Probably_Asleep

Not really any fancy Science trivia for this one, it's just based on the general phenomenon of resonance that can affect many different waveform systems. In terms of practicality it's also quite simple: Mag's Primary, Secondary, Melee, Companion Weapon, and Archgun all contribute to the Status Chance of her Abilities Mag's Ability Strength is the starting value of her Ability's Status Chance Status evaluated per Damage Tick: Pull - 1 Magnetic (Immediate) Magnetize (Tap) 2/Sec Magnetic (After Damage absorbed in bubble) 1 Blast (When bubble pops, target must be dead) Magnetize (Held) - 1 Blast (When the fus ro dah happens) Polarize (Wave) 1 Magnetic (On contact with wave) 1 Magnetic (From shield/armor shatter of nearby targets) Polarize (Shards) x/Sec Slash (When shards continue to make contact with enemy) x/Sec Puncture (Same as Slash) Crush - 3 Magnetic (Ability is a 3-hit combo) So as an example: Let's say your equipment has a sum total of 300% Status Chance, and Mag has 200% Ability Strength. If she cast Crush, then it would be 3 hits at 500% Status Chance, meaning she would apply 15 Magnetic Procs to all targets hit by the full attack (maxing out at 10 stacks). Okay so for the justification, I think it's multifaceted: Mag should be applying Magnetic Status, I mean c'mon... Magnetic Status isn't that great on its own, and it maxes out at 10 stacks Polarize (Shards) already create an obscene amount of Slash Procs To be fair though, this would increase the Slash count by a significant margin To be fair(er) though, Polarize could definitely do for a power boost these days You might be able to do something with the Magnetize Blast Damage You'd need to build for it specifically, putting a lot of Status Chance into your weapons With the right builds (that are already optional), the Magnetize explosion can destroy most enemies in one hit anyway So while I do think there are some strategies to get some ridiculous numbers, it's not like that's new to Warframe (or even to Mag). The big thing here though is that Mag should be able to quickly apply many Magnetic procs on enemies. She's Mag after all.

I've been running this solo a lot for the Belly of the Beast perks. Generally speaking I like it a lot, and now that I've run it more than 50 times I think I can narrow in on what I do and don't like about it... 10 Things I Like It's unique! - Circuit and E/DA were just recycled content wrapped in a different navigation menu and peppered with buffs/debuffs. This is new gameplay. There are skills to learn and practice - I've asked for this several times before, and I'm very happy to see it! Much more engaging than just "bring good gun." No real fail condition - Being punished with time delays rather than mission failure encourages better gameplay rather than better builds. Optional Side-Quest - The Sister Beacons is a great touch! I fully support having an extra (but optional) objective that gives extra loot (with extra challenge). A use for Parkour - Finally a game mode that asks me to move like a Ninja! With all the new Parkour Velocity sources, I've been waiting for something like this. Parvos Granum - One of my favorite adversaries, and someone that always acts like he has everything under control. Nice to see him flustered a bit. Solo Experience - I don't know what the Squad Experience is like, but the Solo experience is great! Lots of things to juggle at once and lots of room to improve. Still something to build for - My favorite build decisions involve question like: "How much mobility can I include without sacrificing too much survivability?" No bending down - Things would have gotten stale real quick if I had to watch a bend down animation while picking up every charge. But nope! So high - The scale of the level seems sufficiently epic with how big of a drop it would be if you fall. 10 Things I Don't Green Eximus - I like that they pose a significant threat, but I don't like how incessant that attack is. Having a green strobing light on the screen 90% of the time is... Path-Finding has no idea - Good luck finding a waypoint that you set, and Ayatan Star icons will run you in circles. Hard to find/get charges - The green diamond icon isn't helpful, and the drop rate is quite low; I'm often just killing and killing waiting for a charge to drop. Sticky Edges - There's all these little overhangs and lips that interfere with Parkour. I agree with obstacles in general, but if a wall looks smooth then it should be. Cowardly Sisters - Some Sisters of Parvos have a run-away trait that gets real old real fast. Mote Drop Rate - This is circumstantial, but when I run a Belly of the Beast Alert and get 15 Volatile Motes in 2 minutes, then this mission seems under-rewarded. The Lifts - Those air-jets that fling you upward are annoying. I'd prefer if they were just "+30% Parkour Velocity for 5 Seconds" instead. Status Immunity on Gun Turrets - The gun turrets have decent HP but can't take on status effects, so some weapons can't do anything to them. No Lotus - I get that Rebecca is busy, but Lotus will always be the one I want as my spotter on missions; lure her to the recording studio! Golden Instinct Doesn't Work - I had hoped GI would work for Sister Beacons (it doesn't), but I've also never had it find a single Ayatan Sculpture. A bug maybe? Again though, this is a slam dunk in my opinion. I'd love if new content was always adding something unique to do and learn rather than just a higher HP enemy and a higher damage weapon like some sort of "Here's the keyhole, now buy the key" interaction. Finally, just as a bonus pro/con: Throwing the charges has a pretty high accuracy; it feels great tossing a charge from a distance to keep the elevator moving. But lore-wise I don't like it when Stalker shows up to interfere with the mission; this game mode should be limited to Zanuka and Grustrag.

I am SO in love with Secondary Fortifier! I'm doing some testing and I have zero complaints. (Here's my build, minus the Arcane that's not available in Overframe yet, and I haven't maxed my Progenitor Bonus yet so it's actually 837 Total Damage instead of the 973 shown there) Here are the results of testing: Enemy: 1x Corrupted Heavy Gunner Eximus Level: 175 Steel Path Modifier: Active Aim: Body Shot Results: Exactly when Enemy Overguard was Removed Tenet Cycron Battery Remaining: 42 / 56 Average Time: 1.28 Seconds (Variance probably due to Eximus elemental weaknesses) Self-Overguard Generated: 3229 Additional tests on chained enemies showed it takes about 1.5 seconds for their Overguard to deplete. Finally, I tested it with Headshots and it was (understandably) much faster. Less than 1 Second to remove both the primary target's Overguard, as well as nearby chained Eximus units. I'll say it again: I love this. I'm of the belief that this Arcane is the BEST thing added in Update 36 and a genuine game changer. (Or game "restorer" perhaps?) Here are my reasons: Crowd Control has been really hurt with recent updates Eximus being CC Immune CC Immunity on Augmented Abilities Eximus density increasing Game modes preventing Abilities Equipment power-creep This (admittedly unintended) trend discriminated against players who enjoy puzzles/strategy, in favor of players who prefer build-imitation/button-mashing. (Not passing judgement on anyone's playstyle here, everyone should be able to play the way they want) Considering Warframe's roots and the underlying theme of freedom to choose your own path, this trend felt like a betrayal of the brand Negates many Warframe abilities Frames that need to halt enemies cannot defend targets Only option was relying on equipment or abandoning one's favorite frame This Arcane helps to bring Warframe back to where it was 1 to 2 seconds of aiming to remove Overguard is doable (a fine compromise) Generating Overguard helps tremendously ~6,500 Overguard/sec against multiple Eximus "Gate" stays active as long as Eximus have Overguard Eximus without Overguard can be CC'd Status-immunity on self ensures opportunity to focus and aim It scales with difficulty More Eximus = More survivability CC-frames only need survivability against Eximus Eximus without Overguard are no different than Eximus pre-Update 31.5 Being on Secondary, can help with Last Gasp Does to Overguard what Armor-Strip did to Armor Putting it on a Secondary is a perfect location Secondaries have always been struggling to find a place My Tenet Cycron build (as an example) becomes a perfect utility for softening Neutralizers/Eximus and slowing enemies I could go on gushing about this, but I'm sure you get the idea. This Arcane is well worth the (actually quite cheap) cost in Vestigial Motes. It's such a good fit for CC-frames that I'm worried it's going to be nerfed. Please don't! It's not like it Overguard-strips an entire room and penetrates walls; it's still got its limitations. If you leave it exactly like this then I'll be happy.

Wait, ya! That IS weird. I can't think of any other game mode with unique markers... I'm sure there has to be though... Let me think...

It's been a while! So this Passive idea is based on the concept of frictionless gears using permanent or electromagnets. It allows for force multiplication without physical contact, thus allowing for smaller movements to produce in increasing speeds. Testing shows it's especially effective if the change is gradual because there are no physical "teeth" to prevent skipping (not making it the best for things like vehicle transmissions). The way I'm applying the concept to Mag though is more thematic than literal. (Obviously Mag doesn't have any room beneath that latex to fit a transmission) As Mag performs "silently," she would be gradually building up her performance to maximum efficiency. In terms of an in-universe explanation, we could just say that she's constructing an internal force-multiplying magnetic field that increases in rotation speed which each successful silent action. Once built, she can use that field to enhance her combat efficiency. Now for the practical: Stealth Melee Kills add 5% Permanent Starting Heavy Attack Efficiency Stealth Range Kills add 5% Permanent Starting Ammo Efficiency Stealth Kills after Maximum Efficiency in either Melee/Range add 5% Ability Efficiency Resets on Death Some scenarios: To get to 175% Ability Efficiency without Mods, you'd need to get 35 Melee Stealth Kills (Heavy Attack Efficiency would cap at 20, the remaining 15 would max Ability) If you for 40 Stealth Kills, but 20 of them were Melee and 20 of them were Range, then you wouldn't get any Ability Efficiency until making more kills. And finally, I'll make an argument for why I think this fits with Mag and is not overpowered. It fits with Mag because she's a starter frame, and the beginning missions are much more "stealthy" than end-game content You don't get room nuking frames and weapons until later You don't get the power to blitz content in the form of Forma and Mod (and Endo) until later This would let you compensate for a lack of coverage and power by teaching you precision, skill, and positioning This could give new players a "power fantasy" feel early on, which would help cement their interest in the rest of the game It's not OP because (quite simply) the bar is already too high A permanent 100% Efficiency to Ammo and Heavy Attacks (and+75% to Abilities) is great of course, but there are plenty of damage and energy options already Those other options are available the moment you start the mission This, on the other hand, requires Stealth Kills, which are hard to get solo and impossible to get in a squad Not many missions have situations where you can get Stealth Kills, and less so are the missions where it would be worth spending the time to get a lot. I think it would go very well with endless missions, but you'd need a way to get stealth kills first. Could synergize with Rest and Range maybe. I'm sure it would be a beast of a passive after get it spun up though. Just imagine a Tenet Arca Plasmor with 100% Ammo Efficiency or the Glaive Prime with 100% Heavy Attack Efficiency.

Fair point. I think with enough practice my eyes will be able to spot the difference quick enough. I've just become spoiled from the minimap. Like with Excavation, I of course could just visually scan for power cells, but I like to look first at the map to know where they are at generally first. It reduces a 360 degree search into a specific direction. (Same with Enemy Radar, now that I think about it; I remember when that wasn't universally available and I had to spot everyone visually for the first missions)

It's a fun mission, but I'm having trouble seeing the green energy canisters amidst the green everything else. Could you put an icon on the mini map like with Excavation? Thanks!

Xaku, I can see that. Interesting DR, extra movement speed, lots of damage, and subsequent DR from void bubbles. As a Mag-main I can get behind Xaku's concept of bubbles and guns. Agreed on the aim glide; I love it but I rarely see people talk about it. Probably because if people want aerial mobility they just bring Titania. My one-frame game pushes me to use discount versions of mechanics that have entire frames dedicated to it. (Not that I'm complaining, I enjoy exploring those niches) Also agree on the augment comments. There's an obvious enthusiasm from DE about augments that you can see in their livestreams, and it's kind of humorous to me because it's clear that most of the community would prefer a rework over giving up Mod space. I think Augments make sense when they have pros and cons like Mag's "Magnetized Discharge" augment; I like the range/disarm, but I sometimes avoid it if I want to cast bubbles through bubbles (or bubbles on bubbles to maintain a defensive zone). But Augments do not make sense when they're just straight upgrades like Mag's "Fracturing Crush" augment; that increases casting speed and strips armor... when would someone not want that? Rolling's DR is pretty nice. I meant though that the button itself doesn't do anything when you're mid-roll, so I think it's fine to add a roll-cancel feature to it. But to your point, long rolls don't serve much of a purpose when we have bullet jumping available. And actually bullet jumping can be cancelled with a double jump! So yeah, I think rolling could use some development attention. I loved 100 Days of Warframe! My sense of humor is very much into the applying real life common sense to fantasy situations. Like just how many babies must Corpus be producing to keep up with even one player account? (Let alone tens of thousands of Tenno) There are likely days where 10-million Corpus die, but their operations aren't affected at all. Meanwhile here in reality, one pandemic cost us less than that and it very nearly crippled global society. So then I start going down this rabbit hole of speculating how a civilization spread throughout the solar system might be able to produce 10-million soldiers on a daily basis while also producing logistics, domestics, leadership, and civil service... anyway yes, I love that animation. "The funniest thing" in a creepy sad-clown-face kind of way. Like: "They're useless! But the funny part is how expensive they are despite that! HAHAHaHahahahaha..." *starts sobbing* I'm also still a little miffed but the major nerf to the one useful perk the Topaz had. (The alternate way to shield gate) I'm 99% positive it actually was an intended mechanic until they saw how useful it could be and decided to kill it. There's no way the entire development team forgot to check if a shield generating feature had any relationship to shield gating. And they didn't have to nerf it as bad as they did. They could have at least made it something like "only applies to melee weapons" so that way you still have to be up close and personal with enemies and ranged attacks can take you out if you can't get close enough in time. I have a few Yellow installs for adding parkour velocity to my spy/Maroo builds. You know that Corpus Spy Vault that has the multi-story glass box in the center of an even larger room? You go in from the top and then dodge the lasers as you drop down one level at a time. Well anyway, with some TF Amber Shards, you can bullet jump upward and get to the top of the glass box in a single leap, which allows me to make it past all the security cameras and personnel during the invisibility duration of the Untraceable mod. Very specific use case, but a use case nonetheless! Generally though I like having one frame dedicated to crazy far bullet jumps just so I can have some loadouts ready for missions like those where speed is more important than survival or combat.

Even if they just had a "Lure Specter" that could be deployed to give you that one extra lure it would be helpful. Especially if that lure started off fully charged without any need for Vomvalysts. In terms of what it did in other missions... maybe it could just have an incredibly high aggro priority and very high HP that scaled with enemy level.

Interesting! I LOVE me some Range! Which frames do you usually use? That's true, there's kind of a wasteland forming between the Early Game and the End Game. I do love the cinematic quests, but those take so much effort on DE's behalf to create. I've noticed this with EDA especially. There's no build freedom; it feels more like there's a single correct answer to solve the problem rather than it being open ended. I have to dedicate a lot of space to survivability strategies that do not rely on abilities, which in turn means I need to mod my weapons to achieve a reasonable KPM without having the benefit of abilities. No abilities and no freedom in weapon choice really kills the fun for me; it was nice to figure it out once as a puzzle of sorts, but when every week it's just the same puzzle with the same basic solution. I feel you on this one. I've found a lot of uses for a long zero gravity aim glide, but the dual mod cost is always felt. I wouldn't mind if the Aura mod that gave us +6 seconds glide duration also gave us zero gravity (in place of the -24% damage while airborne); although it's an aura slot so that would mean -400% glide on a full squad... maybe instead put +6 seconds onto the Aero Vantage mod... ALSO feel you on this one. While I love Mag's abilities, her Augments are too useful to pass up in most builds. But at least Mag can get by without them if needed (I don't have any in my EDA builds). Other frames though are not as fortunate. That's actually what prompted one of my other threads I think. I'd love for there to be an individual "Frame Campaign" mode that upon completing it you get to turn your augments into toggle-widgets instead that don't cost Mod space. And thereafter any new Augments becomes a toggle for you as soon as you obtain the Mod for it from a syndicate or wherever. Actually for rolling, wouldn't it be great if they let you just cancel the roll midway through? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the roll button isn't serving any purpose when you're in the roll animation itself, right? I'd love if a roll could be double-tapped to make short roll. Because ya Parkour Velocity really makes rolling insane at a certain point. It's like a superhero origin story where the main character is still getting used to their increased strength and speed. It'd also be nice to have Exodia Contagion build with more mid-air jumps. I'd love to see the kind of numbers with Duviri Decrees. (Although actually I've never seen Zaws available in Duviri...) I can see what you're saying though. The shards feel more needed as more content gets added. One could say that's just a Band-Aid solution to underlying problems, but that's sort of what power creep is; just a bunch of small changes and then little fixes to keep things sane enough. And shards do help with that. Adding on to this: I've confirmed in testing that using the Green Corrosive stack boost against Necramechs does nothing useful. Damage Attenuation prevents higher DPS anyway, but there's also a bug (if it's not intentional) where the Necramech won't lose more than 4-stacks worth of armor from Corrosive even if the UI shows 14 or more stacks near its health bar. The +10 or more stacks do strip Acolyte armor fully, but there are plenty of other options for those guys.

A Dirac String is a concept proposed by a physicist by that name. It's an idea that allows for the existence of magnetic monopoles through separation of the end points. It's also a big question in physics because monopoles should exist but we can't find them. Well let's just say Mag has a little more insight on magnetism than the scientists of our day. In practical application, this would register the point where you've last touched the ground, and upon leaving the ground (mostly via jumping) you build up a boost based on your distance from that anchor point. All stats would be boosted from HP, Shields, Armor, to Ability Stats; the only ones that wouldn't get boosted would be mid-air jump count and aim-glide duration. There are already natural limitations to this, so it wouldn't need a built-in limitation. For example, to get +100% boost, you'd need to travel 100m from your anchor point. That's not impossible, but it would require some effort, environment, and preparation. The boost reset when you touch the ground, but not the walls, so if you're really good at parkour then it might be possible to create a massive boost to your stats. I'd love to see the extremes that skilled players take this to.

Haha! Your efficiency is unbeatable!

Haha! Fair enough. I was sort of joking about the bees/rats/moles attack, but it's true there are some multi-level environments. I wouldn't necessarily put either of them in S-Tier. I think their value depends on the frame and the mission. Even 175% efficiency is useless in most EDA levels that restrict power usage entirely or drain energy constantly, and Range isn't often included in Rhino builds. (I don't actually know much about other frames, so I did some digging through Overframe) I know with my Mag I would love them, but I'd only need one +15% efficiency while I would probably want multiple range boosts if I could get them. This is one of my most loved features of the forum, because I genuinely think it's a perfect system and it really excites me to see contradictory points of view. So for starters, I'd say all abilities that deal damage should be capped to something (I said 40m but that's negotiable). Abilities that deal zero damage like Golden Instinct, Roar, and so on would not have a range cap. I do agree that CC abilities could be used to troll the rest of the squad. I'm in the camp of letting players settle things among themselves at first. Usually any nerf to an ability because a few are using it to troll results in the majority of friendly players suffering from the nerf. But I won't deny that some things could get abused and if it becomes widespread there should be measures taken. As I see it, the primary complaint against high-range abilities applies only to the abilities that start with high base ranges. Mag's Magnetize has a base range of 5, so multiplying that by 3 is only going to get it to 15. But her Crush is 18, so that would go up to 54. So to cap all range percentage would be punishing Magnetize much more than Crush. But to cap total effect range instead will punish only Crush (because Magnetize is probably never going to get to the effect cap). To me it makes sense that the "punishment" (nerf) should be placed on the abilities that cause complaint, and the low-range abilities should be left out of it. To reach an effect cap of 40m for Magnetize, you'd need +700% Range, which is probably never going to happen; so if you're building around Magnetize then you'd be free to pile as much Range boost as you want. But to reach 40m on Crush you'd only need +60% Range; so if you wanted to build around Crush then you'd put 60% into Range and then use the rest of your Mod space for whatever else. It's a similar decision to Efficiency. You could put more than +75% on, but you just don't because you know it's a waste of Mod space. That's a good point, but I do have one counter to this. If theoretically you were in a squad playing on separate ends of the map, then something like a 500m Nuke ability would nuke their room as well. To your point though that wouldn't apply in solo runs. But generally I think there's a clear mathematical difference between continuously adding to Efficiency vs Range.

Fantasy I'll start with thanking you for taking the time to go into more detail about this; it's a well thought out analysis. Temporary I'm also not a fan of the way Invigorations work. I didn't read up on it before I got it and installed it, and my imagination vs the reality was SO different. The in-game description reads: "Allows The Helminth to inject a Warframe with an invigoration. Invigorations temporarily increase a Warframe's capabilities." And so naturally I thought it would be something like spending some resources to get a few hours boost to some stat. But NOPE! Not even close! Universality Fair and noted! Community First time I've seen someone use the word bologna on this forum. Not sure if that mean's I just haven't been in the right circles, but all the same I'm a fan of word variety. I did half expect this as the initial answer. While I don't play in a squad because I like play games to escape human interaction, it didn't take much imagination to suppose what would happen in a situation where everyone wants to contribute but one player removes that possibility. Probability That makes sense, a momentary craziness is much more tolerable than a permanent annoyance. We had my sister in law stay with us and my wife was dealing with it ok until her sister started asking if it could be a permanent arrangement because she didn't want to deal with the hassle of apartment shopping. That's when the siblings started fighting like siblings. Monotony Also reasonable. I've heard that Octavia isn't played despite her potential to be permanently invisible and highly scalable solely due to the monotony of the playstyle (ironic considering she's a music frame). Because I only play Mag, the abilities I'm used to require a lot of mental exertion. Choosing when, where, and how to apply abilities is an action puzzle that I find very engaging, but none of her abilities are meant to kill by themselves. I still need to see, shoot, strip, and stockpile while also constantly monitoring all elements of the UI. So it's hard to imagine high range being a problem for my frame, but I was anticipating that wouldn't hold true for every frame. Geometry Believe it or not I did think of that. I even googled nuclear bomb blast radii because I was going to make an illustration. (Then I remembered I'm doing this on my work computer and thought I should probably not go too far down that rabbit hole) And while I do agree with math, I think circumstances kind of negate this point. The difference between the area of a circle and the volume of a sphere aren't going to matter unless you have a swarm of bees forming an alliance with rats and moles to attack you from all 3 dimensions. An argument could be made that more affected coordinates result in higher CPU draw, but games should be optimized to process on an entity-by-entity basis. Of course I don't know how Warframe is constructed though so I could be completely wrong about that. Popularity I see this as both a good and bad thing. Bad obviously because the existence of an S-Tier anything lowers the value of everything else. But also good because these should be S-Tier items! They're combined Archon Shards! At the very least they should be better than the two shards you had to spend to get it. Infinity On the first question, I think the cap shouldn't be on the percentage, but instead on the effect itself. With Mods, Shards (fantasy TF-Topaz x5), Arcane Helm, Invigoration, and Fissure, Mag should be able to get to 960%, which would make her bubble with a radius of 48m. Obviously a big bubble! But it's still only about as big as other already-existing abilities that can nuke a room. So let's just say that all offensive abilities get capped at a 40m radius. If someone has enough percentage to put them over that, it gets ignored. But for non-offensive abilities like Golden Instinct, it can get as big as you want. That would be my preference. Then the abilities that already start at a high base wouldn't encourage modding much range, but the low-base abilities could be elevated to match the other wide AoE scales. But now about the efficiency thing. While of course I'd love to 200% Efficiency (or even >200% Efficiency so I get energy back from using abilities), I think 75% is reasonable. Furthermore I'd say it's an apples to oranges comparison with Range. Getting to "infinite casts" would only take 100 efficiency points from Mods, but getting to "infinite range" would be impossible even if DE let us stack as many of the same Mod as we wanted on top of each other. There's a big difference between the race to zero vs the race to infinity. And it would be incomparable in a practical sense as well. Efficiency has an upward curve in its return; 100 to 101 is just a 1% savings, whereas 198 to 199 is 50% savings, and the next percent becomes vertical toward infinity. Range on the other hand is a diminishing return; 100 to 101 increases range by 1%, whereas 200 to 201 increases range by 0.5%, and the only infinite percentage would be the difference between 0 and 1 Range. (Sorry, the numbers got to me)

This is a strong point, there are definitely advantages and disadvantages spread between the two reloads. A 5 second reload would be terrible, but even a 1 second reload where nothing happens is less damage than something. A Primary/Secondary swap is roughly 0.3 seconds (which might be less than reload times on some weapons), and a Range/Melee swap is instantaneous (which might be irrelevant if an enemy is out of melee range). I do agree it's not always (or often) a 1-to-1 comparison. True (Third draft, just can't shrink this down enough...) Okay so I think my basic point is that a precedent is simply a relevant past decision. DE initially said in Update 26 that no-swap-reload is DPS, but swap-reload is Utility. But then Update 32 dropped 0.5-seconds off the swap, increasing Holster-refill DPS. It increased further with the introduction of more powerful secondaries. Those more recent decisions let DPS increase through Exilus mods; a new precedent. Jade Shadows might reverse this trend by doubling down on the earlier Exilus classification from Update 26, but that's not actually my point. My point is that it is a reversal. We were allowed to increase DPS through Exilus mods, which violated the original principle behind it. DE could either take a reformist or fundamentalist stance on that violation. My vote is that they reform the principle and consider all forms of magazine refill to be utilitarian even if it has some combat benefits. If I seem curt it's only because I do my best to match my response size. I did like the points you're making and don't at all consider it quibbling.