Has there been a discussion about the disconnect between the health values of enemies and players?

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

That's not entirely true. Players don't love bullet sponges, players love flow. Flow is a mental state that requires a number of conditions to be met, one of which being feedback of performance. The huge numbers on the weapons are pretty much just a cheap thrill when looking at the numbers, and the huge numbers on the bosses is so you don't oneshot it, but instead feel like an epic battle is taking place since you're not oneshotting it or causing visibly massive damage, whilst still seeming to be able to dealing good damage. They're not necessary parts of it though - as long as the relative standards are set, it can honestly be any number. Consider that Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is often looked at as one of greats of the RPG genre but even at the final boss you only deal damage in the range of 4's and 5's. Yet, still, considered a great game. The numbers aren't a requirement, the feedback of progress, yet not too fast, is.

For another example, of the opposite, the Gravios from Monster Hunter is a complete damage sponge, but due to the absence of any real feedback of how much damage is being done it feels like an absolute slog to fight. The fact it's a damage sponge actually hurts the fight.

Well, it's true with the largest games.

Now if you want Warframe to be a special snowflake, that's niche gaming. It'll just attract that type of player who likes walking with a pebble in their shoe. Most will not enjoy that discomfort.

Why do you think the zombie games became so popular? It's not that they're terribly difficult. It's not like they're "new" beasties. It's that it's easy to kill them by the thousands. That's fun for people. The mere fact that WoW became the biggest MMORPG was it was easier to play than Everquest. Who wanted week long lockouts? Who wanted all the dramas? Players just want to get online and find whatever they want to do, and not return to those bad old days, again.

If you played video games for decades, you did the challenges, now it's time to enjoy the other aspects of gaming.

[Rakosta_Kai]

14 hours ago, Tazrizen said:

I'm just curious if there was a possible reason how come players have drastically less health than enemies and yet enemies have much lower damage output than players.

That's basically why it is that way.

..add the fact that enemies cluster into hordes.

14 hours ago, Tazrizen said:

Also when it comes to gaining levels and progression, there's often a lack of feeling of progression. You get mods and other stuff sure, but that feels more like item collection than it does growing in power.

It can definitely feel that way depending on how you kit gear.

the mods are supposed to follow a progression in power overtime but that's been short circuited by stronger mods and trading.

That said the variety of mods opens build options for players not specifically following "metas"

15 hours ago, Tazrizen said:

how come we don't have varying levels of HP when it comes to warframes? 

We do have varying levels of hp depending on the frame.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Well, it's true with the largest games.

Now if you want Warframe to be a special snowflake, that's niche gaming. It'll just attract that type of player who likes walking with a pebble in their shoe. Most will not enjoy that discomfort.

Why do you think the zombie games became so popular? It's not that they're terribly difficult. It's not like they're "new" beasties. It's that it's easy to kill them by the thousands. That's fun for people. The mere fact that WoW became the biggest MMORPG was it was easier to play than Everquest. Who wanted week long lockouts? Who wanted all the dramas? Players just want to get online and find whatever they want to do, and not return to those bad old days, again.

If you played video games for decades, you did the challenges, now it's time to enjoy the other aspects of gaming.

Uh... the Paper Mario series has sold some 10 million units overall... that might not be the biggest in terms of sales, but it's not small by any stretch. For reference, World of Warcraft after Battle of Azeroth is also at 10 million active players. So... yeah. Paper Mario's not exactly niche gaming. Not quite as mainstream as Call of Duty perhaps but it's no 'Dust an Elysian tail' and a lot bigger than Warframe which is at time of writing sitting at 50,000 current players and peaked today at 70,000. Remember: the '36 million registered losers' is just how many people have ever registered, not necessarily active players, which is what matters for an online game - as opposed to Paper Mario which is a single-player RPG.

Zombies aren't just popular because they're easy to kill, otherwise games like Left 4 Dead which have several special zombie types which are distinctly tougher to kill wouldn't have taken off. They're popular for several reasons, but for example, one of them is the same reason why it's satisfying to kill Grineer clones in Warframe - killing humans without the same kind of moral implications. The Grineer are born-evil clones without any way to redeem them and no lives outside violence or preparing for more violence. Zombies look like humans and get killed like humans but aren't technically humans so we get the rush of killing a human without the squishy questions of 'am I doing the right thing?' Psychology is surprisingly important in gaming.

Besides, Flow is a lot more universal than you might think and it's pretty much impossible to not get satisfied by it. It's been suggested by some to be the 'secret to true contentment' so if you are that's quite impressive. I'm not sure I personally believe that, but it's a feeling that's almost universally a positive experience.