SneakyErvin
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Posts posted by SneakyErvin
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2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:
With how intricate DE's data collection usually is, I would be very surprised if they can't figure out how to exclude Deep Archimedes from usage stats
It would be hard for them, since in the case of Deep people own the weapons used. So should they then exclude the items from usage stats when used in Deep since they may be used simply to grant points even if someone uses them regularly outside aswell? With Duviri it comes down to both owned and unowned items, so easier to spot why something is used or not since it will also have the owned/unowned flag probably.
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1 minute ago, 0_The_F00l said:
That's is one aspect of things that this will make obvious.
Like always I have multiple wrinkly layers on this , like a cabbage. (Unlike an opinion which is usually smooth and results in tears)
One thing I'd love to see would be "mission" rivens. Simply a mod or two or three you can slot on your frames that adds modifiers to a mission similar to maps in Path of Exile or Danger Room Chips in Marvel Heroes. Have them drop anywhere with different rarities then let us upgrade them and reroll them a limited amount of times, then after we've used them they are consumed. In return for negative modifications on a mission we'd recieve more loot, while some things seen as negative could be combined into positives given the correct loadout used with it, just like how it works with maps in PoE.
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Tying it to gear is bad bad bad bad bad bad bad, since the gear wont become better just because people start to use it. Having mission modifiers will however show DE that the gear that isnt used is crap, so they can adjust it instead of leaving it as is because "it is used this much!" due to people wanting more loot.
edit: The RNG pulls are already bad since they will just end up scewing usage stats, meaning the problem with terrible weapons still persist. I'd prefer that system gone and a multitude of extra modifications added for EDA for instance.
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1 minute ago, Venus-Venera said:
p2w makes sense now and is absolutely applicable these days.
Of course, someone can fantasize embarrassing fairy tales about F2P. but the fact is that new player has to waste more than year of his life to enjoy new content and not be constantly frustrated........THERE IS NO CATCH UP MECHANIC HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is still not P2W, that would just be Pay-to-Skip, since there is in the end no competition or objective need to catch up to anyone. And the "significant advantage" in this case comes from having played the game for a long time, so not positively through spending, and that "advantage" is over that new player, that would not gain an advantage over someone by paying. He'd just skip to get to whatever point it is he wants to go but faster. In the end it is also just subjective, since another new player wants to experience it all by playing and he isnt at a competative disadvantage by doing so, since there is no competition in the game. He might even opt to avoid public to experience as much as possible as he plays at his own pace.
I mean, I explained P2W in the post you quoted and you still completely miss the main parts of what makes something P2W instead of P2S.
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On 2024-04-18 at 1:48 AM, UnstarPrime said:
I'm definitely aware that different people sometimes seem to have different operational definitions of "pay-to-win". The reason I use that term the way I do is two-fold:
- In the vast majority of the interactions and reading I've done throughout my lifetime, the term pay-to-win has been used to refer to all types of games, whether single-player, multiplayer, etc. So that's my experience with the term.
- Because I feel like that's the most accurate way to way to use the term "pay-to-win". If you "pay" and it gets you closer to "winning", then intuitively that should fall under the umbrella of "pay-to-win".
Personally, I would categorize both "pay-to-skip" and "pay-to-win" as different — and at times overlapping — sub-categories of "microtransactions" But if others want to frame things differently, that's fine. Different people having different understandings of terms is far from a new problem, and we've got plenty of conversational tools to address it! ^^
There is only one real definition of it since it was created to seperate one thing from another. What your first point highlights is that people are absolutely clueless since they havent experienced what P2W is and why it was created. Like, single-player P2W? That makes absolutely zero sense, it is quite literally impossible for anyhting single player to be P2W since it is... well... single player.
Point two just means you dont get it. The "win" part or P2W is in relation to other players, you paying real cash to gain a significant advantage over other players. This was a term created when competiative games started to monetize the competative part through their cash shops. When you use this term on WF you are also using it on every game that exsisted before there was a need for this specific term to be created in the first place. Since games back then worked like WF monetization and sold shortcuts not tied to competative systems within the games, or they had no competative systems at all. This means that through your reasoning regarding P2W, those games also became P2W when that term was created even though that term was created to seperate those games from P2W games. There were already terms that described the monetization model of those games, aswell as later games that followed that model, like WF, PoE, MH and others. Those terms were P2S, PfC and similar, where they sold either skips, or convenciance items, like expanded stashes or similar that were cut since the game was otherwise free.
The term has nothing to do with "winning" over anything but other players through paying real cash. Hence why it is impossible for it to apply to single player games, because it is just you that is the sole player.
On 2024-04-17 at 9:30 PM, UnstarPrime said:While pay-to-win is generally a (justifiably) maligned term, I don't think it's innately bad, especially not in a free-to-play game. There are better and worse ways to monetize power, and in my opinion Warframe overall does it fairly well.
This part also shows you dont know what the term imples. P2W is innately a bad term, it was created for that reason, to be used as a red flag or black mark on games that allowed people to pay for significant advantages over others in competative settings. As I said to Voltage in another thread about this same misconception, it is like calling Bob a bigot but then saying it isnt positively a bad thing. Just monetizing power does not mean it becomes P2W. There is no competative aspect in WF where paying cash grants you a significant advantage over other players. Everyone benefits from what you purchase if you purchase something tied to power the moment you play with them using whatever it is you purchased.
You are right though, pay-to-skip can overlap, or well transform into pay-to-win if the systems of the game and whatever is monetized results in significant advantages over other players. But the game needs to have competative aspects for that to happen. WF simply doesnt have that since we are never competing when we play with others. Everything is shared between the group etc. with a common end goal for the activity. If WF had public zones with personal loot and kill tagging etc. it could potentially be close to P2W territory, but even then it would be a massive leap due to how progression and items work in WF. We dont have strict linear progression. For instance somone in a setting as the one mentioned would not increase his chances of tagging mobs by spending on the latest things in this game. Someone grabbing Onos or Ruvox (that is the name right?) for cash right out the door would not positively improve their dominance at a public farm spot compared to someone without those weapons. Since power isnt linear in that way where the latest is the best so that skipping results in an instant power gain over others. In the end though, we dont even have those "competative" PvE systems, since we all share whatever someone else manages to squeeze out of a mob, or that you help that person squeeze out of the mob by having a rare item booster.
I've been through plenty of P2S and P2W games, both F2P and B2P versions. And I see it as a slap in the face of both DE (and other developers) aswell as players when people throw this term around in WF and similar games. It completely removes all meaning from the term and the reason for why it was created in the first place. I mean, what was the reason to create this term when it is going to end up getting used to describe games that it was never intended to be used on? You and others practically brought us back to the time before, since you use the term P2W to mean P2S.
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15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:
literally played for less than 5 minutes after the tragedy LoS changes and noticed it was beyond broken, there are many clips of streamers literally testing them and less than a few minutes was enough to notice it was broken, DE were ashamed of what they released... All this is just indicative they did not take the TIME to think it trough, if they had no time to test it i guarantee they did not really think it through... NO ONE WAS RUSHING THEM... if their QA team was busy they should have waited, tested and ship stuff that is ready, being understaffed is like the best reason to take things slow, they did not (and the result was clear as day to anyone that dont want to be extremely apologetic of DE, like you in this particular sentence, there is no excuse for what they released, no developer team would do that and not feel extremely ashamed, and they did feel ashamed at least)
In the first patch yes, which is no longer the version we have in the game. It is also the same version that was used for Dark Verse, which you somehow did not notice, not for the first week leading up to the broken "Dark Verse" LoS getting added to Tragedy, or for the week after the Tragedy fix. Also, why are you hung up on a mechanic no longer part of the game for either of the two skills? It is about Dante's current state. No one cares about what was. It also took them 1(!) day to fix that mess.
15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Huge lie. this is the most blatant lie i have seen you telling.
No it isnt. That is the LoS issue people projected onto Tragedy after the fix/switch over to the new LoS for Tragedy. Which was there for two full week and no one noticed for the first week. Likely since most didnt care about hitting with Dark Verse, since most likely stayed in lowbie content 1HKing with the initial damage of Tragedy. Which makes me think it applies to you aswell even though you claim you played SP. Or did you squat in infested missions maybe? That would explain alot.
15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:it is a thing, DoT's are slow, how much time do you think you take to move on WF? its less than a couple of seconds to be in a completely different room... and no, maybe in extremely low areas targets would die from 1 tick of dark verse, but anything 250+ is just an annoyance, they will die for sure from just dark verse but they wont die fast.
And in those seconds those mobs are dead. Or do you for some reason revisit "cramped areas" when you've already gotten out of them during the first few minutes of an endless as you try to find a better spot? If so why?
15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:You keep trying to rewrite the meaning of nerf.
Nerf: to reduce the effectiveness of (something, such as a character, attribute, or weapon) in a video game.Unless you change the definition of Nerf, they did nerf him, there is no 2 ways around that.
That means it must have been intended as part of that which they nerf to begin with. A fix is not a nerf. Pageflight was not working as intended, so it was a bug fix and not a nerf. Adding it back as a permanent addition of the skill was a buff though, since it was an addition to how it was intended to work initially.
15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:No i most certainly did not... cramped spaces are where this issue is reocurring, you mark, you move, you detonate, stuff that should be dead is still alive... its literally what i have said since day one, let marked targets be targeted without LoS i dont care if stuff i did not mark receive 0 damage.
Can you stop trying to make up an issue with dark verse, no one wants to discuss dark verse, it is fine, it was always fine, you are trying to create an issue that has never existed...
I completely disagree, i had no problem marking from day one with dark verse, i barely notice much difference, dark verse has always been fine.
It isnt a made up issue with Dark Verse. There is a reason it is documented by players on the bug forum section in response to knee-jerk "Tragedy LoS bugged", and there is a reason there was a bug fix that went live last week for that skill specifically, hilariously in this very patch "to bring it more inline with Tragedy".
Dark Verse:
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Made Dark Verse’s Line of Sight (LoS) checks more reliable to bring it in line with Tragedy.
- Following the improvements to Tragedy’s LoS last week, we’ve applied the same logic to Dark Verse to ensure enemies within LoS are properly considered to prevent cases where being only partially visible would not trigger the check. This is part of the greater LoS improvements detailed in the “Line of Sight Improvements” section below.
So can you maybe read patch notes before claiming things are made up?
15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:This is indeed true on low level enemies only tho, not so much in anything higher wich is were it gets extremely annoying. and i would get it if this was done to tune him down but in reality its not tuning him down its just annoying not really weaker. i would much rather receive a balance (tho i think he never needed one) weapons still outdps all frames so i would love to see more frames being better or as strong as guns to allow more gameplay styles.
It applies to higher content, since I havent done any low content with Dante whatsoever. My content experience with him is SP Mot and Palus for about 2h, both normal and fissure, SP Circulus Fissure for about 2h, Netracells and EDA, aswell as a Lab fissure survival. And he has no problem competing with my Saryn, he has a far easier time the higher the levels get aswell since he is immortal, so his uptime on damage is near 100%, he also has burst which Saryn just doesnt.
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Made Dark Verse’s Line of Sight (LoS) checks more reliable to bring it in line with Tragedy.
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22 hours ago, Karyst said:
Lot of people are saying that abilities having Los is in inconsistency for once again multiple reasons regurgitated multiple times on this forum alone. For those not paying attention, one enemy covering fully line of sight on an enemy behind them, visible in the Kengineers video as an example, also based on my experience before I even read patch notes from update where they added Los, environment obstacles which there are plenty in Sanctum, furthermore it was highlighted here that using 3 3 4 combo is infact inconsistent because an enemy may walk behind an obstacle before you can cast 4 and thus not detonate, an obstacle being anything that counts as one, this is inconsistent even when compared to Saryn that can "mark" with her 1 that requires Los and then blast an area that doesn't have Los and it increases spore damage, sevagoths sow requires Los but reap that detonates enemies marked with sow does NOT have Los and so on. Just few examples to bring the users up do date with mechanics present in the game at this moment compared to subject in question named Dante.
Those parts of his video are outdated. Those were fixed with the implementation of the new LoS system, which went live the day after Tragedy recieved a LoS mechanic and last week for Dark Verse that used the old buggy LoS system prior to that. So none of the obstacles people bring up are big issues now. They were issues for 2 weeks on Dark Verse and for 1 day on Tragedy, with a few minor bugs to iron out. And an enemy walking away from LoS is not an inconsistency, that is just the enemy walking away from your LoS since you were... well... slow. Also, people need to realize, Saryn doesnt deal remotely close to the damage of someone like Dante. She can wipe by ignoring LoS sure, but it isnt effective compared to her playing around LoS i.e using guns or melee to keep her DoTs rolling. Dark Verse deals more damage straight out the door as a reliable DoT compared to spores. As to Sevagoth, he is in a rather terrible state overall in comparison to Dante, no matter how his skills work. Dante is still extremely powerful as a damage dealer and a tank/support/buffer/debuffer at the same time.
The overall inconsistencies with Dante were bigger at release than they are now, since Dark Verse used the terrible old LoS system. That there are some few bugs left does not mean the current version is worse of. The real "issues" are those of the people that want to nuke through solid walls.
8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:that is the problem, there was nothing wrong with it, it already exist too, its not even new. Given the state of the first patch i think you are giving waaaaaay too much credit to how much they tested and considered things through
Apparently there was according to DE. And that it already exsists doesnt mean that DE doesnt want to avoid it in future releases. Also, who the hell cares about the first patch? They fixed that in 1 day. And since none of the players caught onto the Dark Verse issues for a whole week, pointing fingers at DE for not testing the LoS is disengenous. An immensly popular frame and most people found no issues with the same terrible LoS that went live with Tragedy aswell? Yes, point fingers at the very limited testers within the company while thousands upon thousands of players didnt catch on... makes perfect sense.
8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:You are trying to create a problem than never existed to begin with, nobody was annoyed with dark verse, everyone liked Dante on release, you are literally the only person i have even heard of having a problem with original dark verse, but sure it got better nice, we can drop talking about dark verse now, its completely irrelevant to the discusion about tragedy keeping LoS.
Except that every person blaming Tragedy were in reality projecting Dark Verse problems onto Tragedy.
8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:100% disagree, the whole point of tragedy is not having to wait for stuff to die from dots, you detonate them in order to not wait the 2 or 3 ticks (or whatever many ticks it can take for something to die) like could you play without tragedy? sure it would just be a lot of waiting for stuff dying from damage over time, dante would still be strong as well, he would just be really annoying to play.
Well "having to wait" isnt really a thing. I mean, you said you DoTed things up as you moved so you could detonate to get rid of them. Those things should already be dead as you move on, the need to detonate shouldnt be there if it is the things behind the wall you are talking about. Which it seems to be regarding how you've reasoned regarding cramped areas. This is not about nuking in general, since if it is and you are running around to prime, then the first targets are already very likely dead where you left them thanks to Dark Verse.
8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:how players feels while playing is the single most important thing in a game, if players get bored they dont play and dont pay. the game needs to feel fun and enjoyable, Dante itself dropped drastically in popularity from the first week to now, a lot of people were having fun and spending money with him, some people still do but a lot was lost just for that useless change. It does not benefit much and it does not even make him weaker, its just an annoyance and on top of that they released the patch in such a state was even worse.
No, balance and a development vision should be the most important part. And if you think feelings should play the biggest role, then you should be happy, since a wider portion of players were likely happy to see room nuking gone on Dante, so they now have something to do in low level content while ending up with him. Which is undeniably one of the reasons why he was changed the way he was. Or are you saying that Dante was played by the majority of people and those people make up the majority of opinions? If so the change also goes inline with DE philosophy on dominance.
8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Sure you can have your opinion, its just not shared by most players, the change was bad (you like it or not), its pointless, annoying, and literally made ppl stop playing a fun frame. Annoying your players will never be a good change.
What "most players"? The vocal negative minority that is mostly the one heard even if they are a minority?
8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Again discussing something really irrelevant, but no, your intentions are irrelevant, if you make something weaker you just nerfed it, definitions do not change based on what you wanted to do, was he stronger before the patch? YES, was he weaker after the patch? YES -> thats a nerf, the original design is irrelevant.
Or you could go and read up on the meaning of nerf versus buff vs fix and so on? And no, it wasnt a nerf, since it removed something not intended to be there. Reduction to OG = nerf, since the value was intended from release but was then seen as too much. Nezha augment = nerf since it was intended to have full range but seen as too powerful after the actual release.
8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:You hit the nail in the head here, its not, wich makes me all the more annoyed when i have to wait 2 ticks for something to die when i already hit him and detonated the group he was part of... but based on something out of my control he is slighly out of LoS so now i have to either go back and hit him with something else or wait for him to die... annoying AF and it literally does not change anything he is a dead man walking but my detonator skill no longer works because he moved a bit to the left, just the extra annoyance of having to go back or just move on and let it die once i am out of loot range...
So you've now changed the story of wanting to nuke as you get away from cramped spaces to simple nuking? And no, "slightly out of LoS" is not how the new LoS works. You are at this point exaggerating massively. And what you are hung up on was as much part of things when Tragedy had no LoS, since Dark Verse failed far more often at applying the DoT to detonate. Which resulted in a worse situation since the mob wasnt even left with a DoT to kill it.
8 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:i think you just do not realize how many times enemies get stuck or slighly out of your LoS, maybe you just play in a differente way than i do, i play marking and detonating moving between packs, i completely dislike spamming tragedy on every pack, i want to mark and detonate, loot and move on. not 223 223 223 spam (wich is how some people play and its completely valid, not having LoS would not change how they can play, it would just let me enjoy how i liked Dante)
If I move between packs to prime in order to have a massive bunch to detonate I will not have much left to detonate out of those I leave behind, since Dark Verse will finish them before I've primed the rest. Which is why I see zero reason in having enemies come from all directions in the first place. Plus it is a #*!%ing chore to run back in order to loot. So I rather 3+3+4 or 3+3+melee depending on how far the enemies are from me.
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22 hours ago, helioth137 said:
I clearly don't understand how melee influence works then... 9m does indeed sound nutty.
I thought it was locked for 20 seconds once you trigger electric on a target?
Spreading all the status on that target to all other targets within range?Yeah you've mixed up how it works a bit.
It works like this. When an electric status procs on an enemy there is a 20% chance for the status to activate the arcane. The arcane is then active for 20 seconds (cant refresh the buff duration during this time) and spreads all elemental statuses you apply to enemies during that time. Not only that, but each spread status also inflicts its modded damage on the target it spreads to.
So fast hitting weapons aswell as good range can produce an insane amount of AoE damage from the arcane. A weapon with 9m reach can potentially hit enemies with influence 29m away from you, since the status spread from the target. This can also turn your gunblades into 20m AoE "guns", though Hate Incarnon does it better since it has none of the drawbacks of the terrible gunblade stances, it just launches projectiles with your forward and neutral combo as you slash away.
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A tip here for lower geared players since it is about Kullervo.
If you use Curse alot, consider using Toxin damage when facing Corrupted, since the health type damaged transfers directly to damage the same health type for all curse linked targets while also ignoring defenses. This means that no matter what you hit it will always damage health of everyone else, as opposed to if you run any other damage type, at which point corpus will have their shields targetted first. So if they are the main target you spread from, damage you deal to the shields will deal no damage to any corrupted grineer or infested since they dont have shields.
So toxin makes it easier to target anything, while every other damage type benefits from targetting either corrupted grineer or infested, since they only have health to target, which then bypasses Corpus shields through curse link. Now if you are geared this wont matter, since no matter what you hit it will kill everything else that is cursed aswell.
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I think nerfing the power of the invo mods wouldnt be beneficial, since it would just result in it working as if you hit less mobs already but with a longer duration. And as it is right now, reapplying the buff to the same effect as a nerfed version isnt really hard to maintain, since aslong as you kill (not with the tome itself) enemies will fill the bar since it feeds on secondary ammo drops. So I rather have the current potential max than more duration.
Now if they wanna make it easier to reach the cap by reducing it and increasing the effect per stack I'm all for it, or if they wanna leave it be and increase the duration per hit aswell.
Canticle mods could use a massive buff though, either by increased values and durations on tome kills, or simply make them passive build modifications so any kill triggers them. Currently they work somewhat on "caster" frames, since all you need in order for them to trigger is to use the tome to mark targets and then kill while the tome is your active weapon. And as you kill with skills, the tome still counts as the active weapon in your hands. However, considering how little those mods do, allowing any kill to simply trigger them like an augur mod wouldnt be too far fetched or OP.
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Yeah, HA-projectile weapons are a pita to use on him due to the wobbly-wobble of his camera with those weapons. However, it should be noted that it does not apply to all of them. Ceramic Dagger works perfectly fine and just launches the projectiles on HA through Wrathful without twisting and turning the camera.
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19 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:
I have repeatedly said he is not much weaker, even tho he is a bit weaker, he is not much weaker, he is a whole lot more annoying to play and removed options as to how you can play him. wich is the thing i dont like about the change.
That is just how changes work. They saw a reason to change a certain style potential since they saw something wrong with it. And since his power is intact there is nothing wrong with that if they saw some interaction as unhealthy.
19 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:No its not, having abilitites that mark with LoS is not inconsistency its a design desition, one that makes sence, if your marker and detonator both work without LoS its extremely powerful, that's ehy they added it, no one complained because Dante felt great to play, no one have problems with Dark Tragedy, it has always been about tragedy. The root of his inconsistency is a detonator ability that does not detonate enemies even tho they are previously marked.
No one is saying that having abilities to mark is inconsistency. And the part I bolded shows you dont know where the root of the problem was. Yes people claimed it was Tragedy getting LoS that resulted in inconsistency, but that was also not true as can even be seen in the kengineer video talked about here, and even mentioned by the poster of that comment. That skill has been the bugged part of detonations and everything else since day 1 because it failed to prime since release. So if Tragedy would have stayed without LoS and Dark Verse was never fixed, you'd still end up failing to detonate things behind wall and everywhere else since they might have never gotten primed in the first place due to a bugged Dark Verse, which bugged out from several things, including Dante blocking it and small terrain pieces aswell.
Right now the skills work properly and the only time you wont see a detonation is if the target is actually blocked from LoS. On the otherhand you deal so much damage with Dark Verse that a reason to detonate behind a wall seems rather pointless and a waste of energy/casting time.
19 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Sure, subjectivity and opinions are not irrelevant somehow i feel like you would say only objective stuff matter but that is far from the truth speaking about a game, how your players feel when they play is extremely importante, what you just said also means they should always try to leave as many ways to play as posible to let more people enjoy the frame and should also mean you have no reason to opose people asking for the removal of LoS.
Player feelings should really not stop changes incase they go against an idea the devs have to reduce something like what they see as disruptive gameplay or similar. If the power stays intact all that is needed is for players to adapt to a different style. And like I've said they can remove the LoS and instead remove the innate damage of Final Verse to solve low level nuking if that was the issue. But there seems to be other things they wanted to remove by adding LoS.
19 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:You are defending bad changes, adding LoS to Tragedy was a bad change, improving LoS in general is a good change but they are not related, one can exist without the other.
I dont think it was a bad change. You can feel it was a bad change if you like, that doesnt mean I defend a bad change, since again it is subjective and not objective. I'm of the opinion that more things should have LoS added to them.
19 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:a nerf is to reduce the effectiveness or power of something, their intentions is not relevant, it was a nerf anyway, not that it really matter, most people care about is LoS the nerf into buff for pageflight is pretty irrelevant
A nerf is a targetted adjustment to something already intended as part of the game. Pageflight was not intended to have that interaction, so not a nerf when it was removed, it was a simply bug fix. It getting added back was a buff to the frame since it gave him something that wasnt intended in his original design.
20 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Quite literally everywhere tbh, it annoys the #*!% out of me every time i run around a corner and the enemies i just marked are no longer being tagged, yesterday it happened in a in a lua mision where i was invaded by misery, he dodge into a corner, netracell were i moved a bit and bam half the enemies i marked no longer detonating, also duviri where the terrain #*!%s LoS a lot, also in a cave on earth while doing Cetus bounties and then also on the stupid small passages and hallways in Necralisk vaults... want me to keep going?? how many examples you need?, the issue is everywhere its very annoying, stuff that i marked should get detonated is as simple as that. all those are SP so the base damage i deal to enemies is irrelevant, only ppl marked is taking any real damage.
How horrible is your Dark Verse damage then? I asked you about places where you feel like you need to use Tragedy in the first place. And seriously, Cetus and Deimos bounties? Your Dark Verse needs to be detonated in bounties? I mean, it is entry level SP levels. And where in Duviri (I assume you mean undercroft) do you ever get blocked? It's as open as it can get. I've had zero issues with him and landing his skills in netracells/labs. I hit enemies below me that have been primed without any failures even if I'm not looking in their direction or being close to the edge of the elevated part I'm standing on since I'm priming for a detonation in a side tunnel. It all ends up going boom and dying, both down below and in the tunnel I just primed.
I had issue up until the patch last week which fixed Dark Verse properly, but none since then because now both skills work as they should for priming and detonation. You are exaggerating how the terrain interfears now, since only solid walls block it. Not even doorways that #*!% up LoS for Kullervo's teleport interfear with DV/Trag.
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17 hours ago, helioth137 said:
what do you like about the nami solo ?
and how do you put the ack & brunt to use ? i got it and liked it initially but it fell off use wise... haven't found its niche yetThe 9m range potential on Nami Solo is crazy, especially with an Influence build, since you get massive AoE plus the weapon has forced heavy attack bleeds with a spin AoE. Not the ultimate Influence weapon since the combos arent that fast hitting, but it is devastating and mobile at the same time. With Ack & Brunt it is also about Influence, it works really well with the highly mobile Elevent Storm stance, plus slide attacks launch a heavy hitting AoE projectile.
I forgot to mention Hate on my list aswell, it is just bonkers aswell with Influence since it just pumps out projectiles that detonate and spreads statuses.
Then all of them are just further improved by playing Kullervo or using a slightly inferior frame with Wrathful as Helminth choice. Saryn is also fun with influential Hate, since it spreads her toxin lash like crazy.
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2 minutes ago, captn_Pat said:
So why use tragedy at all now when a weapon does the job better? And not only that weapon, any good weapon, his 4 feels like a shotgun now in its nature, rather short range in a cone, that massive radius in the tooltip is misleading, in practice its more like 20 meters, what you look at, maybe, if it isnt behind SOMETHING, enemies blocking themself from damage in halls, its not as awful as before the los fix (that helped some frames quite a bit, so there is that, my khora appreciates it) but its still crap, a expensive dot detonator should not have los restrictions when the primer itself already has that restriction. Its ok that you are fine with it, i dont like it at all, and i am not alone.
Same reason you use any other skill even though weapons do it better mostly, because it is fun to play caster frames. 30-ish meter (with 1 mod) shotgun with a 50 degree angle, that can be detonated for millions and millions and millions of damage. Sure sign me up for that shotgun! Expensive detonator, it costs 50(!). And in WFs day and age, who even thinks about energy when we have so many options to counter it? Efficiency, shards, arcanes, operator, mods etc. Pick a choice and never think about energy.
I'm running full efficiency with 1 minute long buffs (dropped down from 75 sec since I wanted Nexus aswell) and 55k OG, my skills cost nothing and my damage still overkills if detonated or bleeds enemies out in seconds if left alone in SP (for hours). Like what more do people need?
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Dual Ichor
Nami Solo
Bo (Prime)
Sancti Magistar
Ack & Brunt
Burston (Prime)
Torid
Dual Toxocyst
Ceramic Dagger (due to what it enables on pseudo exalteds)
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Cant speak for solo, but in group Nezha with the Divine Spears augment worked well. I had a -75% duration modifier aswell which combined well with it, since it ment things died fast due to stacked statuses "exploding" and that I could recast it often. But it also depends what weapons you have access to. I was lucky with Kuva Kohm, Zakti Prime and Dual Keres Prime.
Plus, also consider all missions before heading full speed onto building for the defense. Hence why I picked Nezha, since the last missions was Disruption, so my wrathful build works there aswell.
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As skins maybe. But still, what gives the operator/drifter the right to abuse the frame? All frames were made from and still are invdividuals. I guess war crimes arent enough for the child soldier to get their fix anymore?
Though you can win me over if I can get a mare skin for Loki! That way my drifterator can get into some more Mengele-esque experiments and start trying to cross-breed frames with kaithes, or maybe those owls or goat things. Uber-Sleipnir or maybe a "human" centipede but with frames!
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I just cant get away from melee influence on him together with insane amounts of crit chance and crit damage in total.
Right now I'm getting a flat +600% total crit with Wrathful+Avenger, then a bit over 100%+ on the weapon itself, depending which one I use, for atleast 700% crit chance in total. I've swapped out Ukko for Roar and practically never Curse, since Influence already kills everything 20-26(29) meters around me depending on the weapon and how close to me the enemies get hit. When I do use Curse it is before I unload the alt fire on my Grimoire.
It is also why I have a love-hate relationship with my Smeeta Dizzy atm, since at times she ends up drooling and looking at me with the "I haz prezent 4 u mastur!" look and grants me her crit "buff", dumping me down to 200% crit instead. Well atleast she tries! I'm glad I can stuff her back in the Orbiter as soon as my boosters run out. Only 35 more days or so with a slightly mentally disabled kavat by my side. It gives me time to decide if I'm gonna go back to my Panzer, the Hound or start utilizing my Adarza.
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23 hours ago, captn_Pat said:
Loki can make teammates invincible, status proc like mad with decoy and is invisible (and invincible).
-So you dont like spammy frames?
i do, when they are effective at it, wich was the whole point of my argument, I dont like weapon platforms, i prefer skills to do the killing,
None of that is done passively, that was my question. And since you and others are upset over the LoS it is hard to see your point with Loki's active LoS required abilities. Both not only requiring general LoS, but a target right in your reticle. Dante throws up the buffs and then they are there to be reapplied each minute or so, that is my point. I was also more pointing out you cant base casts per minute leading to kills based on a caster frame and then a weapon frame. Maybe compare Dagath and Protea to Dante, since they are more comparable as spammers. Then we have some spammy platforms aswell, like Kullervo where you constantly move with a skill aswell as spread bleeds and OG constantly.
Also like I said, going with an influence weapon on Dante will likely lead to more kills as opposed to Loki in the end, since he has passive weapon buffs, quick dots to weave in and immortality in the process. So you can compare how those two compare with weapons.
17 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:No, my playstyle did NOT REMOVE any other playstile, it was released with both playstyles being completely posible and fine, now only 1 of them is posible for no reason whatsoever.. beside annoying people, your oposition to have more playstyles makes 0 sense, more optiosn = better, this do not affect anyone that did not play that way, yet you are defending the change as if they were somehow exclusive with each other.
And no one said you did. It is still a matter of subjectivity. That is my point. He did not get objectively weaker, something you've also said you arent talking about, so even more subjective regarding what changed. And you can still run around and DoT maps, and what them die effortlessly without ever touching Tragedy. I even made a Dark Verse Rhino since the skill is just that good at spamming and wiping SP.
17 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Literally nobody on the whole forum complained about it, but it was already buffed so its great we get a "better" version better LoS consistency is a good thing when LoS its attached to the correct abilities.
Which is the odd part, since it was the root of inconsistency in his whole kit all the way up to last week. Odd how people suddenly notice that LoS when they presume it is due to a completely different skill, when in reality it isnt and that problem has been part of the frame since day one. Like, how did it suddenly become an issue because Tragedy got changed?
17 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:"Yes you can, exept in some ways." ====> this implies that you CAN'T literally you are agreing with me. you can't play him in some ways that you could before simple as that, if you agree you dont need to try and disagree for the sake of disagreeing, you dont have to try and disagree with the stuff you agree with.
The fact is having LoS or not does nothing against your playstyle and make mine imposible to enjoy, so the solution is simple remove LoS and we BOTH can enjoy the gameplay we love, its not like removing LoS suddenly makes your playstyle imposible.Still just subjectivity. Since it isnt a decrease in his power or damage, it is a change that impacts how you play. And how we play is a personal choice due to an idea of fun, which is always subjective.
17 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Completely irrelevant as to him having LoS they can improve LoS and remove them from Dante's tragedy, nothing makes those exclude each other.
No it isnt when you claim I defend bad changes, which I dont, since I dont find the changes bad.
17 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Pageflight was released that way, there is no question, they nerfed him removing that buff and added it to him later as an official part of the skill, there was no buff from release as to now, he was his strongest when he was released.
A fix to something unintended is not a nerf. So they never nerfed pageflight, they fixed it. Then gave it to us anyways since we asked for it, so we got something that wasnt supposed to be there to begin with, a buff.
17 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:Please link 3 post, maybe you can find 1 in the whole internet, but link 3, you wont be able to find 3. I only saw praises as to how dante was extremely fun before the nerf.
I'm refering to every person complaining about the LoS on Tragedy, the people that did/dont know it was tied to Dark Verse at the time of their complaint.
Also, it is odd you cant answer a simple question like where you actually used the playstyle you complain is no longer available. What kind of content levels you ran where you needed to detonate things after DoTing up the whole map and ended up on the other side of a wall. I'm running SP for quite long durations and Dark Verse alone is enough in cases where I need to reposition and kill at the same time. There is often nothing behind me out of view behind a wall that I could possibly spend a Tragedy on.
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Havent tested a real speedrun, but with an avarage map layout and no stupid necramite spawning my Kullervo does at around 9 minutes +/-20sec.
Blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, hack, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, hack, blink, Imsureyougetthepicture, hack. Then it's just raining hell within the circle with whatever influence weapon I carry as a blink from time to time to keep the buff up. Then blink like a madman to the necramite. I absolutely hate when it is a stupid run, where the mite spawns 1k+ back somewhere. Atleast I've memorized most of the wonky spawns, so know where to look when it seems it is bugged.
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18 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:
This is *not* true, you can be reported for griefing if you, for example, get yourself rad procced on purpose and then destroy mission objectives. Turns out even in random matchmaking, griefing is in fact *not* allowed, and if I wanted to grief people I'd *definitely* pick Limbo.
I mean anything goes within the rules, like running around opening lockers, smashing crates etc. while someone else might want to rush say a boss. Leeching, griefing etc. however falls outside of the rules. And yeah, Limbo does indeed have potential for griefing, even unwillingly so by being played by an inexperienced Lamebo player. The gentleman really needs an overhaul and a rework. He needs to become less top hat gentleman and more Guy Ritchie type of gentleman if you catch my drift.
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15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:
"more consistent"? wtf, its imposible for him to be more consistent, he is 100% more inconsitent. He also does not do more damage... that is plainly incorrect. YOU do hit equal or less enemies, its imposible to hit more than before... and again, if i marked an enemy and he is 15m just around the corner i should be able to detonate him simple as that. And as i stated i dont care if they remove the base damage, i want to hit marked enemies. (if you use a weapon then its 1000% irrelevant to the discussion...)
now read this very slowly till it manages to get into your head: if they reduce his damage in order to make him hit enemies that i already marked, that's fine, if they reduce base area in order to make him hit enemies marked, that is fine, that's because i dont mind them reducing his damage output as long as the LoS mechanic is gone and stop annoying me b/c i just stop targeting my camera at an enemy, or its inconsistency and dependency on Settings to perform better.
That is still about your playstyle. You let those enemies pass out of sight before detonating. There is no reason for that since they are in LoS for you long enough to 334 them. He is more consistent unless you relied on the playstyle you mention. If you play him around the limitation he already had at release, which is Dark Verse, which has a shorter range than Tragedy along with angle and LoS requirements aswell, he will perform better now. Since you will land more Dark Verse debuffs due to it having new LoS mechanics and you will deal more damage due to your buffs aswell.
Which again just means it is your playstyle you want to have things catered to. That just results in a subjective opinion. You are also exaggerating how impactful the LoS is, since we are practically talking full walls here that blocks. Most enemies, not even netracell culverins with weakpoints intact, survive your Dark Verse long enough for you to even get to a point where you would need to detonate something through a wall. So what type of content you've ran or run that even makes it an issue I have a hard time figuring out.
15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:No, because Dark Verse was used for marking enemies, you have to cast it twice to cast tragedy anyway, so you run mark run mark and detonate, this worked great, he was not inconsistent b/c any enemy targeted by your Dark verse was going to be detonated. (Also old dark verse has a pretty good LoS check, same as now tbh i did not notice much change for dark verse LoS check)
The mumbo jumbo about Dark Verse LoS improvements is irrelevant, it worked just fine before as well, never had any issue marking enemies with dark verse ever.
But he was since Dark Verse was the actual bottleneck in several cases of "missing" the target, which is not the same LoS as it has now which was fixed and improved in the recent patch. You know those videos of tragedy missing? That was Dark Verse missing, so there was nothing to detonate. People made sure to test this after those initial knee jerk videos right after the improved Tragedy friday patch. So you missed just as much back then, but even in the bloody open, since targets simply wouldnt get primed due to minor things aswell as Dante blocking Dark Verse. Now you have two LoS reliant skills where practically nothing blocks them aside from straight up LoS being fully blocked.
15 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:o, you simply can't play him as before, that's not subjective, so you can OBJECTIVELY play him in less ways than before.
You are one person, most people clearly had more fun with him before... you probably had more fun with him before too but for some reason feel the need to defend bad changes.
No part of his kit got any buffs from release, pageflight had the status damage on release, they removed it on the nerf patch. they nerfed OG (wich is pretty much irrelevant) and the LoS from Dark Verse was completely fine from day 1 (no one ever complained about it being inconsistent or not hitting stuff it should hit).
I think you are just making stuff up at this point, you are either lying or very confused on many points.
Yes you can, except in some ways. That makes him subjectively worse since it fully depends on your personal playstyle. For me the changes had no impact aside from the positive, since I got more self buffs and a more reliant Dark Verse. Tragedy still does the same since I use it the same way as I did before since I funnel enemies with Dante the same as I do with every other frame and have done for years due to gun, melee and frame play mixed on a regular basis.
I dont think they are bad changes, since they've resulted in better gameplay for several other frames aswell because their LoS have also gotten improved significantly.
Pageflight getting the status damage is a buff since it was never ment to be part of the kit, wordwarden getting increased damage is a buff, OG went even, since it gained higher reg, which was doubled (matters as little as the reduction of the other parts of the skill). And clearly people did complain about Dark Verse, they just didnt notice it until they started to claim it was Tragedy suffering from it. Which is hilariously odd in itself.
18 hours ago, captn_Pat said:I am of cause not oblivious to the fact that a lot of those spells are rebuffing, what those numbers tell you though is that he is very, very spammy and still gets outperformed by loki with a dagger (with a mod that doesnt give a f about line of sight, melee influnce).
I chose this very kpm suboptimal place because i like to go there recently and have reference points for lots of frames, i can still surmise the performance of a frame there, its all relative. Guess what a dual icor saryn does to this place with way less button presses.
So you dont like spammy frames? Does Loki provide OG to others, debuffs to enemies and self buffs passively? No he doesnt. You could also use Dante as a weapon platform like you did with Loki and use the same amount of skills and likely get a better kpm/kps since enemies wont act drunk due to stealth at times. Most frames are surpassed by melee influence atm, so comparing a frame with that vs a frame using their kit isnt really saying much about a frame.
Any frame that can buff influence will do better than a frame that cant, and if you add Dual Ichor into the mix you end up at ridiculous levels of performance over kit based damage from a frame. For instance, influence on Kullervo nearly renders Curse completely pointless, Dual Ichor with influence on Kullervo completely renders Curse useless. And I dont think people realize how silly Dante can get as an infuence frame either together with his birds and his floating book. Book goes brrrrrr.
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14 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:
Society is sick at the moment and it's getting worse and worse.
and look how such behavior is defended here. Not even the best psychiatrist can help.and yes. Avoid YouTube/Witch etc. streams. at least if you want a successful future for your child.
Mom-jokes are comparable to the sick state of the world how? Nevermind people getting butchered at a festival in the name of an imaginary friend, or parents irreversibly mutilating their children in order to seem "aware", or a madman effectively trying to start WW3 through a "special operation". Yeah no... totally, mom-jokes and slightly crude streamers are the problem, same as modern music and TV, and even fiddles at one point (damn those hands of Satan!").
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4 hours ago, Monolake said:
I dont know if lvl400 archemidia can be a benchmark for anything, but Dante can still do even quad digit levels easily and giving global regenerating ~50k overguard in few seconds is sill too much making the game boring for everyone in your "normal" base SP content.
The thing is he is also very forgiving to build to get to those points. I went with a max efficiency build on him and my OG still sits at 55k total and my Tragedy is at 11.5x damage, while having 75 second long buffs and near 30/45 meter range on Dark Verse/Tragedy. Then with Roar thrown in instead of Noctua you have a Dark Verse that shreds on it's own as needed.
edit: And I still havent tried him with my proper loadout that will utilize either a panzer or a viral spreading hound, since I'm currently making as much use out of my booster time with a smeeta. Will be fun to test his full potential in 40 days or so. 👀
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PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.6
in PC Update Notes
Posted
There wasnt much to think through since it already exsisted in the game. It just didnt work well with Tragedy. And his current state does not come from that patch, since that LoS does not exsist, it was removed the day after and replaced with the new system.
They will, since the EHP wont be much different from entry level SP due to the skill ignoring armor, the biggest impact on damage. And it still works, if you alter your playstyle slightly, by not having enemies spread all over a place.
No, it had LoS. Just like every other skill that they bring up in the notes. They get improved checks over the old. Also the key phrase regarding Dark Verse is " (LoS) checks more reliable to bring it in line with Tragedy." meaning it had worse LoS checking than Tragedy.
No, she just doesnt have burst in her kit without weapons. There is no way to circumvent the need for ticks on Saryn's skills in order for them to kill. And they were never planning on balancing him, since they stated clearly in their devshort that they were happy with his damage. They clearly werent happy with how that damage was applied, which is a different story. I kill enemies with Dark Verse, never said 1. I simply move and cast as I go since it has practically no cast time and allows me to stay mobile while also stacking. I mean, he isnt exactly a hard frame to build given his very forgiving base stats and access to the defenses he has. It's just like with Rhino with a subsumed Dark Verse, it rivals weapons without any need for a detonation tool whatsoever.