Underclocking And Build Diversity

[Callback]

We still really need underclocking or a way to obtain multiple umbral mods to allow for build creativity, instead of allowing players to permanently lock themselves out of a desirable build by ranking up their singular copy of an umbral mod too far.

 

We've been asking for underclocking since update 7.  It's definitely doable.  It's just adding another value in the equipment configuration indicating the "applied" rank of the mod installed there.  I don't know exactly how the backend works (seems sloppy based on sentinel vs warframe weapon installs) but this change should be possible without needing to redo any of it, save for slightly increasing the size of saved configurations.

 

It would even make fusing installed mods easier.  Instead of removing the mod from all configurations it is in, it would just underclock within those builds, if necessary, to the max allowed rank.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Callback

[greenblazes]

This feature would go a long way in broadening the options players have to customize their builds. I think this would be awesome!

[shut]

10 minutes ago, Callback said:

We've been asking for underclocking since update 7.  It's definitely doable.  It's just adding another value in the equipment configuration indicating the "applied" rank of the mod installed there.

I wish it were that simple. 

DE has stated themselves that they weren't able to implement mod-underclocking because of technical issues... which sounds a bit silly considering that DE designed the game's engine, but when you consider the other silly problems that you'd think would be easy fixes (e.g. Zaws being unable to equip skins because the grip+strike are what define the hitbox), then it's not really too far-fetched.

[peterc3]

52 minutes ago, Callback said:

I don't know exactly how the backend works

 

52 minutes ago, Callback said:

It's definitely doable.

Well, which one is it?

[OptimumBow0]

1 hour ago, SortaRandom said:

I wish it were that simple. 

DE has stated themselves that they weren't able to implement mod-underclocking because of technical issues... which sounds a bit silly considering that DE designed the game's engine, but when you consider the other silly problems that you'd think would be easy fixes (e.g. Zaws being unable to equip skins because the grip+strike are what define the hitbox), then it's not really too far-fetched.

As I interpreted it, the statement they gave was that, at the moment, yes it is a mess. However, Rebecca did make the concession that the method is already there because the inventory storage has to keep track of mod copies at different ranks already, and she did say they would like to tackle the idea in the future. So there is hope.

vv Just my conjecture on implementation vv

Spoiler

 

From my limited experience with programming, I imagine the inventory data is like a very large browser cookie stored in their servers, literally a txt or json file, and the only complicated element is having to insert identifiers into the mod objects that specify how many copies at each rank a user has that also find mod conflicts between the sentinel weapons and primary weapons. Adding another layer on top is tricky because you have to identify: mod type, max rank, underclock, install, # of rank copies, and # of underclock copies. The trick is that you can't store a max rank R7 Serration and an underclocked R12 to R7 Serration as the same mod, so it gets messy. It is still possible, though. I think I did the math in another thread and estimated its implementation would be a few hundred kb to store onto the servers for every user, which isn't a lot. I must admit it was a best-case exercise and it could be more like a few MB, but eh.

Alternatively, they could store the underlock info client-side, keep the inventory key on their servers, and let the game handle meshing the two. 

 

3

 

18 hours ago, Callback said:

It would even make fusing installed mods easier.  Instead of removing the mod from all configurations it is in, it would just underclock within those builds, if necessary, to the max allowed rank.

 

Also, hadn't thought about this, very nice perk.

[Callback]

On 2018-11-28 at 10:36 AM, OptimumBow0 said:

vv Just my conjecture on implementation vv

  Hide contents

 

From my limited experience with programming, I imagine the inventory data is like a very large browser cookie stored in their servers, literally a txt or json file, and the only complicated element is having to insert identifiers into the mod objects that specify how many copies at each rank a user has that also find mod conflicts between the sentinel weapons and primary weapons. Adding another layer on top is tricky because you have to identify: mod type, max rank, underclock, install, # of rank copies, and # of underclock copies. The trick is that you can't store a max rank R7 Serration and an underclocked R12 to R7 Serration as the same mod, so it gets messy. It is still possible, though. I think I did the math in another thread and estimated its implementation would be a few hundred kb to store onto the servers for every user, which isn't a lot. I must admit it was a best-case exercise and it could be more like a few MB, but eh.

Alternatively, they could store the underlock info client-side, keep the inventory key on their servers, and let the game handle meshing the two. 

 

3

 

My idea is that the underclock is not stored on the mod itself, it doesn't have to be.  It's stored on the configuration.

"This slot on my warframe contains my rank 10 Umbral Vitality, underclocked to rank 6."

It wouldn't need to complicate or interfere with the mod storage system at all.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Callback

[Cephalycion]

1 hour ago, Callback said:

My idea is that the underclock is not stored on the mod itself, it doesn't have to be.  It's stored on the configuration.

"This slot on my warframe contains my rank 10 Umbral Vitality, underclocked to rank 6."

It wouldn't need to complicate or interfere with the mod storage system at all.

Wouldn't that take alot of data?

[Callback]

48 minutes ago, Cephalycion said:

Wouldn't that take alot of data?

No, very miniscule.

[OptimumBow0]

5 hours ago, Cephalycion said:

Wouldn't that take alot of data?

Roughly 18 Gb assuming 3 million users, ~250 moddable items in inventory with 3 configs apiece, and 8 extra bytes (1 byte per slot to denote the underclock value).

So, yeah,

4 hours ago, Callback said:

very miniscule.

It seems ingenious.

[Teridax68]

This is a popular suggestion that many players have been asking for years, and apparently it hasn't been done yet because, under the hood, the mod system is so poorly implemented that something as conceptually simple as ranking a mod down is currently almost impossible. It is not an excuse that can last however, imo, and I think sooner or later DE needs to update their legacy tech, particularly when it prevents the future release of good content. Considering how DE didn't seem particularly bothered by these technical hindrances when releasing the Riven mod system, a profitable piece of content nobody asked for, that was designed with even less foresight and incurred several orders of magnitude of increased technical complexity, I believe they absolutely have the capability to update their mod tech, even if there currently seems to be a lack of immediate incentive to do so.