Melee: Please don't take away our ability to manually "block" with melee.

[Golmihr]

12 minutes ago, TheRealShade said:

I do agree that not being able to block while gliding sucks and I feel like the aim-glide zoom should either go away or be reduced.

As for channeling eating all your energy because of auto-block, why don't you turn off channeling when you don't need it? Personally when I heard they're moving channeling and making it a toggle I just went ahead and rebound it on my own and turned it to a toggle so I get used to it before the update drops. Guess what? I got used to it and it feels no different from before.

Also, doing a melee attack is still way faster than the old weapon swap speed so your issue with having to melee before we can block is invalid.

Quote

Also, doing a melee attack is still way faster than the old weapon swap speed so your issue with having to melee before we can block is invalid.

Forgot to reply to this part.

If I move around and need to aim glide then I'll need to do a melee swing with my Galatine Prime again before I can block. It used to be I could just have the weapon out permanently. So not invalid.

[DeltaPangaea]

Here's my thinking.

Melee 2.9 was designed from the point of view that people will only want to switch to something at the INSTANT they need it. It doesn't matter if your gun or melee is out, because you can switch to the one you want instantly!

Except it does matter. You can't block with a gun out. If you want to sword, you need to take an entire swing which fecks with what you're doing rather than just 'drawing the weapon'. You can't just casually and purposefully draw a melee weapon or your gun anymore. You need to slash at the air, or shoot a goddamn wall, or lurch your screen, or switch to your OTHER gun. Oh yeah and speaking of, switching BETWEEN GUNS still takes time!

And if you're one of the people like me who fought with M1 Melee, then it's even bloody worse, because then what M1 does changes based on what weapon you have out too. And if you want to go back to guns you have to Aim, which lurches your screen forward. The system was NOT DESIGNED for the M1 Melee toggle, and it shows so goddamn hard. So very very hard.

I appreciate the INTENT here, DE, but it just really didn't work. And your M1 melee toggle is not helpful in the slightest.

[DeltaPangaea]

I mean basically Quick Melee was way more fluid than this. If I wanted to hit one thing once, I press one button. Now I have to press ANOTHER button to go back to what I was doing before. And not just one button that changes, one button that does something ELSE that HAPPENS to also change it. This is categorically slower.

Edited March 8, 2019 by DeltaPangaea
No real point to the entire quote being there, on retrospect

[Tellakey]

While I love the changes, I fear that DE might be streamlining melee a tad overmuch. More options, please, not less.

[CrazyDarkSonic]

So, I only used to do the beginning of the Lead Tango combo(Bullet Dance), where I would hold block and shoot once, then twice, always giving a less then a second between the shots so I can keep shooting without going into combo.
But now, I literally don't know when I'll shot or when I'll swing, Redeemer is a gamble to use now with Bullet Dance, doing charged shots is only good with sarpa and equipping only the gunblade is completely unusable as you can't hold aim without becoming DISARMED, forcing you to either swing into combo or do charged shots.
I know it's too soon to say anything, and yeah, for most weapons, its a good change, but I'm not liking the no block, still testing other things like Ack & Brunt, but definitely not looking good.
DE, the game NEED a block button.

Edited March 8, 2019 by CrazyDarkSonic

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, Methule said:

Plus you can't aim glide with your melee weapon anymore

Wasn't it always like that ? 

4 hours ago, Methule said:

Also, I hate the zoom in while aim gliding with a gun.

This too... I wish I could permanently turn this off for all weapons and the Scanners too. I never want to Zoom in while  gliding. 

4 hours ago, Golmihr said:

Block is automatic now. but only if your character got a melee weapon out. So you need to swing in the air now for that to happen.

I don't think I've ever seen anyine ever do this. Before.... Because Before the Weapom swiching just took way too long.... It would be better to just Face Plant your way into a group of enemies... get downed and then shoot them while you're bleeding out and pray someone revives you.... I feel like this is significantly more effective than waiting for that slow Holstering and Drawing Animation....

 

[BemoGuinness]

Feels so much worse and a few steps back than what we already had.

[DeltaPangaea]

36 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I feel like this is significantly more effective than waiting for that slow Holstering and Drawing Animation....

And we didn't need to screw up what we had before that worked when we could have just sped up the animations. And if 'hold weapon switch to equip melee' took too long, then just give it its own button.

[Golmihr]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

I don't think I've ever seen anyine ever do this. Before.... Because Before the Weapom swiching just took way too long.... It would be better to just Face Plant your way into a group of enemies... get downed and then shoot them while you're bleeding out and pray someone revives you.... I feel like this is significantly more effective than waiting for that slow Holstering and Drawing Animation....

 

Not if you focus on speed with berserk + primed fury and max sprint speed (Which I did). Admittedly I don't see many who used it but I'm confident I don't do it "wrong". (Also a melee player don't get downed. Blocking helped with that. They move fast and one-shot high level mobs before they can react but that's another topic. But if you got a problem with staying alive then just use Inaros)

Plus some terrain just requires you to go into aim glide to reach the mobs.

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Golmihr

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

And we didn't need to screw up what we had before that worked when we could have just sped up the animations. And if 'hold weapon switch to equip melee' took too long, then just give it its own button.

Its not the Input that took too long. Its the The Actual Holstering And Drawing Animations that took forever.

I heard the Melee 3.0 Changes were inspired by Devil May Cry... well anyone who played Devil May Cry will tell you that Aesthetically Pleasing and Consistent Animations Never took priority over Control Responsiveness.... its why Juggling even became a thing. 

LoL... like... in Warframe its so slow that if I don't die from the Holstering Animation then I'l die when I try to requip my gun after blocking to actually shoot 

[Golmihr]

6 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Its not the Input that took too long. Its the The Actual Holstering And Drawing Animations that took forever.

I heard the Melee 3.0 Changes were inspired by Devil May Cry... well anyone who played Devil May Cry will tell you that Aesthetically Pleasing and Consistent Animations Never took priority over Control Responsiveness.... its why Juggling even became a thing. 

LoL... like... in Warframe its so slow that if I don't die from the Holstering Animation then I'l die when I try to requip my gun after blocking to actually shoot 

If you use melee primarily then you don't switch all the time. No-one is suggesting to go back to the old method. Just that it'll be an option to be able to pull our melee weapon out permanently on top of the new system.

Then people will have the option to use what they prefer.

[DeltaPangaea]

9 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Its not the Input that took too long. Its the The Actual Holstering And Drawing Animations that took forever.

I heard the Melee 3.0 Changes were inspired by Devil May Cry... well anyone who played Devil May Cry will tell you that Aesthetically Pleasing and Consistent Animations Never took priority over Control Responsiveness.... its why Juggling even became a thing. 

LoL... like... in Warframe its so slow that if I don't die from the Holstering Animation then I'l die when I try to requip my gun after blocking to actually shoot 

Yes. If the problem was the animations taking too long, then just speed up the ANIMATIONS. Don't feck with the controls.

[Lutesque]

10 hours ago, Golmihr said:

If you use melee primarily then you don't switch all the time. No-one is suggesting to go back to the old method. Just that it'll be an option to be able to pull our melee weapon out permanently on top of the new system.

Then people will have the option to use what they prefer.

I couldn't.... it hurts my fingers becaude my Melee weapon deals no damage.... it won't kill anything about Level 50.

Anyways after spending some times wacking everything with a stick.... the biggest issue with Melee 3.0 is it feels so rushed... its got so many issues.... like when you pick up a Data mass or Power Cell while holding you're secondary if you in insert it it swiches back to your Primary.... when using a weapon it might bug out and lock you into your Primary and won't let you Melee at all....

Its was implimentes way too quickly.

[Lutesque]

8 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Yes. If the problem was the animations taking too long, then just speed up the ANIMATIONS. Don't feck with the controls.

True... good point. :)

[Golmihr]

14 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I couldn't.... it hurts my fingers becaude my Melee weapon deals no damage.... it won't kill anything about Level 50.

Anyways after spending some times wacking everything with a stick.... the biggest issue with Melee 3.0 is it feels so rushed... its got so many issues.... like when you pick up a Data mass or Power Cell while holding you're secondary if you in insert it it swiches back to your Primary.... when using a weapon it might bug out and lock you into your Primary and won't let you Melee at all....

Its was implimentes way too quickly.

Quote

I couldn't.... it hurts my fingers becaude my Melee weapon deals no damage.... it won't kill anything about Level 50.

lol. I always go melee when going against level 100+ mobs. Melee is the best scaling damage in Warframe. You need to learn how slash (proc ignores armor), combo counters and combo counter mods (Bloodrush) work in combination.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Golmihr

[Lutesque]

3 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

lol. I always go melee when going against level 100+ mobs. Melee is the best scaling damage in Warframe. You need to learn how slash (proc ignores armor), combo counters and combo counter mods (Bloodrush) work.

I know how they work... they just aren't working because bloodrush by itself isn't enough. I need either Conditioned Overload or Maiming Strike.... im also using The Sacrificial Mod Set because Baro didn't bring primed Pressure Point.

I also need Health Conversion for Nekros to Stop him from dying if I lose my Combo Multiplier for whatever reason.

[Golmihr]

30 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I know how they work... they just aren't working because bloodrush by itself isn't enough. I need either Conditioned Overload or Maiming Strike.... im also using The Sacrificial Mod Set because Baro didn't bring primed Pressure Point.

I also need Health Conversion for Nekros to Stop him from dying if I lose my Combo Multiplier for whatever reason.

Don't use conditioning overload. If you need that many hits then you are doing something wrong. Maiming strike is a waste of a mod slot most of the time IMO. It's for people who used quick-melee.

I can't prove this to you so you will just have to take my word on it. These are from a while back when I was comparing my own performance (Because I'm a tryhard like that). These are all melee as you can see.

I'm telling you melee works for "endgame". You should give it a try. One of the tricks is to move fast.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Golmihr

[Lutesque]

12 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

Don't use conditioning overload. If you need that many hits then you are doing something wrong. Maiming strike is a waste of a mod slot most of the time IMO. It's for people who used quick-melee.

I use Quick Melee. 😞

12 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

I'm telling you melee works for "endgame". You should give it a try. One of the tricks is to move fast.

The Slide Attack always makes me move... and im always doing it...

I get how the scaling works but the issue is I need more Base Damage so my Crits have something decent to scale from. Get nothing but Red Crits 24/7 is great but need more damage.

 

[Golmihr]

32 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I use Quick Melee. 😞

The Slide Attack always makes me move... and im always doing it...

I get how the scaling works but the issue is I need more Base Damage so my Crits have something decent to scale from. Get nothing but Red Crits 24/7 is great but need more damage.

 

True, red doesn't mean anything in itself if it isn't backed up by raw damage and a good crit multiplier.

My advise. Equip a mod that keeps your combo counter going and equip Naramon. The combo counter increases your base damage so everything else benefit from it.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Melee

The best status effects for melee are slash or viral IMO. When I got a good combo counter going with my Galatine I only need to tab a level 155 heavy gunner once and it'll drop dead in a few seconds. (I run both weeping wounds and bloodrush.)

 

If that still isn't enough: If you don't have the mods then try doing finisher attacks. Blinding an enemy. Staggering them with impact. Knocking mobs down with a ground slam. These all open a mob up for different finisher attacks. You can do massive damage that way. Check the link above for details.

 

Some melee combos also involve slamming enemies down (Tempo royal for example) or performing standing frontal finisher attacks (Rapiers) as just a few examples.

PS(Some combos have a lot of mobility)

 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Golmihr

[Lutesque]

6 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

My advise. Equip a mod that keeps your combo counter going and equip Naramon. The combo counter increases your base damage so everything else benefit from it.

I already have both Bloodrush and Gladiator Rush rush on.... this allows me to carry my X3.5 Multiplier in between waves.... as for Focus Schools.... ZENURIK 4 LYFE !!!! seriously though.... not leaving Zenurik until they do something about this Energy Crisis....

 

11 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

If that still isn't enough: If you don't have the mods then try doing finisher attacks. Blinding an enemy. Staggering them with impact. Knocking mobs down with a ground slam. These all open a mob up for different finisher attacks. You can do massive damage that way. Check the link above for details.

Massive Damage against a single target isn't really useful if the game spawns enemies faster than you can finish them.... and the finisher animation takes WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Too long.

15 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

Some melee combos also involve slamming enemies down (Tempo royal for example) or performing standing frontal finisher attacks (Rapiers).

This is only really useful if I have Redeemer since I can finish two enemies at once with it.... slam attack don't deal any damage.... you'd think decending from the skies with full force on to a single target would kill it but nope.... They just trip and fall....Lame.....

[HonorGuard2074]

In honesty 

 

I used to love doing Timed Channel blocks to do finishers (So finishers on any frame,any melee for a tad bit of energy)

 

Otherwise I miss the old system abit

[Golmihr]

Just now, Lutesque said:

I already have both Bloodrush and Gladiator Rush rush on.... this allows me to carry my X3.5 Multiplier in between waves.... as for Focus Schools.... ZENURIK 4 LYFE !!!! seriously though.... not leaving Zenurik until they do something about this Energy Crisis....

 

Massive Damage against a single target isn't really useful if the game spawns enemies faster than you can finish them.... and the finisher animation takes WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Too long.

This is only really useful if I have Redeemer since I can finish two enemies at once with it.... slam attack don't deal any damage.... you'd think decending from the skies with full force on to a single target would kill it but nope.... They just trip and fall....Lame.....

Quote

Massive Damage against a single target isn't really useful if the game spawns enemies faster than you can finish them.... and the finisher animation takes WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Too long.

Well I'm not going to force you 😛

I'll add this bit though. Dagger have some of the fastest finisher animations. If you have a frame that can cc a mob in some way then a high attack-speed dagger will one-shot a heavy armored mob like an eximus bombard fast. In case you are worried about dying while being locked in an animation.

"Players performing finishers are invulnerable for the duration of the animation."

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Finisher

[Lutesque]

9 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

I'll add this bit though. Dagger have some of the fastest finisher animations. If you have a frame that can cc a mob in some way then a high attack-speed dagger will one-shot a heavy armored mob like an eximus bombard fast. In case you are worried about dying while being locked in an animation.

Hmmmmmm.... I would need a Energy Efficient CC Frame to make this work I'f im going to use Naramon....

Mesa could work....

Infact I think shes the only Candidate. Saryn and Nox bleed energy .

[Golmihr]

11 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Hmmmmmm.... I would need a Energy Efficient CC Frame to make this work I'f im going to use Naramon....

Mesa could work....

Infact I think shes the only Candidate. Saryn and Nox bleed energy .

Not necessarily. Besides rage effects on frames like Inaros, Nidus and other low shield frames... You said something about you using Nekros, right? Combine these 3 on him and you'll be tanky while never running out of energy.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Health_Conversion 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Equilibrium

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Despoil

 

You can ground slam for finishers. Ground finishers don't penetrate armor though.

 

A tanky Excalibur with rage could work too. Ash (Tanky too) with low duration can be an effective stunner. etc There are many options.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Golmihr

[GuwopNinja]

this new melee is worst thing ever in warframe history,give us back old melee with blocking and nice combos and not glitched shot n melee boring way