Ping filter. Myth or joke?

[MistressMoonpaw]

I dont know anymore if the ping limit filter is a joke, a myth, or a blank option with no meaning. I have a very fast connection, my PC is connected over a LAN cable, not wifi. I have set my ping limit filter as low as it would go, still i regularly am forced to join hosts with a very poor connection. Because warframe is made by geniuses it seems to always pick the worst host for the most compatibility i guess, which means you have 3 people lagging so just so the one guy can play with others.

 

Rant over

Edited April 5, 2019 by MistressMoonpaw

[Kherae]

neither. the ping filter works.you are missing the important part of this: peer 2 peer. their ping is fine. their upload speed is not.they could live next to you, but if they have 100 kb/s upload speed, the connection will be atrocious.

[MistressMoonpaw]

7 minutes ago, Kherae said:

neither. the ping filter works.you are missing the important part of this: peer 2 peer. their ping is fine. their upload speed is not.they could live next to you, but if they have 100 kb/s upload speed, the connection will be atrocious.

so i guess apart from playing solo (which still has too many disadvantages) theres nothing you can do

[Kherae]

that, or play with friends/clanmates you know have good connections.

[fr4gb4ll]

1 hour ago, MistressMoonpaw said:

I dont know anymore if the ping limit filter is a joke, a myth, or a blank option with no meaning. I have a very fast connection, my PC is connected over a LAN cable, not wifi. I have set my ping limit filter as low as it would go, still i regularly am forced to join hosts with a very poor connection. Because warframe is made by geniuses it seems to always pick the worst host for the most compatibility i guess, which means you have 3 people lagging so just so the one guy can play with others.

 

Rant over

the 'ping', which is actually just a command to test the latency (meaning the time a test-packet of data needs to travel between your computer to the destination computer(or router, etc.) and back) has far more factors involved than just your 'fast' connection - but lets go from the start:

except for very bad configured and realized wlans, there is short to none differenz between a wired lan connection and a wireless one to the latenc within your own privat network (well, except your 'privat network' is the size of a corporate network of several hundred endpoints). the latency is influenced by 1st. your computers network-adapter, 2nd. size of your privat network (the travel time up to the router - so, in 'normal' home conditions very short), 3rd your routers speed to compute, code and send/recive everything the protocol(s) needs to get the data packet on its way, 4th. the lengh between your networks endpoint (usually this being the router, but there are some exceptions) and the in-point of your ISP - with wireless uplink methods, though being 'shorter' than cable-bond ones, but being inferior in many ways because of things like 'shared bandwidth' and downscaling if the antenna is running at max capacity, 5th. the speed your ISPs own (privat) network - including several router, switches and a fairly bigger 'line' than your usually home network, resulting in a tiny bit more milliseconds of latency (depending on many things), 6th. the distance the data pack has to travle between the ISP uplink to the 'real' internet highways and the ISP network of your destination (this being e.g. the ISP of the host computer you are connecting in a warframe match), 7th. again, everything that happens inside the privat network of this ISP, 8th. distance from the ISP network-endpoint to your destinations privat network in-point (likely his router), 9th everything that happen inside the destination (host) network and finally 10th. the network adapter and also the computing speed of this host your are annoyed of being connected too... and then... the same way back to your own computer.

i'm sure i missed a few other factor here, but that might give you an overview of the compleycity of what this harmless look 'ping' value contains. in general terms, connecting to the other side of the globe and either side, or both, using a bad choice of connection methods like (3g, 4g, 5g or worse satelite) will result in lags, diashows and disconnections in about most real-time application (which a computer game often enough is).

now, the ping-filter, which may or may not be joke. i can't say for sure without having access to DEs servers, but my theory is that it does have a vial use, but suffers from some factors that comes from a global played game and some peoples silly opinions of how to set their game options. the 'global' part being simply explaind by an example: lets assume you want to play a mission in public setting and the control server begins to look who else is up for it - it will ofc start with the zone you have selected as you home-zone, lets say europe, if, in a defined timeframe is no other player in need of the same mission, the server will expand the search to nearby zones (e.g. north america east). the chance that no one of your zone wants to play the same mission you want incresed, obviously, by the local time (meaning 3am in the moring isn't that much a time people will play the game in your zone) - therefore you are more likely to get connected to someone on the other side of the globe where the local time is just about right for many people playing the game and the mission you want to play.

the time the server will wait and search and the range to look, are know only to DE and surley a few more options for the users might help people to prevent such wonky connections - or a strict zone only connection would... but that's a relative opinion. another way to help preventing bad host/client combinations would be a more thorough testing from the control server about who should be the host - only usefull if the match is in making at this time - a running match were you would be connected to, shouldn't migrating just because another player is added to it who might be a better host. there, DE can improve a lot still - but i give it to them that it is a tricky thing to do. but they should try anyway.

if you often play during 'odd' times, you may want to test selecting another zone where people are more likely also being active atm (by going east or west toward where the sleping time is either over or not yet there ^^)

the max ping setting sure is too simplistic and therefore quite misleading but would likey confuse most user if they would put in more available settings in addition - so, DE should maybe rather send players alone into a match if within the set ping-limit there isn't anyone else who might want to join or, they could at least give the user a settable time of how long they are willing to wait for others to join before going in solo. same goes for an opt-in or out of searching other zones than the one that is selected.

anyway, just wanted to state to you that it's not just simple thing with how matchmaking is concluded in any game, not only in warframe - and sorry for the text-wall ^^)

[Kherae]

@fr4gb4ll big wall of text that explains far less than what I said :p

They need to put filters in by upload speed as that's the determining factor, far more than ping, but determining that would be a major headache.

[fr4gb4ll]

16 hours ago, Kherae said:

@fr4gb4ll big wall of text that explains far less than what I said 😛

They need to put filters in by upload speed as that's the determining factor, far more than ping, but determining that would be a major headache.

well, that only tells me that you have little in experience about computer networks - but that's not a problem as long as you don't try to 'sell' anyone ideas that won't work.

the 'upload speed' is NOT the determining factor as you say - only case where it would is for people who might still you dial-up modems with the V90-standart... those people are unlikely to even play an online game. but even with a meager upstream from your endpoint, this isn't the factor which causes the problems you experienced. if you know how, use a net-sniffer like 'wireshark' and filter for every data packet that went out from warframe - regardless of the destination - then you will see how much (or rather less) the upstream could be for warframe, so that some can be a host and not annoy the client.

ofc, the the computer of the host is also using it's bandwidth for other things (deliberate uploading, update-processen that send data or more serious, any maleware operating on this computer or network), THEN you can indeed get what you say... problem then is, that any 'filter' from DE wouldn't help at all. why? simple: you can't let them constantly check the quality of every users connection - for THAT would cause a lot of problems, not only for them but for every user too. don't belive me? fine, first realize what they have to do for such testing and do the math yourself.

as a computer engineer, i can tell you the determining factor for 'bad hosts' in a online game are the connection type of either the host and/or the clients and/or the ability of the host computer to handle the extra load. there are other factors that can influence the quality, and what i said above about the host using the upstream for other things is one of them, but they are minor factors by far.

[Unoptimal]

17 hours ago, Kherae said:

@fr4gb4ll They need to put filters in by upload speed as that's the determining factor, far more than ping, but determining that would be a major headache.

This. I previously had only 44kb/s upload speed, and when Warframe designated me as host the game would regularly over-saturate my upstream beyond that speed.

Which results in the 1000+ms ping you will see shown in-game with some hosts.

This is especially noticeable in Defense missions when the next wave of enemies spawn and the ping spikes, and then bottoms out again once those enemies are dead.

[Kherae]

'upload speed' might've been a bit off. upstream-designated bandwidth is  probably more accurate. but again, very common cause of high, fluctuating ping in warframe. If your max upload speed (ISPs do put limits, after all) is under a certain amount, warframe will struggle. Your connection will get throttled, which results in rubber-banding et al. Warframe requires at minimum 1 MB/s upload speed for certain content.

As example, I have 0.6 MB/s upload speed. If there's a saryn and I'm hosting, everyone ends up with 1s+ latency.

Download speeds are known for being more generous, which is why I prefer being a client in ESO. it's much less painful even if I get a host with a stable 200ms delay.