt on a boat in the english channel.
*badum-cha*
Too early?
As to the OP. If I bless you at any point in time you are welcome and thank you for the thank you. I dont expect any thanks ever, whether it be due to relay blessings or something during a mission, or for just being in my unholy glorious presence in general. It is just my humble nature.
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Dagath is forgettable to me for the same reason so many other frames are forgettable these days. And that reason is, none of them is Kullervo.
That said, Dagath is a wonderful caster frame. I still love my extremely tanky Death Knight that dooms everything, slashes it with flying scythes and beats the enemy up with dead hor... kaithes. While providing an abundance of health and energy orbs thanks to my subsume choice Fractured Blast.
1+2+3+4 and repeat. The perfect rotation frame.
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18 minutes ago, quxier said:
I don't mean to literally spend 1k$ "just because". I meant let her calculate if she would still want to pay more money for the same goods.
Say, now she buy pack for 100$ that give you 2100 plat (I've changed values just for simplicity of calculations). Let's say that she earns 50k$ per year. That's 0,2% of hear yearly income. That's not even 1%. That's pocket change.
Now take income per year from other country. Now she earns 12k$. That 100$ becomes ~400$.
But that isnt something that should concern DE, not one bit, since it isnt realistic. DE is in the end located in Canada, the prices need to be set in a fashion so it makes ends meet for them. They are for instance expected to pay that 50k a year and not the 12k a year to an employee.
Here in sweden for someone with even a low paying job $100 would be nothing in a year (if we dont include a need to support others). For me $100 would be nothing even if it was on a monthly basis, and that would be with a low paying job. Say I'd get $1500 (well below avarage or a part time job with avarage pay) after tax, I'd still be able to save around $600 per month since my expenses are so low. Food+rent+electricity+internet comes out at around $800 for me in a month, it gets slightly higher during march, since the new rent comes around at that point, with some adjustments for jan-march on that bill, so that month my expenses are likely $900. Still even with that I could spend on WF and still save around $500.
I could technically get away with 12k per year and still manage to spend 100 on WF a few times per year without feeling it impacting me.
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20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:
Ok so I was wrong, THIS is our disconnect
Yes, the aesthetics ARE dieselpunk. Both the visual aesthetics (mixing the grungy interwar and WW2 industrial flavor with elements of the fantastical) and the thematic aesthetics (a rise of fascism and an average citizen living through hardships of the great depression contrasted with pulp fiction and adventure narratives), that is what Dieselpunk is. That is what it means. Getting hung up on "oh this is anachronistic, it's three months more advanced than what G.I. Steve was assigned on the beaches of Normandy" is looking at EVERY punk genre completely wrong, to say nothing of dieselpunk specifically
No the aestethics arent dieselpunk, the aestethics of WH40k is dark gothic with a splash of brutalism thrown in. You can see this on anything from the smaller vehicles all the way up to their capatial ships and planet killers when it comes to the human factions (including chaos). And when we look to the theme of the humans, it isnt about hardship, it is simply life of those born on IG homeworlds. In reality the imperium is based on a fusion between ancient greece and the "holy" roman empire. Where you are born into a "state" and either stay home to maintain it for generations or sign up for the state army to fight for the overall "kingdom", and the roman part comes in with how the inner workings of the imperium is set up regarding phobia, heresy, belief, doctrine etc.
And it isnt that the tech is a few months more advanced. It is decades upon decades and centuries. Diselpunk is based on WW1-WW2 or there around. WW1 was over 100 years ago by now and WW2 is soon 80 years in the past. We still do not have laser weapons (or plasmas or meltas) in our day and age, we dont have a widespread use (barely any) of weapons with caseless ammo, we do not have anything but basic grenades etc. In 40k the faction you claim to be dieselpunk has all of that in widespread use, things like both plasma and melta grenades aswell as this finicky thing called a Vortex grenade (caution: use at your own risk). Ontop of that they have real cybernetics, from small things like fingers and hands all the way to the replacement of most of a body. All this also uses computers, advanced computers for targetting etc. when attached to an eye for instance. In addition to those things the IG also makes use of what could best be described as Sentienls from WF, that also allows the owner to connect to it with a highly advanced shared interface. Energy shields is also another thing that the IG makes use of, not for the common trooper obviously, but still available all the same.
Heck, the (human) tech is so advanced in WH40k that it is seen as coming from the tech god Deus Machina/Omnissiah, whom apparently exsists as much as the gods of chaos and those of the other factions, like Gork, Mork, Khaine or the extremely old and powerful C'Tan (plural).
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On 2024-04-21 at 6:48 PM, Nero.DMC said:
https://youtu.be/DnoFAbAbH7A?si=I4ssrLtaD0tpKOBs&t=804
Clearly you dont know what Saryn can do.Dante has never even been close to what Saryn can do, and detonating Saryn spores is much much faster than DV DV Tragedy.
for the 99999999999999999999999999999999999999th time NOBODY SAYS DANTE IS WEAK HE IS ANNOYING TO PLAY WITH LOS ON TRAGEDY FOR NO REASON AT ALL.
The reason nobody complains about DV is we understand why DV needs LoS its a marking ability, a damage dealing ability that does not depend on anything else to be used.
Tragedy is fundamentally diferent, tragedy requires: 2 dark verse casts, enemies that currently have statuses (to deal any meaningful damage) -> its a detonator, detonators should not have LoS, RN you need LoS in 2 different points in time to kill any enemy with DV DV -> Tragedy wich is dumb af given how a LOT of weapons can outdps Dante and other frames can outdps Dante prenerf, so we got the annoying part with the excuse of balance when he was never that strong to begin with and LoS does not really balance him at all, he is still almost as strong as prenerf, he is JUST ANNOYING
That is a very terrible video to use if you want to make a case for Saryn. It also shows you keep up little with what changes go into the game overall, and that you dont actually watch or understand what you watch in something like the video you provide.
It is for instance not "what Saryn can do" in that video. It shows the broken state of Dual Ichor at the time of that video, which was fixed around 2 months ago or 2 months after that video went live. In addition to that Saryn adds practically nothing to the performance of Dual Ichor in that video, you can see that by the KPS produced in those 10 minutes. It adds up to 2.5 KPS per second, which with an avarage Dual Ichor at the time was pretty normal stats no matter the frame, you just had to know how influence worked. I consistently reached the 2.5 KPS with Revenant for crying out loud, and when I used Kullervo it would push to 2.8 aswell as 3.0 at times.
And saying Dante hasnt been close is hilariously wrong, since a full caster playstyle can maintain 2.2 KPS unless the map is horribly set up with bad flow, the same KPS goes for Dagath with a full caster playstyle. And I have no clue why you keep saying "detonating spores". All that does is spread them, you still need to wait for the ticks to kill (which is also limited to 3 instances per target unless you specifically spam 1 on an enemy), so no lol, it isnt faster than 334 on Dante which effectively kills in those few seconds of casting the rotation on a room of enemies. Even if you add more DV to mark more of a room before detonating you kill faster than spores ever will.
And you say it isnt about him being weak or dealing low damage then all of a sudden you weave in how other frames and weapons deal better damage? Like uhm make up your mind?
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1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:
Kevlar armor, radio backpacks deliberately modeled after the SCR300, heavy machine guns based on the M2 Browning and the MG131, Guard tech can be recharged in campfires which is a reference to the British soldiers making tea on the battlefield in WW1 and 2. Oh and let's not forget deliberate callbacks to WW2 with the famous quotes of Chenkov (Stalin) and Macharius (mashup of Alexander the Great and Patton)
But apparently the very existence of lasers disqualifies anything and everything from being dieselpunk, sure
You are at this point throwing all of the tech out the window and base "diselpunk" on aestethics. Dieselpunk didnt come up with the aestethics, it just means that 40k (in some parts) are inspired by the same thing that inspired the visuals of Dieselpunk. I'm not even sure which game you refer to where you talk about Guard Tech recharging in campfires.
And no lol, it isnt just the lasers, it is the superior technology overall. You go soley by the look, I'm talking about the actual tech of the whole universe. Even your aestethic angle went out the window when you used Cadia as an example of dieselpunk when it is at worst modern era military aestethics, with some future soldier concepts thrown in.
I'm just gonna ask you one thing. Is your 40k and IG knowledge tied to Darktide possibly? It would likely explain the campfire comment, since it is the only game I can think of that might have such a mechanic. Because if it is, you might wanna read up on the lore that stretches back to the uhm... 70's or so.
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I dont see the monetization angle, since the way these systems are set up I see no incentive to spend on more things. I only see a slight incentive to getting of my ass and finish some of the things I've saved since I wanted them in order to use them. But getting more items to add to the pile I see zero reason to, since that would just mean I'd end up with the things I want to use less, since those things I dont wanna use but suddenly get would start competing for the "guaranteed" pulls in those systems.
But hey, if you like shooting yourself in the foot who am I to judge, we all have our kinks and fetiches.
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58 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:
I'm thinking this here is where our disconnect is. Where I come from the term "dieselpunk" refers to the tech level, not the literal year on the calendar. So...
It is often tied to the era of the tech level. WH40k however is far beyond that tech level.
58 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:Your average Imperial Guardsman is absolutely using Dieselpunk technology. While you are correct the 40k franchise uses multiple tech levels blended together on the whole, I specified the Imperial Guard, they get NONE of the advanced "Raygun Gothic" stuff and are stuck with boxy, pseudo-WW2 looking Dieselpunk tech
I forget why we are even talking about this. I think someone said Warframe had dieselpunk in it, which I objected to
You are wrong on that. The most common weapon used by the Imperial Guard as a whole is the Lasgun, with specialty gunners making use of either Melta or Plasma Guns. Sgts tend to use a Laspistol together with a Power Sword. And Sentinels tend to either have a Las/Plasma/Auto Cannon, a Heavy Bolter or a Multimelta. The reason some Imp Guard units look like they have WW2 tech is because they arent strong enough to carry the weaponry on their person, so make use of "WW2" gun platforms to utilize what is otherwise hand carried Space Marine Devastator/Longfang weaponry like Las/Plasma/Auto Cannons, Rocket Launchers, Heavy Bolters and Multimeltas.
And even if we were to look at the autogun that is more common on "reserve" Imperial Guard, it is far beyond dieslpunk levels as they use caseless ammunition. This is before even considering the more advanced cooling and optics available, along with muzzle velocity rate of fire and other things compared to diesel era and beyond guns. However, what takes most away from IG being dieselpunk is that the most used and easiest to manufacture gun is the Lasgun. Meaning the technological level is high even for the most basic weapon.
We discuss it since you objected to WF having dieselpunk while saying WH40k has it.
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Just now, TARINunit9 said:
It's fairly normal these days, actually. Game merchandise. Activision and EA do it, Valve used to do it, Korean f2p mobile games do it. And Warframe does it
The $170 price tag is sadly also normal. The overhead on a resin statue sculptor isn't cheap, so a lot of that price tag is just making sure the company can break even
Yeah I just mean I cant see how it impacts the experience of the game. "Boo-hoo! I cant afford the Toy that does nothing for me in the game". It's a collectible to get if you really like the game and really like collectibles tied to things you like. And yeah, the tag seems high since the price to make them is likely also high in the first place. I personally think it is great that companies/bands do these things. I'd kill for a Norse Stone Troll sculpture back in the day when I played Dark Age of Camelot, or a little Kobold maybe. Got so happy when Amon Amarth had a Surtur sculpture availble through a limited edition release of the Surtur Rising album.
One thing I wonder about what was said is the 10% of the players funding the game. Does that account for only active players or total players. Since that is a huge difference in the end.
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36 minutes ago, quxier said:
I see new "Mesa toy" that costs me 170$. What I can buy for that? If we are talking about games, I can buy 2-3 newish games and much more (20?) some older games. Some other stuff? I can buy buy enough food for month without keeping in mind every single price (of course not some stupid high priced food). My new laptop costed 4x Mesa toy price.
Some of that 90% players just see price for anything, they see all changes (e.g. massive nerfs to frames), they laugh and they continue to grind (till they can). Who is going to pay so much money for stuff that can change or is just "meh"?
I'm just really curious what a seperate collectible has to do with the game and the pricing in the game. Like I cant really follow that thought process at all. Do you complain about the price of an Alien movie bluray being too high when you go out and grab a $100 Alien collectible statue? 🤷♂️
40 minutes ago, quxier said:But how many years she has been spending that 1k$? We have 11th anniversary. So even 100$ per year is "not that much". And how much she earns per year? You know if you earn e.g. 50k per year, then 1k$ is NOTHING. You earn 50k per year? Ok, pay few thousands PER YEAR. That would be more "raw experience".
"Raw experience" refers to how much she gets out of it per dollar as opposed to if she had a discount. The amount spent doesnt matter. $1k is only nothing if you have the money and want more, if you've gotten what you want the $1k is enough for the time being no matter what you earn. Spending for the sake of spending seems rather uhm idiotic. It would also kinda scew the "raw experience" since you'd spend on things you neither want nor need.
$1k is also roughly comparable to a sub based game over the same period, and even comes off cheaper with more bang per buck compared to a sub based game. 8 years of WoW roughly cost me $1300. So being able to pay $1k in order enjoy a game throughout 11 years seems rather fair and indicates the game has a good F2P setup.
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21 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:
By "punk" are you talking about the gangsters and hackers from Cyberpunk stories? Because while they are indeed a pretty critical component of Cyberpunk specifically, they're treated as largely optional in other punk genres.
No. Punk as in the "sociopolitical" sense, the marginalized common people if you wanna call it that, the working class etc. Even if we mark this off as optional, you still arent bound to a specific technological state in 40k to call it any type of -punk. Shadowrun for instance is cyberpunk since the tech in that universe is of that level, even if it has fantasy races and spells thrown in there aswell.
WH40k isnt really defined by any certain tech level, it is just so very advanced and uses several different levels of what is considered technology, from basic fuel, warp tech on the supernatural level, super advanced bio-tech, super advanced nano-tech, cyber-tech that makes cyberpunk look like stoneage in comparison and so on. And that is only if we look at what is achieved by man and disregard all aliens.
It also takes place 40000 years into the future, so just misses the mark of steam, disel and cyber- punk by 37-38000 years or so.
A similar setting that could be considered a punk universe would be Mutant Chronicles/Space or Warzone if you wanna call it that. A universe where man has achieved very advanced technology but got set back to what we have now or earlier for the most part due to an ancient evil returning from beyond Pluto and our dimension. An evil that returns each 1000 years after its previous defeat. The difference in the era that the universe takes place is that this time one of the many corporations that rule Sol have come up with technology immune to the corruption of this Dark Legion of ancient gods and their dark symmetry. Giving them access to advanced weaponry, including people transfered into A.I and robotic bodies.
But due to the constant fighting between the corporations the technology isnt willingly shared. The only real way for others to make use of this technology is by sending skilled fighters from their corporation to the multireligious mystical and magic wielding Brotherhood to fight as Doom Troopers alongside them and other corporation Doom Trooper duos, including the highly advanced Cybertronic. And while the members of Cybertronic are immune to corruption both in body and mind, it is looked upon with scepticism by many, including more orthodox parts of the Brotherhood, considering it potential witchcraft and possibly a case of being in league with the Dark Legion.
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21 hours ago, Rathalio said:
It's not the same quantities but still the same rewards. DA isn't gatekeeping anything. DA also needs a reason to exist. It's normal that it's more efficient to do the more difficult mission. Just like when you built a good and efficient farming warframe & weapons and get your stuff overall faster than the average player. Being able to complete archimedea is more efficient and faster when you are ready to do it. Yet you can still access to everything from this game mode without even playing it. (Apart from a one time funky ship decoration, yes.)
DA is gate keeping since it is effectively a time gate. If you consider the numbers I posted it is alot of missed shards that the player will never be able to catch up on. If shards were available 24/7 and the farm simply resulted in time spent, the method of getting them wouldnt matter. Getting them faster or slower would eventually still net you the same amount. But with the gate on the content, the rewards end up being different between the activities. This isnt like jumping into disruption and being able to run rota C for hours to get an item quicker in comparison to the guy that needs to jump out earlier, because there the player playing shorter will still end up with the same amount if he plays a bit more than the other guy.
Though I dont think cells should be as awarding as DA. What I think is that DA should be set up differently, so someone can do it slower through more runs in a week as opposed to someone that can do it all in one run.
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20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:
"Real robot" is a flavor of anime that means "mecha, but portrayed more realistically and grittier than Power Rangers." A common example is the original Mobile Suit Gundam
It would help if you actually knew what you were talking about before you tried to critique me on this. 40k deliberately draws from multiple inspirations for each individual army, let alone the franchise as a whole. The Cadian/Imperial Guard art style is absolutely based around diesel punk sensibilities, drawing references from World War 2 era tanks, a slight but still noticable flavor of pulp fiction, and the eschewing of the more fanciful rayguns wherever possible in favor of tried and tried, boring but practical gasoline and bullets
Yes it makes more sense when you write it "Real Robot", not that easy to catch onto what someone means with just run on words. And yeah, they certainly have flavor from that genre, but they are overall just themed around japan, pretty much like GWs space version of the Nippon kingdom in WHFB of old.
Also no one says that 40k doesnt draw inspiration from multiple sources, but that doesnt make the faction that thing. the whole -punk genre is based on the idea of punk, not just that it uses a tech level of a sort. Not that the imperium tech levels would clock in on any form of punk really, except possibly arcanepunk due to how FTL travel works in WH40k, which simply put uses magic or the arcane since it uses the warp. But even that would be a stretch.
Cadia is one of many regiments within the IG, they are based on modern/slight future warfare. Just as Valhallans are based on the WW2 era, Krieg WW1, Rough Riders Mongolians of old (which funnily enough White Scars also are) and then you have regiments based on european Royal Guards aswell as regiments based on "Barbarians" and "Native" tribes. Plus you have Catachan, that are practically based on the stereotype of the run of the mill Vietnam G.I Joe Jungle Fighter. You also have straight movie references in some special units, like Schaeffer's Last Chancers, that involve anything from the Dirty Dozen to Predator references.
And if you wanna look at the tanks and think that aestethics are enough to call it dieselpunk or whatever you want, well that isnt how it works. For instance, none of the vehicles used by the IG are made by the IG, everything originates from the Adeptus Mechanicus, where the vehicles are just advanced far beyond what would be expected in dieselpunk. Some IG regiments build their own, but it is all based on Mechanicus tech, those IG regiments just have the rights to build them because they are capable of it. Otherwise most is created on forge worlds or forge vessels.
Like you said in the earlier post, Orks are Mad Max. You have a very simplified view on the Orks, since that inspiration really only applies to the side game of Gorkamorka, which is practically Mad Max with Orks (Gorkers and Morkers) and Humans set on a very specific planet in the universe. Outside of that Orks are more a take on the great migration, which is why the biggest klan is called Goffs. But the Orks also draw inspiration from WW2 and many other things just as the imperium and chaos does. You for instance have mad nazi scientist experiements made real in the ork klans, like their jump pack troops, you also have straight up biker gang vibes, while the space marines instead give you a knight or Dredd vibe with their bike units.
Even Necromunda that could be considered cyberpunk is a stretch. The use of cybernetics is just not used widely enough by the common ganger. In reality those that do use an excess of cybernetics come from outside, from the rich part of the spire cities. Plus it is also mostly just regular gang wars and not really an uprising against a higher authority. Since they'd likely be seen as heretics and purged by the local inquisitor at that point for questioning the governer appointed by the naz... imperium.
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48 minutes ago, Rathalio said:
I mean a lot of people are frustrated to see they can't do it and claim all the rewards. Although at the same time they are not missing any special loot, they can do 2 more netracells instead, same rewards. Of course, it's a bit better to do deep archimedea, but the game mode needs to have a reason to exist too. It's still the same rewards though, and I think this reality is really overlooked in the complaints unfortunately.
But it isnt the same rewards.
5x Netracell = 5 rewards.
1x EDA = 5 rewards
3x Netracell = 3 rewards
3+5 = 8
3+5 =/= 5
In 3 weeks that woul be 24 vs 15 rewards, 6 weeks 48vs30, 12 weeks 96vs60 and in a year 416vs260 rewards. And that is just rewards in general with us ignoring the increased rate that EDA provides tau and arcanes.
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16 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:
40k has many flavors. Orks are Mad Max, Tyranids are biopunk, Space Marines are space knights, Tau are real robot, and the Imperial Guard are absolutely dieselpunk
Warhammer 40k is what is refered to as Techno Fantasy. For it to be any form of punk would require the setting to line up with a single type of "dystopia", otherwise there wouldnt be a punk angle. The dystopia of WH40k is rooted in what would be Gothic Horror of the divine existential kind, living with the knowledge that ancient gods actually do exsist and threaten your everyday life. Both directly from those gods and their followers aswell as from the threat of those that try to hold those gods at bay. Sometime to the point where planets and systems are completely purged. Ontop of that everyone lives in a time of constant war between different alien races, rooted in xenophobia, pure evil or the simple want/need to consume and assimilate, or conquoring for the sake of conquoring.
This is why tyranids arent biopunk. They are just aliens that have evolved the way they have. They are also not manmade, so not based on a technological level as such, which they'd very likely be if they were to be considered biopunk. Tau are also not robots, those are aliens aswell that use highly advanaced mechs and unmanned drones etc. You might be thinking of Nekrons, those are a race of mechanical created by anceint gods that also walk among them iirc.
Imperial Guard themselves are of whatever base technological level that their homeworld is. But when recruited into the imperium they are all using the same equipment for the most part, of levels far beyond what would be dieselpunk. Including Plasma, Laser and Melta weapons, along with power swords, force weapon and other things of either technological or mystical nature.
As to the OP. The periodic table is likely the same as ours with a few small additions. It is still based on iron, argon, oxygen, water, uranium, gold and so on. Then the elements are likely create from those elements depending on what the desired effect is. A nuke is probably still a nuke all the same but with better technology needing less materials for a bigger boom.
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1 hour ago, spider_enigma said:
Can you not? Thanks.
Its meant to be hard by forcing you out of your comfort zone, its not a mandatory game mode, you can go play literally anything else in the game. If we made it only stuff you owned people would sell everything they had if they could to optimize the hell out of the mode. People just want to cheese the mode rather then do the intended and collect everything for mastery
Go back to complaining about line of sight OR start building weapons.
But it doesnt succeed in doing that at all.
I've stayed in my comfort zone all 4 weeks without any trouble. The thing that has impacted my choices have been based on the 4 personal modifications, the missions and their respective modifications. I dislike the RNG itemization since it doesnt really do anything in the end since we are always able to pick one thing freely, be it a weapon or a frame, or ignoring a modifier if frames/weapons are already fully to our liking.
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20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:
By being able to always pick the strongest, most invincible frames paired with the most strongest, most deadly weapons?
How would that not make the mode easier to do? Of course it will make it easier. You get to freely take all of your busted, overpowered gear every week. You know what people do with that freedom already? They play the game at levelcap. Where do you go from there? Levelcap++?
RNG isn't great, but it does reduce the amount that the above happens.
It wouldnt allow for that any more than the current system does since you'd still face a combination of 8 modifications per week that could wreck what you planned to bring. With others potentially restricting the effectiveness of what you can bring. And since it seems like we will always get some items we own (4th week and I still havent seen a category where I dont own anything) people can already game the system if they like and always have access to one free choice to circumvent the 4 modifications.
With 7-8 modification that can restrict your power across item classes would have a higher impact on how much it takes to trivialize the mode. Since you'd face 10-11 modifications per mission. Right now in order to trivialize things completely you need 1 decently matching weapon out of 9 to combine with the frame free of choice, or if you get one out of those desired frames you are free to pick the most powerful weapon you have access to instead.
It wouldnt really matter if you bring that OP gear if the week also penalizes it heavily through mods. If that OP weapon only produces 1% out of its total damage potential it will not trivialize things, and you are incentiviced to pick something more appropriate that works with the debuffs. Sure you will end up with lucky weeks, but that already occurs and is intended. I've had no real lucky week, yet each week has been trivialized by that single free choice and decent item pulls. That you bring up levelcap is completely irrelevant since the regular game does not penalize us further, it gives you full access to the power you pick, which EDA wouldnt except on lucky weeks.
20 hours ago, PR1D3 said:LMAO you honestly think this is better? You're still going to get the same complaints now. If you honestly think WF players are going to modify their builds to accommodate some modifier you're fooling yourself. You would still get floored by all the comments of "you're punishing me for using x,y,z", "you're invalidating my build and not respecting my investment", "you're forcing me to do something I normally wouldn't", and "I'm getting punished and locked out of rewards cause I refuse to play the game in the specific way DE wants". I would bet money you will still get those complaints and a few comments saying you're a S#&$ game dev who doesn't understand what true "fun" is.
I dont give a flying #*!% if it reduces complaints or not, it is about making the mode better and more interesting. Building around things is more interesting than getting poop-shooter X that you'll just grab for the sake of research and not use once throughout the missions. This is the first week I've actually used all my 3 weapon pulls, since I got Boar, Despair and Hate, all solid and useful when used as opposed to other weeks where I've used 1 out of 3 weapons mostly and the rest have just been research sticks.
Week 1 Sibear+Rev for normal, swapped out Rev for Kullervo in EDA to just 1HK mechs.
Week 2 Laetum and whatever, free picked Dante to kill everything and keep everyone immortal on boss.
Week 3 Dual Keres Prime and Kohm, free picked Nezha due to -75% skill duration, which does little for him and is also semi beneficial on his new mod.
Week 4 Boar, Despair, Hate, free picked Inaros due to being able to move adds away from boss as needed to avoid unwanted detonations. Could have picked Dante aswell to just be a OG bot on boss with some dps uptime.
It isnt exactly a good system when 2/3 picks are completely forgotten and just there as some point increase for rewards. I'd rather see a system that limits whole classes but leaves you with choices you might actually use due to not being targetted by the debuff penalties. I'm not gonna sit down and pick up all weapons because they might pull for EDA at some point, since when they do I'll likely have 1 choice anyways that I'll use, with the other weapon simply there as research no matter how modded it is. And if it is based on giving you some items you own as guarantees, there is no way in Hel I'll water down those pulls by waste of space weapons.
20 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:Those are good suggestions erv for sure, but they won't necessarily give you incentive to diversify your arsenal as much as an RNG system will.
I also don't see small buffs to random things having much of an impact.
I think people are failing to take advantage of operator, gearwheel, companion, and the mech. All those are way more useful than any small buff will give.
You won't always have those, but between those, RNG, and one modifier you should get a competent setup.
Use armor strip from helminth or unairu. Specters and companion DPS.
There are some bad weapons out there, but there's also a lot of good weapons being ignored and a randomizer is really the only way to draw attention to those things.
The problem is that the randomizer wont bring attention to those ignored weapons, since if they are ignored people wont own them. This isnt Duviri where people get to use them when pulled, this is where you get to use them if pulled and you already own them. And I dont think anyone will rush off to build some randomly pulled weapon for the week to test it in EDA.
You make good points regarding gear. It is also why I'd like to see more modifications instead of randomized loadouts, since modifications could result in a higher chance to end up without access to the gearwheel/operator etc.. Which increases the challenge overall aswell, since you'd have no access to ancient healer, or operator based armor strip/self res and so on. I mean yeah it already is part of the system, but seeing it more frequently would have more impact than a few random weapon you wont use anyways.
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1 minute ago, Gaxxian said:
I would LOVE those modifiers without any RNGear involved.
And they are so simple to come up with aswell, so no idea how they went "woosh!" past DE. I could fart out a whole list of them considering these few took maybe 5 seconds all in all to come up with.
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27 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:
Which people would have immediately trivialized and turned into paste.
To keep this on topic for OP, this is what Warframe has that DRG does not: rampant powercreep and imbalance. The gear RNG, forced gear, adaptation, attenuation, immunity, nullification, overguarding, etc. are all DE's attempts at bringing the player down to a baseline where a challenge can be created. DRG doesn't need to do that because the player is already at that baseline. DRG works because it is already balanced. They can afford to make the gameplay "more rewarding" because the gameplay is already rewarding. They can put in little boons like Critical Weakness and not screw up the balance of the game or erode the challenges they want to present. Warframe cannot. That's really all there is to it. Warframe could do the exact same things as DRG if players were consistently powerful and predictable. Until that happens we'll never get a challenge that isn't in some way artificial.
How? It isnt like people would be able to pick their weekly modification pulls freely out of a massive pool, it would be 8 random modifications instead of 4 RNG items + 4 modifications. So it wouldnt get more trivialized than now, since you'd never know which combos would be present during the week until that week comes around. The simple part of having 1 free choice now is enough to trivialize the current system and likely far easier than it would be to trivialize it with 4 more random modifications, that could impact those current choices that trivialize every week. The modifications do far more than the RNG choices. The modifications along with the mission type at hand are the only things I've considered so far when it comes to picking that free trivializing choice.
Our power could easily be reigned in by punishing modification and do so far more consistently than pulling weapons from a pool of hundreds upon hundreds of different options. Those punishing mods would come around more often and in greater combination due to the pools being significantly smaller than that of weapons. They could also force certain modification types to always roll each week.
Plus we dont know the ins and out of the current RNG system, how forgiving it is, if it gives you atleast one weapon family you own per category or not. I'm yet to end up wth a week where I dont own atleast 1 item in each. Which would also make the system pointless since players can avoid heavy performance loss by removing weapons families/frames. With modifications they wouldnt be able to remove and avoid, since they'd still need atleast 7/8 active for "full" rewards from the mode and the mods are tied to the mode and not what you own or doesnt. If they can remove weapons/frames and be left with "OK" options in their mind, then the system serves no purpose. And if it doesnt guarantee atleast an item per category that you own, well then arbitrary RNG that does nothing for balance simply locks players out from obtaining rewards. It doesnt reduce their power during the week since they dont even have the option to use that downscaled power, since they dont own the item in the first place.
edit: Just want to add. I'm currently in the process of upgrading all my owned melee weapons. So if atleast one of those gets pulled there wont really be anything to the mode that could be considered difficult. Since I have enough frames, which I use as my weekly free choice that enables melee well enough to make any combination trivialize the mode. I could potentially turn up SoL if it can pull only things I dont own, but at that point it depends on how many categories I miss out on in a pull. If 1, ok, the system pushes me to use what is handed to me while I can ignore that pull I dont own, but if is is 2, well then there is no reason to worry, since I wont hit EDA anyways for max rewards, so might aswell use more of what I want than that which is pulled for me.
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2 hours ago, Silenzeio said:
Gotta love how OP has no responses in this thread, even a single comment about their parenting choice to sit a 9yo down to watch a Warframe stream.
I've bisected many Corpus with my swords, decapitated many Grineer with guns and have committed various more war-crimes upon the enemies of the system.
You sure an M-rated game is appropriate watching material for your kid OP? Re-analyze yourself as a parent.Not to mention that if the kid has played WF he has also learned it is OK to sell your friends to the highest bidder even if their intent is to kill said "friend" for their valuebles. Plus, things considered as not-appropriate according to the Geneva Convention are really OK, such as the use of flechettes, death through fire, death through freezing among other wonderful ways to pass someone over to the great after, elysium, valhall, hell, heaven or just good 'ol maggot food.
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39 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:
In what game does it work like that? lol
Did you get the same amount of Shards for skipping Kahl missions? No.
Do you now get the same amount of Shards for not buying them from Bird-3? No.
Do you get the same number of Arcanes for only doing the first stage of a tricap? No.
Do you get the same kinds of Relics for only going to Rotation A? No.
Do you get the same amount of Credits for only doing low risk Index? No.
Do you get the same amount of Incarnon Adapters for only doing 5 tiers of the Circuit? No.
Do you get the same amount of rare Prime parts for only doing Intact Relics? No.
Do you get a Prodman poster for only staying for 30 minutes? No.
It's like there's a pattern.... 🤔
The difference is that none of those punish players differently through RNG behind a time gate. If you get a really bad EDA pull you will be locked out of the top rewards without you being able to do anything about it. And it isnt some skill tied to it either, it is simply the game telling you no, since you happen to miss items you wouldnt actively use in the mission anyways if you had them.
Kahl and all the others is/was the same for all. Incarnon Adapters for instance. If you get a bad pull you are only required to jump in and do a single rotation to get a new chance, all it costs you is some time. In EDA if things are really against you, you will miss out on the rewards for the week, soley due to arbitrary RNG that really adds nothing.
If EDA was done right it would have avoided RNG gear and instead had more modifiers you need to have active that proxy the bad item pulls. Enemies are immune to slash and puncture damage/staus, oh looks like Bo got more appealing. Enemies are immune to viral damage/status, new modding required. Explosive weapons deal 99% less damage. Held, Burst and Full-Auto weapons deal 99% less damage. Melee weapons deal 99% less damage. Melee range cannot be increased. Base crit chance is set to 0%. Base status chance is set to 0%. Melee attacks cost energy. Shooting costs energy. A nullification pulse surges you each 10 seconds. You are affected by magnetic (not the #*!%ing visual, and it could be blocked by utilizing the arcane). And so on. Things to incentivice exploring other options without a risk that it locks anyone out from rewards.
The things you picked didnt work with the modifiers imposed on you? Well try again since you have more items that might work. Right now it's "You dont have these items? Well then you wont get the highest reward". Or it means you can get the highest reward but end up being 100% useless to the rest of the group in the process by getting effectively carried.
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5 hours ago, helioth137 said:
ooooh! It's a buff, thanks for clearing that up, silly me, i thought, cause of the wording, that it was a debuff on each individual enemy.
I'm pumped I rolled a skana riven with +2.2 range, +110 crit dam, +110 heat, it's almost perfect for a melee influence build, but has the one big downside of -92% status duration, which might be an absolute number (as in, if it lasted 100 seconds before, it will only last 8 seconds now), but might not even be that bad. At any rate, it can still do amazing upfront crit damage, which is kind of more what the skana incarnon is about anyway.
Not sure what best combo for heat would be in order to still get electric, i guess radiation, or,
seeing as i'm armour stripping with cedo + double emerald shards, maybe even gass...
could use vazarin void snare/ cordon/ x to group them up then too, and deal "quadratic scaling damage" with both electric and gas.
Downside is it would be very weak against necramechs, but then i'd swap to lex incarnon with secondary outburst (:
Have any bright ideas except that?
With the evolution that grants you +9 combo on first hit, skana goes 12x at rocket speed.It could work with the -92% status, but it would severly cut all statuses and you are pretty much left with gas or blast in order to have electric free. It is possible that you wont get any ticks at all from the DoTs since they last 6 seconds and tick each second, but the riven cuts the duration down to 0.48 seconds. The pure damage from influence would still be intact though.
I would probably reroll the riven and hope to get something similar, but maybe with cold or electric instead of heat and no negative status duration. Electric would likely be most beneficial since it leaves you open to build for any combined status you like otherwise while still utilizing influence no matter which frame you play. Like if I play a frame where I use nourish or get viral elsewhere I tend to not want viral on my weapon aswell. Like my Hate on Saryn atm. Instead of two mods for viral she has an extra mod for more electric and one for more crit damage, while on my Kullervo Hate is modded for viral in those two slots. On Dual Ichor it doesnt really matter, since I need to get rid of the innate toxin on the weapon anyways to get electric free, so cold, toxin or electric works on the riven, since I need to spend 3 slots on elements either way.
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19 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:
Usage means exactly that: USAGE. As in taken into missions and used against enemies. Not ownage, which is seperated and as you point out is much more easily tracked
Well yes, but if something is forced on you it doesnt mean you use it out of free will. So that something gets increased usage stats from EDA results in misleading usage stats since they cannot see if you use it because you like it or simply because it is forced and you get points from it. In Duviri they can disregard usage stats on items where the item isnt also owned. With EDA that becomes impossible since we can only use what we own, so it doesnt manage to show why we use it. It is bad as it is with Duviri since you still have many cases where the usage doesnt mean you want to use it even if you own it, but atleast it can remove alot of the usage due to people not owning the items they use.
Also, we have to remember how shoddy WF usage data is. Specters for instance inflate your usage stats for all items that are part of that specter. Protea ended up on my top 5 list for 2023, even though I practically didnt play her at all outside of some Circuit. But since she is my specter her usage still managed to sneak into the top 5, even though I played several other frames far more actively throughout the year, yet she still nabbed the #5 spot. And I'm fairly sure she also stole the secondary weapon spot since the specter used Laetum for most of the year, while I used Furis actively most of the time after obtaining the incarnon on the first rotation it was available. I carried laetum with me for 5-10 minutes per week at most when killing the Archon.
My usage was Kullervo, Lavos, Citrine, Garuda Prime and Protea, where in reality I used Saryn, Frost, Atlas, Styanax and Khora, and potentially also Dagath more actively than Protea. However the specter of her heavily scewed the stats.
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21 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:
No it did not, i played Dante from day 1, it was FINE everyone i spoke to tought it was fine, it had LoS but it was NOT the same LoS that tragedy got, it was FAR FAR FAR more lenient. this issue never existed you are trying to make it up DV has always been fine stop making S#&$ up.
It did have the old LoS check system. A new system didnt get implemented until this patch for DV, at which point it got the improvements of current Tragedy. So if you were fine with that, you should be fine with what we have now across the board since both skills implement a system that is more reliant than any we've had before overall. So it is odd people didnt notice it on DV but all of a sudden did on Tragedy. The most odd part is people noted it on the improved Tragedy but never picked it up on DV for 2 whole weeks, even though improved Tragedy from the friday patch had practically no issues.
22 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Sure something players an control while they are moving on a mision, this has to be the dumbest thing you have said so far. How enemies move beside defence misions or survival misions is completely random from a player perspective.
No really it isnt random. All missions can be controlled. Non endless missions that move from DZ to EZ will have spawns infront of you as you move on, endless missions allow for full control, either by relying on spawn logic from survival (disruption for instance) or a mix between it and defense (excav, interception).
22 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:we all know it had LoS but it had super lenient LoS as i have told you 500 times already, you seem to just ignore the things i have told you over and over, DV LoS was always fine, it was never annoying, nobody complained about it and you made it up to distract ppl from the real argument that has nothing to do with dark verse. the reason it was in the patch notes its because the improvement to LoS was a think they made for every skill with LoS, so Dark Verse got it, but -->NOBODY COMPLAINED ABOUT DV LoS<-- if you cannot grasp that simple thing and stop bringing up DV just stop talking to me, i am all in for talking and discussion but if i wanted empty answers of stuff i have adressed multiple times i could go talk to my 3y old nephew.
But it didnt, since it was the skill that even got blocked by Dante himself. This could be tested by using another primer in the sim, prime things up with it, use tragedy with blocked view due to Dante and still see the blocked primed targets die on detonation. Going back to priming with DV with the same enemies blocked by Dante would result in them not getting "detonated" and only take the base damage of the skill, while still having no slash on them after detonation. Meaning DV never landed but Tragedy did. Since if DV had landed they'd still have slash on them since Tragedy would have never landed if it was blocked by Dante, they'd also have large chunks of their life removed from the dot itself, but only had minimal health removed due to the base damage of Tragedy landing.
That no one complained about DV is my whole point, since it means people complain about things before testing, as I described here, with simple tests done that showed which skill was actually the bottleneck, even in a fully open setting. People attributed a bug to a skill that did not have that bug after the friday fix.
Tragedy itself was never blocked by Dante etc. outside of the first day it had LoS. DV was blocked since day 1.
22 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:"Rivals weapons"? WOW, not even close, unless you have extremely bad weapons built, literally any decent weapon will outdps Dante pre nerf, Saryn explodes everything, she uses a weapon to DETONATE (remember that word) her DETONATION do not have LoS check, Dante's DETONATION comes from his 4, BUT his 4th has a LoS check wich is extremely bad for a DETONATION ability.
But it does rival weapons. I can maintain an easy 2.0+ kps with Rhino using Dark Verse spam. That is without burst damage available through Tragedy, since well... Rhino doesnt have that skill. And it is easier with Dante since he has access to Roar if you want to do the same as Rhino, but with the benefit of also having massive detonation burst to instantly wipe out large groups of enemies in 3 quick button taps. Saryn doesnt "DETONATE", she pops her spores and makes them spread, the enemy you spread them from dies to the weapon at that point, not the spores themselves and you need to attack the next enemy to speed up the killing and spread further beyond that, or wait for the spores to kill with their limited non-stackable-on-demand damage and spread them with miasma.
When Dante detonates he detonates, which means the mobs die there and then on demand. And this is while we conveniently forget his massive defense along with insane single target potential with weapons aswell. Because apparently Tragedy is the only thing Dante has in his whole kit.
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New Kuva and Tenet Weapon Teased for Dev Stream
in General Discussion
Posted
Overkilling things in half the charge time isnt an upgrade compared to just overkilling something excessivly more but also far slower? 🤷♂️
Vandal goes Pew! = target dead and overkilled.
Regular goes Peeeeew! = target dead and extra much overkilled. Kinda like the Sisters brother punching the corpse of the colonel "just to be sure".
As for weapons I'd like to see Kuvanized. Ack & Brunt, can I please have? I can see it now "Chokh Ehr Kuva Ack & Brunt Incarnon" with innate electric, so we can be true influencers for our fans in Sol! I'll even throw in a personal spectral axe in the deal!