A Small Idea for Nezha's 2

[xKarasume]

Hey all, I just wanted to come forward with my opinion on the Nezha rework and one change that I think would benefit it better.

Currently, Nezha lost a lot of his former tankiness and gained a lot of utility, namely on his 2nd ability.  Unfortunately, the 2nd ability doesn't really function properly.  We've lost quite a bit of survivability and seen buffs on an ability that doesn't function well.  While seeing it fixed would be pretty neat, how about another potential "fix" that would add some more synergy to his kit?

Especially due to the nature of bouncing attacks, coverage on your debuff is minimal.  You could charge your chakram, but what if there were more options? 

My suggestion is to make it so that Nezha's 1 can spread the effects of his 2's debuff along its path for its duration, as long as the flames have come in contact with an enemy that has the debuff.

Edit: The effect only spreads if an enemy with the debuff is currently in the flames, and it can only spread to a certain number of enemies (unsure whether or not this should scale with strength).  Debuff can't be refreshed and must drop.

In this way, it wouldn't be possible for Nezha to essentially be a tankier Nova, but the idea would make up for the fact that bouncing weapons are and possibly always will be derpy beyond reason, as this idea was originally intended to.

While it doesn't fix how derpy bouncing weapons are, it does help remedy the issue of applying the buffs to multiple enemies, and it adds some synergy to his kit.

I know posts about his 2 are beaten dead into the ground, but I felt like putting my idea out there since I love the frame.  Let me know what you guys think.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by xKarasume
Making some tweaks to the idea

[LSG501]

personally I'd rather they fix the 2nd ability so it functions properly all the time....

Mind you your idea is probably more of an idea for augment, although it would be nice if 1 and 4 actually worked together unlike now....

[YUNoJump]

I feel like giving his 1 the ability to spread it will lead to people throwing the 2 at a random enemy and then ignoring it completely for extended periods of time. I've got my 1 duration at 60 seconds right now and it's not even a particularly specialised build, if I only needed to cast 2 once every minute on a single enemy then what's the point of having it at all? 

Fixing the bounce paths so that the ring seamlessly moves to every enemy in the area still seems like easily the best solution to the ability at the moment for me, devoting dev-time to dodging the real issue doesn't feel like a suitable solution to me. If they don't want to do that at all, then the next best thing would be to just remove the "physical projectile" aspect of the ability and just have a visual effect that chains between enemies like Volt's Shock.

[Fishyflakes]

Nezha's 2 is not Nova's 4.

Remember that at least.

[xKarasume]

44 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

personally I'd rather they fix the 2nd ability so it functions properly all the time....

Mind you your idea is probably more of an idea for augment, although it would be nice if 1 and 4 actually worked together unlike now....

 

Same, I'd much rather they fix it too, but that's a problem with all bouncing weapons, and I'm not sure it can really be fixed that easily.  If it were that easy to fix, wouldn't they have done it?  In case it is a complicated issue to fix, I feel like such a bandaid fix would help remedy the 2 feeling underwhelming in spite of its massive buffs.

 

31 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

I feel like giving his 1 the ability to spread it will lead to people throwing the 2 at a random enemy and then ignoring it completely for extended periods of time. I've got my 1 duration at 60 seconds right now and it's not even a particularly specialised build, if I only needed to cast 2 once every minute on a single enemy then what's the point of having it at all? 

Fixing the bounce paths so that the ring seamlessly moves to every enemy in the area still seems like easily the best solution to the ability at the moment for me, devoting dev-time to dodging the real issue doesn't feel like a suitable solution to me. If they don't want to do that at all, then the next best thing would be to just remove the "physical projectile" aspect of the ability and just have a visual effect that chains between enemies like Volt's Shock.

 

Then maybe tweaking the concept is in order.  If it were as simple as "Fix bouncing weapons" then I'd be all for it.  But fixing bouncing weapons has never been that simple.  My suggestion is to work around the possibility that fixing bouncing weapons isn't something that'll happen in a way that'll satisfy everyone.  That's all.

 

20 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

Nezha's 2 is not Nova's 4.

Remember that at least.

It's not, and even with this suggestion, it'll never be.

Granted, this idea is probably bordering a bit too closely on that with how loosely I defined it and how few limits I put on it.  That's not how I envisioned it.  I'll think a bit more on it.

 

 

Edit: I edited the main post to reflect feedback.  Thanks for your responses!

Edited September 20, 2018 by xKarasume

[(PSN)AceMagnus90]

I assume getting the universe ring to move about properly is a engine based issue that might be impossible to eliminate completely.  Pablo worked to make it function better and it still struggles to reach even 70% reliability.  

One hypothesis I've come up with is environmental details.  The ring works quite properly in simulacrum where there are only pillars.  In just about every other scenario, it fails.  Maybe crates, lockers, boxes, walls, etc. are the cause for this... not that it really matters.  DE will either fix it or they won't; at this point, Nezha Deluxe is making a killing and it might not be a big enough deal to focus further dev time on him. 

[Darkuhn]

I mostly use the charged version of the Chakram and using the Augment for more Orbs/Damage on Multihits. This works quite well and in 9/10 Throws the Chakram goes where I want it to go.

The one time it dose not go where I want it to go is mostly me standing to close to Objects/Walls.

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Fishyflakes:

Nezha's 2 is not Nova's 4.

Remember that at least.

and this 🙂

[xKarasume]

There could be a hint of bias with this, but I absolutely abhor any sort of charged weaponry (I dunno, there could be some bias, maybe).  If you were to play with me, you wouldn't see me using anything where I'd have to hold a key before my weapon hits something unless it's a special situation.  I hate charged attacks, and I don't think players should be forced to use them just to make an ability functional.

If the non-charged version of the 2 exists, it should function, or at least have some form of mechanic to make up for it.  The latter is what I made this thread for.

As for the quote, I made edits to the initial post to ensure that even with this idea, Nezha could never replace Nova.  Having his 2 have the same coverage as her 4 was never the intent.  Nezha and Nova are my two most-played frames, and I wouldn't want either one to replace the other.

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)AceMagnus90 said:

I assume getting the universe ring to move about properly is a engine based issue that might be impossible to eliminate completely.  Pablo worked to make it function better and it still struggles to reach even 70% reliability.  

One hypothesis I've come up with is environmental details.  The ring works quite properly in simulacrum where there are only pillars.  In just about every other scenario, it fails.  Maybe crates, lockers, boxes, walls, etc. are the cause for this... not that it really matters.  DE will either fix it or they won't; at this point, Nezha Deluxe is making a killing and it might not be a big enough deal to focus further dev time on him. 

 

Over the years, DE has never really struck me as being so superficial that they'd look at skin sales and think a frame's alright.  If the 2 doesn't get fixed or have any sort of mechanics to compensate for the derpy bouncing, it'd be because they just don't know about it or don't know what to do about it.  That's also why I made this thread.  More attention~

I think they'll do something.

[(PSN)AceMagnus90]

3 hours ago, xKarasume said:

Over the years, DE has never really struck me as being so superficial that they'd look at skin sales and think a frame's alright.  If the 2 doesn't get fixed or have any sort of mechanics to compensate for the derpy bouncing, it'd be because they just don't know about it or don't know what to do about it.  That's also why I made this thread.  More attention~

I think they'll do something.

Well, I didn't intend for it to come across as them being superficial, but I see your point. I think DE are great devs, one of if not the most reasonable game publisher out there(save for a few pricing issues).  I only meant to say that they might not have the resources to devote more time to a frame that just got a juicy rework, considering Warframe has been bone dry with content this summer.  They're working on Venus plains and such now so I know winter will be big but I imagine they want to drop something worthwhile before; all hands on deck might be more important than the frames kits.

Edited September 20, 2018 by (PS4)AceMagnus90

[xKarasume]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)AceMagnus90 said:

Well, I didn't intend for it to come across as them being superficial, but I see your point. I think DE are great devs, one of if not the most reasonable game publisher out there(save for a few pricing issues).  I only meant to say that they might not have the resources to devote more time to a frame that just got a juicy rework, considering Warframe has been bone dry with content this summer.  They're working on Venus plains and such now so I know winter will be big but I imagine they want to drop something worthwhile before; all hands on deck might be more important than the frames kits.

Ah, I get what you mean.  You may be right.  This whole thing with Venus and Fortuna is highly-anticipated.  At the very least, coming up with ideas could be something we could do for them so all they need to do is implement it.  Heck, even making them aware that there should be something to make up for the uncharged 2's derpiness is enough for me.