Mission summary promotes selfish play

[Aether.Shift]

So I was in a PUG that did a teralyst bounty today. The group did it really fast and seamless, so we ended up doing all three eidolons. It was one of those really cool experiences where the team just worked really well together. We had a mix of MR from 14 to 27 and everyone contributed. When the run ended I had the most damage at over 90%. I thanked the group for a great run and they thanked me for carrying them.  There is a problem here.

In my warframe experience thus-far, groups generally gauge the value of their contribution to the mission based on the stats shown in the mission summary.  There are many exceptions, but I believe this is usually true. I've been in groups where players get called out for not doing much damage with that 'git gud scrub' attitude. Stats even support the claim, but more interesting is what the stats are NOT showing. In one memorable instance, the player that had very little damage was healing the group and keeping energy topped up. I saw this trinity moving around a spread out group ensuring bases were covered. It may have been a bit overkill, but looked like a master enjoying their craft. After being called out the trinity left squad and we extracted soon after due to a sharp spike in mission difficulty. I'm not saying an example this blatant is common, but I see it happening to a lesser extent all the time, and it's doing nothing good for anyone.

I would really like to see additional stats like healing out, energy out, kill assists, damage prevented, and ability damage (buffs included?). I think this would promote more diverse frame usage, and foster an attitude that better reflects the amazing community this game has built.

[Jiminez_Burial]

I've always thought the 'Abilities Used' stat was the equivalent of 'Damage Dealt' but for support frames.  I don't see why additional stats need to be added when it's a an issue with people themselves.  If you know you've contributed towards the group through a means other than damage, then why would you care what other people think.  If they're actually saying malicious things then just ignore them.

[auxy]

45 minutes ago, Aether.Shift said:

In my warframe experience thus-far, groups generally gauge the value of their contribution to the mission based on the stats shown in the mission summary.  There are many exceptions, but I believe this is usually true.

Nah. I mean maybe younger people, heh. I've been playing since 2013 and I can probably count on one hand the number of times anyone actually cared what the mission summary said. Much like Starfreak911 said above me, people who care know whether they contributed or didn't. Getting upset about the numbers on the mission summary screen is just immature.

EDIT for clarity: I'm not saying I'm AGAINST additional stats on the mission summary screen, to be clear. I'm almost always in favor of new features and content. I just don't think this is a very good justification for it. Add more stats for fun. It would be neat to see how many times I made enemies fall on their butt. Or whatever. (Channeling some SSBM here.)

More interesting would be frame-specific stats:

• How many enemies Valkyr paralyzed
• How many enemies Atlas petrified
• Maximum number of times a single casting of Spores propagated
• Largest number of enemies blinded by a single Radial Blind
• Number of times a teammate attempted to attack an enemy on the other side of Limbo's Rift

And so on.

Edited April 2, 2019 by auxy

[Aether.Shift]

20 minutes ago, Starfreak911 said:

I've always thought the 'Abilities Used' stat was the equivalent of 'Damage Dealt' but for support frames.  I don't see why additional stats need to be added when it's a an issue with people themselves.  If you know you've contributed towards the group through a means other than damage, then why would you care what other people think.  If they're actually saying malicious things then just ignore them.

I see your point, and I disagree. For an apples to apples comparison we'd likely be looking at something like weapon attacks represented as a number vs abilities used. Weapon attacks are obviously offensive while abilities range widely in their effects. Additional stats don't need to be added, I agree, but I believe they would have a positive effect if they were. There are plenty of studies done on the positive effects of recognition on groups and communities, and those effects are as profound as they are well documented. This isn't about ignoring mean people, or letting my heart tell me I did a good job. It's about having a baseline on which to gauge performance and provide a clearer means to improve. I'd imagine that's why other successful games have it, and why I think this game would do well to adopt it.

 

30 minutes ago, auxy said:

Nah. I mean maybe younger people, heh. I've been playing since 2013 and I can probably count on one hand the number of times anyone actually cared what the mission summary said.

Younger people play warframe. Like, a lot.

Also, you're obviously fibbing about your hand.

[Frozen45]

Damage dealt is the obvious stat focus at the end of matches. Pug groups use it, clan groups use it, and friend groups use it to compare against one another who was the most "effective" for the last round. That stat is used to poke fun at friends for not keeping up and has also been used to disparage and discourage people from playing the game. Each of you who has commented has made a significant contribution of time to playing Warframe. We have played hours and hours without NEW stats to look at and help improve our play...or improve our behavior and appreciation of other players. But new or newer players should be given a new tool to encourage their play...be it support, tanking, or some hybrid beyond just a glass cannon. I dont think it would take much to track and list specific stats like Healing or buffs given; and I think time and energy are relevant here. If its going to take DE weeks or months to implement, then clearly resources could be spent elsewhere until a more comprehensive overhaul is performed on the Mission ending screen. However if its a matter of a few extra lines of code, a few hours or days spent to find the specifics and put them into effect on the client side... why not do it? This game is a TEAM looter shooter. Playing by yourself can be done...but its much more satisfying to run and gun with a group...even a group you dont know. And while no one is asking to be glorified and exulted for their contribution in a given match, it would be nice to give a little recognition to a Trinity or Oberon Main. It gives these players a little reassurance that they also are contributing and not simply being "carried". In short, this change would be about BUILDING up the community and groups running missions, not further dividing them with petty or childish insults. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Frozen45

[Jiminez_Burial]

40 minutes ago, Aether.Shift said:

Also, you're obviously fibbing about your hand.

I don't think he is, it's not much of an exaggeration for me either (6 year vet).  The only times I can remember the stats screen being of any interest to me (or the people I group/get grouped with) was either to check if someone is leeching a bounty (basically if they have 0 next to every stat and we haven't seen them in a while), or if the percentages don't add to 100%.  Beyond that it's just meaningless.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

My first thought was, "People look at the mission summary?" I only take notice when there's something interesting or strange about it (for instance, that one time I fired about 200 shots and got almost 1000% accuracy--still scratching my head over that one).

But I suppose you have a point. I don't know to what extent it's responsible for WF's rife selfishness, I'd venture to guess a minor extent. But I don't want to be that "doesn't affect me so who cares" guy. Who knows, maybe generating optimism is as simple as drawing attention to things other than big $&*^ damage? What I can say for certain is the currently tracked stats are why I pay it no mind.

So here are some practical suggestions. Have you ever played a game that presented match results in a pleasing way, such as "coins" that don't do anything but feel gratifying? In certain Smash Bros. games, this feature compelled me to review just because the UI was so pleasing. This could draw attention to mission summary, making additional stats more noteworthy. Stats like Damage Reduced or Amount Healed may be valuable to track. Crowd Control is an obvious shoe-in but I don't know how tricky that would be to program. Perhaps it would be better to change the order of stats from a fixed order to highest scored across squad. You might have healed more damage than that Chroma dealt, but no one will know if it's all the way at the bottom, beneath uninteresting stats like Upgrades Received and Pickup Count.