Nyx 9.8: Feedback Thread

[NuclearFlapjacks]

I think the rest of the thread has covered most of the details I was concerned about pretty well, but I still have a few!

 

FEEDBACK: Nyx's Chaos can't be cast again until the previous Chaos has entirely worn off. I would love to see that limitation removed.

REASONING: Chaos is one of the few abilities I've tried where supporting mods such as greater duration felt like a DOWNGRADE.

Upgrading the duration doesn't just mean the ability lasts longer, it also means Nyx may risk being locked out of use of the ability for longer, and poses much greater risks to survivability, especially as a warframe that is flimsy by design.  All it takes is one affected enemy hiding behind a box, on a ledge or standing in a hallway, and I can't use Chaos again regardless of how many enemies are near me.  A maxed Chaos in poor circumstances can lock out the ability for 25 seconds, and with maxed Continuity and Constitution mods (+58%), about 40 seconds. I keep finding myself "turtling" to survive this (which is pretty lame), so I avoid those mods.

 

FEEDBACK: Nyx's Absorb locks players in place during use (10 seconds maxed, 15 with both duration mods), generally used while exposed outside cover.

-For some reason my sentinels seem EXTREMELY likely to get destroyed/damaged while doing this, whether or not I survive the mess. As far as calculated risks, chances are that my sentinel's survival is worth way more than a few uses of Absorb. If our sentinel's survival could be buffed during and briefly after Absorb, that could be cool.

-If I had to keep up with a running team, I'd not likely use this move as it puts me 10-15 seconds behind, not to mention what I'm trying to kill or protect against may be long-dead within that time, with more on the way and me falling behind. Like someone else said, the option of ending Absorb early would be cool.

-EDIT: While locked in place, the ability is still at the mercy of the enemy's movement.  Successfully landing the attack 10-15 seconds later may take some real luck, skill and coincidence.  Only one of those 3 traits is practical or predictable.

 

DISCLAIMERS:

-I don't claim to be a Nyx expert.

-I do understand it could be OP if enemies could be Chaos'd nonstop.

-I admit I don't know what Chaos's "nerf" was, which was mentioned a few times in this thread.  Chances are it happened when I wasn't playing yet, or I was not yet paying attention to Nyx.

-I DO feel each warframe should have some means to be "OP" in their own special ways, but I recognize that Nyx might already be "OP" having both Chaos and (a someday less situational) Absorb.

-Chaos and Absorb are hilarious when they work nicely.

Edited September 8, 2013 by NuclearFlapjacks

[Hogfather]

Ummmmmm.... When I read the changes to Nyx I almost wet myself from excitement. Finally some aggro for Absorb........ Then I played her and the only aggro she got was all the grineer running past her. Stopping. Running back to her. Looking at her for a couple seconds. Maybe one out of 4 shooting 3 rounds at her. And then a ``big screw you guys I`m going home`` from those who did shoot at her and all of them leaving. Not what I was expecting....... I literally got to watch the grineer enter the room, run around chasing my teammates, my teammates kill them, and then when there was nothing left around me the orb would explode and have no effect.

 

Is Nyx not a psychic frame? Can she not mind control an enemy? Does she not send waves of chaos streaming from her like BO? Does she not stab the minds of her enemies to death? How the hell can she not slyly suggest for enemies near her to shoot at a HUGE GLOWING GREEN GLOBE??? Is it too much to ask for for her to have mind altering powers? This has needed to be changed since before chaos was taken down from God mode. Why does she even still have this ability if it still does nothing?

 

In other interesting ways of changing it for better:

 

 

If you've played Nyx you'll know that sinking feeling you get when instinctively hit 4 when you're about to die and realize that you've doomed yourself. Against high-level mobs, the damage simply is not high enough to kill them, and since it does not even make them flinch, you're dead on the ground before you can even finish the ending animation. Simply buffing the damage to make it kill any mob is overdoing it, so I think a good solution would be to make the explosion inflict a ragdoll state on enemies that survive it, giving you a bit of breathing room to find some better cover.

 

The ragdoll effect doesn't make sense with the ability. It's a psychic attack. It would make sense to go through walls (while Nyx is absorbing she is definitely up to some shenanigans like mind probe to know where enemies bodies are) and then stagger the enemies because their brains have just been full on attacked by mind daggers in every direction. So I say NO to ragdoll but yes to through walls and some cc.

 

TL;DR Abosrb still does nothing. Please fix

Edited September 8, 2013 by Hogfather

[Strozza]

I play Nyx a lot (or did, before I decided to give this game a bit of a break until update 10), so here's my feedback. 

 

Psychic bolts still doesn't work. I was hopeful when I saw the changes, but my friend pointed out that this might simply make the bolts splat against walls and cover even faster, and it seems he was right. I do like the idea of bolts going through cover, at least (walls might be a bit broken what with the map layout), but they should still probably shoot straighter initially before beginning to seek. I would love to hear the devs comment on why or why not those changes are feasible/balanced.

 

As a bonus idea that I haven't really seen before, I've been thinking about the diversity of warframe powers recently and noticed that our frames don't have many varied methods of debuff. Nova has a speed decrease on her ult, frost can freeze enemies, and banshee can make them take extra damage, but what about other options? For example, considering that bolts are a 50 power ability that don't do a whole lot of damage, and the idea that they're psychic, what if the targeted enemies received a (temporary?) debuff to accuracy or damage output? Stun and freeze seem very played out to me, and I like the idea (considering you can aim the bolts) of briefly reducing the damage potential of a key set of targets, especially in higher levels.I've also seen ideas for armor reduction abilities tossed around recently, which sounds good, although I'll wait till the damage rework in update 10 to see if it's even necessary. Unlike some people, I really like the idea of psychic bolts, and I'd love to see them get some well deserved functionality.

 

Absorb also doesn't work, at least not reliably. A lot of people seem to have the same concern that absorb is becoming just another nuke, albeit completely redundant with its extended cast time. It needs differentiation more than it needs more base damage, and I think addressing the reliability concerns of this ability would go a long way to bringing it in line with the others. Ragdoll seems extreme, but ignoring walls or making the enemies stop to engage you in the open, rather than sitting in cover (this probably doesn't have to do with aggro, since the ability seems to have plenty. More like a facet of the AI). As mentioned, enemies in the bubble don't seem to take damage. Absorb is another ability that I just adore the idea of, and it has serious cool-factor in theory, but it needs to have a niche. 

 

I'm really glad to here that Nyx is getting an additional pass soon, I was worried when I saw the changes that she would be placed at the bottom of the balance deck again after this. 

 

On a different note, I still can't believe we're getting comments like this:

 

They didn't touch Chaos because it was already nerfed into the ground a few patches ago.

 

Nope. It didn't have a timer, and they added one. It boggles my mind how anyone can still say this with a straight face, given the insane potential for producing bunched up enemies that also ignore you (Antimatter Drop, anyone?). Seriously, this ability could last half as long and still be great. The fact that it gives you 30+ seconds of target practice at any enemy level makes it the biggest reason by far to use Nyx in the first place. Mind control is far better than most of the abilities in this game. Yeah, you might get a chaosed enemy stuck behind a wall so you can't reactivate it. It can be annoying. You could wait 10 seconds... or just go find it and kill it? "Nerfed into the ground"... I don't even.

 

Mind Control needs to go. It is useless and currently sits as an empty spot on my Warframe. It does the same job as Chaos, but it doesn't do it as well.
 

 

Mmmmmmnope. Mind control is the opposite of useless, it's an instant cheap target neutralization and it stuns bosses. The extra DPS potential is especially high from corpus techs, poison ancients, and heavy gunners. Also ancient healers are great. Saying it does the same job as chaos isn't even hyperbole, it's factually inaccurate. 

[TunaMayo]

Nyx 9.8: Feedback Thread

 

Scott's Comments:

Pretty straight forward buffs, Bolts should be more useable in tight spaces. Absorb will be more consistent in its damage output. This was just a brief pass on Nyx. She will be getting a further look in the coming weeks. Any suggestions and feedback welcome.

 

Changes:

 

Psychic Bolts: Now seek and fly faster, more in line with other warframes.

 

Absorb: Now has higher base damage (min 800) and should attract more attention.

 

Can we please push for Absorb and Psychic bolts to ignore Line of Sight?

 

That would make them both SO much more useful.

[MochiDDR]

Physic Bolts buff was nice, but it still feels pretty unreliable, considering it's also a 50 energy ability rather than 25. As others have said, making the ability go through walls or have some innate puncture so they can go through small cover at least would make this ability worth casting. Entering a large room full of grineer that are waiting behind cover should be an opportunity for Nyx to use the bolts to expose and draw them out to gunfire (although chaos can also do that, but still).

 

Absorb on the other hand, needs a rework to make it more in line with other 4 abilities, but can still remain unique.The major problems right now are that enemies still ignore or simply don't know what to do when Nyx uses Absorb, casting the ability can be the death of you if nearby enemies don't get killed, and the duration is simply way too long for such little effect.

 

Suggestion for Absorb rework:

 

1. On top of drawing more aggro to enemies, force some of them to attack Nyx. Make all close (15-25m?) enemies brainwashed into exiting cover and emptying their magazine on Nyx. This could either override Chaos influence temporarily or ignore it. Mind Controlled enemy should probably ignore it. This AI influence would make the absorb rack up much needed damage, and make Nyx even better as a CC support.

 

2. Apply a flinch/stun to the final blast so Nyx can exit safely. Bonus points for making dead enemies ragdoll across the room. High level enemies often don't die from Absorb, so having a safe landing after the blast, even if for one second, is needed.

 

3. Cut the duration of Absorb in half, and increase damage absorption accordingly. 10-15 seconds of sitting still is too much time taken away from the player and the action. Make the ability more like the trailer version: a quick skill with a powerful reflection.

 

4. Something optional I thought of: Make all enemies that fired projectiles into the Absorb take a % of their personal damage back at them, regardless of the distance from the blast. Think of it as Nyx stopping the projectiles and turning them back to the enemies that fired them. This would make all nearby ranged enemies take a greater amount of damage, and enemies outside of the blast/influence radius can still receive some damage. Like a very long range Trinity Link, but delayed until the end of Absorb and only for projectiles.

[Penghaw]

Throwing in some suggestions:

 

Mind Control:

- Mind Control-ed unit gives EXP when killed by either Tenno or enemies.

 

Chaos:

- Enemies killed by another enemy under Chaos gives EXP to all Tennos

*Solves the issue where it actually makes people hold back on using Chaos until the last critical moment.

 

Absorb:

- Disables enemy based on distance to Nyx during the blast

Units within 5 m will be ragdolled

Units within 5-10 m will be knocked down

Units within 10+m will be staggered

[Liverslices]

Nyx was my second frame, and I deffinetally feel the pain if everyone who has ever used Psychic Bolts (<--EDIT i cant spell) and was dissapointed I'm not sure why the Devs didn't make them able to go through walls in the first place, and I guess they forgot about it (cough cough)... But the people of this fine game and this fine thread SHALL UNITE AND FIGHT FOR OUR PRECIOUS PHYCIC BOLTS!!

#BOLTSTHRUWALLS

Edited September 8, 2013 by Liverslices

[Penghaw]

Nyx was my second frame, and I deffinetally feel the pain if everyone who has ever used Physic Bolts and was dissapointed I'm not sure why the Devs didn't make them able to go through walls in the first place, and I guess they forgot about it (cough cough)... But the people of this fine game and this fine thread SHALL UNITE AND FIGHT FOR OUR PRECIOUS PHYCIC BOLTS!!

#BOLTSTHRUWALLS

Yea, they are "Psychic" Bolts ffs. They should be able to go through anything and hit only units with minds (means it excludes MOAs and Ospreys).

[Liverslices]

I cannot tell a lie... I do not care about spelling... Just saying

#boltsthruwalls

[Gekker]

I just came here to suggest two things that could help out Nyx's Absorb A LOT. Because right now it feels like a pain in the a55 to use that ult in almost every situation except for defending a location.

 

1. The ability to cancel Absorb when pressing 4 a second time.

Especially when you add both Constitution and Continuity the duration of the ult's duration is too long for most situations. I don't want to suggest to remove the compatibillity of these mods with Absorb since its actually a nice option to have but I get into too many situations where I start the ult, my teammates clear the area and I am just sitting in the air while everyone else is moving forward and leaving me behind. A option to cancel Absorb prematurely would make Nyx's ult a lot more flexible for such situations. Since it channels incomming damage it should not have a negative impact. But there should be a timer of maybe 3 seconds before you are able to cancel it so people would not "spam" it.

 

2. The ability to use other abilities while using Absorb.

I haven't thought that one through to be honest. Its just an interesting idea to think about. I think this feature would make Nyx an exceptionally great Warframe against high level enemies since it gives Nyx the ultimate battle control if the player has enough energy.

It wouldn't always be wise to use e.g. chaos during the duration of Absorb but that would be up to the player then :)

What do you guys think?

Edited September 8, 2013 by Gekker

[Psyked]

On the topic of Absorb: http://youtu.be/JClqzhwVcgU

And no, this wouldn't have been any different without Shade, I tried.

[GottFaust]

Nope. It didn't have a timer, and they added one. It boggles my mind how anyone can still say this with a straight face, given the insane potential for producing bunched up enemies that also ignore you (Antimatter Drop, anyone?). Seriously, this ability could last half as long and still be great. The fact that it gives you 30+ seconds of target practice at any enemy level makes it the biggest reason by far to use Nyx in the first place. Mind control is far better than most of the abilities in this game. Yeah, you might get a chaosed enemy stuck behind a wall so you can't reactivate it. It can be annoying. You could wait 10 seconds... or just go find it and kill it? "Nerfed into the ground"... I don't even.

• They significantly shortened the duration. It always had one, but the enemies would continue fighting each-other after the actual effect wore off due to the fact that they had damaged each-other. This feature actually affected more than just Chaos as enemies that shot each-other through Bullet Attractor would actually fight as well until this change went live.
• They added the single-cast limit. You used to be able to cast chaos whenever you wanted. Now you have to wait until it either wears off, or for every enemy affected to die.
• They shortened the effect range significantly as well.

It was a three-fold nerf, and any of the three individual changes would have been enough. Edited September 8, 2013 by GottFaust

[magnaar]

I have to say every time I happen to use Absorb I feel like a fool hanging there for like a minute while somebody else comes and kill everything and leaves while I still hanging on the air before absorb can even do anything.. it is a life saver in some solo situations but pretty useless in most cases for me

Is it possible to reduce its casting time like half ?? or add small reflect damage that doesn't deal much but staggers attackers ?

[Yefrign]

Absorb is definitely MUCH better.

but I still say Psychic bolts need more tweaking... the supposed 'buff' for them still hasn't made them worth the energy and still miss a good 89% of the time.

[VuzPause]

If I may say you guys need to fix a problem where I had my Nyx and I did mind control and my other team mates didnt see who I was controlling and shot him so please if you could fix this issue that would be great 

[Zaenos]

Physic Bolts buff was nice, but it still feels pretty unreliable, considering it's also a 50 energy ability rather than 25. As others have said, making the ability go through walls or have some innate puncture so they can go through small cover at least would make this ability worth casting. Entering a large room full of grineer that are waiting behind cover should be an opportunity for Nyx to use the bolts to expose and draw them out to gunfire (although chaos can also do that, but still).

 

Absorb on the other hand, needs a rework to make it more in line with other 4 abilities, but can still remain unique.The major problems right now are that enemies still ignore or simply don't know what to do when Nyx uses Absorb, casting the ability can be the death of you if nearby enemies don't get killed, and the duration is simply way too long for such little effect.

 

Suggestion for Absorb rework:

 

1. On top of drawing more aggro to enemies, force some of them to attack Nyx. Make all close (15-25m?) enemies brainwashed into exiting cover and emptying their magazine on Nyx. This could either override Chaos influence temporarily or ignore it. Mind Controlled enemy should probably ignore it. This AI influence would make the absorb rack up much needed damage, and make Nyx even better as a CC support.

 

2. Apply a flinch/stun to the final blast so Nyx can exit safely. Bonus points for making dead enemies ragdoll across the room. High level enemies often don't die from Absorb, so having a safe landing after the blast, even if for one second, is needed.

 

3. Cut the duration of Absorb in half, and increase damage absorption accordingly. 10-15 seconds of sitting still is too much time taken away from the player and the action. Make the ability more like the trailer version: a quick skill with a powerful reflection.

 

4. Something optional I thought of: Make all enemies that fired projectiles into the Absorb take a % of their personal damage back at them, regardless of the distance from the blast. Think of it as Nyx stopping the projectiles and turning them back to the enemies that fired them. This would make all nearby ranged enemies take a greater amount of damage, and enemies outside of the blast/influence radius can still receive some damage. Like a very long range Trinity Link, but delayed until the end of Absorb and only for projectiles.

Seconded. Especially #2. Currently, Absorb is a suicide button in high-level battles. All that aggro that gets drawn to you remains after the protection stops, and before you can move.

[EvoxAGN1337]

I think there should be a "friendly shield" on Mind- Controlled enemies from Mind Control. Its clearly not as useful on a team when they are rage killing and Mind Control is just seems useful but ends way too quickly.

[CloudPies]

I think there should be a "friendly shield" on Mind- Controlled enemies from Mind Control. Its clearly not as useful on a team when they are rage killing and Mind Control is just seems useful but ends way too quickly.

NO. That toxic/disrupter/heavy is going down 10 meters from the pod and not anywhere closer!!!!

[STORRM]

:D then have the rag-doll power be effected by how much dmg is done to Absorb. then shes Absorbing the impacts and punching it out AOE. seems legit vs infested. still probably underwhelming vs grinner, should fire out bolts vs ranged attackers.

[zombaio]

We fixed Absorb they said, Nyx now has more abilities than buttons 1 and 3 they said.

 

Lies! lies upon lies i tell you! :D

 

Psychic bolts is out of the qouestion - we all know how it its (never been working, never going to work). But for Absorb i had at lest the slightest hope to see that thing kill an enemy instead of me at lest once! Once!

 

Nope. Wrong again said the game to me and laughted over my dead body.

 

2 days of solid testing on different levels and mission types resulted in this conclusion. If you dare tuoch the number 4 on your keyboard = certain death.

 

 

 

So yeah great patch over all with all the  successfull Vauban, Nyx, Ember and Trinity changes, As the forums show most of the community enjoys the immensly! Well done DE.

[Meatuchu]

I maintain that absorb should be removed. Cool on paper, lame in practice. No player is just gonna wait out the absorb so that nyx can be useful, which I guess was the original point.

[Zaenos]

I maintain that absorb should be removed. Cool on paper, lame in practice. No player is just gonna wait out the absorb so that nyx can be useful, which I guess was the original point.

The idea of shortening it's duration, but multiplying the absorbed damage could actually make it quite useful. Assuming it's made safe too.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Zaenos

[syle]

well nyx is in horrible state

only useful ability is chaos

 

psychic bolts - they need to have pierce build in 100% - it makes sense too since they are MENTAL projectiles

 

mind control - this needs to be changed to perma mind control of 1/2/3 targets depending on lvl - and the mc targets cannot be killed by other tenno , they can only die from npc or from nyx herself 

 

absorb - ok change this ability to mobile - at the start of the cast nyx will perform her yoga animation - create a shield around her than finish her animation (make the animation faster or add 2-4 seconds to duration making it 7/9/11/13),than get back to normal state but with the shield active around her - allowing her to run around and kill stuff while the shield absorbs the dmg, takes agro and explodes at the end, making it 100% pierce would be nice too since it could be considered psychic power and its ultimate after all

 

with those changes nyx will be perfect I would imagine

Edited September 9, 2013 by syle

[Keltik0ne]

Well, I've had some time to play and test, so feeback it is:

 

Mind Control - usefull to me, love it if you can find a heavy, hate that you can't override it by casting on another mob.

 

Suckic Bolts - Free mod slot ? Free mod slot. Skill still blows, it's not worth the energy.

 

Chaos - Love this, almost as much as I love the new Pull. Needs to be unnerfed back to what it was, but still the best skill Nyx has.

 

Absorb - This suprised me, I had no idea how buggy it is since I rarely slot it (It's handy if your in a clan team that will help you charge it up, otherwise meh) - Mobs still ignore it, Shade still ruins it, it sometimes explodes for ...... 0 damage (what happened to it's new improved minimum damage) and it doesn't affect mobs in cover. This skill is, for a staunch Nyx player, a turd. It's awfull, so bad it's painfull to see another Nyx waste the energy casting it.

[Noabettiet]

Being nyx has it's percs, offensive is just not one of them.

I still find the psychic bolts to be useless. Not for the damage or anything alike, but for being outclassed really quick by any other weapon.

Their accuracy is just horrible, it makes it only viable at extremely specific situations.

 

While on the other hand, i am neutral with the ultimate skill.