Kasseopea
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Posts posted by Kasseopea
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thats what the skin is, its what she looked like BEFORE she was worked on.
The thing is - it would have a bitter taste to it. Ofc, you could say its the "rescued" Valkyr, so basically one that was never caught by corpus or freed before the experiments began.
Just seems to be a bit strange to turn this feline warframe into schroedinger's cat, since she would exist in two forms at the same time this way, rather than being actually restored as a logical continuation of her story.
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Well that would depend on the player, we create a Valkyr suit based on the parts and data that we recover when defeating Alad V. That suit is twisted in it's very nature. If a player has that suit and then gets the skin then they could be constructing the missing parts after acquiring more data or building the original Tenno suit from scratch, there is no functional difference.
The constructing part is pretty meta though. It would mean our enemies already have all the blueprints and parts we consist of, as they drop them.
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So Morec0, is there a definitive Yes or No as to whether Valkyr's powers before and after the Zanuka Project are the same? A definitive Proven/Disproven/Still a hypothesis?
If the modern Valkyr indeed has powers different from the original one, unearthing the Seer lore and making a ruckus out of it is a profitable in-lore way to Prime the modern Valkyr; bring forth the frame which was before her; and Prime non-Tenno weapons.
It's a win-win-win.
Well, it's a win-win-win for us, but more work for DE. Besides - prime non-tenno weapons? How? Oo
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*Facepalm* ok, fine, you win. Seriously, if DE would show you an orange and tell its a lamborghini aventador, you would jump at anyone's throat with the steelward argument that they have the same color and the DE said so.
And the warframe are technocyte infested, if you would take a second to look at them.
Whatever, BTT, as i said - you totally win and Dark Sector is totally not explaining like half the stuff in Warframe they try to keep mysterious. I don't think this discussion will end in any civilized matter otherwise.
So, Valkyr.
Her skills are (and i think we are about the same opinion on this one for the most part) rather changed. Ripline is from her arm attachments - its mechanical. Shield discharge is the same paralyze as the Corpus use in the Alad V trailer. Hysteria is due to her pain and rage, which is torture induced. Warcry - k, could have been her normal skill.
The thing that bothers me the most about it is - Tenno clearly sustain injuries on a daily basis. They have to. So there has to be some way to heal / repair them. Now it might be, that their armor - which is made of some sort of organic material covering their whole body, which is basically soft metal but totally not technocyte - repairs itself. In any case - why did they not remove the foreign objects out of Valkyr? I know the meta-reason is because they designed her this way and thought it was cool, but ingame it doesn't make much sense. Bolts, cables & pins inside her muscles and half her skull / mask removed can't be very healthy.
Basically - why wasn't she fixed up in the first place?
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It also sure as hell ain't the same Nemesis from Dark Sector - I.E. not missin' a whole damn arm. Which if you want to be as strict as you are about it means:
1) It's JUST a reference skin.
or
2) The Nemesis user from this universe had a different styled Warframe.
As for your "DE says a lot of things", I'm sorry, but that just ruins every bit of credibility your argument could ever have. You're basically saying YOU know the universe better than the people who are MAKING IT, that YOU are above the author. That comment alone shows the arrogance you're approaching this all with; as I said earlier, you're choosing your own headcanon over the words of the creators themselves. You're an embodiment of arrogance in this situation, and little else.
They've never said Excalibur is a followers of Hayden Tenno. Nowhere has that been said.
The Glaive (the BASE glaive, mind you, not the Dark Sector reference-skin) is NOT the same, it's a VERY different look. Same with Excalibur. Same with Nyx. Same with EVERYTHING in that; hell, I've already pointed out that Warframe's Dark Sectors were named BASED ON A MOVEMENT IN THE COMMUNITY, NOT straight from DE (they were called "Badlands" before, I believe). Even the Lotus symbol is given a new meaning - from going from the black market to a matronly guide. Even the Technocyte virus, the crux of your argument, isn't the same. Compare how the Infested in this game look - soft, fleshing, meaty - to the Infested of Dark Sector - metallic, hard, carapace like. Every example you put out IS SO DIFFERENT IT'S NOT FUNNY.
Also, you may want to check your "directly from the wiki" link again:
There's a fitting trope for this... ah, yes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HoistByHisOwnPetard
Yeah, lots of words. Hey, how about the Warframe wiki?
"According to the Official Tenno Alphabet Cipher, the design on Excalibur's right shoulder is in fact a word that spells out "Hayden Tenno". The same word can be found on top of Excalibur's head." - Yeah, i dont see any connection to Hayden Tenno either. Must be a f-ing coinsidence.
Besides, the technocyte virus IS the same - Hayden's arm is more durable and Nemesis is bulletproof. Im not sure you even played the game. If technocyte wasnt soft, Warframes couldnt move, so there you go. I don't really know where you see "metallic" technocyte either, aside from prime stuff. Most frames barely reflect light at all and it looks rather like rubber.
And glaive being different - yeah, right, because they look totally different. Glaive prime looks differnt, but normal glaive and Dark Sector glaive look almost the same aside from tiny differences.
As alredy said - i simply think that they want to keep up the mistery about the Tenno, because if Dark Sector would be admitted to be the prequel, it would mean that Tenno are human (as well as the Orokin. The wiki even states "The Tenno are descendants of an ancient and mystical civilization of lost warriors from the Orokin era on Earth" - although im sure its a coinsidence Tenno are human-sized, antropomorph, have 5 fingers including a tumb and resemble humans in suits in any other way. Ofc they are not like Hayden Tenno)
Has something of a streetmagician having cards falling out of his sleeve but nevertheless trying to perform the trick and make a card "show up" out of "nowhere" - same here, one day it will be "OMG, OROKIN ARE HUMAN" and people who played Dark Sector and read the WHOLE lore will be sitting there like "...oh...wow...yeah, totally didn't see that coming, yawn. Wanna go one with the Sentient plot again? Yeah? Thanks"
[Arkham Knight Spoiler]
Btw - The devs of Arkham Knight said that a certain character who EVERYONE suspected wasnt Arkham Knight and instead they would make a new character. Guess who Arkham Knight truly is. Sorry to crush your unfathomable faith in devs, but they are human as the Tenno (BOOOOM)
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are you trolling or are you the not very very smart one? DE themselves have said that DS has nothing to do officially with warframe, this has been said a couple times, just because in your mind it does doesnt mean it has anything to do, while there is infuence, its not connected by lore
Dark Sectors were actually renamed due to fan input, I think.
As for "what's under the Warframe", you have to remember that Hayden Tenno was a VERY different person from what the Tenno we play as in-game are. Hayden was never exposed to the Void, our Tenno were. Hayden only ever had his one war, our Tenno can switch between various frames at will. Warframe's Tenno are VERY different creatures from Hayden Tenno and Nadia Sudek of Dark Sector.
And there's no confirmation that we were in-game, named after Hayden Tenno. You're making base assumptions when there's only circumstantial evidence to support it. DE's said that the games are largely unconnected, there's no strong link between the two.
But it is NOT a sequel. That much is FACT. DE has NEVER used the word "Sequel" in response to Warframe, only "Spiritual Successor", you can try and put words in their mouth all you want, but...But in the end there's no similar themes, no similar characters, no similar locations, and only a few holdover names from the original - Technocyte, Tenno; and, hell, that's it! - it's LESS of a Sequel than Bioshock Infinite was to the other Bioshock games, and THAT was ALSO billed as a Spiritual Successor.
Then i guess Nemesis was also a very different person? Because she turned into a warframe aswell and was a "normal" woman before.
And sorry, but DE says a lot of things - Year of Quality™ in example.
No idea whether the story writer changed or something else happened, but there are SO many connections.
Demon's Souls -> Dark Souls -> Bloodborne - Thats a spiritual successor. Stuff works the same way, but its a completely different setting, naming and overall plot.
Dark Sector and Warframe has literally the same stuff - the Glaive anyone? Why make Proto Ex & Nemesis Nyx? It was even in the text of the skin, that it was in honor of Hayden Tenno - the first Tenno. Lotus symbol?
Btw - here is it, directly from the wiki:
http://darksector.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Sector
It was never confirmed, but neither was it denied, because it would be really, really difficult to deny a continuity, if they already said that Ex is a follower of Hayden and that Tenno are named after Hayden Tenno. No idea how to say it more cleary.
IF Warframe had nothing to do with Dark Sector, they would have written the lore differently. As it is now Ex's story is DIRECTLY tied to Dark Sector, we have Dark Sector sectors, the Proto Glaive, Proto Ex, Nemesis Nyx, Lotus and the technocyte virus being exactly the same. This is not how "spiritual successor" works. Until they rewrite the lore, rename items and the virus, remove those skins and some other stuff, the connections are there.
My guess is that they simply have a different Storywriter now and he wants to write his own story, kind of like those 20 differnt spiderman comics from different authors, who all claim they have nothing to do with each other.
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Its just a skin, but this power rework could really come in to play in the Prime version.
We know from the Lore that Valkyr now, isn't the same as pre-corpus Valkyr.
And there was a question like that said in one DevStream to Steve, "will Prime Valkyr be the same as corpus Valkyr , or not?" and from what I remember the answer was "we don't know yet" face and shoulder move from Steve.
I would like to see a rework for Valkyr for Prime version but for a skin I don't see them doing it.
What would be possible though, is that we get the Healed Valkyr / Pre-Corpus Valkyr AND a Prime Valkyr under a different name together. Maybe Valkyr was more of a project name than the real name of the frame, thus they might release a completely different frame, that has a different name, different abilities and is primed, but based on Valkyr choronologically outgame, while Valkyr is based on her chronologically ingame.
You know, since Corpus did some nazi-level crap to her, they might as well used the same naming conventions. After all she is the only one having sort of divine name, while all the other frame are named after they speciality. Valkyr's speciality isn't bringing fallen warrior to Valhalla, so why the name? Frost, Rhino, Ember, Nova, Limbo, Loki (trickster) - its all about their functionality, only Valkyr is "out of the ordinary"
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Are The Ghostbusters 4 men or 4 women? The groups in the 2016 movie and the 1984 movie have the same name so they must be the same right?
Obviously not.
Reboots/spiritual sequels can reuse ideas without having any canon connection in-world. the events of Dark Sector did no happen in the past of the Warframe universe, maybe something similar did, maybe not. All we do know 100% is that DS is not canon to Warframe.
Nice strawman argument there, but point stands - same weapons, same virus, same enemies. We even have 2 skins from that game (Nemesis Nyx is from there aswell), as well as names taken over. Warframe is not a reboot, its a sequel.
Problem is, they want to create a new plot that is totally cool and awesome, so they go "nooo, there is totally no connection between the game Dark Sector and Warframe. Oh, have we already told you about those maps we call DARK SECTOR?! Yeah, no connection there either."
Also, they have to keep Warframes mysterious, but in Dark Sector you could clearly see that humans were underneath.
So far all the did is go bloogy-woogey-woo and tell us that what little of story we had is meaningless - without creating any story on their own as of yet. Don't get me wrong, puzzling a story together is awesome when its done right, like in the Souls-series, but here?
And yes, it is canon, because it IS a fact that Tenno were named after Hayden Tenno, so there is SOME sort of connection, whether you like it or not. Sure, maybe thousands of years passed, but it does not change the facts. If Dark Sector had no connection to Warframe, we wouldnt get reminders from the Devs all the time.
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No just no, dark sector has nothing to do with warframe lore wise, get your facts straight
Yes, yes it does a lot. The virus is the same (technocyte) and the Tenno are called Tenno because of Hayden Tenno. Can't tell if troll or just very very not smart. There are like 50 connections lorewise.
New powers would be awesome, but i doubt the DE will take up the work needed for it. Let's face it, it would be the same as making a completely new Warframe, which they wont.
However, the skins name defines the lore at this point. We either get a phantom that is not really there anymore or a restored Valkyr with removed scars.
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Any DE who would post his thoughts on this?
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It's a skin. This is what she looked like before the corpus, it is not her current state, it does not affect the lore. It's like someone saying that proto Excal must be different because that version is the unstable prototype but it's not different because it's a skin. He should glow then explode when activating his fourth XD
DE wouldn't do a restored Valkyr because that treads into the vandel/wraith territory were the tenno (vandel) or people (wraith) mess with various weapons. Doing a restored Valkyr would open the door to vandel/wraith frames.
As for abilities, they don't appear to be able to change. The whole Zariman incident leads me to believe that the abilities are ingrained into the child. Meaning that nothing short of changing something like their dna is going change the abilities. Though due other frames manipulating elements it makes me think these abilities are like a muscle. Which would explain the wrist spikes going through/breaking the restraint.
"Orokin broke her"
Well it's a possibility. I mean their experiments were brutal enough to require a morgue specifally for tenno. According to the codex entries they would of been born and raised as an experimental weapon. Education in language might of been little which would explain their silence or silence was part of their training. Either way their lives would of been brutal and harsh. So really we could explain Valkyr's case in a lot of ways. It's not hard to see she could of been a berserker before the corpus. Which would mean that all the corpus achieved was make her lose control of that state of mind. Meaning that the berserker in her would be more in control of her than her normal self.
Only that Proto-Excal IS supported by the lore - he was the first and the follower of Hayden Tenno, who looked very similar to that. So yes, it is very possible that this was Ex's first look which then developed into the Ex we know now.
Now to the theory: If the Orokin originally tortured her into being Valkyr as we know her - why is her body intact? Mental / Non-Invasive torture? Might be, but why would the powers be the same then? And if the Corpus were following the results of the Orokin, why was their result different?
The way i see it - there are many, many dormant Warframes - i.e. the ones we are guarding in Defense missions. My suggestion is that Valkyr was one of them, got captured and turned into the mess she is now. There was no "orokin" Valkyr at all and the one we will get as skin, is a Valkyr that got repaired and restored.
Problem with that is, she is an exception, since she came from the Corpus labs rather than some time-rift (Limbo) or because of stuff & reasons (Mirage). Ofc we will eventually get a Valkyr Prime, which means they will have to imagine a story as to why she already was like this before.
But as some already stated - there are tons of plotholes and "mysteries" in the lore, as well as collisions with gameplay.
In any case - i would find it more logical and appealing that Lotus found a way to repair Valkyr. It doesn't make much sense that she is still running around with BOLTS through her arms and legs. Aside from being painful it has to be movement restricting and a structural weakpoint.
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Pure Valkyr FTW
Sounds awesome too XD
It's a restored look, not a different frame.
Kind of the whole point of my plea - give us a restored Valkyr, not her former Shadow that is gone.
(g2g2 sleep, keep up the discussion until im back :P)
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This. Valkyr's mental scars could in lore be explained not just by the corpus tortures but also during the old war. ALL Tenno were treated as weapons and subjected to horrors beyond belief. This would also explain how one Tenno that can swap suits can channel a Valkyr suit's abilities that are fueled by the users grief and rage.
Fair enough, but why would the Orokin intentionally break one of their very, very expensive (if not valuable) soldiers? Read Mag Prime's lore - only one was sent with an entire fleet.
A 4-Tenno squad is basically an army - after all, we kill thousands of Orokin-Controlled entities without much effort.
If Valkyr actually had some abilities, why crush her mental health? And even if they did so - how would they know whether she would stay stable and most importantly - loyal enough to control her on a battlefield?
The Corpus? Sure, stuff they do would make even Mengele proud, but Orokin? They were truly intelligent, calculating, precise. Their only weakness was arrogance. They wouldn't create a psychopathic warframe that is driven only by suffering and hatred, because the first thing she did would probably tear her teammates apart.
And one more thing - the Warframes came back from the Void. If Valkyr came from the void - thus from the Orokin - and if she already had her abilities - since the Orokin did that to her in the first place - why would the Corpus keep torturing her? It just doesn't add up.
Unless you are saying Warframes are not unique, but then it would be a tremendous coinsidence that Corpus decide to torture Valkyr just as Orokin did. (I feel so damn sorry for her, just want to cuddle her Q_Q)
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you can't heal mental scars
1. Yes you can. Slowly, with a lot of love and care. ^^
2. That's part reason why she keeps her abilities, but NOT her looks
See, why should she have had them BEFORE being tortured?
Who said her abilities before she was tortured weren't the same as the ones she has, but slightly different in how they manifest? Ripline is fine as-is. Warcry gets a more valiant warrior tone, instead of rage. Paralysis gets the same treatment as Warcry. Maybe add a shield bash in there somewhere(paralysis was originally called Shield Bash). Hysteria can stay as claws, because the cat likeness is still apparent in the new design. Not even lore-breaking.
She looks like a cat, and sure, some cats can be mean, but going Berserk? None of her abilities fit a cat. Or have you seen a cat shoot a ripline and go up a tree with it?
If at all, something like a continuous wall-run or bleeding-damage would make sense, not undying rage and paralysing enemies with your shields, with a wave that looks like corpus tech. (as well as the ripline she shoots from her arm-attatchments)
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Let me explain. If you read the abilities and lore of Valkyr, it is stated that some of her abilities if not all came from the torture, the pain and the dispair. Her abilities are:
Ripline: Looks mechanical rather than a natural Warframe ability
Warcry & Paralysis: Both acts of dispair. The first one puts you and you teammate into a frenzy, the second forfeits defense in order to paralyse (Probably similar technique we seen in the Alad V Trailer, when Mag was paralyzed)
Hysteria: Self-explanatory.
My point being - her "real" abilities, the ones that she had prior to her capture are sadly lost and the ones she got, were aquired while being tormented.
Now if we look at her close, we still see tubes, bolts and other mechnical parts embedded in her body.
Since she keeps her abilities, but changes her looks into that of a healthy, healed warframe, i think it would make more sense to name the skin "Healed" or "Awakened" or something along the lines.
At least it would F*** less with the lore. Just my opinion though, im hyped as hell for her new skin. To be honest i never could play her, because i always had to think of what she had been through and because of all those scars that were left on her body.
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AWESOME^^ I hated the fact that she was tortured into insanity, now i can finally play her^^
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I just hope that Ember is next on their rework table - the Ex and Frost buffs are so massive, she would finall become viable again
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Sooo...DE...how about giving us those instead of the recolors we keep getting.
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Because it stems from the reason the combos don't have any meaning to use. They dont produce any different size or shape waves vs spamming e and they're harder to perform.
Infact, exalted blade shows why combos need to be looked at on a whole.
Combos are a whole deferent theme, one that will not be adressed by DE ever, because it would mean they would have to rework them and give us Melee 3.0
Problem is - most combos are almost stationary. Hmm, what do you not want to be in a high-lv mission? Let me thing. I guess...stationary? So yeah, that double-backflip-spin-slash-kick looked awesome, sorry to inform you that meanwhile a bombard gave you a rocket for a gag-ball and you are dead.
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Yeah, and you will need buttonium to craft them - you get 1 as a 10% drop from a raid mission and you will need 500 for one sharkwing.
At least thats what Year of Quality™ has shown so far - more grind and then some grind more.
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Because Excalibur crawled up from that dark dank hole of obscurity only to be kicked down back into the hole by people who haven't even bothered actually playing the frame long enough to see the weakness of the frame. You have played Excalibur into the late game, you know that his waves can kill garbage mobs easily and tickle the S#&$ out of heavy units.
Late game? Which would be? Wave 5000?
As i said, we had an ex in a T4 defense - pretty fckn late game i would guess - and he still 1-2-hit-killed elite mobs at wave 40.
Yeah, so low damage, much wow. A warframe dealing more damage than a 6-forma-Opticor with basically 0 energy cost? Yeah, right.
Point is - he is the only frame capable of that. Either make other frames as strong, or nerf him.
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Ofc Archwing is dead.
1. No cover
2. Clumsy handling
3. No OP-skills
4. If you want to hit stuff with ranged, you have to stay still = getting hit
5. Low-lv missions are boring, high-lv missions deadly
6. CQC is a bouncy-castle-nightmare
7. You can't show off if your mates are a kilometer away.
It was fun for a while but quickly became boring. Odonata is more or less useless as it eats too much energy for anything at all, Elytron is too hard to get and the 3rd wing needs tellurium, which is about as easy to come by as an honest politician.
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And this is why people are asking for nerfs... their egos are hurt. The frame is not defensively any better than others, but in the hands of a veteran (and there are many excal veterans, after all, he is the first frame) the offensive is kind of too much, a notch at least. Damage is probably going to be toned down, so kills are not that fast.
Yes, because if someone wants to balance out something, its because they are egocentric asswipes. Good job, you take the price "Most ignorant fcker of this thread". You DO understand that everyone can easily get him, right? It's not like an MMO, where you cant access the full potential of a class until you played for months - one could literally get him in 1 day.
A notch too much? He easily ripped apart bombards with 1-3 waves at 35-40 waves in a T4. Don't give me that bull, he is clearly overpowered.
The only ones matching his output are Trinity with life-link, Mag with her shield-explosion-mod and Mirage. All 3 however have heavy limitation as to what the can actually do with it. Ex just runs around, spams his blades and everything dies. He doesnt even have to aim properly, just spam it in the appoximate direction and something will get killed.
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To complement my previous statement, Excal today is a rare breed of frame because:
- He is powerful, he can clear the map, but contrary to other frames, you have to actually play to get there
- He is fun
- He has CC, offensive ability and mobility, in other words, all his powers are useful
- He works extremely better in the hands of an skilled player
- He has matching stats for the role he is now taking
- He is a team player, his CC benefits all members in the squad
So, he is powerful, not OP, because he is a pack of good things put together, stop blaming his ultimate, for once DE showed up an incredible amount of though to one work under their belt, give us a little time to enjoy it while it lasts.
Point is he can easily solo entire waves of mobs without any effort whatsoever. He can also take down nullifiers with his powers - you know, those guys who are supposed to be immune to powers. Then the punchthrough, then the damage, then the low energy costs. Its just too much at once
Shouldn't Pre-Corpus Valkyr Be "healed" Valkyr?
in General Discussion
Posted
This. I get some of the stuff, but they could at least cover some of the body damage.
And one more thing - Lotus seems to know about every fart of Corpus, Grineer and Infested, but somehow they managed to oversee Valkyr for so long? It seems pretty unreal.
Try not to win all the orginality prizes at once