Suggestions For Helmets And The Switch To Cosmetic Only, And Some Other Stuff.

[Drasiel]

While chassis being purely cosmetic or having seperate levels isn't something that would bother me either way, I feel that you'll just run into the same issues as the helmets did, where you've got people that just want the cosmetic without the stat burden.

[grillv20]

bumping this for more +1's

[KittyDarkling]

So it seems that people like the idea of separating the cosmetic component of the helmets from the functional stat component of helmets, so to slightly change the topic of discussion so far, what are everyone's thoughts on the idea of a cosmetic "chassis" slot.

 

Furthermore, if a "chassis" slot were to be implemented, how would you feel about each chassis leveling up separately? Would you like the "Primes" to be implemented as special customization options as described in the first post, as opposed to treating them as a separate Warframe altogether?

 

    Honestly I would prefer that primes were just a skin. and that the chassis slot was used for purely cosmetic changes. I can understand people not wanting this though. and I feel if this did happen, It they should move whatever stats are higher to the base warframe, or if they don't have the base warframe, then just convert the prime to the "base" warframe however you wouldn't have the base skin options.

 

    Now then I understand some people wouldn't like this.. so then there's the option of keeping the frames separate. but I feel that would be counter productive to this new model. as then you'd have to make the new purely cosmetic skins work for both prime and base warframes. Which isn't terrible but I feel it some what defeats the purpose of having a prime version.

[KomradKickass]

    Honestly I would prefer that primes were just a skin. and that the chassis slot was used for purely cosmetic changes. I can understand people not wanting this though. and I feel if this did happen, It they should move whatever stats are higher to the base warframe, or if they don't have the base warframe, then just convert the prime to the "base" warframe however you wouldn't have the base skin options.

 

    Now then I understand some people wouldn't like this.. so then there's the option of keeping the frames separate. but I feel that would be counter productive to this new model. as then you'd have to make the new purely cosmetic skins work for both prime and base warframes. Which isn't terrible but I feel it some what defeats the purpose of having a prime version.

 

Yeah, I think primes should be implemented as a skin somehow, it just the transition that would be kinda sloppy. This is the primary reason why I suggested that different chassis have their own levels, as it would be the most "painless" transition, as the prime "skin" would just inherit the current prime version levels/formas. Alternatively you could implement the prime levels/stats under the "systems" category, but then you would run into the following problem (assuming full implementation of the other suggestions): (assume none of these are forma'd)

 

Default system = Default stats

Alternate system = +5% speed, -5% shields

Prime system = Default system stats with an additional polarity slot

 

In this there would be no way to use the prime system (for the extra polarity slot) in addition to the alternate system(for the speed boost).

 

I do kind of like your idea of combining them, as I think it would be kinda messy initially, but end up much better. I do think it would be an issue in determining which warframe is the "higher" level, to decide which stats to keep, as some people could have forma'd the vanilla frame and the prime version differently (but to the same extent), to be set up with different abilities (one for offense, one for defense).

 

Also, Im gonna try to make a quick mock-up of the selection system using MS-Paint or something.

[KomradKickass]

Ok, added a quick UI sketch of the customization system, to supplement the TLDR version laid out by KittyDarkling.

 

I made the Black Box too big though, and I could move the whole thing down/in a bit (for those using a more square aspect ratio), the real-estate freed up by deleting the existing window in (noted by red "X") could be used for something else. Possibly to customize sentinel, or to "Save" certain loadouts (skins+color options) for quick switch.

 

[KittyDarkling]

Yeah, I think primes should be implemented as a skin somehow, it just the transition that would be kinda sloppy. This is the primary reason why I suggested that different chassis have their own levels, as it would be the most "painless" transition, as the prime "skin" would just inherit the current prime version levels/formas. Alternatively you could implement the prime levels/stats under the "systems" category, but then you would run into the following problem (assuming full implementation of the other suggestions): (assume none of these are forma'd)

 

Default system = Default stats

Alternate system = +5% speed, -5% shields

Prime system = Default system stats with an additional polarity slot

 

In this there would be no way to use the prime system (for the extra polarity slot) in addition to the alternate system(for the speed boost).

 

I do kind of like your idea of combining them, as I think it would be kinda messy initially, but end up much better. I do think it would be an issue in determining which warframe is the "higher" level, to decide which stats to keep, as some people could have forma'd the vanilla frame and the prime version differently (but to the same extent), to be set up with different abilities (one for offense, one for defense).

 

Also, Im gonna try to make a quick mock-up of the selection system using MS-Paint or something.

 

    I really think ripping the band-aid off like i said would be the best way to go.. you're right it would be a slightly messy transaction, but once it was done i feel this would make any future issues null and void. Maybe.... what would be easier is if they just said "okay this is beta and we need to reset your primes to make the game a better game" and in doing so switch over to this system. but then, give out "special" forma that wont cause a level reset. 2 per primes they took from you.

 

    This would make it so the system is implemented cleanly. You'd get a second chance to set up your frame, and they would have a profitable, efficient, and more customizable Warframe setup

 

    I'm sure some people will complain and say they had their frames maxed out and fully polarized, and that they feel this change over would be unfair. To this I can only say, Im really sorry, but this is a beta. There was a bad system in place and it needed fixing. If they did have their frames fully polarized then they are likely to be quite high level and hopefully wont mind. They would still have the special forma to recap their losses, maybe even act as a gift if they didn't have them so formaed. But I really feel this is a necessary step forward.

[KittyDarkling]

Ok, added a quick UI sketch of the customization system, to supplement the TLDR version laid out by KittyDarkling.

 

I made the Black Box too big though, and I could move the whole thing down/in a bit (for those using a more square aspect ratio), the real-estate freed up by deleting the existing window in (noted by red "X") could be used for something else. Possibly to customize sentinel, or to "Save" certain loadouts (skins+color options) for quick switch.

 

    TO PHOTOSHOP!!!!

[KomradKickass]

    I really think ripping the band-aid off like i said would be the best way to go.. you're right it would be a slightly messy transaction, but once it was done i feel this would make any future issues null and void. Maybe.... what would be easier is if they just said "okay this is beta and we need to reset your primes to make the game a better game" and in doing so switch over to this system. but then, give out "special" forma that wont cause a level reset. 2 per primes they took from you.

 

    This would make it so the system is implemented cleanly. You'd get a second chance to set up your frame, and they would have a profitable, efficient, and more customizable Warframe setup

 

    I'm sure some people will complain and say they had their frames maxed out and fully polarized, and that they feel this change over would be unfair. To this I can only say, Im really sorry, but this is a beta. There was a bad system in place and it needed fixing. If they did have their frames fully polarized then they are likely to be quite high level and hopefully wont mind. They would still have the special forma to recap their losses, maybe even act as a gift if they didn't have them so formaed. But I really feel this is a necessary step forward.

 

Out of curiosity, why 2 "special formas" per prime (assuming they were not forma'd to begin with), as I though each prime only had 1 more polarity than the vanilla frame, or is the second one just to be nice? 

 

Also, yeah, photoshop would be awesome (no PS skills here).

 

C'mon DE, like all the work but coding is almost done for you, (If i had access to the source I would even try my hand at that, although certainly above my level).

 

We need to get this topic RED HOT!

[KomradKickass]

    I really think ripping the band-aid off like i said would be the best way to go.. you're right it would be a slightly messy transaction, but once it was done i feel this would make any future issues null and void. Maybe.... what would be easier is if they just said "okay this is beta and we need to reset your primes to make the game a better game" and in doing so switch over to this system. but then, give out "special" forma that wont cause a level reset. 2 per primes they took from you.

 

    This would make it so the system is implemented cleanly. You'd get a second chance to set up your frame, and they would have a profitable, efficient, and more customizable Warframe setup

 

    I'm sure some people will complain and say they had their frames maxed out and fully polarized, and that they feel this change over would be unfair. To this I can only say, Im really sorry, but this is a beta. There was a bad system in place and it needed fixing. If they did have their frames fully polarized then they are likely to be quite high level and hopefully wont mind. They would still have the special forma to recap their losses, maybe even act as a gift if they didn't have them so formaed. But I really feel this is a necessary step forward.

 

I think I thougth of a better solution, Instead of the messy change over, do something like this:

 

Lets use this terminology:

"Frost" = Vanilla Frost (like you would build now)

"Frost Prime" = Frost Prime (like it is now)

"Combined Frost" = A frost after the changeover, who would have access to the customization options of Frost and Frost Prime (assuming you had both)

 

When the change-over happens, if the player had both "Frost" and "Frost Prime" initially, afterwards they would have TWO Combined Frosts, one inheriting the stats/level/forma/potato of Frost, and the other inheriting the stats/level/forma/potato of Frost Prime.

 

Then you are free to keep both, or just sell one and keep the one you like better. TADA! Only real "loss" is if people feel that they have wasted formas/potatoes if they choose to sell one.

[KittyDarkling]

I think I thougth of a better solution, Instead of the messy change over, do something like this:

 

Lets use this terminology:

"Frost" = Vanilla Frost (like you would build now)

"Frost Prime" = Frost Prime (like it is now)

"Combined Frost" = A frost after the changeover, who would have access to the customization options of Frost and Frost Prime (assuming you had both)

 

When the change-over happens, if the player had both "Frost" and "Frost Prime" initially, afterwards they would have TWO Combined Frosts, one inheriting the stats/level/forma/potato of Frost, and the other inheriting the stats/level/forma/potato of Frost Prime.

 

Then you are free to keep both, or just sell one and keep the one you like better. TADA! Only real "loss" is if people feel that they have wasted formas/potatoes if they choose to sell one.

 

   That... THAT'S GENIUS!!!! You glorious bastard that would fix EVERYTHING!!! Now then, stand back while i post my (all be it low resolution, sorry :x) UI consept.

[KittyDarkling]

 

    OK this is how I see it, A new menu on the right for mostly organizational purposes.. There you select what you wanna switch. and on the left,? that menu actually stays because when you click something on the right it shows you all your option on the left. so imagine this is currently what you would see after you clicked "chassis" currently there are no additional chassis for Loki so we see only his default.

 

   But if we select his helmet we'll see the following:

 

 

    See now we see all of our helmet options. This not only shows how these new components would fit, but also how the UI can evolve with the new features to keep the left most menu from becoming crowded.

Edited September 8, 2013 by KittyDarkling

[Lumireaver]

I can make edits too.

 

[KomradKickass]

I can make edits too.

 

 

In all seriousness, thats not a bad alternative layout, this is all just brainstorming, so I cant say I am in a position to say, %100 which layout is better, although your invisible credits make me nervous :P.

 

One question, what criteria do you use to differentiate "Gear" from "Vanity"? And, in your opinion, what belongs in each category?

[Lumireaver]

In all seriousness, thats not a bad alternative layout, this is all just brainstorming, so I cant say I am in a position to say, %100 which layout is better, although your invisible credits make me nervous :P.

 

One question, what criteria do you use to differentiate "Gear" from "Vanity"? And, in your opinion, what belongs in each category?

 

I'd put everything in both tabs, but the stuff in the vanity section wouldn't change your stats whereas the stuff in gear would.

 

I love my stat altering cosmetics, so instead of removing them I'd rather just allow people who don't want them to equip whatever appeals to them in addition to whatever benefits them statistically while I equip whatever I want. The vanity tab could be unlocked with plat, either per account or per Warframe depending on DE's whim.

 

~3.5m credits, about 900 plat Just felt like censoring it for some so as not to detract from the mock-up. :U

[KomradKickass]

I'd put everything in both tabs, but the stuff in the vanity section wouldn't change your stats whereas the stuff in gear would.

 

I love my stat altering cosmetics, so instead of removing them I'd rather just allow people who don't want them to equip whatever appeals to them in addition to whatever benefits them statistically while I equip whatever I want. The vanity tab could be unlocked with plat, either per account or per Warframe depending on DE's whim.

 

~3.5m credits, about 900 plat Just felt like censoring it for some so as not to detract from the mock-up. :U

 

Ahh ok, I get it, its a bit of a different scheme than what is described in the first post. So, in your scheme, "Vanity" is what shows on your character, and "Gear" is what affects your stats (but dosent show), correct?

 

One issue I do have is that Left Shoulder, Right Shoulder, and presumably Scarves are cosmetic ONLY, so their inclusion in both is redundant, because they have no "weight" in the gear category.

 

I think your idea is a great revamp for the cluttered warframe customization menu, and definitely more ordered.

 

But, my original reason for starting this thread dealt with comments made in the livestream, where they expressed interest in making helms cosmetic only, but didnt have a clear solution about what to do with the current stat enhancing helms. To this, my reply was to separate the "stats" from the helm, and place that into a new customization option called "systems". From there, the idea kinda snowballed into an idea of how to also implement possible future skins for the warframe body, as well as a way to combine regular warframe and their primed version into a single frame (by making "prime" a type of customization).

[VegetableBasket]

I had a vision of that UI in the screenshot actually, glad someone else is on the same brainwave. I do think itemizing the stat tradeoff could be very interesting. One thing I'd hate to see is awkward season 1 and 2 helmets with stats and season 3 having none.

[Hogfather]

Wow. Just wow! This makes a lot of sense and fits beautifully with the warframe (the frame itself) idea! I hope that the Dev's seriously consider this for an implementable idea. It's everything they need. A fix to the helmet ability/cosmetic problem with a boost to making money. No QQ over lost enhancements or a really cool helmet with an enhancement you don't like. Everybody wins!

[Krektens]

its a great idea 

but hard to be implemented into the game in the near future

if it got approved .. i think that it will take time to be implemented but hopefully it will eventually 

and @OP good job dude

+1

[Lumireaver]

Ahh ok, I get it, its a bit of a different scheme than what is described in the first post. So, in your scheme, "Vanity" is what shows on your character, and "Gear" is what affects your stats (but dosent show), correct?

 

One issue I do have is that Left Shoulder, Right Shoulder, and presumably Scarves are cosmetic ONLY, so their inclusion in both is redundant, because they have no "weight" in the gear category.

 

I think your idea is a great revamp for the cluttered warframe customization menu, and definitely more ordered.

 

But, my original reason for starting this thread dealt with comments made in the livestream, where they expressed interest in making helms cosmetic only, but didnt have a clear solution about what to do with the current stat enhancing helms. To this, my reply was to separate the "stats" from the helm, and place that into a new customization option called "systems". From there, the idea kinda snowballed into an idea of how to also implement possible future skins for the warframe body, as well as a way to combine regular warframe and their primed version into a single frame (by making "prime" a type of customization).

 

Mostly right. If you don't have a helmet equipped in the Vanity tab, your Gear tab helmet would still display as normal. Basically if you dislike the cosmetic that you're using for a statistical benefit, you're going to want to purchase vanity. 

 

Badges could be moved from the scrollbar section to someplace above the color palette, and I'm kind of really hoping scarves will have stats. If they don't, they'll almost certainly be 100% plat only. Which is kind of uncool, but totally reasonable. (I'll still get mine, but explaining to people that they'll never be able to acquire something for free always sucks. I'd rather DE sell the option to customize your look to your liking over the ability to accessorize at all.)

 

I know, this is another solution to the same problem that doesn't involve retiring helmets or changing mechanics.

[ObsidianStray]

My friends and I agreed to roughly the same idea last night as we talked while farming. Helms should be cosmetic; stats should be tuning. However, I disagree a bit on the primes; they should be purely cosmetic. When Mag Prime comes out, what about all the time and taters and forma someone has put into their existing Mag? You have to choose to get rid of all that just to get a new skin, which is dumb. Prime frames would be awesome as skins only, since they're basically identical anyway. Or at least have the option to fuse your old suit with your new one or something. Just don't make players choose between looks and stats.

[KittyDarkling]

Please make the following adjustment to the original post please? x3

 

Basically I injected your ingenious break through. people need to see it front and center!

 

Soo, I watched the livestream, and was throwing some ideas around in my head at dinner, and I think I have a decent suggestion for dealing with the possible conversion of helmets to cosmetic items, as well as another idea or two that are somewhat related.

 

Suggestion 1:

Separate the "stat modding" part of the helm, and place it in a separate category, (called "Warframe tune/system/mod/something") "System", and allow that to be chosen independently from the helm, which is now cosmetic only.

 

By doing this, those that like the stat effects of the helms can contune to use them, but choose a different helm.

 

As another point of consideration important to the developers, by splitting the current helms into two distinct "items", you now have 2X the things to sell for plat, which could translate to increases revenue (hopefully enough to at least pay the time needed to code this change in).

 

Suggestion 2 (small one):

If the above in implemented, you could name the newly formed stat-enhancing item to "System", which make sense, to me, because the foundry has taught me that a warframe is made up of 3 primary parts, helm,chassis,system, and system seems like the one which would be non-cosmetic in nature.

 

Suggestion 3:

Now that the helm and system parts are taken care of, time to move onto the chassis. In a similar vain to the helmet idea, the option to change the "chassis" part of the frame opens up the possibility of warframe "skins" to be neatly implemented. I personally think some warframe skins are needed, as there exists warframes such as excalibur, whose design is somewhat bland compared to the more recently released frames, but whose design is also iconic, so you would not want to completely re-skin him, removing the iconic-classic design.

 

Also: More skins = more items for sale = increased platinum sales.

 

Suggestion 3.5: The ability to choose between warframe "skins" also lends itself to a new way to implement Prime versions of warframe, as you could treat "Frost Prime" as a (difficult to obtain) chassis skin for frost. There is one problem however, in that Frost and Frost Prime are separate warframes, with their own levels, polarities, and formas. To resolve this, you could make it so that each chassis skin levels up independently, including forma levels and polarities. Which can add re-playability and content to warframe, as purchasing a new skin for your favorite frame would now require you to level it up and forma it, if you so desired.

 

Lets use this terminology:

"Frost" = Vanilla Frost (like you would build now)

"Frost Prime" = Frost Prime (like it is now)

"Combined Frost" = A frost after the changeover, who would have access to the customization options of Frost and Frost Prime (assuming you had both)

 

When the change-over happens, if the player had both "Frost" and "Frost Prime" initially, afterwards they would have TWO Combined Frosts, one inheriting the stats/level/forma/potato of Frost, and the other inheriting the stats/level/forma/potato of Frost Prime.

 

Then you are free to keep both, or just sell one and keep the one you like better. TADA! Only real "loss" is if people feel that they have wasted formas/potatoes if they choose to sell one.

 

There ya go, those are my ideas, comments? feedback? YAY? NAY?

 

EDIT: TLDR version simplification by KittyDarkling

 

If I may, I'd like to take a crack at simplifying his post. Warframes currently have a


- Helmet slot
- Right shoulder slot
- Left shoulder slot
- Animation slot


His Idea is to expand to this:

- Helmet slot (Changes head aesthetics)
- System slot (Stat tweak)
- Chassis slot (Changes body aesthetics)
- Right shoulder slot
- Left shoulder slot
- Animation slot

 

Edit 2.5: Did a superquick MSPaint of the UI described above, ignore the fact that I made the black box too big.

THEN KittyDarkling did a much better mock-up using Photoshop, so I will edit and show that one instead. This would be what you see if you click on the "helmet" slot on the right

Edited September 8, 2013 by KittyDarkling

[KomradKickass]

Please make the following adjustment to the original post please? x3

 

Basically I injected your ingenious break through. people need to see it front and center!

Done.

[gell]

I was coming to post a thread, but I'll just agree with Lumireaver.

 

Vanity slots is all we need. Also, I do like the OP's mock up of separating the UI out to multiple slots, since the skins box is already starting to fill up fast.

 

Other games have done this, and it helps solve all the issues with the helms having stats. Others have brought up that separating stats means less sales, and that can also be true, so leaving stats on the helm, but making a vanity/costume slot is the answer. A recent example is Spiral Knights, although many games have done it.

 

It's the best of both worlds, and the only problem I see with vanity slots is that if we ever care for readability. Currently, when I see a Rhino with Vanguard helm, I can tell he's faster than normal. Of course, with the stat differences being relatively small, it may never matter, not even in PvP, should that ever become a larger component of Warframe.

 

Vanity slots FTW!

[BlueNuke95]

Now only if we could name our frames like it was our own pokemon 

[a-Arcadia]

bumps