Mind Over Mission: RNG and Rewards that excite!

[TheWhitterMatter]

Hello fellow tenno, welcome back to Mind over Mission. A few days ago I talked about the poor state Warframe is on twitch compared to less popular games, as well as compared some of the rng to my current favorite game Path of Exile. If you want to read it the link is here: 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1050611-mind-over-mission-big-game-no-viewers-why/?tab=comments#comment-10443650

Now, I will discuss a little deeper into rng and high difficulty rewards. While I am not an expert and numbers or rng statistics, I have some knowledge from the rng based games I play, and some knowledge of the rate at which some things drop in game. Lets get started.

As many of us know, Path of exile not only relies on rng, but the amount of rng continues to grow. A few years ago on the release of The War Within, we received Riven mods that require four forms of rng to roll perfect (almost 5): 1) get a riven mod in sortie, 2) get the type of riven mod you want, 3) unveil the mod for the weapon you want 4) reroll over and over again until you finally get what you want. The reason why I say almost 5 is because you sometimes have to reroll the mod so many times that you have to start the system over again. While this imo is the best and most interesting form of rng in the game, it never feels rewarding until you get what you want, aka could be some months if you get unlucky or you just buy one, because who wants to spend that much time getting one mod. Riven mods are frustrating, but at least it feels godly when you finally get what your looking for, but there really isn't enough of decent rng in warframe, and there certainly isn't any potentially fun rng mechanics in warframe, except for syndicates spawning in and Stalker showing up. (I will get more into this in another post)

We need some endgame, yes? While it would be cool to have an all powerful boss to fight as an endgame thing, I doubt that will happen, as DE seems to be more focused on cosmetic things vs content, as that's mostly what I see on dev streams. However, just in case they read this, I will display some ideas for an endgamey type of situation. 

Currently, according to LifeofRio, endless survival is the only form of end game right now in the game; its not arbitrations, and its not the Sortie. I do agree with LifeofRio, so for now, because survival is the only mission worth going deep into, and my suggestions fit this gamemode because of its excess-ability. Survival, especially on Mot (Void), start to get difficult at wave 40, assuming your starting mission as at least level 35+. I'm going to be honest I get one shot my corpus shot guns all the time (btw fix scaling). I want to suggest mods and variations of mods that begin to drop post enemy level 150. This enemy level means that it will begin to finally separate people who play the game casually, vs people who who want to treasure hunt and have the best gear/min max. IT may also mean that people who played casually will play the game more, and work hard to get these mods. 

So what are the mods, you ask? Hear they are.

Mods that have a .005 chance to drop from any enemy that is above level 150.

Orokin Sinew (10 ranks) R16

+500 flat heath

%100 increased health

Piercing Puncture R12

Puncture attacks from secondary weapons reduces enemy armor by 5 per bullet. (that means shot gun pistols would be buffed)

Fast As Wind R16

50% chance for enemy attacks to deal no damage

Gain 50% bonus movement speed when you get hit

Silencer Buffer (10 ranks) R14

Silent weapons deal 150% increased damage

 

You may notice these mods bring some interesting and unique stats into the game. You may also notice it has a .005 chance to drop from enemies. I did some rng testing and from what I saw if your killing 5000 enemies post level 150, you do have some good chances of one dropping; however that means about an hour or two of fighting generously difficult mobs that can one shot you. Mesa won't work here, Frost won't protect you. These mods are just a few ideas from me and friends.

However that's not all. I would suggest certain mods that we already own gain value if they drop at a higher level of mission. For example post level 150, a vitality can potentially drop as 41% increased health and levels up like that each time, vs the current 40%. That means that on max that mod will be 456% increased health, or a redirection mod that drops 45% is 495% at max. These mods would be extremely rare to find, but imagine finding a barrel diffusion able to have 150% increased multi-shot vs 120%.

My expectation is about 25-30% of the warframe community is able to do the high end content, but only 5% of people will actually do it. Yeah people do have work and not everyone won't have as much time to do it. However, for these mods, I think anyone will strive to have them. DE might even gain some plat buys from people aiming to buy them off people. The idea is that they are rare enough that people who gain one of the mods won't often have doubles. People can grind for them, but I think that based on how expensive people price things, my bet is the price will be at least 200 for mods you don't have to rank up much but work was put into the grind, and 500 for maxed for work + endo. 

One more thing before I close this out. ME and a freind were talking about status and we thought how great it could be, if status chance over 100% had a chance to proc an additional status. A time where weeping wounds could finally be chosen instead blood rush, procing two stacks for corrosive at once or some enemy is hit with double slash procs with proced with viral. 150% status chance is basically 50% chance for an addition status sooo... yeah, this would tip the meta on end.

Anyway please post your comments down below. I am eager to see them. Also if you have any questions just ask me!

Have a nice day/night!

 

[Loza03]

12 minutes ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

Currently, according to LifeofRio, endless survival is the only form of end game right now in the game; its not arbitrations, and its not the Sortie. I do agree with LifeofRio, so for now, because survival is the only mission worth going deep into, and my suggestions fit this gamemode because of its excess-ability.

And I don't.

Raw damage and big numbers do not challenge make.

Bull*** game design that mimics challenge through cheap oneshots  and bullet sponges, yes, but not true challenge. Kirby is more challenging than staying 12 hours in survival - all you need for the latter is Ivara, Ash or some other frame that effectively turns gameplay off as long as you play it safe, and you can go forever whilst never playing the game. Whereas in Kirby you need to develop skills such as dodging, timing and pattern reading. You don't necessarily need to develop them very much, but you do need to. 

For another example, I have no doubt that one of those neural net AI's could play Mot forever without much trouble, yet one of the most famous ones for Gaming, Mar/IO can't even beat the second level of most Mario Games.

[TheWhitterMatter]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Bull*** game design that mimics challenge through cheap oneshots  and bullet sponges, yes, but not true challenge. Kirby is more challenging than staying 12 hours in survival - all you need for the latter is Ivara, Ash or some other frame that effectively turns gameplay off as long as you play it safe, and you can go forever whilst never playing the game. Whereas in Kirby you need to develop skills such as dodging, timing and pattern reading. You don't necessarily need to develop them very much, but you do need to. 

For another example, I have no doubt that one of those neural net AI's could play Mot forever without much trouble, yet one of the most famous ones for Gaming, Mar/IO can't even beat the second level of most Mario Games.

I agree with you man. I really do. Ivara and Ash and others can do this easier, sure, but it offers a place where they shine. My idea is that hopefully only about 5% of the community will be able to obtain the mods without buying them.

[Loza03]

Just now, TheWhitterMatter said:

I agree with you man. I really do. Ivara and Ash and others can do this easier, sure, but it offers a place where they shine. My idea is that hopefully only about 5% of the community will be able to obtain the mods without buying them.

The term you're looking for is 'Aspirational play', and it's tricky.

It requires that newer players look up to players at the highest level and think 'wow. I want to be that someday'. If that highest level is sitting in a mission, doing basically nothing for a day? I don't think people will bite.

[TheWhitterMatter]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

The term you're looking for is 'Aspirational play', and it's tricky.

It requires that newer players look up to players at the highest level and think 'wow. I want to be that someday'. If that highest level is sitting in a mission, doing basically nothing for a day? I don't think people will bite.

Perhaps your right. There is no exciting endgame content like other games. IT pisses me off that there is nothing I actually want to do in warframe anymore. I do these posts to make me feel better and to vent some, that way I don't sit and vent at my clannies.

[Loza03]

12 minutes ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

Perhaps your right. There is no exciting endgame content like other games. IT pisses me off that there is nothing I actually want to do in warframe anymore. I do these posts to make me feel better and to vent some, that way I don't sit and vent at my clannies.

Ah. Fair. I do want more stuff to do as endgame. I just don't think this is the right way to go about it.

[TheWhitterMatter]

19 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Ah. Fair. I do want more stuff to do as endgame. I just don't think this is the right way to go about it.

What are you opinion of those mods though? Those would be fun to have.

[Loza03]

19 minutes ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

What are you opinion of those mods though? Those would be fun to have.

Well, let's look at them

20 hours ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

Orokin Sinew (10 ranks) R16

+500 flat heath

%100 increased health

No. So much no. Due to how the game handles mods, the 100% increased health would be calculated with the health once increased by 500. Inaros would basically become so much more immortal that he could probably body-block a Fomorian attack. Even fragile frames like Banshee and Limbo would have the option to become decently tanky, which considering that Fragility is usually used in Warframe to balance out absurd power, is a potential problem.

20 hours ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

Piercing Puncture R12

Puncture attacks from secondary weapons reduces enemy armor by 5 per bullet. (that means shot gun pistols would be buffed)

That's not really as useful as it might appear. See, a lot of heavy units - the guys you really want to armour strip - have a lot of base armour. Bombards, for example, have 500. So you'd need to land 100 shots before their armour was stripped. That's if this is base armour, which is how Shattering Impact (which I assume this mod is based on)  - if we were talking scaled armour though, a level 150 Bombard has 15,830 armour. 5 armour per shot off that is... worthless. It's just worthless.

There's a reason that Shattering Impact isn't used on more weapons. This is it. The worst thing is, it wouldn't even necessarily be better than Sarpa armour stripping because the Sarpa fires a consistent 5 rounds , which makes calculating the armour strip to leave just a little (for the benefit of abusing damage types) much easier.

20 hours ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

Fast As Wind R16

50% chance for enemy attacks to deal no damage

Gain 50% bonus movement speed when you get hit

A neat mod. Seems decently strong but not overpowered. Not sure I'd give it rank 16 though.

20 hours ago, TheWhitterMatter said:

Silencer Buffer (10 ranks) R14

Silent weapons deal 150% increased damage

I don't calculate maximum DPS a lot, but this has the potential to be kinda… OP. A lot of silenced weapons already do a lot of damage for the purpose of stealth XP multipliers. For example, the Dread. This might be quite problematic. Then again, it might not be. I'm not sure - again, I don't calculate 'Max DPS' like some players.

[kamikazeTMX]

Im just waiting for a huge open space world in space and underwater.. and more missions in space because i totally love the flying gear and weps... always the cool stuff they forget about.. woulda think devs in this game or the game designers dont think outside there tiny bubble? well not anymore it seems..

[TheWhitterMatter]

So to get back to you @Loza03 on this topic. The mods are intended to be very strong. Yeah this woul make Inaros goddamn strong, but it would also be more useful for other frames who aren't as gifted with hitpoints like volt, excal, rhino, and others who really should be tankier like atlas. Peircing puncture isn't for any secondary weapon. Imagine using it on shotgun pistols. in a few shots you have reduced quite a bit of armor. the purpose of the mod is to allow something like corrosive on a weapon and freeing up a mod slot at the same time, which means more combustibility. Also it means weapons with terrible status chance now have a way to shred armor. I particularly like the final mod, because it finally gives players who have this mod (btw its a non-stackable aura mod) a reason to amek their weapons silent. it gives players more control of how they want to play the game. That's mostly what the purpose of all of these mods are. I love customization, and I can't ever get enough of it. I crave it. However, the mods we currently have are mostly basic, not counting a few newer mods and the acolyte mods. One reason that makes mods like the acolyte mods so strong, is how they take a mechanic in the game, and they allow the player to make it into something better (mostly) or just something different. We need more mods like that in this game. 

Just imagine  of the other mods I created, Power In Time which turns all power strength into duration. The mod on its own gives nothing to the player, but it changes how you build your character, while taking up a mod slot.