Nyx 9.8: Feedback Thread

[TaTooKa]

About Absorb:

I'd like it to be more useful. Yesterday I tried it, used it in the middle of 10+ level 30~ corpus with maximum duration (solo run so all of them were shooting at me) and some of them didn't die. Its damage should be a little bit higher. Maybe instead of adding a fixed base damage make it so it multiplies (say x3, x4) damage recieved ? 

 

But wait, Nyx is not a damage dealer, she is more of a utility warframe (and I love that). Ok, maybe Absorb doesn't do much damage to middle enemies and up. But a knockdown or stagger on all units in range sounds very useful. It turns Absorb into a utility ability (a very useful one depending on the situation).

 

 

Another +1 to this. Also what I would like to see: reactivating Absorb could detonate it prematurely for lower damage.

 

That's an excellent idea, if Absorb has some sort of CC and you can interrupt it at will it would be super effective !

[dragonslayer667]

absorb still needs to hit through walls and either add some invuln time at the end or some kind of ragdoll or something using it just gets us killed

[IHWIP]

1) Mind Control should be allowed to stack. As long as its duration is in effect you should be able to keep charming mobs until you have a legion. There should be more obvious animations too so that your friends know the mob is not a real enemy.

2) Psychic Bolts are useless. Suggestion: Change it to Psychic Blast. The blast deals a stagger and set amount of armor ignoring damage to a single mob within range. Maybe even a radial effect against all mobs for set damage. Like a Sonic Boom but only with armor ignoring damage.

 

4) Absorb is kind of broken. Here is my idea: Change it to "Redirect" and make it so that she has a set time of immobility and invulnerability that pumps out damage dealt in the radius of effect the second it normally would be absorbed + a tick based DOT effect similar to Soundquake. Then at the end a psionic blast that deals a final tick with a staggering effect as well. It could be a spectacular light show and be useful at the same time.

[Neruell]

Why not make absorb really do what it suppose to do? Absorb damage and after, return the whole damage to enemies. I can't believe that after using this ability and meditating for 15 seconds under constant fire of multiple enemies with 100+ level I still can't even make a scratch to the enemies after explosion. If normally enemy does around 100 damage per shot at that level, and shooting for example 5 shots per second for 15 seconds I would have to return 7500 damage back and I don't even count + base damage. Also adding the effect that if the target is not killed by that crazy damage it will be knocked down. It also depends on how and when you use the skill.

 

Also why can her damage be blocked by obstacles? A frame dealing kind of "mental" damage should go instantly into the mind of enemies and not being blocked by a box.

[TunaMayo]

Why not make absorb really do what it suppose to do? Absorb damage and after, return the whole damage to enemies. I can't believe that after using this ability and meditating for 15 seconds under constant fire of multiple enemies with 100+ level I still can't even make a scratch to the enemies after explosion. If normally enemy does around 100 damage per shot at that level, and shooting for example 5 shots per second for 15 seconds I would have to return 7500 damage back and I don't even count + base damage. Also adding the effect that if the target is not killed by that crazy damage it will be knocked down. It also depends on how and when you use the skill.

 

Also why can her damage be blocked by obstacles? A frame dealing kind of "mental" damage should go instantly into the mind of enemies and not being blocked by a box.

 

The Line of Sight requisite on Absorb and Psychic bolts both sucks and makes no sense.

 

Also, despite getting an aggro buff, mobs still run straight past me when using Absorb in order to get to the objective. Can't it get the same aggro as the objectives at least?!

[Kamal965]

Instead of assuming that, as Steve said in the livestream, making Psychic Bolts go faster makes it more "psychic," they should make it a proper psychic ability. Make through walls and objects to seek targets, while also being properly aimable.. Compare it to Ash's Shuriken right now: his Shuriken can be properly aimed; does 500 damage and throws an extra shuriken at the max rank; deals double damage on headshots; ignores armor and is x3 effective against Infested.

 

Psychic Bolts can be barely aimed, even now, as it seems to go wondering off in random directions even if I'm all up in the enemy's grill; shoots out 6 bolts that deals 150 damage per bolt, for a total of 900 damage, can't be aimed properly to even get headshots; ignores armor and is x3 effective against Infested.

 

It's sorely lacking right now. Again, make it go through objects and let us aim the thing properly.

 

After more testing, almost all of the above is redacted. All I maintain is that it needs a damage buff and for it to go through objects. It seemed dead useful in the testing field I did (Gaia/Lith defense map), as the place was wide open. However, it isn't very practical anywhere else.

 

As for Absorb... just look at the posts before me.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Kamal965

[JBS_1]

Devs: if you want Psychic Bolts to be used it needs to be more attractive than just a damage dealer.  Even as the serrated blade type it still won't be as good as more well ranked player's main weapon.  I need some reason to push 2 instead of clicking a couple times.  As a psycic attack, I think you might see people use it if hit targets do the "ouch my head" animation used on chaos (auto head-shot would also be attractive, but that's just an increased damage thing and not really added utility).  And, to help deal with the terrible tracking a meter worth of puncture would be nice.

 

Other people have already done a good job explaining why Absorb is still deeply flawed.  It still needs a huge overhaul or needs to be scrapped all together (the ability has never felt "psycic" to me anyways).

[Hazadin]

Chaos OP put enemy limit and rebalance with her other skills make better Absorb and Psychic Bolts.

[EirikAura]

Chaos is fine as is, the cooldown means it's already limited. I can stomp 3 times in a row if I want, I can cast chaos twice a minute. Rhino stomps, things die, Nyx casts chaos, you still have to kill them. Rhino gets huge exp, Nyx gets a fraction.

 

Absorb (needs new name). Give it inherent piercing and AI - it's mental, armour should have no effect nor should cover. Casting anim should last no longer than 3 seconds and sends out a mental shockwave that kills low-level, damages and ragdolls mid-level and damages and stuns high level. THAT would be worth slotting, Absorb isn't.  Call it Psychic Shriek, and give it some terror aspects ie she convinces the enemies to run away instead of ragdoll/stun for a short duration, and it would be excellent. 

 

Yes, it's similar to Terror Totem but that is a deployable, this would be a one-time effect. If repeated, have mobs that were made to flee before resist it

[TuxPenguino]

AGRO..... I think this is the only thing that would fix the NYX.   

 

 

I will be on kiste and sit in the path of enemies and they just run past me never agro'ing dmg!  Thus the frustration where i wish i could agro to keep the heat off my squad and use the dmg to inflict on enemies. Thus the whole point of absorb is to agro and return dmg to those who dealt it to me. 

 

 

ABSORB is waste of time and yet it is the main ultimate for the NYX. Please have all enemies in radius agro to Nyx for the duration of the Absorb. I absolutely cannot stand the uselessness of this frame. I would like to use my style of play with her. Not the same style that everyone uses with freakin chaos.

[TuxPenguino]

The biggest problem with absorb is the transition/animation from the absorb phase to the release phase. During the survival matches last weekend, I have A LOT of moa shooting at me, and when my nyx release those damage, I was killed instantly because the invulnerability ended BEFORE the animation is finished and before the damage is dealt to the enemies.

 

Who would use psychic bolts if it's a chance to hit... A waste of slots, a waste of energy.

Absolutely agree 1000%    I only have so many slots and do not wish to forma her because of the lack of agro in her absorb and the lack of hit % with the bolts.  Efficiency wasted.

[TuxPenguino]

TBH I can't imagine any change they could make to psychic bolts that would cause me to actually use it.

x100 DMG and make it her ULTI???    I think you can imagine using i now?!

[TuxPenguino]

"fail changes

nothing was improved

you need to try to play your game since it looks like you don't even bother"

Well someone is  a Hater!

 

Have you even thought about the Puke you just sprayed on the forum. wow, bro... just wow. I think i need t take a shower after that last upchuck of a comment.  I know you might be pissed... but really. Really!!

[TuxPenguino]

Okay... I have read almost every post and get what everyone is saying. 

 

Bolts to 400dmg. and Absorb dmg through walls and objects. Its good input. But it is missing one factor... and it has been mentioned by a couple. The elevation factor and the Severe dropoff of dmg. To be honest i have a huge amount of hrs logged as an Excali Prime. So i know with all authority i have gotten nearly 8k worth of raw dmg from a single slashdash (Through 10 enemies). If i spam it back and forth through high lvl it is possible for 16k Raw dmg. 400(dmg) x 6(enemies) = 2400dmg total. {Could also be combined into a single enemy if no other targets are available}

 

ABSORB. This is the iconic attack of Nyx. Lets make it worth wild. (let me rephrase that, Make it Effective) Agro is the most obvious buff that need serious increase. I have played a fair amount of time in Nyx and know that Absorb has no noticeable agro at all. I can stand in a swarm of 20-25 Corpus and agro 5-8 at most. The rest all run past. The second is to make the dmg area the same as Volts Ulti. In a spherifical dynamic, rather than a shockwave. (Keep the way it looks obviously, but the damage should be felt 360x360x360) and through object. 

 

Lets just fix it for good. Lets fix it right. I like the frailty of Nyx, but it is only complimented by absorb, due to the fact that damage has been delt to this female frame of a delicate design, now they will pay greatly by Nyx unleashing her pain upon them.

[MeteorKing]

Why not just make absorb a giant bullet attractor on Nyx, I mean BIG, that is only affected by enemy bullets and at the end all absorbed bullets are added to player ammo?

 

I heard that ammo was going to become a little more scarce, otherwise this idea is pretty bad.

[Tulzscha]

Post-9.8 thoughts.

 

Mind Control and Chaos  - No complaints, and please don't change them...solid as it is.

 

Psychic Bolts - Yeah they fly faster...but still a garbage skill for the damage relative to energy cost considering Mag's Pull deals more damage AND crowd control via ragdoll for less energy.

 

Absorb - Damage and aggro-attract better, but still not worth it...too many enemies just ignore you. As stated by others above me, the figures are roughly correct, as you only can only bait around 20-25% of enemies on screen (tested in mobile defense) into attacking your Absorb ball. Also using it crashed a Cyath game I had earlier. I see no reason to equip this other than for the lulz.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Tulzscha

[Estred]

I've been getting positive feedback on this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/105037-how-to-use-absorb-and-how-we-can-make-it-feel-good/

 

Ragdoll was mentioned or at least a short range stun on termination. Absorb needs better scaling believe it or not it does not need better aggro, you have to use it better. The video showing Absorb was all of 3 seconds long and did more damage than currently. Take a look tell me what you think, I am following and updating that thread with good suggestions from the community. Let's show DE that we have ideas and we support them!

[TuxPenguino]

I've been getting positive feedback on this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/105037-how-to-use-absorb-and-how-we-can-make-it-feel-good/

 

Ragdoll was mentioned or at least a short range stun on termination. Absorb needs better scaling believe it or not it does not need better aggro, you have to use it better. The video showing Absorb was all of 3 seconds long and did more damage than currently. Take a look tell me what you think, I am following and updating that thread with good suggestions from the community. Let's show DE that we have ideas and we support them!

 

Number 1, Forum seeding like that is a little redundant when there is an actual pinned thread.

 

Number 2, The whole point of agro is anyone in range of sight would be "agressively charged" to attack the person is question. Reason being, Nyx looks like she is in an exposed and vulnerable, thus the enemies attack seeing it as an opportinuty to kill her, only to find that the damage they delt was then used against them.

 

Agro is a big part of it. One FIX could be that when Absorb is started, a shockwave of Phyc Power could radiate causing enemies to agro in that area of affect. (Or at least the enemies who where in the radius of attraction when activated while newer enemies would be uneffected)

 

I did notice 800 base dmg, like once or twice. (To only one or two enemies) The rest of the time it deals 250s and rarely a 620.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Tuxpenguino

[TunaMayo]

Number 1, Forum seeding like that is a little redundant when there is an actual pinned thread.

 

Number 2, The whole point of agro is anyone in range of sight would be "agressively charged" to attack the person is question. Reason being, Nyx looks like she is in an exposed and vulnerable, thus the enemies attack seeing it as an opportinuty to kill her, only to find that the damage they delt was then used against them.

 

Agro is a big part of it. One FIX could be that when Absorb is started, a shockwave of Phyc Power could radiate causing enemies to agro in that area of affect. (Or at least the enemies who where in the radius of attraction when activated while newer enemies would be uneffected)

 

I did notice 800 base dmg, like once or twice. (To only one or two enemies) The rest of the time it deals 250s and rarely a 620.

 

I am guessing that the damage of absorb is not armour ignore, hence the varying results on base damage.

 

Potentially Absorb could do tremendous amounts of damage even without armour ignore, if it ignored line of sight. I still can't come to grips with why that wasn't Scott's first move, all other ultimates ignore line of sight!

 

Oh well, Update 10 is here so we won't get another frame rework for a month.

[Estred]

Number 1, Forum seeding like that is a little redundant when there is an actual pinned thread.

 

Number 2, The whole point of agro is anyone in range of sight would be "agressively charged" to attack the person is question. Reason being, Nyx looks like she is in an exposed and vulnerable, thus the enemies attack seeing it as an opportinuty to kill her, only to find that the damage they delt was then used against them.

 

Agro is a big part of it. One FIX could be that when Absorb is started, a shockwave of Phyc Power could radiate causing enemies to agro in that area of affect. (Or at least the enemies who where in the radius of attraction when activated while newer enemies would be uneffected)

 

I did notice 800 base dmg, like once or twice. (To only one or two enemies) The rest of the time it deals 250s and rarely a 620.

Yes I know about Forum Seeding. The thing was a huge post and official threads are gunked up sometimes. Would you rather I copy-paste it into here for a Wall-o-Text about it?

 

Anyway here, a Copy Paste of the whole darn thing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have played Nyx well on T3 and Survival missions to over 70 minutes so I feel I know how to both use and how to fix Absorb to make it feel good and be worthy of being an Uber/Ultimate Skill. Also it will justify the cost and time to use it.

 

Current state Absorb is a strange skill, it's a utility/defense skill with an offensive twist. There are a few ways to use Absorb. Also remember it deals less damage the further from the center enemies are. Currently it's a pretty big blast at 25 Meters (50 Meter Diameter). However it is blocked by terrain.

 

How to use Absorb in it's current state by function.

- Protecting an ally while the pick-up a downed ally. Enemies cannot shoot in the Absorb Bubble and they cannot shoot in from the outside. Thus you and your allies are totally protected from gunfire.

- Jump into a cluster of Heavies and Fusion Moas or any other hard-hitting using, but especially F-Moa as thier Laser super-charges Absorb. Immediately drop Chaos so they attack each other. Activate Absorb. Chaos has a longer duration that Absorb does so even with Continuity you will absorb all the damage the enemies would have dealt to each other, and blast it cumulatively to them all, then walk away as they continue to fight one another.

- Emergency protection of the Cryo-Pod. Just like the 1st option this is a "pinch" skill to prevent the pod from taking damage. You need your team to fill in for you during this however.

 

The problems with absorb are apparent to anyone who has followed the Fix-Nyx thread. Aggro isn't one of them. You have to use it right. The bigger issues with absorb are:

- Blocked by Terrain

- Damage Falloff

- Leaves Nyx Vulnerable after termination if any enemy lives.

- Deals subpar damage for the amount of time lost channeling the skill.

 

Now how are those to be fixed without breaking the skill? Well first off some of those aren't problems they are limiters. Terrain blocking the blast is a limiter and should not be removed if other issues are resolved. Now I will address each problem directly.

 

Damage Falloff

Simply put you only deal 100% Damage 5m from Nyx herself, if anyone has a more exact number feel free to post this is what  I seem to get when I test solo. The result is even is you absorb 200,000 damage you probably are only dealing 100,000 at best and more likely 50,000 to most enemies. That is of course if you can absorb that much and enemies who deal those numbers probably have 1,000,000+ HP. The way to fix this really is to just remove the Fall Off from the equation. No other ult does this and Antimatter Drop, jokingly called "Mobile Absorb" has no falloff. A lesser cost skill is more effective than Nyx's Ult, this is a problem.

 

Leaves Nyx Vulnerable

This issue is resolved by using Chaos before Absorb in a cluster of enemies. However many a Nyx would love having a form of Damage Reduction for 3-5 seconds after Absorb finishes channeling, a form of residual energy. Perhaps the Reduction could be based off the damage dealt in a ratio. Effective use of the skill nullifies this problem.

 

Edit: Thank you to Yangskiii for the idea.

I actually agree with him in that a secondary method to alleviate the "kill me now" effect that terminating Absorb has currently would be to have a form of pulse similar to Wuym's Crowd Dispersion. Either a Stun or the above mentioned DR would be reasonable approaches to alleviate the death-lotus that Nyx is dropped into if she misplaces Absorb. Almost no other ultimate punishes a frame quite so much for improper use. The only close ones are Volt and Banshee.

 

Deals Sub-Par Damage for the time spent Channeling

Heh, long problem name I know. Basically for sitting there for 10-15 Seconds (Continuity+Constitution) you can have easily shot off 5 full rounds of Sobek or 10 Ogris Shots, both of which will have dealt far more damage than Absorb can even dream of right now. The way to resolve this? Like Antimatter Drop, Absorb should compound the damage it receives. Perhaps the ratio could be by rank for example;

- Rank 0: 100% (damage in = damage out)

This is what Absorb is now.

- Rank 1: 175% (damage in * 1.75 = damage out)

*So we start getting more damage out, and since we removed fall-off it's more reliable.

- Rank 2:  250% (damage In * 2.5 = damage out)

* Absorb starts hurting and scaling better to late game.

- Rank 3: 325% (damage in * 3.25 = damage out)

*Alright now Absorb is really hurting hard and capable of doing high-damage detonations when used right.

 

Numbers are hypothetical and would be up to DE to decide I use these values for reference not actual suggestion.

 

So that is how I feel Absorb is used currently and how it can be fixed without overpowering it and without redesigning it. These are purely numerical changes to the skill.

- Fall-Off Radius = 0 meaning no fall-off

- Damage Reflected scales by rank.

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Estred

[TuxPenguino]

if you read the posts on previous pages you would have seen the metrics of your post already revealed.

 

I think the whole point is why do absorb when any other frame can one hit in a quarter of the time. Radial Javalin Ranks in the tops because of its inate almost unlimited puncture at 1000dmg per hit. I have jumped into a massive group of enemies with nyx and my Excali Prime... Absorb = 10kdmg (at most) Fail      Radial J = 30-60k dmg. FTW

 

 

But it is nice to have 420 energy and spam chaos though. ;)

Edited September 12, 2013 by Tuxpenguino

[TuxPenguino]

All I am saying is that you fix the agro effect and the through walls/objects problems, then you dont have to change anything else.

 

The whole issue is not enough dmg/sec focused on you because even though you jump in the middle of them, 20 of the 30 keep heading to the objective.... the rest just star melee'g you.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Tuxpenguino

[Estred]

if you read the posts on previous pages you would have seen the metrics of your post already revealed.

 

I think the whole point is why do absorb when any other frame can one hit in a quarter of the time. Radial Javalin Ranks in the tops because of its inate almost unlimited puncture at 1000dmg per hit. I have jumped into a massive group of enemies with nyx and my Excali Prime... Absorb = 10kdmg (at most) Fail      Radial J = 30-60k dmg. FTW

 

 

But it is nice to have 420 energy and spam chaos though. ;)

I did read a number, my apologies for having not seen it. Sometimes I get carried away with an idea.

[Teekoi]

So far Chaos is the only thing that is GOD-LIKE!

Thoughts::

Mind Control - stays the same

Psychic Bolts - Able to summon more of those "pointy stones" or be on par with Shuriken except it pierces through since its not a physical attack. It's a mental attack, if that makes sense. And the "Bolts" reminds me of Boltor, so it should have the same effect with the impaling. Of course, more damage, faster, and once hitting an enemy they should light up so we can track them down. Lasly, lower the Energy cost by a LITTLE!

Chaos - stays the same

Absorb - It should also do damage to those who are behind the walls, crates, and doors! Plus, like the name suggests, the ability should include life-steal to your allies if they are close enough. But not  a lot cuz that'll make Absorb OP and broken. C'mon..Absorb in Pokemon drains the enemy's health, so why can't this since there aren't many Trinities around.

[TuxPenguino]

I read one post how the person wantedtheir Shade to stop going invisible when they do absorb because they like the stealth gameplay. I will be honest. Never saw Nyx as a stealth frame, but i tried last night and nothing comes close to a Nyx with a Dark Sword, twin gremlins and a DREAD! 

 

I said it once i will say it a million times. All that has to be done is radial agro effect on enemies near by when jumping into absorb. It will agro the enemies, whether they see you or not because they are shooting at the point of Origin of the Agro, which happens to be inside your bubble. 

 

Again. Absorb is a Phsycic ability that draws the enemy into your snare, encouraging them to shoot you. In the PS4 "The Call" Video where there was five enemies firing at nyx in her Absorb state, it would not have even knocked those enemies down. (What they probably did, if they used game mechanics, is AMP the Grakata the enemy was using in that scene to 18,000 dmg/sec to have that kind of effect when she released Absorb) {18,000x5=90,000dmg against 5enemies x 500health/300armor/100sheilds = 2500health/1500armor/500shields}

 

 

 

 

Total Guestimation and what the game feels like. Reall numbers would be more revealing.