Bring Back The Old Pull Mechanic For Mag

[Taihus]

my opinion is different than yours

I don't want the old pull at all im happy with the new pull - makes it more fun to aim for ragdolled targets other than just pul everything I can see to me and charge attack

I found that to be shallow and boring

the new pull is awesome and I love it

its not my problem you don't like it

It may not be your problem, but we're trying to have a debate here, not point fingers.

I've found it fairly interesting that some of the best frames that aren't the ones that do massive damage are the ones that have abilities that do interesting things, like Frost with his defensive abilities, Mag's pull, Rhino's iron skin, Loki, Ash, Vauban and so on. What DE needs to understand is that when you can do a lot of damage with weapons, abilities are only interesting and fun to use when they can do things that weapons can't do, like make enemies chain explode or distract them. This is why Ember is taking a lot of flak, since all her abilities are focused on damage dealing, and why you don't respond to whining by just upping damage.

[Saou]

I'm in for the old pull that the OP explained. That was the only reason I made mag :/ and I like the idea of keeping the new pull to. My suggestion would be :

 First Power: The old pull

 Second Power: The current pull ( I still find shield polarize useless e.e ) 

 Third Power: Same

 Fourth Power: Same

[cary2010haha]

 

Less is more, and this is nearly always universally true. In art, in design, wherever. You see it all the time. Just google best/worst film posters. Nearly all of the best posters are simple. Apple's design is entirely based on simplicity. 

 

 

New Pull just kill all the enemies, and the old pull is pull and kill all the enemies by use other weapon or power.

 

which one is more simple? one move to kill or two moves to kill?

I think the best pull is just doing huge damage  and just knock them down where they are, better one shot kill them all. Less is more

[Izumori]

Incorrect, prior to 8.3, she was partial utility without a place in the game.  8.3 changed her from not having a specified role to an assault Warframe, her powers were focused on being more selfish and wanting to be in the thick of things.  This gave rise to the melee Mag that became popular amount Mag players.  With this, Mags new "in the thick of it" playstyle brought along some new synergies with other warframes/weapons that allowed for groups to play without needing a "press 4 to win" makeup.  Mag has a place and was valued by players who knew how to use her/play with her.  This new pull puts her back on the fringe since it breaks the team synergies and interactions with herself, unless they can fix the issues that came up with it.  If you want to see Mag support, she would need a 100% makeover, otherwise Assault Mag is here to stay. M

I've started playing Warframe around version 9, so I can't really reflect on what Mag used to be before.

I didn't mean to imply support alone when I said utility (sorry for that); utilitarian is perhaps a better word to describe current Mag, or to me that is.

Mag excels both in offense and defense, I should have elaborated on that.

 

Pull is (used to be) great for melee and crowd control but can also help you, your teammate or your defense objective in a pinch.

Shield polarize has gotten some offensive potential with the hotfix, though it remains a mostly situational ability that's more suited to defense.

Bullet attractor is a pain to bosses (and a pain to anything with the right guns) but can also be used as an improvised shield.

Crush is nice to kill groups of (low-mid level) enemies but also keeps them in place for a couple of seconds if you need time.

When you're surrounded by toxic ancients, pull is a no-no and crush is a go-go.

 

Pull is what ultimately made me pick Mag as a starter warframe.

The other abilities are all situational to a degree but pull works for every occasion.

I can't say this new pull does it any justice and it doesn't quite *pull* like its predecessor.

All that Mag really, really needs right now is AP crush, not press-button-one-to-kill-everything-cheaply.

[cary2010haha]

All that Mag really, really needs right now is AP crush, not press-button-one-to-kill-everything-cheaply.

So you want a "press-button-four-to-kill-everything-cheaply" Mag? just like saryn, nova, rhino?

Edited September 9, 2013 by Cary2010haha

[Taihus]

New Pull just kill all the enemies, and the old pull is pull and kill all the enemies by use other weapon or power.

 

which one is more simple? one move to kill or two moves to kill?

I think the best pull is just doing huge damage  and just knock them down where they are, better one shot kill them all. Less is more

You're not thinking creatively, man.

[Drifter11]

New Pull just kill all the enemies, and the old pull is pull and kill all the enemies by use other weapon or power.

 

which one is more simple? one move to kill or two moves to kill?

I think the best pull is just doing huge damage  and just knock them down where they are, better one shot kill them all. Less is more

 

Unsurprisingly, you've missed the entire point. Instead of having a very SIMPLE utilitarian ability that enables you to do MORE with it, we're stuck with a flashy nuke that complicates fighting and that we can't synergize with anything.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Drifter11

[ss4chris]

I miss the old mag pull.

 

 and  crush needs to be buffed or armor ignore or something.

[Drifter11]

 This is why Ember is taking a lot of flak, since all her abilities are focused on damage dealing, and why you don't respond to whining by just upping damage.

 

I agree. Ember needs some kind of pillar of fire totem she can place on the battlefield or something like that. Still damage, but at least lets you be creative with positioning. Or the ability to summon a fire elemental. Anything besides just fire spells.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Drifter11

[Izumori]

So you want a "press-button-four-to-kill-everything-cheaply" Mag? just like saryn, nova, rhino?

Consider the following:

 

Mag is more dependent on its weaponry than your average warframe.

Two of Mag's abilities are best used in conjunction with weapons, another one is dependent on shields on your targets.

Crush fills this gap and it's a godsent when you're out of ammo, underequipped or overwhelmed.

 

I'm perfectly fine with press-button-four-for-crowd-control, I'm not fine with press-button-one-to-make-nova-look-less-op.

[jmthebigman]

New Pull just kill all the enemies, and the old pull is pull and kill all the enemies by use other weapon or power.

 

which one is more simple? one move to kill or two moves to kill?

I think the best pull is just doing huge damage  and just knock them down where they are, better one shot kill them all. Less is more

and we got another brainless noob...

 

ragdoll = enemies get immune for a few seconds.

 

previous pull i could wipe a room of lvl 100 mobs with ease in 2 seconds. but yeah stupid people (i say it nicely) never knew how to use pull effectively.

i out damaged nova's with it.

[Corpse_of_KTS]

the indirect point of this topic is "Nova needs a nerf" and that's the hardest truth that needs to get faced

[Preanette]

the indirect point of this topic is "Nova needs a nerf" and that's the hardest truth that needs to get faced

no it isn't. We don't want mag to be anything like nova. Nova can keep her power while mag gets her own utilities....

[Terrornaut]

Utility, interesting utility, not loldmg, is what we loved about Mag.  Pull could be extremely dangerous and convenient, and hell, that risk of pulling toxics still made it interesting.  There was risk vs reward with old pull, now there is not.

Given many of the changes, and recent frames, I wonder if the risk/reward concept is one this Scott person considers important, and what goals he is really striving for on the whole for Warframe mechanics.  It might benefit us all if we had an idea, so we could emphasize or minimalize certain feedback based on that.

Its always tough because you don't know everything a designer, especially a mechanics designer can know about a game and its systems, but designers are people too, they make great decisions, poor, and mysterious decisions with their job at times.

[Drifter11]

I just think the buff is misplaced. Crush is what needs damage/armor ignore, not pull. Pull should remain a cheap utility ability.

[Phoenix86]

I just think the buff is misplaced. Crush is what needs damage/armor ignore, not pull. Pull should remain a cheap utility ability.

 

this

[A1CZERO]

I enjoy the new pull and it's lol factor. It may hit too hard and too far and too wide and through walls for a 25 energy skill but that's okay since Nova c....okay yea...couldn't do that with a straight face.

For real. The new pull is funny and all, but it doesn't pull. It just tosses enemies everywhere if they move at all. Almost all utility is gone and no longer has any synergy with her other abilities.

I vote for old pull back. The only advantage over the old pull is enemies are dragged over guardrails(sometimes). Not worth it imo. I prefer old pull by far.

[Taihus]

That and pulling downed or in trouble friends.

[dashashou]

I for one like it when your powers interact with other players i lets u actually feel like your a team working and interacting with eachor . 

 

Maybe have a pull inspire a charging lunge attack ( the side wall run attack animation ) in the direction of the pull 

[Drifter11]

I for one like it when your powers interact with other players i lets u actually feel like your a team working and interacting with eachor . 

 

Maybe have a pull inspire a charging lunge attack ( the side wall run attack animation ) in the direction of the pull 

 

I agree. Synergy, not just for Mag, but for all frames should be a priority. Abilities should compliment each other, as well as certain weapon builds. Frames should be able to combo abilities, like Mag used to be able to do.

[BeenProSinceDay1]

Old pull FTW. Mag is my favorite warframe, I learned early that Pull was a start up of a combo so to speak. I based every piece of equipment around this skill. I went out and bought a strun because of Pull, I went out and bought a bronco because of pull, I even hunted down the stalker for his scythe because i found out the swings hit low...........and now its just not the same. As stated earlier even if this attack did 0 damage I would not have any quarrels, but the skill as it is now is absolutely butchered. There is no point in using crush and the ragdoll effect from Pull is misleading, turning around and seeing that little old ancient I thought was dead take a whack at me is not fun.  

[Viibl]

Old Mag was weak. That said, I don't think the meaningful changes to make her strong should be concentrated in a single, dramatic skill change (i.e. Pull).

[Estred]

I've mained a Mag since open beta. Anyone that mained Mag and knew how to use her knows how fun and effective she could be. Pull was a great CC ability that could be used for agressive short-range play, or defensively for defense missions.

 

Yes, Pull did not do much damage That was not what it was about. Pull was for crowd control, and it worked nicely if you synergized it with your other abilities and used close range weapons with high sustain like the Sobek or Flux Rifle.

 

Now, the results of Pull are random, so my synergies are gone and weapon choice doesn't matter so much. The damage buff is nice, but unnecessary. The utility has been lost. Now it's just a nuke that doesn't work well with the rest of her kit.

 

DE, please change this back. It worked perfectly before. I think anyone that discovered how to really use Mag to its full potential will agree with me on this.

 

 

*EDIT*: I agree with White_Raven. I wish the ability to Pull downed teammates would be returned. I can't tell you how many clutch revives I made Pulling teammates out of a bad situation.

 

*EDIT*: To be specific, I am suggesting that DE bring back the Pull that was introduced in Update 8.3 that changed Pull from a single target ability to an ability that pulled all enemies in a cone in front of you.

I like the new pull, I feel it just needs more concise Ragdolling, thus far enemies are just clustering up near my feet and are real easy to demolish with a shotgun. They are quite close I find the new one much easier to use and she synergises well with other frames. Maybe that is just my experience, can't wait for Mag Prime.

[litlit]

I agree with you, OP.

 

Mag was my starting frame, and I love(d) playing her. I did think she needed a buff to bring her up to the level of other frames.

 

But, changing the "pull" part of her Pull ability was a horrible choice that defeats main purpose of the ability. Pull is supposed to, you know, pull your targets (friendly and enemy) towards you. Now, half of the enemies hit fly off in a random direction, with the other half usually coming partway towards you.

 

I can see that your intentions here were good DE, but this pretty much ruins Mag. I'm not opposed to the extra damage, or even the ragdoll if it would stop being so buggy, but it really needs to pull enemies like it used to (and also, ideally, a single ally if you target them).

Edited September 12, 2013 by litlir

[jackalthehyde]

I don't know about this. I could be crazy, but. Uh. I do not just pull a single target. And I do not just pull targets right in front of me either. Could be the mods but.... Yeah. I doubt it.

 

Edit: Not all come all the way forward but, half the time they all die anyway in lower missions. Still uberuseful in defenses. ALSO, I would appreciate being able to pull downed allies.

Edited September 12, 2013 by jackalthehyde