[Cycron feedback]

On 21.5.2017 at 11:39 PM, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Sadly when I was looking to buy a Riven- most players selling we're adamant than -Magazine Size was offset because riven had +Multishot or +Damage

I consider -Magazine Size and -Rolling to be non-starters fr the Cycron

Now - Ammo Capacity (Max Reserve Ammo) would be a Cycron stat dump.

 

My current Riven is + Mag Capacity, +Heat, -Cast chance

 

Hoping enough players hate this weapon, that it gets changed to Strong Disposition 😊

 

Yeah that is always a big problem, I for myself would just buy a unrolled riven and start rolling myself on weapons where you need something specific instead of +crit, + damage and +multi shot like on my Boar prime.

I was not really impressed with the Cycron, then again this is most likely a expected outcome with a heat base damage weapon on Ember.

Even the concept is kind of strange:

- unlimited ammo is only really useful at high levels and can be added to a lot of weapons with primed pistole ammo mutation(exception would be twin grakata or similar ammo inefficient weapons)

- build in punch through what is nice

- guaranteed heat proc, however given the fire rate and status modding of my mara detron that gun might be as well have a guaranteed heat proc, while also bringing radiation procs to the table what is very good vs auras at high levels and can carry a 3 element of choice, like corrosive or viral

In the end, if you could skip the delay between the reloads by pressing the reload button and the reload time would be 1-1.5s shorter it would be all right. However currently you nearly need halve the mod space on the weapon to balance out the drawbacks, what would only be justified if it would do something incredible strong at high levels, what it does not if you compare it to status modded secondary weapons that I use in general.

 

 

[Let's talk Channeling.]

On 23.5.2017 at 5:12 PM, TheBrsrkr said:

Channeling is one of those things in Warframe that gets immediately overlooked by everyone who isn't a new player that doesn't know any better. If you ask anyone about channeling, they'd just be like "yeah, Life Strike is good", which is really what it amounts to for nearly everyone. That can't be good. Even Melee only players, when you can find them, never even consider channeling at any point. So what's the deal?

Well if we go to fully fledged out melee only runs, there are reasons to use channelling on frames that do not have what DE considers as melee ability(what is for the most part mostly universal game breaking powerful). It can be utilized on frames like Mag, Ember or Saryn in melee only runs at the right point of the combo that has a higher multiplier or ground finishers at L100+ ish stuff where it starts to get a bit more resistant to maintain high kill speed. However that was more of a thing before stuff like the event mods or conditional overload.

There is actually a use for stuff like killing blow or corrupt charge on throwing weapons in combination with high damage buffing frames like Ember for full HP life strikes at range. Unfortunately it is bugged and ranged life strike does not work currently. Also channelling does not work on the AOE explosion, given that they use the same button and cancel each other, what would be another interesting use of it(assuming the AOE explosion gets a rework in the status department).

Last but not least it can be used for stealth melee XP/focus farming(since it removes the body on kill, what prevents other units to get into the alarmed state by spotting a dead body) or to do some of the riven challenges.

The main problems I see with channelling:

- it is to expensive, given that it is only useful at higher levels that are also full of energy leech and where we use our energy as HP via QT and that melee builds in general dump power efficiency as well so it does not really work well, on top of that multiple hit units will consume multiple times the energy(like with big spin attacks) and there is no balance in energy use between quick low damage weapons(like daggers) or slower high damage weapons(like heavy blade or hammers)

 -> this could be a lot better if we had something like the old stamina system used for channelling, that does normally refill slowly but gets bonus points on melee hits and combos, so it builds up reasonable quick in melee combat and rebalancing channelling energy use and damage bonuses with the attack speed and base damage of a weapon

- it only is useful for damage, what is not that satisfying with status weapons

 -> DE should add a mod that gives 30% status on channelled strike and let that stack 4 times with a 6s window, that high attack rate status weapons can benefit from channelling as well, giving them quick and powerful status buffs for a few seconds when needed(like for CC or punching through high level armor with dots or corrosive procs)

- melee weapons have like no mod space on them, given the mandatory mods take all the space already

 -> the 5% life strike should be base line and the mod can add more and should also offer a new benefit(like a 5 times stackable 30 base armor for 20s) what helps mostly normal frames but can also be utilized on more tanky frames to bolster survivability and increase HP gains

-> there should be 1 or even 2 new mod slots just for channelling mods(that should be shared with throwing mods on throwing weapons) and mods should mostly act as customization what your weapon does during channelling, like improving your survivability, raw damage, status, changing IPS to elemental damage on channelled hits or even new things like hammer only small AOE knock-down on channelled hits, armor ignore for channelled attacks with daggers or dual daggers, small AOE stagger with channelled spin attacks on the single and dual swords etc.

In the end channelling as it is in the game is unfortunately just a concept, it is a bare bone mechanic that could be a very interesting if it would be properly integrated into melee and be something that you want to use often and effective as melee player.

[Nyx P/Saryn P advice]

On 26.5.2017 at 2:21 AM, (Xbox One)MalevolentEwok said:

Is that the build you have on your saryn prime? I don't mind investing time if I can make her super OP lol. I enjoy playing as her, but mine is relatively weak due to the fact I don't have very good mods ATM. How would you recommend I move forward?

The first posted one is my normal AOE build, that can be used for nearly everything. I do have another build that is for higher level melee only runs but that is probably not that much of a interesting thing for a newer player.

In general Saryn will perform ok with the basic mods however Transient fortitude and Overextended are very beneficial for AOE damage while primed continuity and fleeting expertise allow more use of stuff like Miasma for the added damage and mostly CC at higher levels.

What you should start focusing on at the start is at least one weapon that can utilize spore scaling damage and farming spy missions for status mods for your weapons. If you do not have a zenurik lense yet, consider getting one. Saryn is actually fairly good at focus farming, given that most kills are done by frame abilities and therefore to 100% count towards the focus gains if the lense is on the frame.

Staticor is a good choice. It can be build radiation/gas/electric(mostly infested)  to utilize the scaling. If you put a few forma on it you can use the last build slot you have for a radiation\corrosive\fire build what is very good on all frames vs high level armored targets(probably a bit to good given that it does not come with the downside of poor ammo economy like status rifles\shotguns) and can be used as additional weapon to deal with heavy targets that way on Saryn as well if you cover the spore mechanic with another weapon(can be your primary or a melee).

Sobek is as pointed out very strong on Saryn while it is easy to get and a very straight forward weapon. Only needs the acid shell mod that you can get for running Kela a bit and a few forma. It can be used fairly universal for damage types, given that it mostly relies on the viral mechanic of spores what is a big plus. It also does not require rare mods to work and you still have the option to add the syndicate mod for self healing and a bit more CC by procs.

For melee nearly everything works and what you should look for is high damage on the spin attack, given the guaranteed toxic proc on your 3 and that you transfer the toxic proc on first hit because your 3 also guarantees that. I mostly prefer the Mios for AOE damage because of the high range with primed reach, that is even increased by the high status and gas modding, what will fairly reliable proc at least once if you do a spin attack into multiple targets, increasing the range and spore spreading even more by the AOE gas explosion. Another useful thing to have on a melee is to have CC in the combos or high status in combination with a CC proc to compensate for the lack of CC outside of miasma spam, what is not really a viable thing for a newer player.

Edit: In general focus on a weapon that works well with Saryn first, then start working on the frame, focus, other weapons and collecting mods. Sobek, given that it works with very common mods and is fairly universal useful on all frames, it is probably a very good point to start as a new player. Staticor is also very universal in a radiation\corrosive\fire build given that armor is the strongest scaling HP mechanic in the game. It is often a thing in sortis or event missions and you will get a lot of use out of a good anti armor scaling status weapon.

[Either buff Soma/Prime or add a better LMG.]

On 27.5.2017 at 2:58 AM, Serialkillerwhale said:

So what you're telling me now, is that 1 year ago, the game was balanced. Now it isn't.

 

Also, "Rushing through spraying everywhere" only happens on low levels. You have to make every bullet count with an automatic. With semis, you just turn the autoclicker on and heck, don't even bother using Ammo case/mutation.

It never was balanced, but it was quite a bit less imbalanced then it is now for the weapon performance. I would also not say 1 year ago, but more 3 years ago.

I would not even consider the Soma as a LMG since it is simply a assault rifle with a fairly oversized magazine. However I would agree on a change towards LMGs like the Supra or Gorgons, that unfortunately never where more then just assault rifles with drawbacks and bigger models. While there is nothing wrong with the drawbacks like spread it does not really come with interesting mechanics like damage increase on successive hits, that reset if you let go the trigger or limiting movement if you start firing them.

Most people in the game actually do prefer more of a spray and pray approach(Tonkor, Synoid Simulor, full auto weapons are or where all very popular because of that). The Latrons and Dex Sybaris are more depended on actual aiming and scoring head shots, what makes them not that popular however the main advantage over the Soma at higher levels is not dps but mostly ammo efficiency while what is nice for people that like them, given that you can mown down a L100 sorti with the current Soma prime still without much issues.

 

On 27.5.2017 at 4:36 AM, ViS4GE said:

Soma is not as good as people think.

It never really was, upon release nobody used it, not because it was not a upgrade to the normal one but because the synoid gamacore did a lot more damage with infinite ammo. At lower levels where most people use her somas you might as well just use a status rifle what will perform comparably there and outperform it at L100+ ish. I for myself levelled the normal one for mastery and put 4 forma on the prime at release, giving it a fair shot but never used it much given that I never seen the point of massive overkill at lower levels and there where better specialized weapons for different tasks at higher levels around.

In the end there is little wrong with the Soma prime, it is something familiar for people that like recoilless assault rifles with the feature of a massive clip. It can do everything in the game all right and the top end choices for assault rifles are fairly comparable and balanced be it the prisma Grakata, Braton prime, the Boltors or the Somas so there is something for everybody(with the exception if you look for a puncture status rifle, a opportunity that DE missed with the tellos Boltor) while the most preferred option is not broken powerful compared to the rest, what is good since it gives people more real choice.

 

[Nyx P/Saryn P advice]

If you are a new player and look for a frame that can do everything from solo, star chart to sortis quick, helps you to farm focus, relict, mods etc pick saryn(you can switch the aura with that forma setup as well, I just use Rejuvenation most of the time because I do not really need more damage outside of high level solo melee only and you can ignore most of the toxin/slash procs that way).

You should run the boss for her normal parts a bit to get the acid shell mod. While Saryn with most weapons or at high levels is incredible power hungry even with 170% efficiency in a AOE nuke build only sustainable with Zenurik, you can just buy the sobek, put 6 forma on it(it is worth it, given how powerful it is as AOE shotgun at lower levels on all frames and how incredible good it scales on Saryn),  and you will make your Saryn hit very hard even beyond L100 or sortis at close to no energy cost. The reason for this is that 45% of the enemy HP as damage on kill as AOE is incredible powerful in combination with viral procs and dots on nearly all targets, add punch through and it makes most nuke frames pressing 4 as hard as possible look bad while you press 1 occasionally. It also can be modded non gas/toxic and still work on the basic AOE viral proc what is incredible good as soon as you run into L100 toxic eximus, given that you can put hardly a dent into them with your normal gas/toxic weapons.

Other then that, there are a lot of other weapons you can use to focus on gas/toxin damage transfer(throwing weapons with concealed explosives, staticor, Ignis, status build bows like the mutalist cernos,  Torid etc.). There are also a lot of options for melee to make use of raw single target damage(like heavy blade in combination with the viral procs and your 3) or a AOE status approach like on my primed reach gas Mios what ironically as melee is the better AOE weapon then explosives because it reaches much further and hits much harder, because you transfer all the power of the melee counter, guaranteed crits on spin attacks(if you do not have that mod, use conditional overload, nearly as good), what is as good as the old saryn doing the content hammering 4 before the rework, however you do not need to press 4 what saves a lot of energy, the range is better nowadays and if you go a bit higher in level the map does not instantly die, what allows for even less 1 pressing, given that you always have left over spores to spread to new spawns.

Saryn is a frame that can get stuff done(all the stuff) on her own, at very high speed, what is a good tool for newer players.

Nyx is more of a specialized CC frame, while incredible powerful in the right situation and more then capable to do all kind of missions solo, I do not use my Nyx prime that often, given it is literally to much CC in most cases. A Ash player last time I played Nyx complained that he could kill literally nothing in a L100 sorti, given that my Nyx and a slow Nova had the interception map on lock down where everything was basically unable to leave the spawn point.

Edit:

Chroma\Necros\Nidius vs Saryn L35 grenier syndicate interception(sobek only, would be a lot more one sided if I would have used my Mios):

Keep in mind that is literally best case for them, since your spores die out non stop given thatyn everything dies instantly. If you look for a frame that can deliver a incredible high, consistent and large area of effect damage you can not go wrong with Saryn and you will outperform most people in the game with ease at this once you learned how to play Saryn.

Edit2: This is how Saryn looks like if you go a bit more abusive and serious with your damage output in normal content like syndicate L40 Interceptions with the full force of area of effect melee damage(this mission did not include one but two Ember primes, that literally shut down WoF in protest... ).

[Failed Sortie missions lower riven chance drop?]

It is very unlikely that something like this is in place, even if I can not really relate to that, given that I play nearly all of my sortis solo and never seen a team that I could not carry outside of spy missions, where people try to combine her inexperience with the content with her stubbornness to refuse to wait on other players.

I also like how you look down on newer players, but rest assure nearly all high MR players that you see normally in sorti are similar inexperienced at the game or actually afk. I did try a few sortis on my 2. account, like shotgun only L100 grenier MD with 0 forma no patato normal frost and my 6 forma boar prime, my only shotgun on the account from the days before the shotgun buff, that was a giant nerf to the gun. I think 2 weeks ago I did one solo with rino(my first build frame) and my Tiberon(my first weapon I used a potato and forma on) and that is plenty to solo a L80 corpus interception if you bring 2-3 ammo restores you can also use as me just levelling stuff in the other slots. Just to screenshot the result for people that look down on newer players, consider non meta weapons absolute incapable to do sortis(what is sad) and like to point out that the new player frames do not belong in sorties, even if there is nothing wrong with that frames and only comes down to how they are played.

[Can we get a -60% Weapon Recoil mod for Shotguns please?]

There is no need for name calling or label the OP for his request. While I do not use a steady hands on my Mara Detron or a stabilizer on my prisma grakata the option is there for people that prefer the weapons modded this way.  Choice is good and I can see no reason why it should not be there for shotguns.

[Ember Tweaks: Passive, Ult, and More]

I would not say the fire quake augment is good, since it produces knock-downs what kills not only your own but the hole team dps.

 

On 21.5.2017 at 2:45 PM, Sajochi said:

Passive - World on Fire

Whenever Ember inflicts damage with abilities, she charges her WOF meter (shown as a percentage). As she gains charge, her Power Strength and Power Efficiency Grows. When her meter is charged fully, her next ability cast causes fiery explosions to erupt around her, dealing damage to enemies in range of Ember for 10s. Once the duration ends, her meter is reset.

Mechanics

• Charge is based on amount of damage inflicted and how many enemies are affected.
• Ember gains 1% Power efficiency for every 10% of charge, equaling 10% efficiency at full charge and in WoF mode (cannot go over 75% cap)
• Ember gains 3% Power Strength for every 10% charge, equaling 30% power strength at full charge and in WoF mode
• Heat procs last 2% longer every 10% charge, equaling 20% increased heat proc duration at full and in WoF mode
• WoF damage and range affected by mods, duration is unaffected
• Enemies are also inflicted with a knockdown
• All bonuses are lost when WoF ends, and must be charged up again

The idea behind this passive is to allow windows of power for Ember where players. I was thinking about the nature of fire when coming up with this: a small controlled burn that eventually grows out of control and burns out quickly. I'm not proposing a charge decay (unless in a null bubble) so as to reward the player and not feel like abilities were wasted. Instead, the decay is the 10s of WoF, where you can cause massive destruction and chaos.

 

So it is basically WoF like Syndicate proc on Ember? Also no knock-downs, they would be only useful for melee, then again you do not use WoF for melee. However you use accellerant and fireball for CC(because WoF lacks the range and CC in a melee build) and weapons with stances that produce knock-downs in the combo for channelled ground finishers(heavy blade and throwing weapons in particular).

On 21.5.2017 at 2:45 PM, Sajochi said:

Small Accellerant Addition

• Heat damage inflicted on affected enemies from weapons contributes to charge at half the rate.
• Embers damaging abilities on affected enemies builds charge even faster.

A consistency buff so Accelerant can work with the new passive.

Well you do not deal that much heat damage with your abilities at higher levels and it would defeat the point of more active play at lower levels if it would be this way, instead of the other way around, putting the scaling mostly on active weapon use, quite similar to Chroma.

On 21.5.2017 at 2:45 PM, Sajochi said:

The New Ultimate

By throwing WoF into the passive, Ember needs a new ult. I have a couple of ideas of what could work, both of which can be improved on. Please note, I am open to other suggestions if anyone has any.

Eruption - Nearby Enemies inflicted with Heat procs explode, dealing a mixture of blast and heat damage. Especially potent in Nova Mode.

• Has damage falloff over the explosion range
• Initial damage inflict a blast and heat proc in a smaller range, heat damage only towards the edge of the blast range.
• Proc chance is 100%, regardless of range
• New Augment: Continuous Eruption - New Enemies affected by heat procs have a chance to explode based on charge rate. 

-or-

Scorched Earth - Ember charges forward in a ball of fire, scorching the terrain under her, and exploding at the end of the the charge

• Scorched Terrain continually damages enemies, with a chance of inflicting a heat proc
• Ember knocks aside any enemies during her charge, and knocks away enemies in the explosion at the end of the charge
• The final explosion creates a large patch of Scorched Terrain
• Can be casted in air, with the charge direction centered to reticle.
• New Augment: Supernova - The final eruption leaves ember ignited, releasing waves of flames every time she bullet jumps for 15s.

That's all I have for now. If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to comment. My goal is to see every warframe have more interesting and interactive gameplay, so there might be others in the future.

 

Wouldn't Eruption be just like WoF with damage falloff over range and the unwanted blast procs?

Scorched Earth would be probably to lethal to yourself with the frame at higher levels.

In my opinion:

Accelrant: Add 10% base status chance to all of Embers weapons while accelerant is active. This removes a big part of the unreasonable grind attached to the weapons that can be really good on Ember as well as it fixes to some degree DEs decisions that older weapons like the boar prime or akbronko prime in status modding should need a riven for reaching 100% status with fire on Ember to acquire scalability while giving weapons like the Tigris prime the same status chance, that does not even need heat for 5 times more damage scaling, given it does 10 times the damage from the get go.

Fire blast: Set the hole ring on fire, so it can be used to protect a defence target from melee units by slowing them down or delay 1-2 respawn points(like we did back in the day with Frost and snow globes).

WoF: Drop the damage down from 400 to 50, improve the status chance to 40-45% and change any fire proc in WoF range into a scaling one by refreshing the dot on the next fire hit(both weapons and abilities) and adding 5%(affected by power strength) of the applied heat damage to the dot. This way WoF would lose next to all the appeal to kill low level missions without weapon use while adding some scalability to WoF. I for myself do not really need it, but there should be a somewhat more reasonable middle ground between "does not scale" and "scales fairly linear, against everything", similar to how it works with most other frames that do not require a epic grind before you can come to the conclusion that your frame is actually fairly good compared to other options.

[The survivability gap between frames is too high]

On 18.5.2017 at 7:03 PM, RistN said:

While I do realize what you are talking about I must say you can't look at it that way.Very bad approach to this subject.Banshee is one of the weekest warframes who gets easily killed in mid lvl missions but non the less she is no.1 end game warframe.Solo play is also a different story from team play. .

You're test is a bit pointless.You can do this mission with any of the warframes with right setups.You can't compare mid-low armored Sarin who is caster with straight up tank Inaros.

It would be like I wrote topic about why does Saryn kill more enemies on Hydron than Inaros to make some point.

Last time I checked(was last year) Saryn works fine at high levels solo, same as frames like Ember. The issue is simply unlimited enemy damage scaling what is unreasonable against 80% of the frames in the game at higher levels and will catch up to tank frames just a bit later. It is a bad mechanic, since it is not something avoidable by skill(I do not count cheese or CC spam as this) and you can not reasonable play with it at higher levels, no matter what frame. Changing the mechanic to something you can actually play with is in my opinion very good for the game, since it makes higher levels more skill based and interesting to play, given the player more ways to approach the problem.

[The survivability gap between frames is too high]

On 18.5.2017 at 3:34 PM, mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa said:

Invisibility and CC spamming are the base mechanics.

Look at Nyx: Chaos is useful only if the enemies tank a lot and deal a lot of damages. If the enemies don't tank, shoot until they're dead, don't cast Chaos; if the enemies don't do a lot of damage, shot until they're dead (they won't kill you anyway), don't cast Chaos.

Enemy scaling is too high when they 1-shot a frame with X survivability mods equipped (X is a number the design team has to define : nova with 0 mods should be one-shot by high-level enemies, but with 2 mods?); but the fact you have to spam CC/invi or use a tanky frame is normal.

 

They are not base mechanics, if you die instantly once you get shot once(like my Ember when the tech decided to override my fireball CC with his drone animation and killed me in a single shot in the L100 sorti today).

Since you came to the conclusion that we sometimes do it, and sometimes not it appears to be not normal, else we would do it at any given time. Also having the ability to completely ignore the hole mechanic(as far as what you can solo realistic at higher levels without cheese) while all other frames die in a single hit at L100 ish is not a carefully balanced design, it is the expected outcome if you apply a scaling mechanic, that was intended for L1-L45(where it does, as you agree works without CC spam or tanky frames) to daily L80 raids, L100 sortis or endless defence/survival(long after giving people weapons that makes it trivial for any frame to solo till L100 and beyond). How we play the game is a symptom of this mechanics and they should change. That the last time there where bigger changes(U17 with the removal of aimbotting hit scan weapon npcs and spawning changes to solo endless defence, interception and survival) what made it possible to finally drop the CC spam and play the game like a shooter. What you did before that with Ember was running basically from cover to cover and pressing 2 every 5s just 20 waves in, while after the changes I actually did play often till 40 or 60 solo because it was finally a enjoyable game play, where you can test your weapons, frame, aim and movement, instead of hammering a CC button non stop because you otherwise get shot down in a second or less. 

Pressing 2 every 5 seconds back then was also normal(20 waves into solo Helene to prevent you and the defence target getting shot at any range over all the map at the same time), same as the spawn pattern was literally the same for 4 players as it was for solo. This changes did not made the content trivial it made it finally reasonable playable and at least for me far more enjoyable, since they removed a brick wall with a steady rising difficulty and requirements to your weapons and frame what is the baseline to provide a interesting challenge at higher levels and my own motivation to play at higher levels. I do not want to ignore mechanics, I want to play with them in place, because they should define the game and not how we can ignore them the most effective way(like with tanks).

[Ember: Assessment and Suggestions]

Well Volt for pure ability damage is lacklustre, however if you use volt shield with a crit weapon or speed with a strong melee he can blow through nearly everything without much effort.

Saryn with a Sobek and the Acid Shell augment will beat any WoF Ember in any Exterminate full stop, while it works quite well even at L100. She works kind of like Ember played like this, press a button, just shoot and everything will die ridiculous quick, in case on Saryn even with a 15m AOE that is if you have punch through, dots up and viral going is more or less guaranteed lethal to everything it hits even at L100, where it works like kind of uncanny version of the mprime explosion on death, creating ridiculous domino effects.

Valkyr, do you need Hysteria at L100+? No you can use some fancy status mechanics and prolonged paralysis to kill nearly every level, armor or not next to instant with specific build status weapons.

Mag with a Mara Detron is incredible strong, given that is the only use case where people actually use decent detron builds it is no big surprise(ones that are build for status), same is true for Vauban and Ember(where it deals uncanny damage as well) where is is incredible good to disable auras at high levels, while the radiation damage does pull it's weight vs the brakk at L100+ in the void or against grenier.

Inaros/Chroma, her abilities in itself deal nearly no damage just by them self, but incredible high damage with the use of weapons, based on the bonuses her abilities give.

Ember works with nearly every crit weapon well if you go for head shots(because you just apply crit and head shot multipliers to the modded fire damage after you scaled it up with accelerat).

Status on Ember is even more interesting, given that accelerate scales different on status weapons and Ember different to many other frames actually has the ability to make weapons that are only considered good utility actually very good for damage at the same time, while providing armor ignore or the ability to bypass aura protection what are both incredible powerful things to have at high levels, while also putting everything you shoot into perma CC at the same time.

Ember is not that different then other frames when it comes to being mostly a weapon based frame, the main difference is that the frame is just not perceived as this because people only relay on WoF and accelerant is not a general all purpose damage buff, it requires a different style of weapon modding then you use on other frames and does also not scale on every weapon the same.

[The survivability gap between frames is too high]

Since I kind of like guessing games, why not play one.

On 15.5.2017 at 1:54 AM, Arezael said:

Where does it say that I didn't?

Well that would lead to agree or disagree with the opinion of the topic instead of mentioning that you do not have a problem with Necros or Mesa doing the same thing while ignoring the bad part of the mechanic, that is the topic at hand.

On 15.5.2017 at 1:54 AM, Arezael said:

Where do I state that this is a good game mechanic?

Most likely here:

On 14.5.2017 at 4:02 PM, Arezael said:

It may not be popular, but I expect DE want people to be more deliberate in their tactics and Frame choice when it comes to Sorties. That may mean only using certain frames under ideal circumstances, so I can't really argue if people struggle to solo some of them on particular frames - that was kinda the point.

 

On 15.5.2017 at 1:54 AM, Arezael said:

Where did I mention there being a punishment for solo? What does HP have to do with anything I have said?

 

On 14.5.2017 at 5:57 PM, Arezael said:

 

I believe the Developers are steering this game towards a more cooperative environment (see: the recent spate of Clan based events). 

To this end, you struggled with those Frames because you tried to solo. In an environment they meant for team play.

That was the point of more difficult missions, and I'm fine with it. It encourages people to work together and help cover what would otherwise be weaknesses.

Soloing them is about best compromise - as far as anyone I have ever compared high level endurance runs with.

The punishment is not for solo, it is directly related to effective EHP pools and enemy damage scaling on a lot of frames. I am also not sure what high level endurance runs have to do with a sorti, given that they are not comparable in difficulty and it is incredible uncommon to see any endurance runner ever show something interesting, since it is just cheese mode galore and fairly boring to watch and probably play as well.

On 15.5.2017 at 1:54 AM, Arezael said:

I thereafter help others do them as/when they ask, and I can assure you the reason I get asked is due to it not being a 'trivial task' for them. I know because I have asked, and they replied.

If you compare it to how the game was once, the amount of god mode, broken weapons, mechanics, frames and cheese DE throws at you I do. It comes to no big surprise that the only person that joined my infested MD yesterday was a Loki with a levelling Ignis(faceplam) and literally afk outside of running from defence target to defence target while standing around in cloak at high places being in fact afk. This did not change over the years, I remember playing L100 shogun only grenier MD on a normal frost without forma or a potato on my alt and somebody did join with a rank 0 shotgun and valkyr(got to have that god mode). I set my game to solo after that. Sorti is just as horrible as LFR is in WoW, because it does not teach people a thing about higher level game play(since they are literally afk or just cheese it all the time), is trivial with the tools at hand even solo and just full of broken mechanics by years old scaling mechanics that where never meant to produce a reasonable challenge at this levels. While you not consider Inaros as a tank, last time I used the frame for a L100 sorti to actually compare it to Ember(since I hardly play the sortis with other frames) it was incredible boring to me, given that you are not at any point in danger to die to any of the mechanics, again by bad balance, leaving me with the taste of fake challenge that is literally meant to be impossible to not get one shot killed by the same mechanics that are not even noticeable on other frames what is just stupid.

 

On 15.5.2017 at 1:54 AM, Arezael said:

This leads to one of the main points I was trying to make that apparently nobody has touched upon. I'll leave it for you to tell me what that is - since you apparently know, even though I haven't mentioned it.

It is most likely that you try to imply that we should be grateful for tools that allowing us to ignore mechanics and not insist on better balance since it would most likely remove brain dead easy mode, or I am wrong?

On 14.5.2017 at 5:57 PM, Arezael said:

Edit: one last point to clarify: yes there are 'easy' ways to progress though said content. Clearly DE struggle with balancing the game in general. If that's the point of contention, you will want to reconsider the ramifications of making the survivabilty of every frame the same, or even very close.

I do see your point, however disagree, given that 2 poorly balanced things that counter each other do not create good balance. Similar as the OP did hint that if you do the same task with Inaros or Shadow step where you basically just ignore the mechanic(like we do with so much others today as well) it only showcases how bad the basic mechanic and the counters are. I do not fear a sledgehammer nerf on tank frames, given that you would have no use for the current EHP in a working and manageable system for the majority of the frames with frames that still got more EHP. I would support any justified nerf to weapons, frames, mechanics, heck I even massively support a WoF nerf, as Ember main. It would be like me re subbing WoW, go into the Cata raids and try to re imagine all the struggle, laughs and the epic moment when you killed bosses for the first time, difficult choices who should die and life as a healer, difficult choices of what cool downs to use and save as a tank, difficult choices of how to adapt to other people play styles. All off that is gone, there are no 9 other people that play and enjoy that content every week with you, there is no struggle, no feel of progression, no feeling of getting beaten down what makes the feeling of success much more powerful in the end. You just look at barren husk of a careful crafted experience, that is now just you pressing a few buttons, getting things that are of no value to you and what you play for yourself, alone, without people that mock or encourage you to improve and dissatisfied with the experience while it was meant to be a great multi player experience, years ago. This is exactly what Waframe feels like nowadays to me, what is sad in my personal opinion.

If I was wrong, please let me know what you are all about.

[The survivability gap between frames is too high]

On 14.5.2017 at 4:02 PM, Arezael said:

I compeleted that S3 solo as Nekros and Mesa and had no difficulty with either.

You should give it a try with Ember or Saryn. I did not have any difficulties with Ember, however I scratch my head why getting one shot killed out of the blue is a good game mechanic and why you should be punished to solo the mission with a frame that got more or less the same HP as 80% of the other frames in the game.

On 14.5.2017 at 4:02 PM, Arezael said:

One issue here will be your choice of Frames, Saryn and Inaros do not have 'active' Damage reduction in the same vein as Shield of Shadows or Shatter Shield. (I don't count Inaros armour boost as the same category, so that may be a point of contention - it doesn't supply anything like the DR of the abilities I mentioned, because it carries secondary benefits)

The other issue will be that you're using melee - which I personally use on Survival because of said damage mitigation - without the aforementioned DR abilities in play. 

It may not be popular, but I expect DE want people to be more deliberate in their tactics and Frame choice when it comes to Sorties. That may mean only using certain frames under ideal circumstances, so I can't really argue if people struggle to solo some of them on particular frames - that was kinda the point.

Inaros is literally semi afk mode, given the HP pool and that every single hit will kill any unit and will 100% heal you. Melee has nothing to do with it, melee builds actually scale better on most frames(Saryn and Ember included, given that you do mod for more armor and QT instead of duration and range).

There is no such a thing as a frame choice for sortis, you could basically press the start button and get the reward with Mesa and Nekros given that there is literally nothing in the mission that can kill you while other frames get killed in single hits, it does not make any sense at all, given that it is also not a damage check(laughable, given that DE gives everybody literally the ability to one shot L100 stuff nowadays without even playing a frame with damage multiplication), team play or coming up with a specific plan for something as simply as 10 minutes in a L100 survival what is a trivial task for any damage frame outside of getting one shot killed.

[The survivability gap between frames is too high]

On 14.5.2017 at 10:05 PM, (Xbox One)RPColten said:

On the topic of there being a massive gap in survivability between frames, I think this also has to be taken into consideration from the perspective of this being a co-op game.

Take this team for example:

• Banshee: Damage amplification & periodic enemy stunning
• Nyx: Crowd-Control and aggro-drawing
• Trinity: Team health/energy support and squad damage-resistance buffing. Great tank as well
• Frost: Effective shielding and enemy debuffing

Each one has a role that they can fulfill in a the squad but can fall short on their own. Frost can survive pretty well but he lacks any significant damage boosting. Nyx can control the enemies pretty well but lacks any strong health/armour buffs. So on and so on.

When I take Trinity into a group, I know that I won't be paying much attention to fighting the enemies. I'm going to be focusing on the teams health/shields and the energy supply. I leave the DPS to the Mesa or Excalibur. If I take Chroma in there, I know that I will be focusing on staying alive and dealing as much damage as possible. I won't be able to support my team very well though.

I know going into missions as Saryn or Banshee, my effective survivability will come down to my maneuverability and dodging. I know the Nidus and Rhino are going to survive pretty well, so I do what I can to help boost team damage and stun the enemies. Are my effective hit points much, much lower? Absolutely. That is their design. Squishy, but provides a hefty damage boost.

Here is hoping that DE can introduce a more proper aggression-drawing system that players can use to make the role of Tanks more effective.

What DE should do is nerf the tanks(while there is nothing like a tank in the game, given that there is no agro mechanic and tanks do not fill a role in a party like in a MMO) to where rino is and adjust or just cap enemy damage scaling.

If squishy should do the damage, than frames like Chroma, Inaros, Mesa, Nidious etc. should deal like zero damage at all while they are in fact some of the hardest hitting in the game while Ember would need something like a 50 times base multiplier to accellerant, since 500k dps is not enught, better get 10M dps to compensate for being squishy(while you already deal 70%+ of the hole team damage if you play in a pug with the current Ember in sortis, especially extra armor grenier ones, because you are literally the only person that brings CP and a status weapon build around to punch through any level of armor). 

I also did play the sorti in question solo with Ember without any cheese, because I am tiered getting butchered in literally any radiation sorti by somebody playing a ash and spamming blade storm multiple times. It is not a interesting game play element if you hear a balista sound and press the respwan button, it is literally just bad design and a years old enemy scaling formula that was never intended for L100 and does literally not work at high levels, the reason why we spam map wide CC, cheese, invisibility or god mode since the base mechanic is not designed that you can reasonable play with it, even as low as level 100 on most frames.

If we should do a L100 daily, then it should be balanced around all frames, not the just the ones with the most HP. Given that it is absolutely NOT a DPS check, you can punch through it with nearly any modern weapon fairly easy, given how incredible bad weapon balance is this days(where the average player does not have to know how status or specific frames work, he just has point his weapon at something, press the left mouse button and it will die at L100). It does not need specific roles, a team setup or coordination, I can solo that with Ember and my prime weapon from 2014 quite easy, while the fame and the weapon is considered as incredible bad at high levels.

[Ember: Assessment and Suggestions]

On 14.5.2017 at 0:00 AM, Cornelius.EE said:

I completely agree, and thank you for the elaboration. I mostly intended to show that Accelerant is still powerful even with a build with very modest power strength.

I really hope that DE is keeping Accelerant independent of LoS on purpose. Despite the wording in my original post (which I will presently go back to and edit), I do not think a LoS nerf would be good for Ember. Basically, I have some anxiety that it might be hit with the nerf bat without a good reason and wanted to provide a mechanic that might mitigate a possible LoS nerf.

Well in my opinion it was mostly balanced against mprime and roar what where the first universal damage buffs where it is fairly comparable while the scaling is not as linear as the other abilities, given that we can influence the amount of heat damage on a weapon much better then the total amount of damage. 

Technically the only drawback of LoS would be that you have to cast it more for targets that where in range but not in line of sight at higher levels. My biggest problem with that would simply be how LoS works(or unfortunately often not) in Warframe. Knee high cover can put units out of line of sight when they are clearly visible or being slightly behind a corner while already shooting your will also not count for LoS, given that LoS in the game is most likely calculated by a point in the centre of the unit and as long as this has any thing between you and the unit, it does not count for LoS.

While it can be used to stun lock a certain area, it is not as reliable at that like a blind, given that certain animation can override the quick CC(like the ground slam of heavy units, throwing a flame bomb etc, same as they can override the fire CC) since they are a combined effect of quick CC(that can be overwritten by a animation as well) directly followed up the blind effect(what can not be overwritten). Also it is fairly energy inefficient to use accelerant every 3s. While this could be solved with a trinity, at this point you could be just as well use mag, that can put up a magnetize between crush(what is also not 100% reliable, given that it sometimes for some reason does not work on targets under lag, both before and after the change that did give the skill 3 ticks to lessen the issue) or banshee that allows for more consistent CC and the better damage buff, at the expense of being incredible boring to watch(given that this is mostly the game play people expecting you to do when you bring a banshee to a high level mission).

What was done back in the day in sorti interception, excavation or the LOR raid was basically you had a max range and duration mirage casting prism every 10-15s and you simply ignored all the enemy units, given that they could not do a thing. They never left the blind state and since there where not killed they also did not respawn. In comparison for the phoenix interception(L150 melee only interception) I came up with frost(for the ice wave impedance and a globe for the start of the round, given that you did die in a single hit), Loki(for the disarm), Nyx for the chaos and a slow Nova(for stackable over 90% slow in combination with Ice wave impedance) what I used to do the event for myself and all my clan mates that wanted the final mission done(people from recruitment after the mission stated they could have never imagined that it could be that easy). Theoretically you could have archived that all easier with just a single frame and prism(I just did not think of that back then). Aoe blind without LoS was just ridiculous powerful, even compared to what pure CC frames like Nyx or Frost for the most part can do. Keep in mind this was at a time before the frost rework(what would have made it trivial for frost to solo), before body count and blood rush, before shadow step or frames like Inaros or Nidius, where a L150 mission required good coordination with the tools we had back then(I actually did the first 2 steps with my melee Ember) while devs shamelessly published any hour or so the number of people that managed it(it was in the 300+ of the hole game when I finished it, after taking some sleep and thinking about a better option than 3 Excalibur and 1 Trinity what was the meta of how we did that back then and I think it did not extend 2k or so players in the end to get a fancy sigil, that I honestly never use ).

[Should nulls be removed from the game?]

On 14.5.2017 at 7:19 AM, (Xbox One)Ph4nt0mL0rdX said:

Take out sapping ospreys....

 

Snapping ospreys are fine, if they would not get scaling damage(or DE would consider other scaling methods for different mechanics) with her orbs that one hit you at high levels, same as the nullifiers would be fine if her globe would not block bullets and disallows you to shoot the units first before the bubble is down. Also her Lanka needs to be looked at, there is no reason why a unit should have a one hit kill weapon at L100+ while it is guaranteed immune to CC or damage for at least 3s and will pull off that shot next to all the time if you can not avoid Los and remove the bubble with punch through.

[Please buff Dual Decurion?]

Well I agree that zoom levels in Warframe do not make much sense, given that the guns that actually could be used a 3000m+ had far to little and the zoom we have on our normal snipers is barely usable outside of the big corpus interception map(where it is also not that useful given that hacking points are not all face the same direction what would allow to take that shots) because you barley have 50m in most rooms distance to a enemy unit.

However sniping in archwing Interceptions really was fairly efficient, given that you only had to kill 1-2 units ever 15s that way to hold the point.

I for myself never saw the problem with the semi auto dual decurion, because it does work as long as you can one shot stuff(what requires a unreasonable amount of resources, what you do not have to invest in other archwing weapons, however it could use some punch through to accomplish that better) but I can see your point. I guess the easiest option would just to use the alt fire to switch between semi auto and full auto, given that even in our current version of the interception map the you do not have the required line of sight to pull off long range shots as we speak.

[Please buff Dual Decurion?]

On 13.5.2017 at 5:14 PM, Cyborg-Rox said:

You think it's bad now? It used to be Semi-Auto!

It was actually a lot better when it was semi auto, given that it is basically like a oversized aklex without the damage but with the gimmick that you could actually snipe stuff with it. Before DE changed the interception maps you actually could kill stuff at another tower without going there, because it is one out of 2 archwing weapons without damage falloff.

It needs to be semi auto again and needs a clear return to zero point, what is present on the marloks, Lex, Seer, basically all normal heavy pistols but not on the dual decurion, what makes a accurate weapon with strong recoil more or less just behalves like the grakata and we already got the pahedra for that, while performing a similar awesome job as the base weapon for ripping through L100 sorti Uranus grenier underwater like paper with a status corrosive/fire build, while the dual decurion is a sniper that can barely hit something precise beyond 300m.

It also could need a base damage buff, because it is absurd that one of the 2 snipers deals 1/3 of the damage in click spam mode and the other option can one shot with the charged shot everything but the jordas golem while the dual decurion only did become decently reliable to pull that off at least for light units after a catalyst and multiple forma for me.

 

[Questioning the longevity of the game]

On 13.5.2017 at 11:52 PM, ImMrBloo said:

I would think of the contrary actually. The events that have come in the past two months have proven based on the rewards of 'your best score in a single mission' means they intend you to go end game. The fact that enemies scale is also indicative for end game play. End game play has always been a huge driving force for MANY players. Many of which left the game when the void changed the first time. The reality is it's not possible to hold a clan or alliance in a game filled with casual players. You need hardcore players to make a clan function. Clans are focused on for events, competitions, updates, and more especially with the upcoming updates. I do understand that the idea of end game is frightening to new players especially early on. But the idea of easy content for late game players is just as frightening. my suggestion isn't to abandon one or the other(like it currently is). But it's to since the systems are placed in there atm. Give incentive for players to continue playing. Clans/Alliance communities make up over 75% of the game. They're running by non casual players who have to invest their time into the games. If they all fizzled and burned out casual players wouldn't have friends to play with, people to learn from, place to purchase research, new event stuff and more. The only logical choice is not 'dw de focus on the new and casual players it's for the best' because oneday soon those casuals will be here at our place and the cycle will continue. I'm saying add a layer to the game that already has support systems so everyone wins. New and old, longterm and short term players alike. And in regards to one of the things bob said; stopping all stuff isn't what I meant. I meant in the sense add a layer so everyone wins. 

While I do agree that the basic reward system does no longer give a huge incentive to stay longer in a mission is a problem I would have a issue with the self defined hardcore attitude. I seen plenty of people in my clan that did buy the most expensive prime access to show that to her friends and being gone in a month or two, most likely to the next game one of his friends started, leaving Warfame behind. This is nothing unusual, most likely the normal way of how people consume F2P games and probably where DE gets most of her revenue from(comparable with fast food where you have a very big roll over time at the tables and don't expect people to come back any day).

There are also examples of the opposite, like Wildstar, where according to steam numbers only 0.5% of the people that did install the game did finish a max level dungeon, 0.3% did defeat the first raid boss in one of it's 3 raids and only 5 guilds in the hole world did beat the last raid(the first in like 6 hours or so, the second a few hours later, mostly because of time zone issues) in the last 6 months. All this while it is quite comparable to the most played MMO in the market, but a barren wasteland, even compared to private WoW servers given that it was fairly overturned for the "hardcore" at launch. If you go into dungeons, pvp or the raids you will actually run in the same people or alts of them most of the time, this is how small the amount of the player base that you see in difficult content really is.

DE could and probably should change the reward systems, so that you for higher waves/times in survival get a buff towards the rarer item drop chance and could change endless fissure missions that you just keep your relict after you get shown your roll and just pass it, for the chance to get something more to your liking during the next roll, while adding AABC with some drop chance buffs for B and C.

I also dislike how Nightmare missions work, since the no shield and 3x damage is a terrible one sided penalty, what is meaningless on some frames while it instantly kills most others. A better way would be keeping the shields and normal damage while adding lower ability damage/effect(like 90%) to warframe powers and disable 1-2 on a random basis, so players actually have for the most part shoot herself through the mission, like new players do it and have to play more careful, given that her 90%+ damage reduction, invisibility  or plain god mode might not work. It would also make penalties like vampire more meaningful, that kind of forces a aggressive play to stay alive. Combined with a like 10 minute lockout of that mission if you fail or abort it, to prevent people to just reroll the penalties till they are meaningless. 

As for endless play. I think it lost a lot over the years. I remember a time where 20 minutes was easy, 40 minutes was doable and 60 minutes was considered hard in survival, assuming you did not cheese your way through it with camping. I think that is a much better estimate of the attention span of most people and more the time frame that they actually want to stay in a mission before they want to do something else. However you can not really archive that if you give anybody weapons that still one hit kill the stuff at the 1h hour mark and compensate for that with enemies that also one shoot you, 3s CC immunity till the bubble is down like nullifiers that also one shot you and lots of other questionable mechanics. I for myself can not tell if the person that stays 100 or 150 waves in a defence is the better player or not, since it all comes down to pressing a button every few seconds or the mission fails while forcing people to remove all challenge, given that every shot to you is lethal, every shot to the defence target will fail the mission and overall it has little to do with a free to play shooter that actually has quite enjoyable shooter mechanics.

In general I believe DE is over stretching the goal of adding to much grind, for new and old players alike and could do some serious work with something they put in the game unintentional(like endless play) what can be even for casual players enjoyable, at least if you provide a fair level of challenge for everybody(not 0 challenge if you cheese it while expecting next to impossible challenge on the players that do not) and some reasons to sink her time into it.

On 14.5.2017 at 8:33 AM, MRmailman69 said:

Jesus bloo how long did it take you to write this? In any case i agree benn playing for anly about two months and have already comleted more than half the damn content in the game( not counting wepons but i dont really have much of an incentive to get em mr14 got my tigris p aklex p war pretty much all i need got most of the frames too).

 

This is also one of the big issues with the game today, you basically only realistic need 1-2 weapons for everything and then you are done, because that weapons are good at everything and we do not run into a situation where we would prefer something else in our daily play. While the opinion of players back when I started was more or less the same with Soma\Boltor prime, marlok and dakra prime there where a lot of interesting weapons that did specific things better and all this god tier weapons did actually struggle after the 40 minute mark more then weapons that where not even considered to be good, given that most people also did not go beyond the 40 minute mark and her benchmark was just the common L1 till L80 back then, while the top end damage weapons today also have status for some absurd reason tagged on to them as well to render all the interesting side tools that do not see that much use in general fairly pointless at places where they used to shine.

[Ember: Assessment and Suggestions]

I am fairly sure the channelling follows the same rules then the initial blast, given that being right on top of a target is most of the time the safest distance and longer range units like balistas are incredible painful because they are mostly unaffected if you do not spot them early and get on top of them.

[Ember: Assessment and Suggestions]

On 10.5.2017 at 5:15 AM, Cornelius.EE said:

Passive:

Ember is an energy-hungry frame. Her two best abilities benefit from power strength (damage multiplier for Accelerant and status chance for World on Fire). For this reason, I like her passive and have made intentional (though situational) use of it, for example by stepping into environmental fire during the early stages of some missions before Energy Overflow kicks in. I am fine with her passive as is. However, Ember has no damage mitigation abilities. Additionally, most effective Ember builds require modding for range, strength, and efficiency at the same time, which leaves little room for survivability mods. This means that setting yourself on fire could also be really dangerous. As such, giving Ember some amount of passive resistance to fire damage would be welcome. It would make her passive more effective. It won't be too OP either. Consider a typical Grineer crowd. While some resistance to fire damage may help against that Scorch that wants to turn you into chicken barbeque, it won't do anything against the Heavy Gunners, Bombards, and slash procs. Fire resistance will however open up some situational benefits for Ember (not dying as fast if you step on residual napalm fire while reviving a teammate, better survivability at the end of some sabotage missions, etc.)

 

The main issue with it is that on low level weapons if the map is not under the "fire" condition it is next to impossible to trigger it, given that you most likely kill units like scorches or Napalms before they can set you on fire and on high levels it is just lethal what makes it also pointless. Given that a channelling ability also disables the energy gain from the passive, it is only really a thing for melee where you do not use WoF. Even then you need to roll or life strike constantly to negate the dot damage and certainly not that much of a deal, given that the energy you get from it is trivial compared to what you burn with casts and quick thinking and generate with rage. 

I would prefer something more active that is based on head shots and restore a small amount of hp(like 2-4 per head shot) or gives like 1% power strength for 10s(stackable till like 15-20%) because I think that mechanics like arcane rage and victory are great since they give you something you can do actively as a player to improve your damage output or survivability.

On 10.5.2017 at 5:15 AM, Cornelius.EE said:

Consider an Akstiletto Prime modded this way: https://goo.gl/WdoyBj and an Ember running with a conservative +25% power strength (we are using Transient Fortitude + Intensify + Overextended). Before Accelerant and assuming we are targeting cloned flesh (armor has been stripped) the Akstiletto does an average of 4707 damage per shot. Adding a x312.5% buff to fire damage results in 8068 total damage, which is a +71.4% increase (I am not including the calculation to save space, but if you'd like to see the details or think I made a mistake, please PM me and I can share my spreadsheet). This is not too far behind the +100% damage bonus from Molecular Prime.

In my view, the neat thing about Accelerant is that its effectiveness as either a CC or a damage amp ability depends on your warframe build, weapon, and weapon build. For instance, we could swap out Transient Fortitude and Intensify for Blind Rage and Primed Continuity. This would result in an increase in power strength (and damage boost from Accelerant) while keeping the efficiency of World on Fire in the same ballpark. However, this significantly increases the energy cost of Accelerant making it impractical to use it for spam CC while WoF is active. One could also get rid of Overextended to get more damage but in a smaller radius (again usefulness for CC is reduced). In general, this is excellent design from the devs: a useful ability with very simple mechanics, two main functions, and interaction with both warframe and weapon builds.

It is a bit stronger then Mprime, roar or similar 100% damage buff abilities, however only if you combine it with a weapon modded around fire damage stacking and if you use negative duration and limited range to archive a high power strength. It also happens to be stronger on status modded weapons compared to the normal +100% damage buffs, because the damage loss of using 60% over 90% damage mods is close to zero given that all the scaling is focused on just one element, that you can stack on a lot of status modded weapons.

If I could change something, I would add 5-10% base status chance(scalable with power strength) to all weapons while accelerant is in effect This does 2 things.

1. It moves a part of what can give a frame like Ember actually quite good scalability at higher levels into the frame itself instead being the result of a massive gear and mod grind, that also can provide it, but makes it unattainable by most players.

2. It makes Ember more resistant to the way DEs does rebalance status weapons like the boar prime. This is mostly because accelerant modding mostly results in binary state on many status weapons, where they can work great or are just weak options on Ember, what is not present on normal damage buffing frames. There are also no acranes or mods that can provide that ability currently, different to crit and other means of scaling, where they are present.

On 10.5.2017 at 5:15 AM, Cornelius.EE said:

Over the past year or so, several radial abilities have become limited to line of sight only. Such a change might not be unreasonable for Accelerant. To the devs: if you do decide to nerf Accelerant to line of sight only, please consider giving it a commensurate buff elsewhere. For example, consider the following mechanic (either as part of the ability or as an augment):

An enemy affected by Accelerant that suffers a heat proc has a chance to ignite other enemies within 5m (limited by LoS) if they are also affected by Accelerant. Chance to ignite is affected by power strength. Required distance from ignited target is not affected by power range.

Augment: The current augment is decent, but given that Ember is so starved when it comes to mod slots, I never use it. If Accelerant is changed to be LoS limited but the mechanic proposed above is considered too OP to include in the base ability, please consider implementing it as an augment instead of Flash Accelerant.

Abilities like radial blind or prism got LoS because you could keep the hole map perma stunned with it for a much longer time then the quick CC by the blind mechanic(similar as you can with Frost). What you do with accelerant you can do with Crush or Miasma as well, with the difference that you are not locked into a cast animation, leading to a more fluid game play on Ember. Given that Ember is for the most part a frame that got much more consistent CC then other damage frames and much more damage then CC frames with the issues how LoS works in Warframe and a frame that got different to frames like Mirage or Excalibur very limited survivability without it DE most likely do allow it on purpose on Ember.

The augment is in my own opinion great since the change that adds the effect to Ember as well, with only one flaw. The flaw would be that the fire it provides combines with other elements, instead of being treated as stand alone damage. It would be much better if it works like Toxic lash, what allows to mod corrosive on a melee weapon and still add toxic for other mechanics to work on it. This would be otherwise only possible on a corrosive base damage weapon for Saryn(we only got 2 in the hole game), similar as it works on Ember with radiation/fire what is very powerful but limited to only a hand full of weapons in the game for Ember. While it is a damage loss on weapons fully build around accelerant, it would allow Ember to not turn toxic into gas vs Corpus(that is probably unwanted by most players) while providing the fire damage that makes accelerant useful to any player in your team, independent on how they modded her weapon what is one of the reasons why Ember is not really perceived as team buffing damage frame different to nova or saryn.

Even solo it can be a damage gain on weapons that are to limited in mod space for more then one 60% fire damage mod(like the prisma grakata) or a lot of melee weapons, where mod space is incredible short for a frame like Ember.

It is what a augment should be in my opinion, a choice what can be better or worse then other options in that slot, depending on the situation you use it in.

As for fire blast, it should have the hole ring on fire with the WoF status chance to inflict a fire proc. This would make it much better when it comes to defend stuff against melee units and would allow to slow enemy units down at specific points, similar as frost can, what is very useful.

As for WoF I agree that it should be reduced in damage for lower levels while buffed in status chance a bit to be less depended on high power to work as reliable CC tool at higher levels.

On 10.5.2017 at 2:07 PM, Ordosan said:

would be nice for some tweaks. mostly to have it priortize things closest to you.  but alot of people have tackled this. everything from turning it into a fire cloak or aoe burst up to having it spawn a field of fire. Its my least cared for ability so i wont speak much on this ability exactly (heck until her update i never even USED world on fire)

 It already does this, kind of. While the mechanic is not flawless, it is much better then back in the days when it did not, where it did hit something random that might most likely not be the charger that is next to you and will kill you in a single hit at higher levels.

On 13.5.2017 at 3:02 AM, 3allvalve said:

Ember is one amazing frame. But before you start thinking nerf. Let me tell you why she is SO limited. I would love to call her my favorite, but as most will find, she is quite the lower level frame. Get up in the mids and other frames start looking so much better. As it should be right? But advanced missions are simply out if her league. That being said, shes a great little low-level farmer and I love her, so please, no more de-buffs for her, okay?

AOE damage falloff is the same as on other frames. The reason why most people have such a hard one for WoF is because this is all they use and all the know about Ember. Maybe also a issue that DE decided to throw unreasonable high EHP or survivability on everything in the past instead of fixing her bad design of enemy scaling damage, that makes little to no sense compared to the actual HP pools of most frames at higher levels, reducing the game to the god mode, cheese and map CC fest we unfortunately play today instead of a interesting space ninja shooter.

There is on a performance level little difference between Ember and other damage frames at high levels(if you exclude the broken things) and there should be none, given that Ember is a damage frame just like them, while being a bit more squishy as a trade-off for having the better CC and that you can get more punch out of specific status weapons.

 

[Heat damage should have a scaling AOE effect]

The real reason why I talk about a 2 year old niece and ice cream in the combination with math is that I did think that would make it understandable, because the person can not understand math, because she is only 2 years old. However she can do a mathematical task, similar to the one you learn in math class at school while you are technically not learning anything because what you learn is not the the thing you should learn about math. However I am wrong, because you do not understand me. You are actually incapable to grasp the little mental experiment to imagine momentum or gravity in physics class without math, since it would literally remove your ability to tell what it really does, while you actually should try to think how it would be if you remove math form that to experience what math actually does and is supposed to do.

How exactly can it be a insult to tell somebody that something in his opinion mathematical correct is wrong? That is how math works to begin with, define something right or get proven wrong, this is intended to be in it because otherwise it would not be self correcting, what would be a massive flaw in the design what we try to avoid even if it can take centuries till somebody realizes somebody else was wrong. If he does think he is right why not demand a nobel price(this is like all things in her ironic, because math does not have a nobel price, because nobel did not value math as a scientific field enught to deserve one) for that, because if he is right he will actually get one, not because he proved that he is right to me, but mathematically correctly, while I can see why he is not in a second or two. He will obviously never do that, because he knows he is wrong.

I give up, please continue to make warframe a better place for fire damage, because it is such a inferior status element that it clearly needs a buff, even when people that use fire damage every day might disagree, what I actually do. I also like the the touch of people are not understanding me, because they actually do understand me, even if my English is far from perfect if they are interested in my opinion. Btw I can actually get a signal out of the noise what would be somebody from china that communicates in bad English, different to a native speaker that gets nothing out of it. Does this make me logical the person that understands English better than you? Actually no, it does not, it just means that you are incapable of understanding why languages are different and why I can understand you while you can not understand me, what is to a big part probably my fault because I can not speak perfect English, however different to you I can understand people that also do have issues with non perfect English actually very well and do not feel the need to point that out, instead I just ask if something is unclear to me.

[Heat damage should have a scaling AOE effect]

There is no TLDR, the reason I typed it out is that you should learn something, even if I do not believe you will.

The TLDR would be you are incredible stupid compared to somebody like me what is not incredible smart in the grand scheme of things, what you can actually check with math, a piece of paper, a book about normal divination and just yourself in a quiet room for 60 minutes. If you manage to come to any other result, grab your phone and call the people that hand out the nobel price because you just proven math wrong.

[Heat damage should have a scaling AOE effect]

On 6.5.2017 at 7:31 PM, Xekrin said:

Vaykor Hek and Rakta Cernos can one shot a Lv100 with pretty much any damage combo, they are crit weapons.  Heat has zero to do with it.  Take an atomos into a Lv100 mission without ember to multiply its damage 5x over and let me know how well you do.

Everything you wrote below what I quoted made absolutely zero sense.  Your walls of text are very confusing and do not even follow linear thought patterns much less contribute to any kind of valid discussion on this topic.

I'm very happy your professor could to math in his head, though.  Also go steve jobs! great guy!  or whatever he had to do with this.

So would it not imply that heat is a good as other damage types on this weapons? I actually always use corrosive/heat on my vaykor hek.  As I told you on the last page both Atamos and Ignis are not designed for high levels, given that they are more AOE weapons without much status.

Where did you struggle?

Is it me pointing out that allmagnus1 is wrong if he thinks what he does with math produces a bell curve and would be useful in a analysis on a normal distribution? I do not expect you to understand why the 5 points I mentioned will make this impossible, because this requires a bit of practical experience with what a bell curve implies mathematically(what you will acquired if you work with them a bit, because it saves a ton of time). However it would be very easy to check my conclusion by creating some user numbers, remove all the 4 other cases and check each one if you can create a bell curve with it. If one would not produce the bell curve, non will, that's the beauty of math because you can use the rule of elimination.

Is it that I actually point out some things about where and why we actually use certain mathematical models in real life, to help us to understand problems better? I think it is fairly important to point that out, given that he probably never done that, the reason why he does not understand it.

Is it that hard to grasp the basic concept of why we get told to draw lines and run useless calculations to learn math has nothing to do with the actual thing and it is not what you actually should learn? I can take 2 apples and my 2 year old niece will notice if I put one next to the other that this is 1+1 if I explain it to her, if I remove that apple and explain her that this is 2-1 what results in 1 she will understand it, because she can see something was added or is missing, while not knowing that she just learned that we can measure the presence or the lack of something, even if we don't have apples and can see it. I now tell her to get 2 ice creams from a ice cream truck, I give her 5€ and she will know that one ice cream is not enught, because it is less then 2, what is sufficient for a 2 year old girl to do the task at hand. However I told her nothing about math. Because math is the tool that lets you prove that 1+1 is 2, so you do not need to get told it is 2, you can figure it out on your own and our only tool with what our fairly limited brain can decide in complex things what is right or wrong, because we can mathematically prove, measure and test if we are right or wrong, while we can do nothing like this if we can not mathematically explain it. The reason why we explain physics with math and not math with physics is because we know math very well, we created it, it is self defining(what means you can prove or disprove everything in math with math itself, what no other scientific field allows), allowing us to define models build with math as long as they are proven correct with it and applying math to it again to come to our conclusion, universal, self correcting(because there are a ton of mathematicians that want to do something great in life, that only comes from proving somebody important wrong or coming up with something nobody figured out before you) and a brilliant language to describe what we do not understand to actually kind of understand it, while we would know nothing at all about physics if you could not use math to explain it. Take a simple thing like gravity and momentum, how would you explain it without math. You know that you stick to the ground while other things can fly, however they always come to the ground at one point. Whey do we feel pain when we run to fast, when we crash into something, when we fall from a to high elevation? However you can not describe it, you can not measure it, you can not say something is lethal before you tried it out and did in fact kill you and you can't actually understand it. However once you apply math to it you can understand it, this is not because math makes everything simple but because a mathematician actually decided to check out how it actually works with a mathematical model, if that fails he will try the next and so on till he can prove that something works exactly like he predicted with math, because he can prove that it works every time like that with math just as he intended, not because he defined how gravity has to work for math but because he did analyse it with math till he figured out how it works mathematically.

Is it shotgun status calculation? A machine will not do what you did intend it should do if you do not define precisely what it should do. What will happen if you not do this are debug errors(that should not exist according to my engineering professor, because you did type before you did think every single formula, every single case, every single problem to the end before you strike the first key on your keyboard what makes you a terrible programmer in his eyes) or bugs that are often not fixed because they do not create serve issues in the code during runtime, such as applying 100% status chance to all pellets instead of just one, given that status shotguns are very rare and it is not a game breaking bug(it actually gives the weapon purpose that they would not have without it) it is very likely DE knows that and just decided to let it in the game.

You are also correct that it has nothing to do with the topic and I could probably also replaced the answer with just scratching my head, given that the answer I give might be to confusing. The last thing is actually a metaphor, that is probably hard to get for people that do not know what Turing did(providing a theoretical base work purely mathematically how a universal calculating machine should work), what Jobs did(that was not redesigning the machine, he just proved that everybody was wrong when designing the interface when confronted with the task of how to sell everybody that does not buy a pc because he can not understand and use one, a pc that he can use and wants to buy) and why that means that a 2 year old girl can actually do something with a universal calculating machine today while even the smartest mathematician on the planet would have issues to redefine it better then the guy that invented it 80 years ago with math. Something that is very intimidating if you know how complex it actually is on the mathematical level that did lead to his invention as well as how much time it takes to understand if you have to program it at the base level, where you actually need to know how it works inside out and where it can only understand math, logic and machine code.

The reason I mention that is that nobody managed to explain to me understandable in middle school what we should do with math, because nobody actually could tell you that.

[Heat damage should have a scaling AOE effect]

You one shot most stuff at L100 with a pure heat modded vhek or rankta cernos with Ember and just use corrosive or viral in combination with heat on other frames where it does the same.

Nobody uses the boar prime because people are not able to figure out. Where people demand damage and crit buffs for the boar prime and you are looked as some kind of strange person when you say that it just needs 10% more base status. Same deal with the forum posts that over and over point out the lack of crit and that it is still absolute useless, it shreds max level stuff in the similcarium(also bombards and heavy gunners) and does not show any kill speed fatigue up to L140 solo with Ember(75 ish minutes) in survival(at what point you just get one shot to much to reliable play further).

A bell curve is used to describe normal distribution or as tool to test how normal the distribution for your actual data is. Every person falls within the curve, since it is a simply a line drawn over all measurable points what you use as input data, what you mean is how far it deviates from the median, and things are no edge cases, they mathematically just show a higher divination then other values in your curve and are removed in some cases in statistic since they do not matter enught like people that do not drive a car when you want to analyse how different ages of costumers chose between the cars you make(what you imply should be done with my opinion) or included if you actually use it for stuff like quality control since it is the data you are interested in. Since you only have dps, you would have to normalize status scaling to fit into the graph, what you can not given that status scaling is non linear(it scales stronger the higher you go with stuff like corrosive, since armor is a multiplying modifier to health) while dps is. What you would actually see is something like x² since you move the high damage weapons that are also more used to the upper right while leaving little used weapons that universal all do lower damage close to 0,0. The same function would spike a lot if you have high damage weapons that nobody uses(like the boar prime putting them close to 0 on y while very far off the centre on x) or having weapon that everybody uses and do very low damage(like the all the new players that will always use the starter weapons since they are given to them at the beginning of the game) where your points would be very high on the y axis while very low on x at the same time. The only thing you would see on your graph is incredible noise to a point where it lets you not come to a reasonable conclusion since you can not make a function out of that or a simple x² given that the more damage a weapon does the more more likely it is that more people use it. Using normal distribution to analyse how rivens affect weapon choice or my opinion should be ignored does not make any sense in a mathematical function like you defined it since the data would not be a normal distribution.

As a little tip, using the X axis for something that you determinate as better defeats the hole purpose of doing a analysis about normal distribution in your data, since your most common case should be somewhere around zero, where your function would terminate since there is no negative dps and therefore no players that use them.

Why you try to insulting me? Most people are not good at visual math, there is no reason to feel insulted or bad about it because this is expected and normal. The ability to draw a line in your mind instead of a piece of paper is not what you are supposed to learn in math class, this is why you are given a tool that does that for you, similar as it does the basic steps in the calculation, same as my professor did not use a calculator at all, because he could literally do complex math as easy as you do 1+1 without one.

The thing you are supposed to learn about normal distribution in applied IT for example is simply that your circuit might very likely not produce the intended result in a statistical measurable and mathematical clearly provable amount of steps, this might be because it can not switch between high and low as quick as the manufacturer did intend, it might mean that it will react different at different levels of temperature or that you simply did program it wrong. We do not take a few million steps per second, grab a piece of paper, draw a curve and look at this. This is not what you are supposed to learn when a teacher introduces you to the concept of normal distribution, it is simply a abstract model to look at things and analyse how common things in your data are that helps you to find and solve a problem that should not exist, yet is very common in the real world.

Math is not about drawing lines in your head, with your calculator or on a paper, it is about concepts how to analyse and solve problems in a very abstract way(to a point where even your problem can be abstract and not even exist in the real world). The number you put into a formula instead of x is not relevant if you look at x², what is relevant is to understand that there is a common pattern with the exception of 0 and 1 that any number you use will follow and a defined answer to what the result is, where it again does not matter if this is a number, something impossible in real life or simply a error as a machine would tell you if you trigger a memory overflow with it.

The Wiki page is wrong same as the guy that did most likely code the status chance for pellet mechanics did forget to add a exception for 100%. Something that I see nearly every day.

Play zoomed in for a hour non stop with a boar prime, just saying.

Are you literally incapable to realize 2+1 is something different the 2-1 and you are the most awesome person on the planet by being able to do with a 3 what others do with a 1?

In my opinion you should visit your math teacher and demand from him to do a better job, does not matter where you are in life, because learning math without a practical application attached to it is not useful for most people. I will never be capable to come up with a concept like a turing machine on my own, that Turing basically created to prove that the Entscheidungsproblem is not solvable by a machine, so he defined a rule set and mechanism of a machine in his mind that can mathematically solve everything, a machine can solve and did prove mathematical that the Entscheidungsproblem is not solvable by any machine, because it was not solvable by his machine, that could solve every mathematical thing a machine can process, while creating the base line concept of a universal calculating machine, what could calculate everything because you can change the code you use while the hardware stays always the same, while similar machines of his time could only do one calculation, the one they where build for and could not mathematical prove this. However I can understand the concept of a turing machine, because Turing managed to break down a unreal complex and abstract mathematical task that we could not come up with, that was considered plain impossible to do at his time down to something very basic that we as normal people actually can understand and use. Similar as a guy named Steve Jobs managed to make my 2 years old niece capable of using her little fingers to play with a Ipad, a computer, Turing did the same with people that you would consider as geniuses by telling them how one of the most important machines in our life should work without even building it.