JuicyPop
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Posts posted by JuicyPop
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:
Nobody is forcing me to do derelict runs, I get premium mods from Baro or trade
Nobody is forcing anyone to fish or mine, I presented an alternative I’m sure there will be others as we play along
Some caste of players along the line most certainly have to and that experience simply doesn't mesh with the game in the slightest whereas Derelict runs are just another arm of a mission system in a gameplay loop dedicated to gunplay.
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:
Baro Kteer, trade, or farm the primes for yourself
Solar chart farming, trade or Eidolon farm for yourself
what’s the diff?
If you're not going to at least read and respond in detail, then please understand that it is no longer worth my time to respond to you.
And the difference in this case is that those resources are acquired through primary gameplay loops, not a mini-game that stands to the side.
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31 minutes ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:
It’s called a workaround
that guy who would rather play/farm in Heroacon?
Go ahead, then buy and sell to purchase your Eidolon needs
This is what working people do amirite?
A workaround is supposed to be a temporary solution to an immediate problem while something more elegant is developed.
Sure, you can acquire fish through the market at a premium but how sustainable is that niche? It works in the present given that PoE is a recent addition and there is a general interest despite its many flaws, but it's not likely to be a sustainable element as we progress through successive content updates. Activities that generate critical resources need to, at the very least, mesh with the core gameplay loops or the content that they underpin will be at risk.
If DE wants the open world theme to be a resounding success that defines their game then they need to give the majority of their playerbase reasons to actually enter that realm. WF at its core is still supposed to be a form of entertainment, so you cannot seriously argue that a healthy future for PoE would entail several hundred players carving out a niche as fishers to profit off the fact that the content is so tedious and unsatisfying that most would rather pay to skip it.
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I sometimes wonder if these were intended to be flat chance but were coded incorrectly with the dev team left completely unaware.
It would still be awful, but at least it would make sense.
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Just now, (PS4)Chel-El said:
So buy it with plat then, like I said it’s already in the economy a player here is selling them.
Another example- There’s players on wiki suggesting not to farm Ivara because RNG. They suggest to farm other things for plat then pay for her.
Does this not apply to those who think they’re forced to fish or those who just don’t wanna do it.
And then we have this sort of frustrating mentality, that poor design elements can be excused simply because some poor sap is willing to do it.
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The problem is that, while there are many things to grind on PoE, there is really no objective reason to be there, especially during the day. The bounty rewards aren't compelling and outside of Zaws and the Fosfor blueprints, I see nothing of utility to be earned that can be incorporated into normal play unless you really believe that maxed Operators/Waybounds are going to be core to some end game element that doesn't yet exist. It's the worst form of grinding, that for its own sake with no clear payoff.
The gunplay in WF is satisfying enough that I can sit in Heiracon for hours on end every day and derive enjoyment. I cannot say the same for elements that are distinctly unrelated to the combat loops such as fishing/mining/etc. because I'm not actually playing the game while I'm collecting.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:
Open crates again?!
There better be a better suggestion than this, because I can do that in Ceres
fishing are mining are 10x more interactive and creative! why would you want to devolve back into simple crates, this system is used in PS2 games
The only difference with fishing/mining and even general resource farming is that you happen to be inside the crate. Warframe is the crate as opposed to it just being a system to support another experience.
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The standing system in PoE really makes the Lotus and the Tenno seem like door mats. I'm not saying that we should ransack the place and burn it to the ground – I want to but that's besides the point – but you would at least think that the people in Cetus would be wary of that potential. What exactly are their options? We could just leave and let the Infested/Grineer end them, so why are we affording them such a strong bargaining position?
There is grind, and then there is grind that just seems so horridly out of place that it breaks all sense of story.
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Ehh, I just don't even care about the story. I'd really rather just let Cetus rot and swoop in afterwards to pick from the ruin.
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18 hours ago, Terrornaut said:
Not that games need to be compared, but, games that rely heavily on gear setups that generally are furnished with UI conveniences pretty much always have gear loadouts. Loadouts...not the same as a wide area vacuum. Different uses, different intents, different forms of convenience. Looter games, if they have loot convenience, its usually through something extra like a pet that costs extra and gathers stuff (TERA, other mmos), and thats even when you have to push a button to confirm loot. WF...you go ...near something.
Kubrow looting does suck. Wouldn't mess with one because of time taken away from being useful doing other things.
Also, can't find that post by the guy who was with an Ember and Equinox, but, yeah, even with a vacuum, you aren't going to be doing much but standing around. It might be a little better with a disarm loki + speedva but...yeah, things are going to be dying around corners before you get to gun them down, even at higher levels. Your job is basically to play easter egg hunt at that point and contribute damage/defense/cc when possible.
Yes, and then when a majority of the playerbase says, in so many words, "We aren't going to be buying all of these new pets and cosmetics in the quantities that we could be given that this other type of pet is so ridiculously strong that it pushes everything else out," the company realizes it's in their financial interest to act.
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18 minutes ago, Zendadaist said:
You need to brush up on your reading comprehension. Nowhere did I imply on any level that 3m is the same as what vacuum give. In fact, I was alluding to the opposite. 3m is so tiny it wasn't noticed.
"I think that tells you everything you need to know about how useful an addition it was; that it's made next to no difference for most players."
That last bit is rather up in the air. You could say that it either wasn't enough and therefore needs to be extended or you could be approaching it in the sense that it's so meaningless that it's not even worth implementing.
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I don't even understand the aura around the founder label.
I had some money that I spent on a game that I liked, it's not special.
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5 minutes ago, Zendadaist said:
They added a 3m Universal Vacuum with PoE.
No one noticed until they were told about it.
I think that tells you everything you need to know about how useful an addition it was; that it's made next to no difference for most players.
I think you need to brush up on your basic geometry if you think that a 3m vacuum is on the same planet as an 11.5m vacuum.
3m radius = 113m3
11.5m radius = 6371m3
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59 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:
Emotes aren't a necessity. I think you should have to type out your reaction instead of having the convenience of shorthand.
I for one have never felt the need for emotes because I'm not lazy.
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17 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:
Getting 100% of the loot is in no way necessary. No more necessary then opening 100% of the lockers in the game, which contain loot. No more necessary than breaking every crate. No more necessary than having a booster.
It has nothing to do with "fun" and the whole "why can't I have my fun" argument is a laughable.
No pet user is slowly combing the floor looking for and stopping 100s of times to pick up loot. The gameplay is relatively identical, with the MAIN difference being the resource stat at the end of a mission.
If a player prefers vacuum, then fine, make that choice. It's simply a choice, not a necessity. Pets are there for those that are willing to forgo vacuum for utility. It's actually a very good game choice. Choice is suppose to matter and have s value. And vacuum is really a minor value that some people greatly blow out of proportion.
Again, loadouts weren't a necessity either. Were you against loadouts when the community was asking for them a few years back?
The concept of necessity cannot be the sum total of your argument; it's just too fragile. I'm completely open to being proven wrong about this issue, but you have to up your game.
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11 hours ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:
Loot dropping through the terrain makes it a technical problem and that makes vacuum a band-aid to fix it.
On the regular starmap sure, just chaos, but sorties I've seen all kinds of different builds to take on the various challenges that appear. Frankly they should build upon that.
Cars can go up to 200mph but most roads only want you going 35. Capability doesn't equal intention. You want to go balls to the wall ultra fast? Well I'm tired of doing barrel rolls everywhere. Bad design is making the sprint button slower than the dodge. And where are you going so fast? They've been removing one and done game modes replacing them with time investment types.
You're right, vacuum already is in the game. You ever mull on that point? And I didn't say it'll blow a hole through their profits, I meant they'd have to audit everything in the game revolving around looting, including sentinels in relation to other companions, as well as what their function is in the game aside from mainly sucking things up. Are they nannybots or simply glorified spectres? And we know they don't want your companions getting all the kills so they're mainly just decoys that heal you or whatever.
Then there's other mods like auras. Why not have energy syphon just in the game? Everyone uses only that and nothing else. Same issue applies to vacuum. You're sacrificing one mod spot and everything else that could go into that spot for utility. The only way you get any build variety is by pulling yourself out of the hole you want to stay in.
The topic being vacuum is already in the game and you want a free upgrade? Pshh. But I have work! Then buy everything with your work money. :shrug:
"The topic being loadouts are already in the game and you want a free upgrade to three? Pshh. But I have multiple setups for specific missions! Then waste your time swapping out between every sortie because there isn't even a way to buy more. :shrug:"
I really would like to dig through threads to see if any of the people arguing against vacuum also argued against the loadout tab.
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1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:
Wow, what exaggeration. I assure you it's not that hard to grab loot. I can also assure you that if you were to ignore it, you'd barely notice or miss it.
Well... of course???
I feel as if you wanted this to sound pithy but it just highlighted the sheer hilarity of the counterargument.
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1 minute ago, EndermanBeast said:
Average; how much an average person would have. Unless you want me to Google it.
Just missed my edit.
I don't believe that the typical player even visits these forums, so you're probably not going to get a satisfying answer to that particular question.
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Define normal.
I doubt that the average player even visits the forums, so you're not going to get a good gauge on that.
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43 minutes ago, Aggh said:
It really boggles my mind that people are willing to defend a pointless barrier to efficiency. All these "I don't mind having to walk over loot" hipsters need to get over themselves. We get it, for some reason your are just fine with the inconvenience of have to pick up every bit of loot if you decide not to use a sentinel. Not everyone is like you. There isn't a good reason not to have a universal vacuum and it's really silly that this is an actual discussion.
If people really enjoy walking over every single individual piece of loot like we've time traveled back to the ninties, then add a toggle for the larger vacuum. Hell, while you're at it, add a Diablo mode where they have to click on each individual pile of credits.
There are a lot of silly things in this world that persist because the vast majority of people base their opinions upon feelings.
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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:
Abuse IS the name of the game. How many people were coptering or using Mirmulor for meta? Trade got all kinds of QoL because it was so abusive. And text and voice chat don't work too good when the other players don't know a lick of english or are complete pathological liars. I'm sure there were quite a few people who didn't have T3 exterminate keys but were more than willing to say they did for 3 games.
Games are entirely defined by their preset rules. If I was throwing a football in the middle of a chess match one of those two players is going to be upset.
Yes and it is still a valid consideration, but it should not be an ultimate determinant at the outset that prevents development anytime there is even the slightest potential for it. If everything can be abused, then it is foolish to reject an idea on that basis alone.
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5 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:
No universal vac.
Can you not think about farming for a bit?
Come on, you can switch up stuff in this game super quick. Play 5 missions with the dog or cat then switch to the sentinel. You dont even need vac when playing defense, MD, or survival. You are running over the enemy path all the time in those missions.
However it is that you play the game, do as well. It's not a valid argument.
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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:
I'm sure you hearken back to the good old days where you could spam 4 and get all the loots and not move an inch. Those were....fun(?) times? It also took all the gas out of every other player on your team, but times have changed now. You need to move on.
And yeah we're not getting that kick button to bully 12 year old kids with so better suck it up.
I'm just saying that potential abuse by a small percentage of players shouldn't be the primary focus when you're considering a change otherwise there is no good reason for us to have tools like text and voice chat.
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16 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:
Where to start?
Automatic looting isn't in the game for the exact reason why the void blew up and now you need to collect reactant. Leechers/non-participants.
Shots have a lengthened decay time with dojo upgrade. So if you were ever serious about owning a pet you should have it. It takes two weeks to go critical and even then it gets auto-stasis'd.
The majority of levels aren't designed for Parkour 2.0 either. The old game had limited areas where you could only do ninja tricks there and had a stamina bar messing everything up. And even now there are very few areas that take advantage of le crazy ninja jumping. So saying the game was designed for balls to wall fast speds and efficiency when every other hallway is a dead end designed to waste your time with doors that barely register they need to open when you're standing in front of them is laughable.
Vacuum itself is a band-aid fix for collision issues with loot falling through the floors.
It's also considered a luxury item for a reason. Remember when Carrier used to carry literally everything you could pick up and the ****ing thing looked like a katamari ball but with ear-splitting audio going EEEEeeeeeeeeeee? Wish they brought that back because it was an obvious reminder you don't need to literally pick up everything in the game. You used to when everything was a hockey puck and not color-coded. Nowadays they have visual cues to show you what mods or resources are most valuable.
If you're going to complain about doggos being RNG you might as well complain about arcanes as well.
So poor design logic? I'd agree.
If you're a project head and your primary concern is to degrade your product to account for less than earnest behavior from a tiny subsection of your clientelle, then I don't want to be on your team.
POE farming isn't warframe.
in General
Posted · Edited by JuicyPop
You do realize that this thread is intended for the discussion of the design behind the systems – what they should aspire to – not the workarounds to deal with them in the present?