[Ember's World on Fire]

Why not simply double tab 4 a few times per minute? If it is not about damage you could easily use Vauban, Banshee or Frost for more CC then damage orientated frames.

Il y a 6 heures, paul5473 a dit :

Better idea is just to either revert her or completely give her new kit

Why should they revert it? The idea was that you do not run into WoF Ember in every single low level mission what they archived, even if it is a placebo change at best, similar like the initial toggle change by itself, given that it does not really change WoF outside of a few more buttons to press per minute. As for the kit, I do not really see people complain about the rest(most likely because they do not use it anyway) and it is nothing fundamental wrong with Fireball or accelerant(other then the ingame text could hnit that it also does affect weapons) while Fire blast just would need some few tweaks to give more utility at high levels in my opinion. So why should DE rework it?

[Ember polishing-up thread]

While I suggested adding base status chance to weapons on accelrant, with the current weapon balance it does not make much of a difference today. You do not need status on normal content, even through sortis you can just burn through with crit buffed fire damage. Even if you look at weapons like the akbronko prime that would really be great with 10% more base status on Ember, what we got is 3x damage in the last rework and there is no real reason to ever use it over a mara detron, given that is would work a status shotgun with this change as well and is superior in reload speed, mag size, has elemental instead of IPS what makes corrosive even below 100% status on it viable and also got radiation what is incredible good at high levels.

Fireball: Well the change time could be quicker but it would need another mechanic in the end to really make it a useful feature. 

For example that fully charged it would convert any fire dot within it's range into instant damage(what is combinable with WoF or fire procs from weapons) or make it that it sets the inner ring on fire blast on fire.

Accelerant: Well they could fix that the damage bonus is not granted against boss like units since the CC mitigation change as only damage buff in the game as far as I am aware.

Fire Blast: I would like if the hole ring would be on fire by default(or in combination with a charged fireball). It would give Ember more utility for shielding defence targets against melee units or slowing down units form a certain direction(like you can do with snow globe for example).

WoF: It should have a indicator how far are you between 0% and 100% of the range to damage conversion on the frame, even a small effect present just at 100% would help to have better control with it without looking down at the counter all the time. Currently the 100% mode just feels like a drawback, given that within 10m or a properly modded shotgun on my Ember you certainly do not need the extra damage while the lower CC is certainly a drawback. 

Immunity to the energy leech aura would come to mind, given that I have to say eximus sortis against infested atm are a pain with Ember currently, given that you most of the time not even have the energy for accelerant spam with 1-2 leech eximus around. Ever if that problem is mostly a issue of DEs eximus spawn table for infested(that has like 50% energy leech) and lacking a mechanic to prevent energy leech from stacking or finding the units that take away your energy, given that it works through walls and having everything covered with disruptor auras makes units hard to identify.

Overall in my opinion the WoF change was not that great all things considered, given that it does not change Ember a lot at low levels, be it by just adding overextended or just pressing 4 a few times per minute.

 

[The inner contradictions of Saryn 3.5's spores]

In my opinion the issue is simply the decay mechanic not working that well together with the way units spawn on different maps.

Just look at body count/drifting contact that fixed a fairly basic issue of melee(what DE should have simply fixed by increasing to combo counter to 6-9s by default), losing the combo counter all the time because 3s are most of the time not enught to get to the next unit on most maps. Assuming DE would add a grace period of 6s after the last spore died till the decay would happen it would be a lot more manageable for normal game play and it would hardly affect onslaught, given that you lose nearly everything of your counter while moving to the next zone anyway.

Il y a 8 heures, TARINunit9 a dit :

The problem seems to be, going off the production goals from the reason they made Saryn 3.0 in the first place, the devs can't find a way to make spores useful that don't allow Saryn to cast them once or twice and then idle in the corner. 

Well they could have just add damage falloff to spore(10-20m for the toxic transfer, spore spread still up to full range), make it reliable with more weapons by consider toxic damage as stack instead of just transferring one proc and cap the maximum of toxic dot that you can transfer to 5% of the enemy health(what is still a metric ton of damage assuming that you would have toxic dot build-up on nearly all units that you can transfer by depleting and recasting spores).

Molt should have just stopped applying spores and new damage when shot after the target was full of spores.

[Ember Re-Rework]

Il y a 21 heures, Arcira a dit :

stuff

Well ammo economy goes a long way at higher levels for solo, especially on weapons that are not that ammo efficient. For example my corrosive/fire prisma grakata would need 200-260 rounds to kill that L150 leech eximus heavy gunners without accelerant and 80-140 with it(the inconsistency is mostly based around the spread the proc what makes the effect less predictable to benchmark).

While I do agree that frame based damage buffs in the days of rivens, arcanes, cat buffs and all the weapon buffs are far less important then they where years ago, it is still, depending a bit on the weapon a fairly powerful thing to have. Back in 2014 the Boar prime for example did 1700 something heat damage(incendiary coat + blaze + scattering inferno) and L100 against armor was considered for most without 4CP difficult.

It also depends a bit on the style of the weapon, where it is least pronounced on high crit damage weapons(mostly by the extra slots required for crit mods) while it is most pronounced on status weapons with status modding, given that the 60% mods come at close to no damage loss. As for your weapon I do not see any mod setup where it would do more damage on Ember outside of maxed primed anti faction mods instead of heavy calibre. The only other thing that would come to my mind extra status from scorch for additional corrosive procs would outperform the damage loss on the other elements, assuming you raise armor protection even more by level. I have a similar situation with my mara detron, where there is not really much that could change the weapon.

This is outside of a status riven to turn it into a status shotgun, but with the current damage and status, just putting corrosive on it by switching ice storm with jolt will drop that L150 eximus leech corrupted gunner in 8-13 rounds on my Ember, depending on procs, what still rivals some of the strongest anti armor status weapons in the game at levels far beyond sorti or what you would realistically play on a day to day basis.

With 170% power strength and flash accelerant that weapon does 75k+ damage per single shot(150k effective after the viral proc) on Ember, even if I using it on another frame feels nearly the same in a sorti, given given that even 21k(what is 42k after the viral proc) with aura protection disable and great CC by the fire procs punches through anything but very high armor levels(where you just switch out viral for corrosive) incredible effortlessly.

I think I was the only person that pointed out in the secondary shotgun thread how silly the first detron change was(before DE buffed it again) given that the weapon performed fine before(without any rivens) and you had reasons to chose the brakk(even if it was not really the superior weapon the community did preach it is, especially not a higher levels where better proc distribution on elemental weapons come into play and where disabling that massive AOE damage reduction based on aura protection becomes important).

Firequake basically did cost you head shot damage modifiers, given that targets got constantly knocked down. It further made weapons with punch trough and spread like my boar prime considerable less effective, given targets will be constantly between knocked down, getting up and standing for brief period's of time what never does produce ideal results no matter where you aim. Between the damage loss, slot loss and questionable effect, given that WoF only hits a limited number of targets per second, while your weapon and acclerant can high far more at the same time it always did look to me as a very poor mod choice, even if it was praised by so many you tubers for reasons that I do not as it is and probably will never understand.

I never use charged fireball, given that it is a dps loss, however the napalm like effect for a few seconds is clear buff if you need some quick CC during reload or if you use something like a bow/sniper(depends on the map). Fire blast also got buffed by providing a damage buff for weapons now, then again you are correct that weapon damage is hardly a problem this days, much less so on Ember if you use accelerant and mod weapons around that.

Spamming accelerant for CC is nothing new(since the change that accelerant does restun before the timer resets) at higher levels on Ember, even with the old WoF. Spamming WoF is new, but then again it was like that before it became a channelling ability, even if it hardly found any use at high levels given that the long cast animation made it a death trap. Is that interactive game play? Well it forces you as a player to take action to keep going or just stay alive. Is that good? Not really but at least it breaks the vicious circle of Ember being perceived as frame where you just hit 4 and it plays the mission for you and people perceiving the frame just as one ability, even if there are a lot of fairly interesting mechanics beyond that. Heck there is even a real high level damage frame in there that does not even has the issue of struggling to do damage at high levels, even if they complain about that since years.

A lot of people complained here on the forums about Ember being everywhere at low levels, playing her mission for them by pressing 4. Was it a creative and good change to WoF? Most likely not, it just put WoF back to where it was 2 years ago(outside being a death trap to even press the button), what I do not see as such a bad thing, given I played the frame back then as well and liked it. Did it move the problem from Ember to other frames? Yes it did, however that is on DEs side to fix, given that people will always take the most easy route and if everything else is a bit less easy, people actually would most likely play the current Ember again, because it does if you watch timers a bit and press 4 a bit more just as good as before(while being less energy efficient, then again that never was a problem in the last 2 years until you get swarmed by energy leech units at higher levels, even if they most likely would still not utilize fire damage on weapons for scaling).

Le 22/05/2018 à 04:37, RealPandemonium a dit :

I have observed Accelerant's stun to be pretty consistent in the more recent patches, even taking priority over ground slam animation and the like (it still comes out if you try to cancel it too late, though.)  Do you have any reproducible examples of it behaving inconsistently?

Well I did not play that much in the last few months and mostly on Saryn till the rework. However I did not notice differences when I did play Ember(I seen 2 units breaking out of a fire proc for a know down and one out of the acclerant stun in my sorti today). I probably would require a lot of time to test if the mechanics did change, even then it is hard to put a absolute verdict on mechanics that to some degree do vary(because of coding, bugs, lag, client\host issues or something else). I currently still try to figure out the current Saryn changes, where I am at this point convinced that toxic transfers are gone for good and I still fail to figure out why some other players do more damage then me with the frame, given that what spore transfers is not 100% for host as I assumed before. Watching other players also gives me no real clues and from my practical experience you can hardly sustain 2k+ damage on the display(even if that display might be most likely bugged, given that it at times did not show up, even if I had spores on some units). 

[Ember Won't Be Viable Until Some Changes Are Made]

To iterate a bit, you point out that the state of Ember is insulting to the players of her. This is not true, given that WoF used to have a even shorter duration in high level builds and was barely used at all there back in the days(the long cast animation made it a death trap). All things considered you can just replace all "Ember" with "WoF" in your post and you have a much more accurate complain, given that this is all you complain about.

This took nothing for me away from playing the frame, given that I as well could crush spam 20 waves with my mag at lower levels without making complains that this does not work at L100 and WoF was before the toggle change a fairly good ability for solo play and continues to be after the recent changes, assuming you do not to 100% relay on this one ability to do damage(if so, laughs on you, because you do pathetic low dps with your damage frame).

Also DE is not moving way to fast, given DEs motivation to change stuff is a different one then the player base has they just moving at a speed that makes sense to them. The saryn changes might look awesome for people that never learned to play the frame like it was the past 2 years. In my honest opinion it is a fairly boring rework and killed most of fun and AOE nuking on it.

As for your rework suggestion. Stop quoting the nonsense DE posted and claim that there is a deeper meaning, it is absolute 100% nonsense written by somebody that has no idea how Ember works, what kind of matches the community opinion.

The passive can be good for some added dps in combination with weapons that put fire procs on you, but overall it is niche and not that good. With your suggestion it would add some CC, CC you already have assuming you know where your left mouse button is(or whatever it is on a console controller) and bring a weapon that does it. Big whoop. It is overall meh and will continue to be so, given that Ember does not really need any kind of super passive to be good and both DE as well as the community is not really that creative.

Also please do not suggest this promotes people putting heat on her weapons, people do not do this since years, throwing 90% of her damage output just out of the window because they do not know how accelerant works(else they would probably stopped complaining about the damage by now).

Accelerant stun is affect by knock-down recovery like every other soft CC in the game and there is nothing wrong with it. What is a problem however is that enemy animations override the effect, a thing DE did not address since years, given that hardly somebody complains about it since it only shows if you do not cheese but actually play at higher levels with frames that do not posses pseudo god mod and actually require her CC to stay alive. Opening up enemy units for finishers is utterly stupid(same as it is on Inaros) because it trivializes the game to uncanny levels. To go a step further it does not even work on Ember, given the fire proc overrides this and you can hardly do a swing on stuff with Ember without lighting it up on fire with a melee weapon that is suitable to work on the frame past L100.

Fire Blast:

The main issue is that the hole ring is not on fire, this would make it ok for giving the defence target and you some breathing room at higher levels.

As for your suggestions, why does Fire Blast need armor strip? Ember does not need that, the only reason you and a lot of the community would want it is because you do not understand how the frame you want to change works. Nearly every unit with armor in the game is fairly weak against fire damage(what Ember has more then any other frame in the game) assuming you rip off that armor with a status weapon. Guess how man people use a status weapon on Ember at high levels? Yes exactly, next to non, instead you where terrorised by Fire quake + Ignis garbage builds in your sorties, acting like a massive team damage de buff and a utterly joke when it comes to damage frames. This is the public level of player skill on Ember and this should change first, because I am 100% sure that the feedback about the frame would then also change for the better. However it did not, people just stopped playing Ember, what is still a big improvement given how terrible they where with the frame.

WoF

WoF is CC for the most part, while it can be used to clear lower levels like the 4. ability on most other frames it does not really fall out of line with that, given that there is no real reason to do so. Adding 100% more fire damage to everything is a stupid high damage buff, you would probably know that if you would know that Ember does as damage frame.

As well as it is to add a AOE blind to Ember(that believe it or not gets overwritten by fire procs). Giving Ember back damage reduction is also stupid, if you want to do something productive for the game ask for capping damage scaling and nerfing stupid levels of EHP on some frames. The mechanic is years old, a time where frames other then Ember actually did really struggle with the damage of her bolter prime and soma long before everything one hits you, fast forward to today, sortis are a joke without any damage buffs given the currently fairly broken weapon damage and can be played like low level missions assuming you use a tanking frame.

All things considered, assuming you love Ember beyond WoF(what I doubt, only a very very small number of people her on the forums do) I would suggest you actually learn how the frame works before suggesting changes. You and a lot of other people might think I am a elitist or internet bully when it comes to Ember, however the point is I am not, just do not get it.

You suggest pressing 2 and the E should kill any unit(what it actually does far beyond sori levels). Then you suggest pressing 3 should reduce armor, even if the main damage on your 2 is now armor ignore(wtf)? Then you suggest that pressing 4 should do massive damage with another option to just press E with a lot more effort then just pressing 2 and doing the same(wtf again)? It does not make any sense to me, probably a lot less to somebody that actually would have the task to sit down and code that nonsense over a week, just to change that a bit after, given that some people would realize that it is just stupid.

[Ember Won't Be Viable Until Some Changes Are Made]

I am talk about a whine thread that lacks any kind of substance, written by people that do for the most part not even utilize Embers main damage feature at all(hint you do not do your damage with WoF on Ember), complaining about what is effectively 5-10 more button presses per minute.

The pictures are actually from a 50 wave grenier relict defence Ember vs Saryn for dps just to show you where the frame now is after the changes, that I for myself do not even like that much, given that I actually like the AOE wipe via toxic transfers over the new version of tickling the hole map to death with corrosive procs.

il y a 2 minutes, ljmadruga a dit :

Wow, a low level fissure lasting only 2 rotations on the starchart.

Nice

Truly “Massive” Damage.

Her damage is negligible at best in higher levels (see: armor) and she goes down if an enemy even glances in her general direction thanks to the range reduction on her 4.

Accelerant is decent for the damage buff and some cc, but one good power does not make a good frame. Even when comparing to other damage frames, Ember falls way short. 

Mesa, for example, can deal truly ludicrous amounts of damage that can completely mitigate armor that is only limited by line of sight. She has a damage reduction through her 3. 

Octavia has infinitely scaling damage through her 1. She can turn invisible. 

Even Equinox, who has more range on her 4 at base, has a damage reduction through pacify. 

It is 10 rotations(50 waves) and frames like Mesa, Octavia or Equinox are certainly not good benchmarks to balance anything, given that they are fairly bad design and horrible balanced. If you believe that Ember has issues against armor then you should probably look into status mechanics, given that I do not share this opinion and I main Ember since 2014. If anything Ember is probably the most effective frame in the game against armor that does not need armor ignore on a ability or a augment for it, what is mostly the result of how corrosive/fire modded status weapons interact with Accelerant on Ember.

[Ember Won't Be Viable Until Some Changes Are Made]

Yeah they buffed Saryn to be a bit more competitive to Ember against armor at higher levels at expense of removing the most powerful damage feature on the frame(the AOE toxic dot transfer). It is not even clear what your issue is with the Ember, outside of the obvious thing that you do not like pressing the 4 button all that much, given that it is the only thing that really changed(beside of the massive damage buff with the weapon changes, not that it even matters given that Ember has plenty of dps for all content you could play).

[Ember is Far From Okay]

Well I suggest adding the toxic lash damage bonus to all weapons quite a bit as a Ember main, given that Saryn has a lot harder time when it comes to weapons and is incredible weak when it comes to CC or single target DPS(laughable bad compared to Ember if you look at something like L150+ solo, given how eximus effects work and Saryn was even more limited in weapon modding then Ember). What DE however did was also adding the auto spore spreading what is stupid on ranged weapons, given that this boils down to full auto rifles or Ignis what is just as absurd as how the toxic transfer mechanic did vastly reduce the weapon selection by only moving 1 toxic proc(what made weapons like Ignis or full auto rifles useless).

As for Ember, the frame was super common at low levels before the changes, you could hardly run a public mission without one. I do agree that the WoF change missed the mark to prevent low level AOE farming. Ember does a lot more damage then you might assume when you state that the WoF change limited her has damage frame, given that the WoF damage is just a minor thing on the frame and the real damage comes interactions between accelerant and your weapons(what should be modded around how accelerant works). This damage gone actually up by a lot by the weapon changes(even if it is questionable why we did need the extra damage to begin with, given even L100 sortis where fairly trivial with weapons from 2014 for a good player).

[Ember Re-Rework]

Le 13/05/2018 à 19:13, Arcira a dit :

I did a lot of tests with Heat damage + Accelerant in various combinations and never saw any signivicant dps increases. However it doesn´t really matter anyway. As I said weapons are very powerful. You can kill a lvl 150 corrupted bombard in seconds with armor shred (without the need of any kind of buff). The important thing isn´t your dps output but your surviveability. Warframe like Mesa, Rhino, Chroma, Nidus or Inarus can kill enemies in high levels as fast as ember can but are much more tanky.

Accelerant has a maximum stun duration of  5 second (not modable and about 1 second casttime) against some enemies. It´s literally the worst hard cc ability in the whole game and not an actual reason to use her over any other warframe. 

Firequake wasn´t good because it did rather than sustaining cc without a lot of input. You can actually focus on playing the game rather than spamming your abilitiy every 3 to 4 seconds. Also status on weapons (which btw isn´t an argument for ember either because it can be used by anyone) isn´t a good source of surviveability when enemies spawn everywhere around you. Say hello random acient grab out of nowhere. Aoe is far more reliable. 

While accelerant has it's fair share of bugs, not granting the damage buff(outside of boss like units, what is bugged since the CC resistance changes) is certainly not among them what a simply test against a L150 corrupted eximus heavy gunner(leech) shows:

no accelerant(37 rounds fired):

https://i.imgur.com/EqOI4rD.jpg

with Accelerant(16 rounds fired):

https://i.imgur.com/lpvOTcE.jpg

Weapon used:

https://i.imgur.com/c8bZi6q.jpg

As you can see a crit pellet with 512% base damage on the weapon(ppb + riven + arcane) does 6832 damage head shot damage without accelerant. In the second screen shot with accelerant and 170% power strength + 85% more fire base damage by flash accelerant that number changes to 25267 what equals a effective damage increase of 270% against a non armored unit(what it pretty much is after the first few rounds). Assuming we remove the first 6 rounds what it takes to strip the armor with a boar prime we look at 31 vs 10 rounds spend, what again mirrors this damage increase(give or take 1-2 rounds by inconsistent modifiers like status distribution, bleed procs or crit).

While I agree that Embers power is a lot less pronounced then in say 2014(where status shotguns worked differently and people did 1/4 of her current damage at best) and DE refuses to fix enemy damage scaling for the sake of throwing incredible overblown survivability on certain frames without any damage penalties, it is certainly not a Ember exclusive problem but more so a problem with the game as a hole.

Accelerant is a soft CC, given that it can be overwritten by nearly all enemy animations and does not disable units without a stun animation(drones for example) compared to real hard CC like Bastille or stomp that completely suspends units for the duration. However it is fairly cheap to cast, you cast it anyway for the damage buff and got a quick casting animation, so all things considered it is very effective at high levels in keeping you alive, if you compare it with a frame like saryn that only has the CC on her 4 with a much longer cast animation what on top of Ember plays herself like a charm at high levels.

Fire quake only appeared good to certain people because they did no damage to begin with. It is effectively removing nearly all extra head shot damage from your team and focusing on units that die fairly quick is not really that hard, where people do struggle is when they have issues to kill stuff, what should not realistically happen with Ember at something like a L100 sorti, not even solo. Negotiating the extra CC of status weapons is fairly silly and you can test that incredible easy by just jumping in a void survival solo and stay for over a hour with a status weapon that does disable what it hits and then with weapons that do not. You might see a significant difference long before the 1h mark in staying alive.

[New Sayrn Spore]

Spore has at least some LOS mechanics, most likely frame and target combined LOS or the 3s rule from Excalibur, or something new. It is certainly not full AOE form my 4h test today on various maps.

As for spore being OP, it got a massive buff against armor and a massive nerf against everything else(for the 1% of good saryn players, it is a buff for the rest).

Overall new Saryn still feels buggy, but in a very blunt and boring way. Gone are the rng toxic transfers that make you able to take turns for map wiping with Equinox in Onslaught, 100% uptime of map wide viral procs, gone are interesting weapon choices bouncing spores forward and back with non hit scan AOE weapons, gone is AOE depleting of spores and rapid recasting on spores to reset your your nuke, utilizing groups to set up huge map wide damage or specific weapon and modding choices. It literally just boils down on full auto weapons or AOE stuff like the Ignis in combination with toxic lash(adding spore auto spreading to ranged weapons is stupid) to utilize the damage from spore, compared to choosing specific weapons for spores to light up the hole map in toxic dots.

Overall meh, I liked the old saryn far more given it did remind me of the old Ember, being everything form a underperformed up to broken levels of AOE damage depending on the player behind the keyboard.

 

[Why Saryn?]

il y a 25 minutes, MageMachine a dit :

Spores were not buffed.

At present if you don't custom build a weapon for spores and instead just use toxic lash galatine prime, it is trivial to reach immediate 10k dps toxin proc spread to all enemies in range.

If you have 3 spores on a target, you will need 1/3 the toxin dps (3.3k) to match the current immediate damage. With 10 enemies at 3 spores each, it would take over a hundred seconds of uninterrupted ramp to match current dps. Keep in mind, if at any time all current enemies die, or you want to start a new batch, you have to reset the entire ramp.

For 99% of content, the current workshop build is a massive nerf to saryn's damage output before we even account for how spores have to be reset each time you want to start a new batch while advancing through a level.

All I know is if the forced removal of all spores each time we want to cast it hits live I will be ticked.

It is not just this. Assuming you still have a high kill speed you will roll over the spawn table on the map at a very high speed, what means that infinite duration spores are not infinite but only last till you get a proper toxic transfer going or insert frame X(Equinox in particular) does press a button.

Also viral is Saryns double damage team buff, while you only need corrosive against armor. Outside of this it does little and you are basically down to spam miasma every few seconds for the de buff, instead of having it build into your spores what vastly increases her energy issues.

Misama not re stunning for the hole duration should trigger a appropriate comment from everybody that ever played the frame at least slightly seriously(solo L100+) and has zero other CC in the kit. However nobody in the dev post pointed it out that it is stupid, what is a clear indicator for me that non of them ever played Saryn at a higher level without cheese or never played the frame there at all. I for myself know how that works because this was like accelerant worked a few years ago and let me tell you it made Ember a walking coffin at high levels.

[Warframe Rework Priority Opinion Poll]

The answer would be because Saryns core mechanics to do damage are a intentional buggy mess(assuming we talk about nukeing L100+ maps with weapon based toxic transfers instead of running press 1 contents on your molt). It is not that they do not work, it is not that they do not do what they are supposed to do(I am fairly sure the damage throttling is intentional because Saryn after the rework was just stupid amounts of AOE damage), it is just that it is a bug/rng dilemma to a point where most people doubt that the mechanics work at all(what they do) and far from a ideal tool, understandable by a common warframe player.

[Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0]

Le 10/05/2018 à 20:00, [DE]Danielle a dit :

The following bullet points are cornerstones to her 2.0 form, and list what we intend to tackle from over 2 years worth of observations since her first revision:

Tackling Perplexing Synergies - Perplexing indeed. We feel Saryn's synergy as it stands follows a more forced than natural flow. We often found players confused as to why some things worked as they did, which lead to a guessing game of “bug or feature”. 

A new player having just acquired Saryn might not be fully aware of Spores’ interaction between Molt, Toxic Lash, and Miasma… and as an added layer, the interactions of those abilities with one another. Essentially, with Saryn you are given all the ingredients to mix up a cocktail, without really knowing if the ingredients are meant to mix in the first place.  

In 2.0, we aim to take the guessing out of the “what does what with what to make X happen?” and ultimately make her more sensible and intuitive to play. 

 

The issue is more that the frame is full of poorly documented mechanics. I am not against the throttle you put on the frame(as a "bug") because Saryns damage output at least at high levels feels fine. The issue is mostly that you leave next to everybody believe that certain mechanics do not work because of the bugs instead of using a constant and bug free spore toxic transfer mechanic build around your intended damage.

I do not believe people have a hard time to pick other synergies up, as soon as they are able to understand how the basics work(what in Saryns case is not really likely, like I shown in a few forum threads to people that doubt that the mechanics work at all).

Le 10/05/2018 à 20:00, [DE]Danielle a dit :

Tackling the “Spores Turret” - Shedding Molt and decorating it with Spores is fairly commonplace Saryn gameplay. We’ve noticed that this quick 1 - 2 step tends to result in a “set it and forget it” way of playing. We want players to feel more involved in Saryn’s poisonous grip over the enemy, while giving Spores and Molt more utility on their own.

The first step was removing the synergy to cast Spores on Molt. Distancing the two abilities gave us the start we needed to give them their very own unique and self-sufficient design. Now they perform independently of one another, giving Saryn more options in combat.  Details are listed below! 

Why not just double the spore spread range if you do that and do not apply more dots if the target already has spores. This would keep the mechanic to move around spores in a melee build(that has less range) or before having LOS intact while removing the undesired side effects as well.

Le 10/05/2018 à 20:00, [DE]Danielle a dit :

ABILITY CHANGES

Now for the nitty gritty! The following details Saryn’s abilities in their 2.0 revisited form. 

General Changes

• Increased Saryn’s Armor from 175 to 225 (at rank 30)
• Increased Saryn Prime’s Armor from 225 to 300 (at rank 30) 

 

Pointless. Fix enemy damage scaling by capping it at L80 and reduce tanks to something more reasonable like 200% EHP of a normal frame not 2000-10000%.

Le 10/05/2018 à 20:00, [DE]Danielle a dit :

Spores

 

Spores now have Infinite Duration and Escalating Damage! What exactly does that mean? Essentially, Spore duration is determined by the enemies affected. As long as enemies are dying to Spores, they will spread.  As an added bonus, the longer your Spores deal damage, the more your damage output will grow. 

*Developer note: We really want to emphasize that this is experimental. With Spores we’re trying a couple new things that we’ve never done before, so we’ve entered new territory that is both exciting and a little scary: Infinite Duration and Infinite Escalating Damage. Both of these have had interesting and fun results under normal test play and conditions, but we are still testing and looking for edge situations that might require us to go back to the drawing board.

• Spores changed from Viral to Corrosive damage, which repurposes it as a great tool to strip armor from enemies. 
• Increased Status Chance from 10% to 50%, also scaling with Power Strength.
• When an enemy affected by Spores dies, they spread to surrounding enemies. This makes it much easier to keep Spores active.    
  • *Developer Note: We are particularly apprehensive about Spores behaving this way since we’ve paired it with an already experimental mechanic  - it is the most likely portion of the rework to be highly reconsidered before launch.   
• Recasting Spores will detonate all active Spores and will deal 2x the damage on an infected enemy based on the number of active Spores and their current damage per tick.
• A meter showing damage per tick and the number of affected enemies will be available in the UI to keep tabs on active Spores. 
• Venom Dose Augment Change: Spores cast on allies temporarily grant them additional Corrosive (was Toxin) damage to all attacks.
• Spores optimization! Under certain circumstances, Spores has been known to cause framerate issues in its current state. With the spreading nature of Spores in the rework, we’ve decreased the CPU burden which has made a noticeable change to the ability’s overall performance while active. There is still room for improvement but we’re fairly happy with the results so far!  

 

Pointless. You do not need infinite duration spores, in a real application spores will die when you wipe maps, finish waves or waiting for re spawns after the toxic transfer worked and the map dies. Even a low duration spore is more then enught, given that you need to deplete and recast spores a lot with the current, kind of buggy, mechanic to get toxic transfers going.

Switching corrosive from miasma to spore is also kind of a team utility nerf and will not benefit your goal of making saryn halve way energy efficient. You basically force Saryn to cast a lot of miasma to keep the double damage bonus for everbody up instead of having it on Spore(that you use anyway for the toxic transfer mechanic). There is also nothing wrong with shooting the spores to spread them or the enemy did not spread them at death. Saryn did need throttling(given how broken your design was at the start) and given that the one hit mechanic only affects low levels(up to L80 ish) it is a good thing to keep rather then to "fix".

Saryn does not need "strip armor" build into spores, it would help a bit on her 4 but what really would help would be actually adding not boring FOTM weapons non stop but actually look at holes in the weapon line-up, like corrosive base damage weapons that allow for corrosive/gas or corrosive/toxin modding where Saryn really falls short atm.

Le 10/05/2018 à 20:00, [DE]Danielle a dit :

Molt

 

Molt has classically been a great tool of deception and distraction, especially when in a bind and in need a quick escape to reposition. We wanted to retain this utility but improve on it so that it offered more reliable and robust cover options.   

• After casting, Saryn receives a movementary speed boost for a short duration.     
• Molt will now scale similar to Rhino’s Iron Skin - All the initial damage it takes in the first few seconds will make it stronger. Any damage it receives after that point will target the absorbed health (Damage absorbed will show in a buff indicator in the UI). Once it reaches 0, Molt explodes dealing Toxin damage to nearby enemies. 
• Improved FX changes to make her Molt cast more pronounced. 
• Her Regenerative Molt Augment remains the same! “Saryn regenerates health over a span of time after casting Molt.”

 

Make it 10 hits scalable by power strength. Given how poorly the agro mechanic works on Molt as we speak you do not want to caste it in front of a enemy when you get shot, because this will consist till you die and then they will shoot the molt. It should be used more tactical like at the other side of a hallway to not get shot from behind or with spores in the centre of the map to keep spreading. The iron skin/snow globe mechanic only works if you want to get shot imidatly, what you certainly do not want with a dead Saryn next to a Molt that fails to draw agro from you to it.

What molt really needs is to draw reliable agro to it. If you can not implement that just transfer 50% of the damage Saryn takes while molt is up and within 15m(scalable by power range) to the molt, so it acts at least as a damage reduction to keep you alive.

Le 10/05/2018 à 20:00, [DE]Danielle a dit :

Toxic Lash

You’ve told us that having Toxic Lash limited to Melee was too restrictive and was simply not compatible with a broader variety of playstyles. So we’re sharing its Toxin with the lot of your Arsenal! Toxic Lash’s Toxin damage buff in Saryn’s revisit is now granted to ANY weapon in your Loadout (Primary, Secondary, and Melee). In maintaining its roots, the damage buff on Melee weapons is doubled. 

• With Toxic Lash active, your weapons will trigger Toxin Status Effect on any damage instance. 
• Increased the duration from 30 seconds to 45 seconds. 
• We’ve maintained Toxic Lash’s ability to spread Spores to nearby enemies by dealing damage while  active. 
• With the new spreading nature of Spores, survivability of Molt, and the increase duration of Toxic Lash and Miasma, Saryn is no longer as Energy hungry as she used to be, so we’ve removed the 2 Energy restore on Spores burst by Toxic Lash.   
• Contagion Cloud Augment change: Kills with Toxic Lash will leave behind a Toxin cloud. As an added bonus, Melee kills double the damage dealt by the cloud. 

 

Tell me why you did not address this in my or other people comments about 2 years ago? Also automatic toxin procs and spore pop with ranged weapons is stupid and should be only a feature of melee. You did not fix the energy issues, you just moved them around if you want the map wide viral proc.

The toxic clouds should scale with melee damage or enemy HP on death, given that in it's current form the mod is hardly useful for damage. Also the mod should remain melee only, everything else will lead just to broken results with high rof weapons.

Le 10/05/2018 à 20:00, [DE]Danielle a dit :

• Miasma

We’ve taken what’s great about Miasma, and made it even better in the scope of Saryn’s 2.0 changes! 

• Changed Miasma’s damage type from Corrosive to Viral. 
  • *We've swapped Miasma and Spores damage types with one another since Spores in its 2.0 form allows for more than 1 proc per second.
• Miasma has a 100% guaranteed Viral Status Effect on damage tick. 
• Increased damage from 350 to 500. 
• Increased duration from 3 to 5 seconds. 
• Miasma inflicts double damage on targets affected by Spores. 
• When recasting on the same enemy it will refresh the tick duration and maintain the Viral Status Effect, but will not stun enemies a second time.

Keep it corrosive and just give the ticks a chance to proc corrosive status.

Remove the damage and duration gain and keep it like it is, Miasma is fine for damage and putting up toxin an viral procs for full effect is a interesting mechanic in a otherwise by now fairly dull game.

No restun on a frame that has no other form of CC? You are approaching 2014 Ember territory here(because it was, let me laugh, "bugged"). Saryn needs a additional quick CC on spore(be it by a forced impact proc, I do not care, anything is better then hammering 4 every time you need CC at higher levels), not the removal of the only viable tool to stay alive at higher levels.

In general, fix Saryns Spore mechanic to be reliable and something a average player can understand instead of pure rng, enemy groups and weapon based map nuke ability, that most people doubt to even exist in the first place on the frame.

- Transfer 10% base HP worth of toxic proc on the unit if the unit has this amount of toxin dot on it(if the fully added stack value is high enught, if it exceeds that cap it at 10%, if it is less then transfer everything), reduce spores popped to 1 per hit(given that AOE removes them all) and add damage falloff, starting at 10m to no damage at 15m so you gain great damage against groups while not rolling over the hole spawn table on the map if rng rolls into your favour like this

- fix high level toxic eximus ancients being immune to toxic damage, this just as absurd as fire eximus on Ember given that it only punishes elemental frames that in the case of Saryn and Ember are some of the more balanced things you did in the game

- cap enemy scaling damage and reduce enemy accuracy to not act like aimbotting you over the hole map if solo\host, because this squeezes all the fun out of frames like Saryn and Ember at high levels if you take damage as soon as you are in LOS and have no CC up(again the miasma change is terrible)

[Why Saryn?]

Le 11/05/2018 à 02:12, (PS4)godlysparta a dit :

Look at the developer workshop tab. Saryn is getting reworked.

Ember isn’t very useful anymore. Her Damage should scale like Saryn. However, people will then complain that she’s too OP and then she’ll get nerfed again. But they Saryn, a frame that does way better than Ember, gets a buff... Balderdash!

Ember always was useful in the last few years. Embers and Saryns damage is fairly comparable if you look at something like 60 waves solo non armor, armor obviously Ember takes the cake and Saryn is kind of limited. Saryn has a lot of(most likely intended) bugs to spore to throttle the damage to desired levels what makes her kind of rng when it comes to damage while having a lot less of a dedicated weapon selection then Ember(there are various great radiation base damage weapons for Ember however only one corrosive base damage weapon for Saryn etc.) and being just as energy inefficient as Ember.

[Ember Re-Rework]

Le 10/05/2018 à 23:44, Arcira a dit :

I think people are quite aware accelerant increases fire damage of weapons but noone would ever mod his weapon for fire damage. Corrosive, radiation or viral are far to powerful in comparison. Also other warframes can use and buff weapons too. However offering survivability is worth so much more because weapons are heavily overpowered anyway. A lv 100 heavy gunner is oneshot by my lanka. 

You don´t play a caster type warframe in order to shoot stuff you want to actually cast spells! And reducing the range of a former aoe spell to something my melee weapons laugth about shouldn´t be considered an option. There are alot of viable possibilities (for example line of sight) but no it has to be something that feels clunky and anoying. After the release of plains of eidolon the range of WoF should have been increased rather than decreased. 

This is exactly the point where people throw the actual damage right out of the window, because they massively(by a mile at least) underestimate what you can do with scaled up fire damage. Fire scaling does no not mean fire modded only(outside of some builds with the vaykor hek or rakta cernos where that easily cuts through sortis on it's own via 300.000k dps). You can combine fire with corrosive what is incredible effective against armor on status weapons(especially status shotguns like my Boar Prime where Ember becomes just as armor ignore as Ash or Trinity), given that you only need the corrosive against the armor, once this is reduced enught or removed fire scaling actually comes out on top simply because fire gets bonus damage against cloned flesh and 90%+ of your damage comes from fire. You will not even notice the difference between a L100 and L150 corrupted bombard, because there is little, if any on Ember.

There are also weapons in the game that can be modded viral, radiation and fire, like the Mara Detron what actually outdoes all kinds of meta weapons on Ember, given how strong this feature of radiation base damage weapons is.

I actually do play Ember to shoot stuff, because this is something the frame does incredible well while also providing very solid CC(for solo defence etc.). Also the liability of WoF is actually a lot less noticeable if you use accelerant a lot(both for stuns and damage bonuses) as well as status showers for weapons what solves most of the issues people have with staying alive at higher levels without even reducing your dps, because this is another unknown but awesome feature of fire scaling, status modding comes at close to no damage loss.

[Ember Re-Rework]

Le 08/05/2018 à 10:53, MercurialAspect a dit :

The old Ember had issues. The new Ember has different issues. Reverting to what she used to be isn't a good idea, but keeping her as she is now is also not really fun for those of us that like to play her. A big part of why the nerf hurts is because they left other, far more effective "kill everything before anyone sees it" frames alone. Saryn, Equinox, Volt, Banshee, etc. are all still more than capable of completely clearing a defense map while everyone else sits around with their metaphorical thumb up their... well, you get the idea.

While I personally love AFK farming stuff, I can understand why they don't want it in the game, and if they want to redesign Ember to not have "passively nuke the universe" as her ultimate, I'm okay with that. I just want her left capable of participating in end-game content without feeling like I'm intentionally gimping my team by taking a frame that's woefully underpowered.

Personally, I'd love to see her made into a high-risk high-reward caster frame: Keep her ranges short (room-clearing instead of map clearing), her damage and ability use high, and tie her survival to short-duration CC. 

I disagree, seeing less people that play the frame bad(by doing like 5% of the damage they could with the frame) around is definitive a big plus. Ember never had issues to steam roll endgame content solo(sortis did not introduce L100, you could face roll this years ago with weapons that did 1/4 of the current damage at the very best in a bit longer solo survivals or defences). This is just the opinion of people that again do not understand that Embers damage comes from accelerant and weapons modded around that instead of WoF and therefore complain here on the forums about WoF damage.

Ember is already what you would love to see her be, that is the beauty of Ember basically. You just need to put a "1" in front of the "50" what you assume is a enemy level your frame is good at, set the game to solo and practice. The only thing that is not true is that Ember is high reward, however that is mostly blamed on DE designing every frame and weapon around being incredible boring, blunt and uninteresting because older and more complex mechanics are often not understood by the community.

Le 07/05/2018 à 05:55, blkdrag a dit :

Ember's World on Fire rework is way too painful. The energy cost increased, the range was halved; the damage increase is ok, but is irrelevant. This rework, I can say, destroyed her.

I had my Ember built for both power and crowd control, depending on what missions I ran, without having to change between builds. This rework completely annihilated any shred of survival-bility she had. I didn't need Ember's WoF to have more base damage or more range. I had a build for her that WoF could kill group Lv100 enemies in less than 10 seconds without having to shoot/melee them and I rarely even went into a bleedout state and being a Damage-type Warframe (which are my favorite types btw), I was almost always had the most damage dealt. Now, I can't even get over 10% damage dealt and I fall into a bleedout state in half a blink. I tried running with the build I had before the rework and found Firequake to literally be completely useless (what's the point of a "100% chance knockdown augment" if you have to be standing 2 feet from an enemy for it to work). I didn't even have range mods on my Ember; she was purely Power/Efficiency/Firequake with a little extra Duration and 100% Range. Now I feel like she's a glorified target with more bark than bite.

In the state Ember is in right now, players have to choose either a high damage, no range, no cc build or adequate range, no damage, Firequake cc build. I get Ember was a rookie deterrent. but trading her crowd control ability (her only real means of staying alive period) for more damage was as far from the answer one could possibly get. Instead of doing that, scaling her ability down when playing weaker missions would have been the proper way to go, IMO.

I know there are other frames I can play that are basically the same as what Ember was, but even with Ember's best ability in such a horrid state, she is still my top favorite frame and nothing will change that. You can very well say that it was because of Ember that I started playing Warframe, when I saw her Warframe Profile. I deeply hope Ember will make a comeback and soon.

Let me tell you there was a time back in the days even accelerant did not re stun before the duration did run out and WoF did not prioritize close targets without a fire dot where I started to play the frame you actually had to get good at fireball and later move into a status weapon. Guess what the frame was considered unplayable back then, while still out damaging 3 other players combined 1h into survival.

Please do not make claims about damage when you only did it with WoF, this would be just as stupid as complaining about crush damage in the days when polarise killed corpus at any given enemy level. Let me tell you you did no damage at all, given that even with 200% power strength WOF did only hit for 800 damage + 2800 as dot. You talk about 3600 damage per unit, where WoF can hit about 3 unit per second. Compare that to a vhek, that assuming you build it around accelerant and have the debuff up on the target, could do 100.000 fire damage(before cats and arcane buffs) in a single shot, can shoot more then once per second and can hit multiple targets via punch trough.

You are also mistaken that Firequake became bad with the changes, it was awful before that as well. A Ember with Firequake in your group in a sorti was literally a 50% damage nerf to everybody capable of doing head shots and this people did honestly believe they are useful in that builds...

Ember since accelerant is not a new player friendly frame, because it is fairly heavy on the gear grind and has more complex mechanics when it comes to damage, given that it scales with fire and you only looking for modifiers to that fire damage. Same comes to weapons, where a lot weapon that the community think are not so good are actually very very good.

Ember was never gone, it is always there and it will always perform excellent in the right hands while doing close to nothing in the hands of others. If you can get over your WoF habit, you might see that there is actually a real damage frame under the "P4TW" that has no damage issues in scaling content and actually received quite a lot of over buffing with DEs latest weapon changes. What you see here is the stupidity of the Mara Detron changes that make even dedicated anti armor weapons like my boar prime pointless in a L100 sorti extra armor interception by just melting through stuff with amplified raw dps:

https://i.imgur.com/Y5DrbaA.jpg

 

[Ember Needs a Buff]

Il y a 2 heures, taiiat a dit :

(which, as ever the solution to is as simple as the Host adding 20ms of fakelag to itself in terms of where the Enemies think the Host Player is - which then makes Hosts on equal footing with Clients)

I think it is not as simple as adding "fakelag" when you look at the code while programming. NPCs do not require to actually have line of sight to take "aim" they know where you are and aim at a vector to your current position while using a wallhack(even max level CS bots are coded that way, what makes the difference is the fine tuning accuracy on the first shot and adding delays to mirror human like reaction speeds) what can be perceived very easy with a cloaking frame that gets shot by everybody instantly once cloak drops.

In my opinion the game should have 2 different aiming models when it comes to treat host or client players(even if the U17 update kind of mange to archive a balance without implementing this what is a very impressive task from a programming pov). If you play on 500ms ping you are basically impossible to hit as long as you do not stand still(to be fair it would be also impossible to dodge any kind of attack at this ping rates, given what you seen on screen is halve a second behind of what is actually happening) while as a host you can not stop getting hit before you break line of sight what is absurd for both cases.

[Ember Needs a Buff]

il y a 40 minutes, General_Durandal a dit :

Whoa!

Okay, I quoted this in the OP, so people who don't scroll down to read other stuff have a chance to read it.

I don't have rank 3 Arcanes, or a Boar Riven, but i'll try as much of this out next time I take Ember for a spin.
(also have to rank up my Mara Detron)

You do not need a boar riven, the staticor(that has kind of strange mechanics when it comes to number of hits and status) or most of the secondary or primary bullet hoses and a few other weapons do this just fine without a riven. The reason I use a boar riven is that I really like my old boar prime. The weapon is, assuming you fix the base status chance with a riven, a very well rounded scaling weapon(mostly geared to scaling against armor) and much better from the design point of view then just double damage boltor treatments when it comes to making a interesting prime weapon, given that it only shown it's power at levels that hardly anybody played back in the days before the nerf to the base status chance and with a very specific mod setup.

You also do not need rank 3 arcanes, they offer in my case with Rage just more damage done on your primary weapon(assuming you use a shotgun or a automatic rifle since it is not really useful with other primary weapons by the proc condition and the percentage based rng that goes along with it). Arcane victory is very good on Ember if you already set up your game play to work with arcane rage, however accelerant buffed throwing weapon hits will provide a full heal on a channelled life strike like nearly all the time, given that you only need to do 14.5k damage for a full heal and accelerant as well as hidden modifiers for throwing weapons make this a no issue outside of very heavy armored units.

In the end modifications your base damage by various sources are very powerful on Ember, given that it is exponentially amplified by accelerant. Also different to flat damage buffs, dual status mods come at close to no damage loss all things considered what means your rather specific status approach to certain problems(like armor or aura protections) has no real dps drawback and is capable to take on any kind of meta gun, that in the past did not offer such scalability(with stuff like the akstilleto prime or Tigris prime it unfortunately does) on the damage meters without much effort.

Edit: Viral and Radiation might be 90% resisted by the infested faction(what they are not) and it would still make perfect sense to use a Detron against Infested with Ember. This is because it is still be a massive DPS gain by the way how accelrant works because you get 425% more fire damage against non squishy targets that take more then one hit via the viral proc(more so with higher power strength) and getting around a consistent 90% damage resistance(at high levels) with radiation and the proc transfer mechanic of ancient healers.

[Ember Needs a Buff]

Il y a 8 heures, Gilmaesh a dit :

Yeah grineers with slash proc are no jokes.

The issue is not slash procs, given that there a few ways around that damage like rolls(what reduces the damage by a lot during the animation), operator mode or running arcane victory for a rather constant HP regeneration in combination with shotguns.

The problem is that you get literally hit once you get into line of sight as Host(what you are as well as solo player) and movement(rolls, bullet jumping, breaking line of sight in rapid order) does not feel to change that in any meaningful way. While the problem is certainly amplified by the higher spawn rates and the open maps onslaught takes place in, it is not a onslaught only issue and can be perceived in normal game play as well. It is a mixed issue of DE having aiming kind of bound to latency(where solo/host  means non latency), hit scan weapons have no projectile travel time(no matter how little that is, it makes a massive difference like if you look at high level corpus) as well as accuracy and damage scaling kind of create broken results at levels that are considered as low with how the game changed in regards of weapon and frame damage over the years.

The problem with to high accuracy against Hosts is not a new one, it was also around in U15, where DE raised the accuracy because enemy units could not hit you in archwing, was considered as fixed by DE halve a year before U17(with no noticeable effect for solo/host players) and actually really fixed in U17 with the rework to solo endless missions, what was considering how much goes wrong with weapon and frame balance in the game kind of perfectly tuned with only little tweaks to life support in survival later on(did not found it to bad before the changes, given the mission became limited by kill speed not how much EHP you can stack to not get one hit killed).

Il y a 8 heures, General_Durandal a dit :

What's your Ember build?

What you are looking for is most likely a weapons guide, not so much a Ember build, given that there is no much difference between high level Ember builds, it all comes down to duration being a dump stat, strength you main stat and choosing a efficiency that allows you a sufficient utilization of accelerant and other abilities to play with:

 

This is a Boar Prime, a status shotgun from back in the days where DE ignores to change the base status chance back to 40% again since 2015, in favour of a double damage buff(what was completely pointless on a gun that is mostly effective by removing a 98-99% armor defence from targets) and riven sales(costs about 40p in trade chat so not really a thing). As you can see the gun has 4140 heat damage, what after taking flash accelerant and crit into account becomes 8133 heat damage, what after accelerant equals 34565 heat damage in my build. So you have a armor ignore, 40k damage per shot(before taking arcane rage, madurai or companion buffs into account), full auto shotgun with a wide spread to hit, CC and kill a lot of stuff on your screen at the same time, thx to punch through. Keep in mind L100 armored heavy units only have like 50k actual health and fire gets 25% bonus damage to it.

The detron is not only incredible powerful on Mag, but also on Ember. The reason for this is that it combines a massive amount of dps(that was more then enught to beat the brakk beyond L100 solo when it still did 1.5 times more base damage then the detrons), with the ability to disable auras via radiation procs and having viral what doubles your fire damage.

Like Gilmaesh pointed out, Onslaught is incredible RNG heavy. Title set, enemy faction or just something as random as eximus spawn rate can make it a catwalk or impossible odds at the same time and runs are not really that comparable as skill, gear or proficiency check as you might think.

While Ember is a bit more of a thinker frame, given that weapon choice and modding differs greatly from the meta and what you would use on other frames, is kind of a gear dependent(comparable with a vanilla WoW warrior) and considerable more difficult to play at higher levels then frames with 95% damage reduction or that clear/CC hole maps by the press of a button the frame does not perform bad at high levels, where WoF at any point in the last few years was just glorified CC(keep in mind 21k damage per WoF hit after the dot CC) and not utilizing accelerant and weapons modded around it was like throwing 95% of the damage you can do right out of the window.

[Ember Needs a Buff]

Clearly soloing 5 waves in normal onslaught is impossible with Ember.

The thing what really is annoying is the enemy aim botting against Solo\Host players what makes frames like Ember kind of pointless atm. I still wait for a U17 style fix that let you again enjoy soloing without having to shoot through cover with punch trough and avoid LOS like a plague.

Btw Onslaught is more or less designed around frames that can roll over spawn table on the hole map instead of killing stuff that is just in your cross air, like Saryn. In the end it is just "cheesy focus farming, the game mode".

[Elite Sanctuary MR lock]

il y a 55 minutes, Sloan441 a dit :

I also remember the reverse conclave rating DE insisted on us using in events. Generally, this meant you were taking unranked mods into the mission or only a couple. Artificial difficulty? Leveling the playing field? Maybe, but mostly it was just annoying.

It was all right, so people had to chose what to use and what not. Funny enught a fully modded boar prime had like no conclave rating at all.

As for the OP, it should not to difficult to carry newer players or not optimal frame choices, assuming you know what to do and can play your frame. I seen a equal amount of bad players at all spectrum of the MR rating and I would take a Mr5 over a Mr25 every day of the week if he knows what he is doing. This is what you would call a good old Saryn carry, performed by somebody that is a Ember main and just played Saryn a bit because of the over saturation of Embers till the last nerf.

[Sanctuary Onslaught. Wth is this?]

Il y a 4 heures, Dawson1917 a dit :

That is not possible in any endless mode in the game. You can't kill effectively without 4 Corrosive Projections. You have no way of getting the needed damage/defence buffs from other squadmates. Efficiency does not account for the lower spawns when solo, just like oxygen in Survival modes. Scaling is broken. DE hasn't tried doing these modes solo, or they're just too silly to bother fixing them.

Nonsense, 8 rounds should be easy enught for everybody that does not fall over his own feet once he actually has to do something more then pressing a single button over and over again.

This is currently me trying to get to wave 16 solo and I will be getting there with a bit more practice and looking into the mechanics(it would help a lot if DE would fix aim botting grenier vs host\solo players like they did in U17). After I did this with Saryn I will probably get a 2. Kohm and forma that for my Ember, given that even for my Boar prime there is just to much stuff on screen for a 20 round shotgun magazine to handle.

 

[Glaives and their viability]

Depends what you are looking for.

Throwing weapons are since years the best weapons for life stike(especially on damage buffing frame such as Ember in combination with head shots it is literally a full heal per throw), assuming they have high status chance and are status modded they are formidable L100+ anti armor weapons, however this will require astral twilight for the CC in the combo, berserker and fury as well as not having any space for melee timer increase. However they are on of the weapons that can cold(no melee counter, body count, blood rush, meme strike etc) shred a L100+ bombard in just seconds. Once you build up a melee counter, they literally just melt by the combination of high attack speed and rapid corrosive procs despite the low base damage...

As for pure melee they are decent to do anything but L100+ solo melee runs. Mostly by the lack of range and versatility against auras, what heavy blades can do a lot better, because of the guaranteed knock-down on tempo royal what makes it a lot easier to single out ancients or eximus and how well channelled ground finishers scale.

[Ember: World on Fire Range Reduction is not Helpful]

Le 12.4.2018 à 02:56, MuscleBeach a dit :

It's not blunt but this is me stating how I acknowledge this game is meant to be a bit overpowered and how Ember is not. 

Well if you do not have a quote from a designer of the game then you are guessing.

Ember is a balanced frame(outside of low level WOF spam) and a good benchmark when comparing game mechanics, frames, weapons and content.

 

Il y a 4 heures, (XB1)Young Boy HT a dit :

This would blow the forums up if this happened. Didn't quote the part, but ember needs a buff I agree with you there. Was playtesting her in the simulacrum, and her ability to take out high level enemies (corrupted bombards, heck even 120 infested she can't take down as well compared to most other frames) is so lackluster. She has absolutely no scaling damage. Lol I want to see what would happen if frosts snowglobe got removed. The backlash would be insane hehe. Not advocating it though.

She does fairly well scaling damage, you just have absolutely no clue about how to play the frame.

I made this after somebody was complaining that a even better weapon then the twin gremlins was unable to kill L30 units in his hands and everything needs huge buffs:

I made this to illustrate that extra armor L100 sorti in the kuva fortress are no issue to solo with Ember assuming you are not as mentally handicapped as the player in question that stated that only frames that can do this more or less afk(like Inaros) are viable, showcasing his incredible knowledge and skill:

I made this(and a couple of Saryn shots  at L160+ for a discussion about Saryn at melee). Sad truth it was a absolute waste of time, given that shadow step players did know nothing about melee or frame balance:

I made this just to point out how silly people where that demanded that the vhek needs the augment of the normal one to be useful a few years ago:

Ember does(and always did since accelerant was introduced) incredible high damage, with weapons(not WoF). The issue with people playing Ember is simply that:

- Everybody ignores the main damage scaling on Ember(what is fire damage on weapons in combination with crit or status and accelerant), even more so it was considered "good" to run around like a idiot in sortis with Firequake reducing my damage by halve by making it next to impossible to head shot stuff, while doing 30 times less damage then I do, it is that stupid.

- People play incredible bad once they lose her god mode and actually have to use movement, rolls, cover and ability/weapon based CC to stay alive, what means Ember becomes more or less unplayable to them at higher levels.

- People do not understand weapons in the game or the status system(uhm this can not be crit modded, pls buff DE!!!), every single "Ember is weak against armor" opinion is based around that. In reality corrosive/fire is incredible strong against armor and Ember with the right status weapon is just as armor ignore as Ash or Trinity.

If you try to look hard enught, you might realize that there is a actual incredible high damage frame under all the fire quake here and WoF there nonsense, that does so much dps that you laugh at people with her meta guns, chasing cheese tactics and whining like little girls here on the forums after every nerf, given that you will outdo them every time you run into them(beating up a overconfident Nidus players in sortis on the damage meters is just like beating up Boltor prime players 1h into a survival 2014 that told you Ember and your gun is "not good enught" for them, nothing really changed).

As for the OP, why would DE roll back a intended nerf to low level semi afk nukeing? While I think her approach is quite bad, given that it is easily bypassed with max range builds at low levels and people play so bad on Ember at high levels that they need every help they can get to stay alive(like extra WOF range without a lot of clicking), it is not like they look at feedback from people that play the frame well or people that just suggest random stuff "because why not". Then again it is what it is and can be bypassed with more clicking and is actually not really that noticeable for people like me given that you will most likely use a status weapon anyway that does CC everything first hit on Ember for high levels(I do).

Ember also got a huge, usable by the hole team as well, damage buff with the fire blast change. A thing that is as well beyond my ability to understand, given that it is no use to the common Ember player that does not use fire based weapon damage scaling and accelerant as well the vent Ember player(because we do not need more damage).

Then again they buffed the mara detron form 150k to 300k dps just to buff it again to 400k dps on Ember, because that was really needed on the already best secondary shotgun in the game(assuming you did understand the status system it was already better then the brakk at just 2/3 of it's damage).

If you take the viral proc into account that was already 1M effective dps fully cat buffed before they raised the damage again, that is stupid. Just as stupid as people complain about her damage ouput on Ember, given that they base this opinion around completely ignoring where Embers damage actually comes from.

[Blitz, Prime, Detonate - Ember tweaks (non-rework)]

I like the idea of Fireball consuming the dot for instant damage. I think I even suggested something like this myself with a WoF change that cuts base damage to 50 and instead allows 5% fire damage you deal against added to the dot.

More movement speed on accelerant would be a nice touch. I would be a big fan of giving it 10% more base status chance to Embers weapons to make more weapons on ember more suited for high level. Then again I tossed this mostly given DE just raises damage on everything with the secondary shotgun rework and now with the general weapon rework. It would be silly with that changes.

Removing rockets with Fire blast would be cool, even if the problem is that you are mostly not shot from the front so you do not see it coming, else you could just roll(for the damage reduction) or jump over it if you have the space on the map. The issue with basic mechanics on getting shot is that it is subject to enemy damage scaling what leads to one hit kills at higher levels. 

As for the agument suggestions:

Acuracity debuff is hit and miss, given it would be probably to strong or to weak, meaning that you never get hit or it does not provide the protection to be worth the slot.

Wildfire, would most likely take to much energy and time to set up at high levels when you need the damage outside of running off trinity support.

I believe the current fire damage buff would have been a very powerful augment, not really sure why it was added at base, given Ember given more damage around a static target is quite a viable choice compared to something with duration on accelerant what works far better on the move. The amount of fire damage buffs on Ember by now is already questionable, especially combined with the recent changes where nearly all weapons have a lot of status and older weapons that required status to work like the boar prime just gets incredible high damage buffs for not good reason.

Fire blast should still have the full ring on fire to more act like snow globe vs infested for slowing targets down that try to pass it to be placed on choke points or around defence targets to give you more room for moving around to do damage instead of focusing on melee units(like the first few units in next to every defence in the game). 

WoF

Making it just damage falloff instead of full range reduction would have been logical and most likely the thing DE would have done assuming it is not about switching it one and off. Simply put, I assume DE wanted to go back where this mechanic was in place without the duration timer, not because it was less powerful back then(because it was not at all), but it had no appeal to the masses back in the days. So adding more benefits to turn it on and off is most likely the thing they might add. 

In my personal opinion damage falloff is just as effective if the goal is to prevent low level nuking, since it does the same thing for AOE killing at lower levels.

I probably would have reduced WoF damage to 50 at base and allowed 5% of the fire damage done to the target added to the fire dot(if one is on the target). This would have fixed low level AOE nuking, makes status weapons for refreshing the dot more useful and making newer player more aware where Embers damage comes from. This also would synergise well with fireball consuming the dots.