Djego27
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Posts posted by Djego27
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On 21.9.2017 at 12:11 AM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:
I might be wrong, but the mindset that alot of frames only have one good ability seems to be based on truth for the most part.
Alot of frames have sub par kits, with abilities that flat out just dont do anything noticeably helpful past a certain point if at all. With DEs tight fisted energy econmoy, certain builds just dont work compared to others. It is much easier to mod for volt if you anticipate only using discharge and electric sheild. Its much easier to camp and rely on crowd control than it is to use shock and speed and fight on the go. Speed only lasts 10 seconds at base which makes it very difficult to improve on, and shock is basically discharge but smaller, shorter range, no tesla coils, and sometimes doesnt hit what you were aiming at or stun an enemy because that enemy was in the middle of another animation. Most frames have 1 or 2 good abilities. Take one away during a mission, and the player is just going to use the other one good ability in that kit or play with their weapons and some will fail and rage (i think taking away abilities is the opposute of fun gameplay)...no ones going to start relying on rip line or null star or fire ball.
Its almost as if these frames (especially older ones) are designed to be played just one way.
The thing is most people only use one ability and never really tried what the rest actually does. You see that a lot with Loki or Rino for example, where people hardly use anything else. As for Volt, shock is usable during reloading and does not force you in a cast animation what is very useful at higher levels, speed is very good to move around if you play the game normally, ofc it will not useful for camping. Well what is wrong if people actually would try to play Valkyr with a melee weapon(back in the days only new players used Hysteria on Valkyre, given that it did not do any damage compared to melee with Valkyre), playing Ember without WoF(like I basically did all the time before the WoF changes at higher levels) or a Nova actually uses antimatter absorb for once in a public game? All this frames got abilities that are build around to be used with weapons and are hardly used at all? Is it not fun to use the weapons?
Btw animations overriding stun effects is a common thing to most CC abilities outside of the ones that hard CC.
On 21.9.2017 at 12:57 AM, Almagnus1 said:WoF's going to be complete garbage in Plains of Eidolon... and if we move more towards open areas, WoF isn't going to be NEARLY as good as it somewhat is now.
Yeah lets rate WoF in content that nobody has played yet and most likely is just a thing for 2 weeks, like most of DEs stuff.
On 21.9.2017 at 12:57 AM, Almagnus1 said:WoF is fine, and all those saying it needs to change need to git gud and stop QQing about it.
Oh yeah, lets get on the level of people that QQ here on the forum to justify the current WoF and announce they will stop playing Ember when it is changed, because pressing 4 is the only thing they can do with Ember.
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On 17.9.2017 at 9:54 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:
I have seen suggestions for Embers world on fire that would make her more like banshee, where she loses her ability to use weapons, or also possibly some form of mobility...and i have seen suggestions that wish for wof to be more cc based, which if it was any more effective than it already is with fire quake, i can just imagine otd be just as annoying if not as game breakingly boring as molecular prime, where nothing can ever fight back.
Well being static would only solve exterminate, does little to low level defence, interception, excavation etc. It also would make WoF like it was before the toggling changes something that you never use on higher levels.
WoF is actually quite CC focused with high power strength in combination with a status weapon(what I mostly use at high levels outside of infested). It should probably improved a bit given that it is fairly rng based(target selection and that you realistically will not have 100% status chance on it) and not really something that helps a newer player that much, one of the reasons why many people complain about the frame comes from that.
Is the high CC you can get out of WoF and a status weapon boring? Depends, in the end it is just your method of doing higher levels, given that Ember is by the way WoF works very close range focused and can't really take damage. Different to other things that give you insane EHP, damage reduction, god mode or invisibility it is however quite a bit bound to player skill. You can test that out with a Ember in survivals, where playing better mostly means the difference between doing 40 or 60 minutes solo(assuming you are able to match the damage check to keep up life support) where you will experience, like I did, that the biggest problem is mostly behind the monitor and has little to do with the frame(before getting one shot by nearly everything what leaves no room for bad rng and will make you run out of revives sooner then later).
On 17.9.2017 at 9:54 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:Enemy scaling should be fixed, should have been, crowd control should never have been the solution for broken mechanics, it should not be more rewarding to a player to just sit in one spot and shoot stuff than if they wanted to run around the map.
Enemy damage scaling should be capped at around L100, outlines looked at(tech, toxic ancient, brusas ect) and tanks should go down to 5-7k EHP total, while also getting the damage reduced to less of damage frames(so Chroma does no longer 7 times the damage but would follow more the rino model where it is general below 2x damage what is a bit below damage frames in normal builds). Damage frames in return should lose her tanking abilities(scatter shield, hall of mirrors, eclipse or augments like assimilate) and tanks instead should be able to grab agro.
Beyond L100 or in challenging content(events, raids etc.) the game should instead of endless scaling enemy damage should randomly present penalties like the NM ones(except the 3x damage) or disabling 1-2 abilities at random for 5 minutes for a player to force people to improvise, what means cookie cutter team builds are far less effective(if you relied on something and lose it for 5 minutes). It also would help a lot of players to get out of the mind set that her frame only got one ability and that people have more reasons to play with each other. Armor should be additional HP bar, that still provides the current damage reduction but also takes normal damage and losing effectiveness by that.
On 17.9.2017 at 10:07 PM, el_chanis said:Ember's ult is only a problem if you are in such a low level mission that enemies will die even with a barely modded mk1-braton. Anything remotely challenging turns "World on Fire" in "Over average hot summer"
Last time I checked assuming 200% power strength, WoF in combination with accelerant does 18k damage per hit if you count the dot and can hit 2-4.5 times per second. While it is a trivial amount all things considered for Ember it is more then most players do with her weapons, outside of broken ones.
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On 16.9.2017 at 10:52 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:
having to shoot stuff doesnt make playing with a nova anyless brain dead.
Theres no challenge and thus no fun playing against a primed crowd. the current solution is to be on the opposite siide of the map or leave the mission, as with Ember.
How so? I never considered mprime as bad, be it with a speed nova for farming stuff or a slow nova in higher level missions.
Or is your point that by the years of overpowered weapons, rivens, focus, far to easy to play and tanky frames nothing really is a challenge and buffs like 2x damage, 75% rof and speed reduction for NPCs is not needed or wanted because of this today?
This was a extra armor survival sorti in the kuva fortress at L100, that I did solo(like most of my sortis) to give somebody a opinion about what you can and not can do with Ember as damage frame and how trivial the hole thing in comparison is with Inaros(it basically boils down to press 1 and then the melee button for finishers on defenceless targets that die in a single hit, while for some reason it can present a challenge even with 8 times the EHP and the broken weapons of today).
This was from last year for a discussion where somebody wanted to explain me here on the forums that Saryn is a good melee frame and would not believe me when I told him that Saryn is barely better then Ember at it, what has mostly to do how you have to mod weapons on Ember and is largely equalized since the the accelerant augment. Turns out Saryn is not the best thing since sliced bread for melee if you do not relied on broken stealth + gas proc interaction, the EHP discussion was fairly pointless given that both get more or less one hit anyway(so same deal for both) when things slow a bit more down and obviously somebody that relied on shadow step can not see the point of my complain that spore does not have a CC component.
I would like to say that both are decently challenging, but they are actually not because because the amount of broken mechanics at higher levels are not really something that requires good understanding of the game or a lot of player skill, but simply how to completely bypass the mechanics(like invisibility or god mode against damage scaling), what makes discussion about frame and weapon balance unfortunately pointless with most people here on the forum.
On 16.9.2017 at 10:52 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:We need solutions that arent nerfs.
And i would argue with you about fire ball being fine as is. Tempest barrage is the idea of how nice a one should be. For me. Hence the opposite opinion.
The problem is that you will not find a solution this way. It is a very strange mind set, while common in online games, it does not make any sense at all.
If you always balance upward, you would realistically also need to adjust the EHP and damage of NPCs, her abilities and rewards to keep the challenge comparable. DE did not do that and so you end up in a game that is fairly boring and can not really satisfy your desire to face a challenge as a player. We are currently stuck in a game where we have a L100 daily that hardly means anything and is for the most part just a patchwork of broken mechanics that people in generally just deal with by disabling the mechanic completely, hence leading to fairly non entertaining game play. On the flip side the same thing is fairly annoying if you get one shot killed by literally everything if you solo the same mission with Ember, while also not satisfying your urge as a damage frame player, since literally every halve way competent player with any frame can one shot stuff in the content with modern weapons, since it does not need good understand of weapon mechanics, massive damage buffs or clever use of status. This is exactly the expected outcome in a game where the community will complain that the game is to hard till it is playable semi afk without any effort and balancing stuff in it downwards should never be a option.
I main Ember since 2014 and played high level content back in the days completely without WoF, for the simple reason that you did lack the weapon damage for it outside of a negative duration build and that a 8s WoF that was prone to kill you during the cast animation at higher levels was not really appealing, beside of being a epic waste of energy and doing no damage compared to your weapons on top of it.
I do not see a issue with changing the way how WoF works at lower levels while playing Ember since years, so why do you think do you or other people here on the forums have them?
This is the 1-2 times a year case when you run into another Ember player that knows what he is doing(L80 secondary only sorti interception), this result has nothing to do with WoF damage(pre buff mara detron vs ak lex prime, so to speak a bit of a battle between old school status Ember vs newer crit based Ember approaches). For me it looks just like 2 well played damage frames, that do the same thing as other damage frames in the game at high levels and can archive that without WoF damage.
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On 16.9.2017 at 4:36 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:
If you really believed in what you said, you would realized you suggested an answer to your own question, but its not that simple.
You specifically stated "low level" Aoe damage spame, so i assume you wish to implement damage scaling or a critical system on their abilities, or else its just a nerf. Damage abilities dont work the way cc abilities do.
That. Is. My. Trigger. You said Aoe, and mentioned no effort in the same sentence, but didnt list off an cc frames. Thats why these kinds of threads are ridiculous. People act like molecular prime is fine as is, but youd have to have unmodded weapons and zero experience not to completely massacre the chain exploding puff balls always walking around when a nova is playing because she is too squishy to not spam molecular prime every where all the time past lvl 60. Zero. Fun. Completely ruins the game. Especially if Ember is there.
Also, fire blast needs the lame useless ring of fire removed, an update to something more like oberons hallowed ground would be nice. Fire ball needs splash damage and should remain on the map for a duration, until it burns out...my ideas.
A well rounded rant is the best rant.
The question is more about the average beneficial effect on the game as a hole(what I believe in), I am fairly aware that it is not popular.
A simple solution would be to just reduce the WoF damage down to 100 or 50 and add a scaling mechanics like adding 5% of the applied fire damage to the dot, what at least might make some people consider to put fire damage on her weapon before calling Ember bad at higher levels or defending the current WoF mechanic at lower levels for the sake of thinking that is the only thing you can do with Ember. After all WoF is for the most part a CC ability at higher levels and works fine as that.
You actually still need to shoot stuff after priming them, since Nova only brings soft CC(75% speed reduction) and a 200% damage buff to the table(the AOE explosion damage is static and does not matter at higher levels). I also not seeing the wild spread issue with Nova, given that a slow nova increases the time in the mission for most applications and is therefore not really a often used choice for low level missions and I never seen a complaint about a speed nova not making a mission entertaining(down to the point where people run with them into T4D or sortis because checking your build is apparently to hard).
I would actually like fire blast as working area that slows targets down by fire procs within the full area of the ring instead of removing it, even if it would be a bit niche, it would be pretty handy for soloing higher level defence stuff like this:
As for fire ball, while I would like to see a change to it, there is mechanical nothing wrong with it if you compare it to other 1s, it even got some more utility by the AOE(because drum roll it already has splash damage). If DE ever decides to rework the normal concept of a 1, I would like something like a fire damage buff to the next fire attack on the target that you did hit with fire ball, what would be pretty neat at higher levels and gives it tons of use.
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Well I suggested changes to WoF a lot in the past.
The problem is mostly that people are like passive, no effort game play and DE does not really care to change it.
- most people just use the frame for low levels and WoF spam, because it makes farming easy and they would just use something else if WoF would be changed
- you see it here in the thread as well on the first page here that Ember is apparently useless if WoF drops off in damage, what is the common opinion, even if WoF is mostly a CC tool and the damage does not contribute much to the total damage you can do with the frame
- people can not really rate changes to Embers WoF because they do not really understand the frame outside of pressing 4
It is actually just as frustrating for people that main Ember.
On 16.9.2017 at 10:56 AM, zNightWolfz said:get the hell over it already if you dont want ember then do it solo or with a group of your choosing but stop asking for ember to be nuked time and time again they changed her enough already if all you going do is ask for nukes on things because they are stronger than you then leave the freaking game and go play other things instead..
Ember received nothing then buffs over the years. However the only one people care for is the WoF change, because this apparently it is the only thing the frame can do, instead of what it is in reality, a fairly unreliable method of CC with minor damage component, at least if you look at it from the point of the total damage output you can archive with it.
On 16.9.2017 at 11:37 AM, CephalonNiksyn said:Okay, can I get some ETA on when these Ember haters will stop whining about how they don't get they kills because of some Ember and how it is annoying? BTW, it is not.
These threads are boring as hell. Ember won't be changed, deal with it. If DE rework Ember, people start complaining about Equinox and her ult. If Equinox is nerfed, they'll get to Mesa and her Peacemakers. If Mesa is nerfed, then next is Titania and her Dex Pixia/Divata.
Please, stop.
What exactly would be so bad at nerfing low level AOE damage spam of Ember, Equinox, Mesa and Titania? Last time I checked Warframe was quite a decent 3d person shooter, so what is so bad that at some people actually wanting to shoot her guns?
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That is not correct, it got strong riven disposition because incredible low usage, quite similar to most other shotguns. Even I as somebody that had it as his most used weapon in the hole game did not use it at all in that state. Keep in mind that is from somebody that actually likes the weapon mechanical, knows how status shotguns work and uses a frame where the weapon is very good on(like 1s kills speed on a L120+ eximus corrupted bombard good over 2 years ago where most of the OP guns of today did not exist).
Rivens are terrible, even more so on weapons that really need them to fix DEs vision of balance where the highest per shot shotgun got the same status chance as a weapon that got the lowest one and that stands and falls with that(the reason why there was no reason at all to use it for 1.5 years). This is incredible bad design and balance. The Tigris/Hek rivens are still better in the end, given that they add more than another mod to already over performing weapons that can do sortis without any kind of status mods and are similar effective against armored and unarmored targets(that scale much faster with HP, you can easily check that out if you run Tigris\Hek vs Boar prime for 40-60 waves of infested, grenier, corrupted or corpus defence solo).
Also the 140% vs any 60% roll for status do not make a big difference, what you simply need is to emulate the 40% base status it had before(what you can do with any 60% status roll) to get more useful elemental combos then corrosive/blast(what is terrible for kill speed on a low damage gun). In the end, with 40% base status(what it does not have since 2 years) it is one of the best weapons from a design point of view, given that it is not a very good low level weapon, it does not make other weapons in it's class useless, it will be just a bad shotgun if you do not understand it's mechanics and it actually comes with quite a few flaws. Nothingness it can beat meta guns in higher level content, in it's very specific niche(assuming you use a lot of frame powers and arcane buffs to do so, otherwise Tigris\Hek or similar broken weapons all the way). It was actually a lot more of a interesting weapon years ago where it did more or less the same, it has seen better days and that days are most likely not going to return, given that it most likely does never get fixed(with 40% base status) and there are a metric ton of weapons that can do just as good if not better in it's niche, while being far more universal given incredible high damage is good against everything, the highest proc rate in the hole game is not, it is just very good against one single thing.
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On 12.8.2017 at 10:07 AM, SamoussePrime said:
I've several friends playing WoW. They log ON to make raid with sick mechanics with no fail allowed from anyone of the party (btw they are full stuff with their "endgame" stuff), even if you completed everything you still have the game that challenge you.
Yea they do and it's always a fresh content or unexepted one! It's why I'm still up there but all your weapons/frames don't give a f*** about the no difficulty of those.
The problem is that for a good and challenging content you need to invest a lot of time and resources into game balance. If you look at vanilla WoW(you can do that on a private server if you want) and compare it to the current iteration(or even just TBC, what was the first expansion) you will see a massive leap in overall balance, making spec more viable, all the tanks viable, giving people options and providing more interesting mechanics to deal with.
In comparison Warframe is one of the most unbalanced games ever(weapons, frame powers, cheese etc.) where you can not make a tank check, since tanking most of the time means that your are literally impossible to kill, you can not do dps checks if a old player does hit for over 100k dps solo while a newer player would struggle to kill a L50 armored unit and you can not have healer checks, since everything instantly kills(by the design of the the scaling system and the normal HP pool of Warframes) and your main form of healing is damage reduction what you use 2 times per minute.
If you want challenge(I would like that to) you need balance first, what is something what DE is not really delivering, more so drifting away from it with new frames and weapons in the last year.
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What exactly has damage to do with it? The gun received a damage buff with the shotgun changes that at the same time with the base status chance reduction. Fast forward 2 years and it got a strong riven status and you never see it in any sorti(I never seen another player in them with it over the years).
Even back in the days before the shotgun changes it was not a often used weapon, since people same as today do not fully understand the mechanics of status shotguns, it has quite a few drawbacks and is fairly situational. However it was far superior in the void already 50 minutes into a survival, by the ability to scale very linear against high armor levels, to the Soma/Boltor prime what where considered to be the best weapons back then.
If you fix it by adding status with a riven(the other stats do not really matter) you can solo L100 extra armor sorti survival on the kuva fortress with it(with Ember, no cheese needed) what is more then most weapon in the game actually can. The problem is just even in a fixed state the niche of it is incredible small this days where a lot of other weapons are far less limited and just as or more effective in the niche the boar prime once had. This is however not the issue of the boar prime or it's damage but a issue with overall weapon balance.
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On 26.7.2017 at 5:34 AM, (Xbox One)DomTheKilleur said:
Remember when shotguns got a well deserved buff a few years ago? Of all the shotguns the Boar did not really benefited much and feels underwhelming compared to the other boom sticks of death. I'm not saying it's completely useless either but you know what I mean!
Could it get another look, please? And why does it sound like it was suppressed? I want to feel like Terry Crews in The Expendable movie.
Both status shotguns got nerfed into not really viable weapons during the shotgun changes(to be fair they where the only ones that where really used back then and quite powerful weapons compared to soma or boltor prime at high levels vs armor) what was fairly pointless given that Hek and Tigris outclassed both in her niche even in Sortis at this point.
On 26.7.2017 at 5:38 AM, (PS4)HarryMuff said:Yeah, I want to love the Boar Prime, but it's just too damned weak. Even with 100% status chance. It just needs a straight up damage buff.
The thing is a lot of people love to post how "good" it is in the similcarium while they never used it on 1h+ solo runs in the void where corrosive blast is utterly terrible for dps(on all status shotguns) and they would probably need large ammo restore every 30s. However what the gun lacks is not damage, but the 40% base status it had. You can add this with a riven(since DE will probably never fix it anyway).
It is probably one of the most balanced shotguns in the game(it does not make other weapons obsolete at lower levels and is very consistent and effective in it's anti armor niche at high levels for solo), quite different to the Heks and Tigris that are poorly tuned to make most of her weapon class pointless to use or the Tigris prime what just follows the trend of throwing best in game status on already best in game damage weapons for no reason but to just run into a endless power creep spiral with future weapons.
On 26.7.2017 at 6:22 PM, HunRii said:Boar Prime, the shotgun everyone wants to like, but no one does. It's just weak. I use Tigris Prime, or Vaykor Hek, in shotgun only missions. They are vastly superior in so many ways.
I like it, it was my most used weapon before the status shotgun nerfs in U17 and I used it again since you can fix it with a riven with status chance on it. One of the few cases where you can get something productive out of the mess that DE does with game balance in the last few years.
However the Boars do share that with the other shotguns compared to the Hek and Tigris. The problem is not with the boars but that shotgun weapon class balance is not that good and could use a lot of work. However given that DE literally ignored every single problem with weapons in the class in favour of just upping the damage in U17 and did the same thing again with the secondary shotguns a bit ago, chances to ever see decent weapon class balance for shotguns would be nothing I would bet money on at this point.
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Well it feels exactly like the shotgun changes that ignored most of the existing issues in favour of "big dps" and nerfed our actually fairly balanced status shotguns into pointless guns(that now have strong rivens).
As for shotgun secondary weapons.
Bronkos
The main problem of the bronko series is the bad usability(what might have been fine for the game they were designed for, but not really for the current warframe) and in case of the primes the lack of status.
Bronko
They literally build for another game with a lot less stuff on screen. Why not 140 damage with 4 rounds? This would be much more useful for newer players, since seeing the reload animation more then you actually shoot is not really useful.
AkBonko
8 rounds with 1.7s reload, status should be 30% and damage lowered to 112(-20% to the bronko).
Bronko prime.
Bring down the damage to 210(mara detron level) and change the status to 30%. Otherwise it is fine(a bit more status heavy Brakk in exchange of damage).
AkBonko Prime
Damage should be 157(-30% to the bronko prime), 8 rounds, 1.7s reload with a status chance of 40%. There is no real point of having massive damage on a status weapon(yes this counts for the Tigris prime and akstilleto prime as well...), fixing the utility problems(mag size and reload) combined with a proper status chance for a status shotgun makes it a very good alternative to the other secondary shotguns in specific situations(mostly against armor). The main power of it comes form status, that does not need high damage to go with it, similar as the boar prime is a very good weapon against high level armor(with a riven that fixes status since the shotgun buff...), while not outclassing other weapons in the same class for other applications.
Others
Brakk
Brakk was always the main choice for pure raw damage. While I never used it, since the old mara detron was more effective in combination with other status weapons even with the much lower damage, there is no point in less damage and less range over the detrons(that are better because of her status mechanics as elemental weapons as well as radiations procs that are more useful than pellet based slash procs later on). The Brakk should have 240 ish damage(with reductions to the detrons) to fill the role as damage choice.
Detron
Why does the elemental damage weapon more damage then the brakk? Radiation is nearly always better at higher levels(disables auras effective against the heaviest armored targets), being elemental makes it more reliable for status procs and has the better range on top of it?
The Detron should be somewhat under the Brakk(lets say 20% what puts it to 198, or 200 for more round numbers) for that advantages.
Mara Detron
This is most likely my most used secondary(even my preferred choice for secondary only sorti, even if all things considered the Staticor was better and still is, however that has more to do with the broken status mechanic and unlimited ammo on it, rather the the the mara detron being bad) and I did manage to beat a aklex prime on another Ember with it in a secondary only sorti(L80 corpus, interception 500 vs 600 ish kills).
Place it 20% under the normal detron(158 base damage) in damage for the extra rounds and higher rate of fire, if you want to be generous add 5% status, even if the extra 10% really buffed it a metric ton already.
Kohmak
Why mastery rank 10? The kohmak was a good alternative for new people that did not like the click spam of the other shotgun pistols and the constant reload of the Pyrana. It would probably a lot more attractive at MR4 or 5 and if you are at that replace the D with a V polarity.
Twin Kohmak
The bigger spread and recoil kind of counterbalance the damage buff. You might consider to tune spread and recoil to the old 5 round per second value for the new fire rate.
Damage falloff should be universal about 25-40% bigger given the big spread of the shotgun secondary weapons given that the damage loss at range by spread is already very high compared to Tigris and Hek.
I did not really use the Pyrana much before the changes so I can not really argue about it.
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Puncture procs should bypass armor and also reduce armor by some amount(preferable by the puncture damage that inflicted that proc). Armor should also have a hard cap of 90% damage reduction.
Magnetic should disable auras on the target(similar as radiation does it without the confusion affect, however it should also work on the unit that creates the aura, different to radiation). The effect on the tenno should be changed to just jamming the radar, deactivating all abilities and preventing use for 6s(what it already does), while the 100% energy loss should be removed.
Corrosive, if we had other status options for weapons that do not work so well with the proc(what puncture should be) is mostly fine. While it does not work on any status weapon the same(same as other procs), it is a very strong tool against the biggest damage mitigation in the game what makes this weapons, without being top tier useful for that niche(status shotguns, status rifles etc.).
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So basically 1 year ago:
A strong on demand CC does cost energy, similar to other frames.
A melee ability got damage falloff at range(remember all the players spamming EB and never use it at all at melee range back then?).
Parasitic aura stacking is broken and especially noticeable on channelling frames, similar as on other channelling frames.
Endless rewards where removed from the void, what is kind of a pity, given that I also did enjoy 1h+ solo runs(however without cheese).
Introduction of shadow dept mods was bad for melee, instead of fixing basic mechanics we got band aids like body count and "yeah all hits should red crit, because melee is so weak!" nonsense.
Duration and Efficiency changes where a buff to all channelling frames, you just can't dump all duration any more, however negative duration works just as good as before the changes.
About your current post:
Why not nerf the maiming strike attarax? I mean all what people do is slide attacks with quick melee without aiming, combos or melee builds. This has as much to do with melee combat as my glaive prime build on throwing channelling scaled up fire damage for life strike on Ember.Where do you draw the line if a frame is not a glass cannon? There are a lot of frames with less armor and without having her melee out all the time for life strike. Most of our frames die in a single hit at higher levels, the HP mods don't really matter, same as the armor value. This is mostly because DE uses a damage scaling mechanic that was never meant to produce good results at this levels, because we did not really play that levels often. Fast forward a few years we do L100 dailies, run around with weapons that one hit kill L100 targets, DE given up on the idea of status as a scaling mechanic for specific weapons that do not have a lot of damage by simply throwing it at high damage weapons as a bonus(like EB or literally any prime weapon during the last year) and we are given tool that can bypass the mechanic by invisibility, god mode or insane EHP pools(at least to a certain point).
DE should fix her enemy scaling mechanic into something that is actually playable with most frames and leaves room for taking hits and actually play the game without screwing around or being afk instead of the band aid solutions. The "git gut" would only apply to a game that is designed around a high skill cap, what warframe is not, you can easily see that in sortis where you revive mesas like 6 times with Nyx and get told to not use chaos(takes to long, nobody got time for that, just revive us, blablabla while not even managing to pull ahead in damage against nyx). However tanks should also nerfed down, because you should not have 15k+ EHP or 90% damage resistance, instead tanks should have abilities that draw agro to them, making them a viable asset to the team by protecting less durable things with her actions(like in any other multi player games).
Applying a broken mechanic to everything is not making it better, it just showcases how bad a mechanic without counters but massive benefits acts in a game with a lot of other broken stuff in it. Naramon does not enable viable melee builds, it literally removes any importance of armor, defensive abilities, CC or playing melee properly. It would be as if you give people a gun that one hits every target, the player can not take damage while wielding the gun for 6s after shooting and claiming this would improve gun play in the game.
As stated in a discussion about melee saryn(that actually can reach 80+ minutes in T3S solo without cheese what is solid for a melee frame) nearly a year ago as soon as you balance with naramon in mind that goes right out of the window, given that the lack of tanking does not matter at all and the stealth multipliers on gas procs are just ridiculous to a point where saryn is objectively the best melee and best AOE damage frame in the game at the same time, what is not true as soon as you remove a absolute broken mechanic.
Boss design is not really the strong suit of warframe, given that the only tool DE can use is "lets make it immune to all damage" what would work if it would not be bound to small hit boxed, opportunity windows you might miss during a reload and playing a mini survival against normal units that re spawns while fighting a boss, to make it less boring that you can not shoot the boss most of the time.
They nerfed the waves, not the blade. Melee is not spamming quick attack E, it is also not waving EB at range, it is actually killing stuff with your melee weapon at melee range using combos, knock downs, movement, channelling, CC and various other abilities, like blind in combination with EB what makes armored kills super easy. It is actually got a few more mechanics to it then gun play, even if most of the mechanics are unfortunately not really that polished(channelling, animation overriding knock downs or CC, the massive energy use on melee frames that is hardly sustainable with rage at high levels, QT stagger etc.).
I do not see how Excalibur needs more survivability, just because he is not a EHP brick? You can melee with a lot of frames quite effectively that have no damage reduction and even less EHP on them then excalibur that this frames do not have a ability to trigger finishers or a incredible high scaling melee weapon build into the frame(what EB is, just check it out how it actually performs for melee combat at high levels).
I think RJ should give 75%(affected by power strength) to your effective melee counter against a target that you hit with a melee weapon(not with the wave) for 12s, so it would be a nice addition to the augment, that is actually not bad, if you hit with all javelins it gives extra melee base damage what scales up with all other modifiers.
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On 16.6.2017 at 6:32 PM, (Xbox One)YouBitePi11ows said:
It's actually a simple quuestion to answer. Volts an old old Warframe. Back then no WF power scaled at all and he's received no tweaking lately.
That is not true:
Excalibur: Always could scale with melee finishers triggered by blind.
Mag: The old polarise did scale against corpus and in the void(where it was a very strong damage frame and CC frame).
Vold: Speed is very good for melee, shield could be stacked for the crit multiplier(what was nerfed because this allowed volt to hit in the millions with a bit of stacking)
Ember: Ember can scale relatively easy with accelerant and fire modded weapons, with certain status weapons it was also one of the strongest anti armor frames in the game given that you have a incredible high scaling damage type against the HP under the armor(still is, but it is less outstanding nowadays), before DE decided to give it to a lot of frames on augments or abilities
Loki: Amazing for melee with the stealth bonuses and finishers, also the disarm forces targets into melee range and resets awareness what allows normal finishers even if they where alarmed before.
Rino: Roar is a very useful team damage buff and scales up damage.
Scalability in the game comes in many forms, even if most of them are not noticed to be even there and even less so properly utilized by players.
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On 12.6.2017 at 8:03 PM, Wrum said:
a good approach is itzal + grattler otherwise your out of luck
You can solo it with the dual decurion, what is all things considered probably the worst ranged weapon in archwing(takes like 2 minutes with a 5 forma build on it). Overall the only kind of meh archwing weapons are the dual decurion(lack of semi auto for accurate long range shots and a proper zoom for that) or corvas(lack of high fire rate, huge damage and massive spread, in comparison the grattler is like the same close range AOE concept and works incredible good by having all that), everything else is fairly decent.
On 12.6.2017 at 11:51 PM, mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa said:Jordas isn't locked behind a key, and is easily solo-able. Of course it's not solo-able with odonata (... lol, what did you expect? odonata can't do anything useful), but Amesha can do it, a friend of mine did it with Elytron, and I'm quite sure Itzal can do it. No potatoe required.
Odonata can do it as well and the energy shell grants similar as volts shield crit and base damage bonuses. Btw Odanata is the best melee archwing, because it does not die to rockets thx to the Disarray ability(what was a instant kill with no warning signs before they finally nerfed them down a while ago), what is huge given that melee has a higher kill speed then archwing guns and do not need catalysts to one hit anything you throw at them. Also repel is very useful to clear interception points, the defence target in the old defence or the push stuff away for a revive.
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On 12.6.2017 at 0:27 AM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:
Without his augments...not very viable endgame.
Assuming you mean Rino, no. Rinos augments do literally nothing at high levels. Btw ... is not a reasonable replacement for a the space where you should make arguments what makes you come to that conclusion why he is not viable at high levels.
On 12.6.2017 at 2:16 AM, giovanniluca said:Oh look, I used my super high rank weapon, Volt is strong.
Takes whatever frames buffes damage, deals even more damage. Octavia, Limbo with his augment, Banshee, armor removing frames, Mag.
We don't even know the details of the other members.
Besides the total kills are a bit low for that mission, did your team just cc the whole map in that sortie interception.
Let me see, I used a super strong weapon, what is a crit weapon, what again is no surprise since most crit weapons are the highest damage weapons and since volt scales with crit why should I not use one?
I used a crit weapon and a high damage shotgun, so did the other players:
There was no damage buffing.
Ofc you will have a high amount of CC with 3 very strong CC frames in that interception, given that Vauban, Frost and Volt are very solid CC frames. As for kills it is mostly in line what you see in extra armor sortis while actually fighting against the full armor amount(minus 30% from my CP). To get a lot more kills you would need a lot of map wide damage, otherwise 70 weapon kills per single round is fairly solid for a single player at higher levels outside of more status driven frames(Ember is for example on of those) that can punch through this with little issues.
On 12.6.2017 at 3:04 AM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:But those are weapons (on the volt does enough damage argument). Its fargone now, this game is already down that road, but there was a time where weapons and warframe abilities could be considered possibly on par. Now weapons far outshine warframe abilities in damage and its considered normal. In fact, warframe abilities (unless they are are exalted) seem to be generally seen as good for nothing unless they have some form of crowd control. I think the op wants a strong volt, not strong weapons. Crits only do so much. If i crit with the sheild, do i not need to crit with naramon? Or a kavat? Or mods on my weapon?
As for Ember, who doesnt know how to use accelerant? Did they say they didnt know, or did you assume they didnt know because they were complaining about damage fall off on wof? And if she was a starter frame, the low availability of mods and lack of experience would leave players incapable of having wof run infinitely. They would actually use her quite differently i suspect, even more so if fireball actually did something useful.
I could use your argument against you and will. How can you justify given new players not only an impenetrable sheild but easy, key board rolling, un mitigated crowd control over trash mob grineer (who are the first faction you meet) or excaliburs radial blind and expect that person to do anything after that point in warframe but expect to be able to make the crowds of enemies stand still or the game is too hard and sucks.
Volts abilities do directly buff weapons, what is incredible powerful and actually directly benefits form weapon buffs.
I say the very very big majority of people playing Ember(most likely 99% or even higher) do not know what accelerant does, because this is what I see every single day in public games and it is very very uncommon you actually see another Ember utilize it properly. I see that maybe 2 times per year.
This is a little bit of status Ember(Mara Detron) vs crit Ember(aklex prime) in a L80 corpus secondary only sorti interception, I next to never see stuff like this:
What you see here is a very powerful group based damage buff, that next to nobody uses on Ember and next to nobody can use outside of Ember, given that it requires pure fire damage on the weapon and only shows it's real potential if you combine it with other scaling modifiers and very specific weapons that work well with the buff by the base stats and how many mod slots you have to play around with. What might or most likely might not lead you to weapons that have less damage, less crit, less status, incredible high spread and less rounds in the magazine, but still manage to outdo what people consider the strongest secondary in the game working with the same damage scaling mechanic. The reason for this is that the heat scaling mechanics if you go into status become a bit more complex, where a weapon most people consider as mastery fodder actually can be surprisingly good.
Edit: Don't get me wrong the aklex prime is incredible powerful on Ember, doing well over 150k dps(that is multiple times Tigris prime damage per second) and was most likely played like this in that sorti, given that the kill count falls in line fairly well with the damage per second difference(what is around 30k).
Wof is the easy acquirable thing on Ember, you see WOF Embers everywhere. However high damage Ember players are not everywhere, they are just as rare as a high damage Ember was before the WoF changes, because Embers damage output is not WoF related.
I actually picked mag as starter frame when I made a 2. account the test the new player experience again 2 years ago, simply because this was my 2. most used frame when I started since I got the prime parts on the side while farming for other stuff and actually really liked mag. This is not because Volt is weak, but because I liked mags mechanics more.
I sold my Excalibur starter frame to make room for Ember and never looked back, however I do agree that Excalibur is vastly overturned with exalted blade, given that finishers triggered by radial blind already give the frame a metric ton of damage.
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On 11.6.2017 at 9:38 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:
Ember. I think the forums would explode, but she is kind of nooby too.
Why would you expose new players to one of the biggest grinds in the game, on one of the least understood frames that is very narrow in weapon selection and modding on top of that? As for noob frame, just look on the forums you nearly have every single week a buff ember thread, because people do not realize what accelerant does and that they actually play a very weapon damage focused frame(and a quite good one at that actually, if you not mod your weapons wrong, what nearly every single Ember player in the game does all the time) instead of a frame that does everything by standing around afk and pressing 4 at higher levels. Similar to that you can look at this thread and see not a single person pointing out that Volt actually scales very well. Volt is also a weapon based frame, with the focus on crit weapons(the most buffed thing in the last 2 years) at range by the interaction with the shield and a very fancy high speed melee, what does very impressive damage.
On 11.6.2017 at 5:05 PM, DP_KRoM said:I agree Volt is a good frame as he is right now. But..... I would like his skills to deal more damage xD
Volt does enught damage, just use your ranged weapons with the shield or a melee with speed. This is today's sorti L80 interception with extra armor(I played it with Ember the first time, just replayed it for the thread here with Volt). Guess who did the most revives and CC as well...
On 11.6.2017 at 10:55 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:Rhino abilities dont scale either, such is life
Last time I checked roar does scale as damage buff and stomp does as AOE CC.
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Well the idea is to chose, if vacuum is so important to you that you have to use a sentinel, then this is a personal choice. I for myself next to never use sentinels, given her poor damage, utility and survivability at higher levels compared to Kavats and Kubros.
In my personal opinion, Kubrows need work, 2 of 5 do not really do what they are supposed to do(because of in combat mechanics and in case of the cheesa because the range should be 4-8 times what it is so it can actually pick up ammo for you while you can not move away from a position like in high level defence missions). Sunika needs another role and the capture target thing should be a 3 kubrow percept since it is far to niche.
Other then that, outside of path finding issues, AI bugs and some annoying stuff like kuva sentinels rag doll them to death in one hit or how stupid her interaction is with our poorly designed god mode bosses that easy never get out of god mode if they have something in melee range they are fairly useful, even if they need more forma, resources and a few clicks more each day.
I never would use wyrm over my raksha kubrow, because the shield restore on the kubrow is far better for what you need at high levels and the CC is just far superior. Sahasa, how useful is auto loot pickup when you are 60 waves into a solo defence or 1h+ into solo survival? Not really much given that ammo and energy drops are rare at this levels, what makes a companion that can generate them for you much better then one that picks them up. Same as the old cheesa, that could pick up the loot for you on halve of the map, when you are unable to actually move away from your defence target, what you are if you do like 40 or more waves tower defence with Frost solo. Sure it takes a lot more time then running around and let vacuum suck them in, however that is not a problem for this applications, since you are not going anywhere and later waves take a bit more time on herself anyway.
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1. I think the same about it. Also yes the ez mode nerf is not popular, mostly because this is the only thing what people do with the frame I guess.
2. Well Electric and Ice(that could need a buff like a ice patch to give the proc some AOE CC like electric) do not stack as well. Slash is not universal usable(it depends on the weapon) and does not do much on most status weapons(because of the low damage) while toxic prevents you using corrosive on the weapon. Corrosive and Heat on the other hand cut through the biggest EHP targets in the game relatively well, especially on status weapons if you combine it with accelerant.
4. WoF is not reliable. While you can use your weapons also against a lot of the things, most weapons do not have a AOE effect what speeds that up a lot. When DE considers to add features to Shock, Pull and similar abilities to make them more important to use, then would be a good point to change Fireball as well.
5. I played with the idea of a team bases status buff in the days where status weapons where better balanced than damage weapons and since there is no frame that provides something like this(unlike damage and crit buffs) I did believe that it fits Ember. However the suggestion with the base status buff is limited to Ember only, mostly to reduce weapon/mod grind for newer players and addressing some issues where you need rivens to make status weapons work on Ember(since they perform rather binary on Ember by the different modding compared to other frames). I did abandon the idea of a general team based status buff for weapons, given that DE just slaps status as "extra" on crit and high damage weapons nowadays and status is hardly used with the damage available to us anyway and only utilized in very long endurance runs for the few broken parts of the concept, hardly as scaling replacement for raw damage.
While you can make a few older weapons like my Boar Prime usable on Ember again with Rivens, I consider this a absurd requirement(did it nothingness myself), especially for newer players, what is also not present on any single other frame in the game(where rivens just make a weapon a bit better, not make or break it).
As for Flash Accelerant, in my current flash accelerant build(170% power strength) it adds 85% heat(what will most of the time combine into gas or radiation) what is fairly lacklustre. If it remains as fire you could utilize the accelerant scaling, what brings it up to 360% fire damage at what point it would be comparable to other double damage bonuses(mprime, spore etc.) while it also costs a mod slot and weaker CC/damage from WoF. While it is double damage on paper on a fully modded weapon, it does not affect slash procs, toxin procs or higher bonuses\better armor scaling damage types on weapons. It is in practical application mostly less useful on normally modded weapon would perform with a universal 200% damage buff.
If you would reduce flash accelerant to lets say 30%, you would end up with 51% bonus damage(less then a status mod) after accelerant 216% heat damage what would be worse then a weapon with just 2 90% elemental damage mods(because with normal base damage + 180% you already look at 280%) and a normal 200% damage buff(after damage bonuses) that affects all damage done(including abilities).
In the end my suggestion like the others are mostly about accessibility and general usefulness in a pug, if you actually make some use of accelerant weapon damage scaling with people that not build her weapons around that. Last time I did actually utilize accelerant with one of my weapons that are build around it while not playing Ember myself I did over 60% of the team damage with Trinity in 40 waves ODD, given that nobody else(including the Ember player) actually used this buff for her weapon damage.
6. Well I do not think it is sensible to rework Fireball into something much more useful then other first abilities outside of it being a general rework, including other first abilities. This is because Ember is actually fairly balanced(if you ignore or already done the excessive grind that leads to that point) compared to other damage frames at higher levels.
The knock back is sometimes useful if you do a revive or try to get melee units off your back/off a defence target, while the ring could be useful if it would provide a consistent soft CC in a certain area, similar as snow globe does. If it provides the basic area denial functions like snow globe can, it is a bit niche, however quite useful for that niches.
I do not think that Ember needs % based damage, given that Ember is already one of the stronger options of damage frames to burst down single targets, even if it is not perceived as such. I also do not see the real use for high damage on Fire Blast, given that ability damage of Ember is very insignificant compared to weapon based damage where you can use WoF just as CC(or do not use it at all back in the days, given that it was just a waste of energy for like no damage and rng CC at L100) because you are not depended on WoF damage at all.
Double tick rate on heat procs would be with the changes I mentioned for WoF quite powerful.
7. I think you did underestimate what you suggested with the scalable damage.
If you hit the unit for 10% of his max HP with WoF as heat damage, it will scale up to 50% after accelerant(200% power strength). If you further add viral procs(something Ember can do fairly easy on her own with the right weapon, like a staticor or my favoured secondary the Mara detron) it will one hit kill any target without shield or armor on the first hit at any level. If you consider that Ember might as well be armor ignore(because that is what you can do with status weapons) or use 4 CP armor is off the table. If you again stack it with just mprime it will also reliable kill everything WoF hits the first time guaranteed in a 4 CP environment no matter the level outside of heat eximus coverage(that add a 90% heat resistance to units nearby and are immune to heat). Also since it would be the base damage, the dot scales of that as well what means the dot alone would be lethal to any unit without shield, armor or aura protection. In the end you would have to move all the damage to something else, since it is otherwise just a matter of damage multiplication to get a WoF that kills at any level.
As for my suggestion:
- Yes it keeps the eruptions(mostly for CC).
- Yes it is with the base damage nerf.
- It means exactly what you think it does.
My boar prime with my riven does 2386 fire damage(4076 after flash accellerant fire bonus, 17323 after accelerant). 1/3 of that pellets will proc heat per single shot where it adds 982 to the dot, that it also refreshes. Since the dot itself is raw damage again, it is in return again affected by accelerant again what brings it up 4173 more damage on the dot per single shot. The boar prime can shoot 4.7 times per second, so 19615 extra dot damage per second. That is 60k damage as dot on the unit per single second in about 3 seconds build up, before you add additional damage buffs. With a weapon that most of the community consider as bad, our first primed shotgun, 170% power strength on a frame that apparently can not deal enught damage at higher levels and flash accelerant.
It gives WoF greater scaling and balances out crit vs status weapon builds on Ember, what is good.
I for myself hate to run into a fire quake Ember in sortis. If we assume that status Ember is super vintage and I could be as well the last player playing like this because for all I know I never seen another player doing this. This only leaves more modern crit/head shot raw heat damage scaling Ember builds. Accelerant and WoF will line up and pin targets in place for very easy head shots(similar as on Frost if you use Ice Wave Impedance) what can easily put you over 200k dps, if you be a bit more fancy and did grind out arcanes, specific weapons and primed mods it is well over 500k consistent DPS(because Ember, while being a ridiculous grind scales very well with all kinds of improvements you can add) what is fairly impressive(at what point sortis are just another low level mission). If you now have a single fire quake Ember you literally lose 80% of your damage potential what is just as annoying as having a trinity running around and cast Well of Life on any single target non stop or a Limbo disabling everything but your melee damage in sortis, because of reasons. In the end spreading the explosion does a similar thing as fire quake does now, it reinforces the CC component and makes it less rng depended
There is nothing I would add that you could not really acquire as we speak, if you feel the need for that and really like Ember. The issue is mostly accessibility with Ember, what is only really present in the low level WoF option, the reason why nearly everybody considers Ember good for that, while next to nobody considers Ember as what it can be if you want to, a fairly balanced high level damage frame, that got 99 issues, however damage is non of them.
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It is most likely to moddest for what most people would wish for as a Ember buff.
Heat does provide more damage then other CC elements and adds CC, while it is not stackable like slash\toxin dots, that do not provide CC in return what I think is fine.
Energy gains are only possible by energy orbs while WoF is up so it would be not really a big use for most people. While I do agree that a more active "passive" would be a lot better for Ember, encouraging a active play style. I would like a split of the passive, adding like 1% power strength per fire proc stackable to 20-25% outside with WoF deactivated(so it becomes more of charge mechanic and turning on/off WoF at higher levels has purpose and benefits) and 2 points of HP regenerated per heat proc(both weapon and ability based) while WoF is up(affected by power strength) to replicate what I personally archive with arcane victory in combination with shotguns, since I think it is a bit ridiculous to grind out the required survivability for a squishy point blank frame like Ember purely with arcanes, given that throwing weapon life strike does not work as we speak and normal melee weapons do not scale that well with zero melee counter, react well to damage buffs they are build around and are able to reliable head shot in combination with the fire procs that root targets in place.
1. Fireball:
While I do agree that Fireball could use some added use at higher levels outside of CC, this change should probably come on all frames, not just on Ember. Outside of that fireball does what most other first abilities do, providing CC during a reload while the AOE damage can also be used to dispatch ospray disks on the ground, the old tar(before DE for some reason added HP scaling to it) or magnetic door/electric traps what is useful. I do however agree that 100% chance for the fire proc on AOE would be good.
I do no see the point of the knock down, given that it prevents you from dealing reasonable damage with Ember, given that it is quite counter productive to knock stuff down while you could as well line them up for easy head shots with fire procs. I do however agree that something should be done for the augment to make buffing others possible while moving.
2. Accelerant:
I would most likely add 10% base status chance to all weapons till the timer run out or 5% depending on power strength(what gives a bit more room for older players, yet would be more limiting for newer ones). The reason for that is the amount of limitations when it comes to weapon choice with Ember as we speak and it would fix many issues with DEs status weapon design, that does not work so well for Ember on a lot of weapons because of modding restraints when it comes to fire damage.
I would also like to see that the added fire damage from flash accelerant would always be treated as stand alone fire damage, similar as it works with Toxic Lash on Saryn to provide at least some scalability for other players in combination with accelerant, given that the chances they use weapons where fire does not combine in other elements are very slim in a public game.
3. Fire Blast
I would keep the fire ring and just set the hole ring on fire and give it once per second the current WoF chance(35% affected by power strength) to proc heat on targets within it. This way it would be a good tool to slow at least melee units at a defence target down or slow down re spawns from one direction, what can be fairly handy at higher levels. However I would limit it to 1 with that change. I do not think that buffing the damage does much, given
The augment with percentage of HP as heat AOE damage would be massive overkill, given that it would be incredible highly amplified with accellerant and different to a Saryn with a sobek, Ember has a lot more ways to get around armor/shield/aura protection with her weapon modding and is the much stronger single target damage frame by the high self damage buff, making singling out L100+ bombards\heavy gunners easy compared to saryn, where you most of the time use smaller units to weaken the stronger ones, where you have to break them first without that massive damage buff on the Sobek to archive the much weaker effect.
I kind of like the higher heat tick rate since it would work well with adding some stack ability to heat while WoF is up, however this is already good enught to be the augment, given how well Ember works with status weapons and a good choice compared to flash accelerant, that depening on the status weapon can allready be fairly effective on weapons like the prisma grakata that can only use one heat mod in my build(so you trade about 1/3 of the up front damage for a stronger scaling dot what I would call beneficial at higher levels, given that the dot there has far more time to work).
4. World on Fire:
I would not add LoS to WoF, not because that I hate LoS and it would not make sense but because how buggy it can be where you get shot by stuff that is not in LoS, because it is behind a small cover or behind another unit. Given the high up time you would need with accelerant to compensate for that it would make Ember even more problematic with the energy at higher levels. I do not believe that Ember needs scalable WoF damage, especially not if you easily can multiply that with accelerant and various ways to push to one hit kill levels without armor(what you can remove as well with CP or other means). What would be more sensible would be to change any fire proc when in WoF range to a scale one where 10% of the heat damage(affected by power strength) with a proc gets added to the old proc and the timer refreshed. The smooths out the progression between status(that heat proc a lot for lower damage) and crit weapons(that heat proc a lot less for much higher damage) on Ember, gives more value to the status change of accelerant, more value to additional heat procs with WoF and to a mechanic that would consume heat procs at twice the time for twice the damage like you suggested.
As for fire quake, I would probably change it towards hitting another 1-3 additional targets around the target it hits with the same same damage and proc rate of WoF, so it does retain it's use for additional CC while not triggering the knock downs that cost you a ton of dps and synergies better with the other changes and fire procs.
The damage nerf is probably already enught to make Ember less common for nuking lower levels. I would however also like to see the base proc chance of WoF raised to 40%, to improve the CC component for newer players, given that they just lost a lot of passive damage while most likely not having weapons to make up for that(that are in the game and the reason you can already solo sortis with Ember today, even if the common opinion is that Ember lacks the damage for that).
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First I would like to say I am sorry for overreacting in your heat damage thread, as I completely overlooked that the way I learned math might not be a useful approach depeing on how math, logical or abstract thinking was educated on a individual basis and putting things in relationship might make zero sense for people that are do not have a deep understanding of the things and will actually understandable not be able to relate to it.
I think your problem is the way you look at it mathematical.
You assume there is a value x that expresses the normal shot and a value y that expresses the multi shot, what is fine as a basic model, even if it will not be used like this in programming, for performance reasons and because it would be a unnecessary abstract way for a machine to look at it it mathematically in practical application(even if it might be more understandable for a normal human that way).
Minimal background:
0 and 1 are not only numbers in math but defined states, with special meaning to them. 0 is your expression of the lack of something that is not there in any measurable amount while 1 is your neutral element. You can multiply or divide everything with 1 and it will stay the same.
x = our normal shot not affected by multi shot
y = your multi shot base value
a = your amount of multi shot you add or remove
z = the actual amount of shots fired
x + (y * a) = z
If we look at this your way it would look like this with your model:
Riven: 1 + (0 * - 1.08) = 1
Hells Chamber: 1 + (0 * 1.2) = 1
Both mods: 1 + (0 * (1.2 - 1.08)) = 1
So by defining it is multiplicative and the base value for multi shot should be 0, nothing works. However as we see that is just because we multiply with 0 what will always result in 0(because quantities of nothing are still nothing, it is not measurable, because we can not define it better mathematically), so we need a neutral element to be able to describe a lack of something with something else then 0 to produce the intended mathematical result(since 1 * 0 is also 0 that still keeps our formula correct) or in the case we add something we see a change by multiplication. Since 1 is our common neutral element in math, lets just define y as 1.
1 + (1 * -1.08) = -0.08 1 + (1 * 1.2) = 2.2 1 + (1 * (1.2 - 1.08)) = 1.12
This all produces the expected outcome, with the exception of -0.08 that actually was in the game and did heal stuff you did shot before DE added a exception for that in her code(you define for the machine every number lower then 0 should be not negative but 0 as mathematical rule). However since we already figured out that we need a neutral element for describing mathematically multi shot as something that is there even if it is not, we also do not need normal shots expressed with x because we can included them in y as the base value what makes it much easier to process for a machine as this:
z = y * a++; if(z < 0) z = 0;
For a machine the existence of a normal shot makes no sense because this is simply a concept that our brain can relate to easier and can be removed, even if it is actually there because it is in our mathematical model included in the multi shot all the time, simply by defining what multi shot is different.
What you request is basically this:
z = y * a++; if(z < 1) z = 1;
However at this point DE could probably completely remove the modifier, given that people would just use a damage mod instead of a multi shot mod and the rivens would still probably be re rolled anyway, given that it is a massive damage loss.
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While I agree that enemy damage and the way we play high levels should be changed however it most likely will never really happen, given that there is no super easy mechanic that you can add to archive that.
On 27.5.2017 at 3:10 AM, Somb3rBivalve said:So how do we fix it? Now, the closest thing that I know of in regards to this sort of thing that DE is working on is the way that they are approaching damage 3.0 from an enemy perspective by making more interesting enemies to fight rather than changing the numbers on many weapons and frames (and likely screwing with people’s builds). The question is, what mechanics can/will these new enemies have that would circumvent the problem of player CC? Well, for me, the first thing that comes to mind is some sort of CC immunity aura that some of the heavier units could have, and I want to distinguish here that it would only be CC immunity, not full power immunity like nullifiers. I feel like this could be good for the game because, right now, crowd-killing damage is king, so having these CC immunity auras would put more emphasis on single target damage to take out the aura-producing units (like bows, snipers, and single target abilities like ember’s fireball). The CC immunity auras could also be moved to eximus units as a substitute for the enemy weakspots (which I never really liked). I recognize this isn’t a very elegant solution, and there’s a lot of potential for the auras to have somewhat arbitrary boundaries, so if anyone can think of an alternative, I am open to that.
The problem with that is that frames like Ember or Vauban use CC as substitute for EHP, you can not survive even if we reduce enemy damage to levels where it makes sense with our current EHP on most frames, while frames like Chorma are balanced around close to no CC(that still can be added to the frame with various weapons) and the requirement to take and survive damage to do damage in return. It would also remove the ability to do solo high level defence missions, given that the defence target would take to much damage. It would also highly buff big EHP frames, given that the damage they take would be even more trivial compared to her HP pool while the inability to CC something reliable is a big issues for CC based caster frames.
You do already build around the highest EHP targets for single target damage at high levels, even if that does not apply to sorti since the level is to low/DE gave us to much power in from of OP weapons, abilities and cheese mechanics. Lets assume you solo 60 waves of ODD with a frame like Ember, you will not do that with a Ignis or similar AOE weapons, you use specific weapons build around eximus fossilized units, since they are by far the biggest EHP part of any single wave, while chargers still die instantly in a single hit at L150 with weapons that are capable keep up millions over millions fossilized HP every single wave solo.
To produce something like a challenging and balanced end game, you will have to do screwing with a lot of numbers, weapons and frames to get something useful in the end. That is a lot of work, for a minority of players and a majority of people never see a huge benefit from it, since they not play at higher levels or look for a challenge.
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What balancing point of the akbronko prime do you mean? Out of the box with the long reload/small mag or a riven build? I got a akbronko prime riven and rolled 50% reload and mag size on it to bring it to the reload and mag capacity that I suggested in the past however the last stat is status duration, so I would have to keep rerolling till I hit mag size, reload and status chance. Then again even with all the rng to fix it, I it can not bring radiation procs to the table and even with a perfect riven will realistically not beat the mara detron in damage against everything at higher levels in the void or the staticor for status.
While a secondary build around condition overload is a bit more specific, in the end there are other weapons that also can trigger 3-4 status effects in rapid succession, without the weird reload mechanic that requires multiple slots to adjust for it on the weapon and since pressing reload does not start the reload feels strange(what is not that noticeable on archguns outside of the dual decurion where a similar feature would be nice, given the big magazines).
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On 27.5.2017 at 2:00 PM, yles9056 said:
Now that shieldgating is coming, can we have mods that reduce shield recharge delay?
Either introduce new mods, or change the effect of Fast Deflection to reduce shield recharge delay. That would be really great.
Well DE should add a reduction to the delay to the fast deflection mod.
If you are really interested into making full use of your shields as a buffer with close to 100% uptime at full there is already one, it is called protect and one of the 2 mods on a raksa kubrow. While it does not change the delay, the delay gets override if you get a shield buff what the protect mods does in rapid succession. One of the few reasons why I highly prefer it over kavats and sentinels for soloing high level missions.
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On 27.5.2017 at 8:58 AM, MortalMercenary said:
Currently Steel Fiber sits at 110% increase which is nice when a frame has a respectable amount of armor or when a frame's abilities work around the armor, i.e. Chroma and Rhino, but other less armored frames dont really benefit from Steel Fiber at all.
So what if Steel Fiber saw a boost to say 440% like we see on Redirection and Vitality? at the highest end of base armor on Valkyr Prime would see at base 92% Damage Reduction with her armor, now thats quite a lot of DR but considering how high armor can reach on enemies this would seem a bit like a balance of the scales in some cases and in others wouldnt really do anything too much more for the high end of Tanky Frames but would end up doing a lot more for the frame with not that much armor. For frames at the lower values of armor this would just allow them to be a bit less paper thin when fighting enemies. Looking at the low end of Armor we have base Banshee sitting at 15 armor would put her at 81 armor just 16 more armor above Banshee Prime's armor value, now I know this isnt really worth it in this case but this is a decent buff for Banshee's Survivability.
It would be much better to make steel fibre 110% or 150 extra armor(whatever it is higher) what would help lower armoured frames a lot more.
World on Fire, Again.
in Warframes
Posted · Edited by Djego27
Well the game does offer a lot of play styles. The question would be if it is satisfying for you to play it in a set way, even if you think that it is boring that way. The issue, that some things will always be much easier to a point where anybody can do it, because you simply disabling game mechanics and other things that require more thinking, planning and execution where you do not work your way around broken mechanics is significant harder is around for years in the game. The question would be how much the game should gather to one direction more(mostly by the not so good base mechanics) then the other. However Volt and Saryn do work to a certain point with interesting game play and you can play them as such with a bit of getting used to it. I do more or less the same with Ember, given I most likely would have stopped playing warframe(even if I do not play it a lot as a hole anyway this days) if this is all you can do.
However it does not has to be like this. There where changes to solo defence/survival in U17 that where just one point on the patch list that changed how NPCs spawn and attack that basically made the hold thing enjoyable without snow globe and stuff like this in a much more active and entertaining fashion.
I for myself liked the idea of the challenge missions DE did for a shot time. However it implementation was so bad(simply because no effort or thought was put into it to actually deliver a fair challenge) that it left the game as quick as it came into it. L100 melee only infested defence was fun with Ember and is something what is in my eyes entertaining. Being unable to hit weak spots of L100 juggernaut by the way how melee hit boxes work against weak spots(basically you hit a spot where the npc can take no damage first and your attack will be registered that way, even if you clearly also hit the weak spot with it) on the other is not and the only reason DE did not realize and fix that most likely that they never actually tested it. That is the main difference to the U17 change, that was incredible well crafted and most likely tested against more active play styles and adjusted to fit them.
To be fair a lot of the problems come from that the game is not really playable without that mechanics at higher levels and that should have been addressed a long time ago, especially when the "we never balanced around that levels" changed to "now that levels are in a daily quest". However that can be changed like DE did with Survival and Defence in U17 and could do with changes to scaling and core mechanics on a bigger scope. If you do not need perma hard CC, invisibility or god mode to succeed, the lack of them at times or adjustment to make this tool less powerful is not such a big thing and allows players to completely play without them, if you so chose because it is more fun to you form a player perspective.
I to like Ember for the same reasons, even if everybody complains that WoF does not one hit stuff at higher levels and Ember is only useful at lower levels because of this.
Well Iron Jab can be used a soft CC like most 1 skills, however that is not so appealing on a frame that has god mode anyway.
Null star should proc blast, this means it is a soft CC against melee, what is actually not that bad on a speed nova.
Soul punch and fire ball can be used as soft CC as well and are useful as this at higher levels.
Psychic bolts was useful back in the days where you could not recast chaos as soft CC with the augment where it vastly improved how enjoyable Nyx was at higher levels. However it is not really that useful given that we have infinite energy now and just can double tab 4 for the knock down or use the assimilate to ignore the mechanics outright.
Spectra scream was always bad since it lacks utility features the other 1s got and Titania is overall just meh from the design point of view.
I do agree that WoF is enught CC as it is and it should probably go down in damage to be less of a map clearer at low levels.