Out With Drop Tables! In With Token System.

[AceViper]

Due to recent events regarding the droprate problems, how the current system is always under constant review, and getting broken whenever new content is introduced, I would like to recommend implementing an overhauled, token based void reward system instead of the current RNG based system. The idea first emerged around the time void keys were introduced, and was later referred by DE_Steve during one of the livestream.

This system would:

- replace luck in the current system with a certain, clear and attainable goals.

- allow players to get what they wanted with a bit of effort(read: not grind, gameplay.)

- Exchange tokens acquired by players over void exploration and runs for items they want from the token shop.

The way players would get tokens could depend on either:

- how much the players explored the void - vaults, side rooms, etc.,

- end level rewards like it was with events scaled by mission level.

The items token cost(acquisition rate) would be predetermined, set, reflect and depend on:

- Their original place in the rng based droptables as to this so we for once stop.

Edited September 20, 2013 by AceViper

[immolator1001]

At first I was like "but that would completely change how the game works" then I remembered they did the whole mod card thing so ya this sound good.

[se05239]

This would save me hours trying to get that one certain kind of void key of a certain tier that would net me highest chance to get that certain item.

Doubt it would happen though. If we can get what we want faster, then we would play less and if we play less we would not spend as much platinum on keys, which would mean less money to DE.

 

Its a nice suggestion though, seen it before, I fully support it.

[TerraNovaX]

Then the tokens would be rare as hell, then there would be a large requirement. Like a new awesome item, but you need 5000 tokens. After seeing the ungodly high cost for the new Clan tech, I wouldn't be suprised.

[BlueQuail]

They would have to do it in a way that buying Void key packs wont become obsolete.

[Fate_6]

Yeah, at the rate they are adding new Primes it is just too much of a grind for too little benefit. Most primes are a MINOR upgrade (other than arguably the Paris Prime, and obviously the Latron Prime), and they are nearly impossible to get right now. Statistically speaking, it should take a few hundred void runs just to get all the parts for some of them. That doesn't include the runs to get the void keys or the other materials like Orokin Cells.

 

Primes are already a bad system as is, too. It takes so long to get them that you'll have another weapon or frame fully loaded before you finish the Prime. Then, if you have a potato in your basic weapon, you basically just wasted it. I've held off getting a Latron since I started playing this game because the Prime version is so much better, but I still haven't finished it.

[RoboDoge]

The only problem with token system is that it would give DE excuse to place 50 tokens per Helmet,Chassis,Systems BP. And bosses would drop only 1 token per run.

[TunaMayo]

I don't think people can trust DE's hidden RNG anymore.

 

We have always joked about the RNGod, but this is a new level.

 

Something drastic has to change, a token system could be that.

[Luminide]

PLEEEEEEEEASE DE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KriLL3]

Actually you don't necessarily need to make a token system faster, as long as it's assured what you get, it's hard to explain but it's a psychological thing, if you had a goal and you see your progress towards it, you can keep going much longer than if you have a goal, and have no idea what your progress is because it's random, it's very disheartening not knowing how close you are to a goal, you can't do as many attempts at something if it's completely random if you get what you want.

 

I've said this before, award skill, not persistence, make T3 missions reward more/better tokens (T3 better than T2, T2 better than T1), swap defense from a fixed level number to like it works non-void, reward more/better tokens per 5 waves, similar with survival.

 

And obviously these tokens could be sold for platinum.

Edited September 20, 2013 by KriLL3

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

YES!!!

When will they make a decision and/or realize that it's better business for them to have thousands of us BUYING MORE SLOTS for the VERY COOL weapons they put in the game rather than &!$$ off thousands of players, only to have maybe 50 players buying slots with all the rest just leaving the game?

Of course they would think that people would buy more Void key packs. Well guess what? They can have us players grind key packs and parts all they want, but ultimately people will buy slots (the only money making part of the game that remains untouchable) for the gear we really love.

The DE that I thought I was supporting months ago. The DE that made me do double and triple takes saying to myself, "What they let you play for free to get all these cool warframes and guns? All I have to do is buy inventory space?" which got me confident towards spending hundreds of dollars to support. Just because they were that awesome. That DE that I know would really consider this points/token system.

Let us players enjoy these beautiful in game items that you guys work so hard to design and implement. Let us not burn out from constant repetition, which is often fruitless thus causing us to feel that it's all pointless and burn out.

Let us all have fun again.

Edited September 20, 2013 by sushidubya

[Wriith]

There was talk of a token system in a couple livestreams back when the first void droprate fiasco was in full swing.  I believe it was said that it was something the devs would consider looking into but were unsure of.  Well, if the post-U10 backlash is any indication, I have a feeling we might see them looking into it a bit more closely in the near future.

 

But yeah, +1 to a token system or a token/drop hybrid system.

[Otaiken]

This DOESN'T mean that you get the stuff you need faster. One of the major advantages of this system is that DE would get complete control over that. they can pretty much set exactly how long it will take player to get the new content. It will just no longer be chaotic.

 

Also, no more mistakes with drop rates, this system would be much easier to fix. You set the token rewards and then you just tweak the prices of items, much.. MUCH simpler than shuffling % around.

 

Also, the whole time vs money thing would make more sense, since buying keys woud readily allow you to skip one grinding step and get right to it. Oh.. I just need few more tokens? Well, Ill buy one more pack! As opposed to buying pack blowing all your keys getting nothing and never buying one again. The reduction in burnout would be significat too. It would still be grind.. but at least you can see the end...

 

I seriously see little disadvantage to it.. more exploitative systems may be more profitable BUT that is for limited amount of time, then it will kill you playerbase. This would be more long-term. Also, happy players will spend more than tired, disgusted and burnt out players.

Edited September 20, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Laecerelius]

A while ago they also mentioned about having alerts drop tokens rather than a random chance for the item you want to pop up.  It'd get rid of the useless credit only alerts that I doubt anyone runs anymore and you'd no longer have to keep checking Twitter for that one alert you want to pop up or wake up in the morning just to find out that an alert for what you really wanted popped while you were asleep or at work or whatever.

[plznohurtme]

Quite frankly token systems are a bandaid fix for having too much loot in not enough content. I do not want to see a token system, because quite frankly this isn't a MMO despite people trying to make it out to be one. They need to be transparent about their drop tables, make accessing things like void simpler (ex: tiered keys and choose which mission type you do rather than this double rng wall bs) and just fix the way the content is accessed.

Access is everything here and having it restricted by varying means is the majority of the problem. Also a lack of common knowledge where things appear from is even a bigger problem especially as they move and add to the loot tables.

I do not want to see a token system as I find them boring and not an actual solution. I do think there are many ways to improve the way loot is delivered without stepping to this area where they would have to do all sorts of balancing to make it so it doesn't take too long, but you don't get everything instantly. Part of what makes this game is the fact that it's more like an ARPG than it is a MMO and a token system would push that shift towards a lot of the bandaids MMO devs have come up with over the years rather than fixing the real problem.

Edited September 20, 2013 by plznohurtme

[KriLL3]

Void system wasn't that bad at first, but the more you add to the void the lower chance of getting what you want, it's not sustainable, what happens in U11? Ember Prime parts spread over the void lowering % of all previous parts? It doesn't work out, WF needs a system that can work longer term.

[GottFaust]

This is a great idea, and absolutely removes the dilution/bloat problem happening with the drop tables.

Mods/ammo/materials can still stay the same, but putting out tokens to acquire "rare" blueprints like prime weapon parts, Warframe parts, and the like would be a great step in the right direction.

• Void tokens could be used to acquire prime parts/blueprints with different amounts required for each piece. Forma and Potatoes might also be available from this though expensive.
• Derelict tokens could be used to acquire bulk crafting materials like mutagen samples and golem navs.
• Boss tokens could be used to acquire items that normally drop from them. Vor tokens could be used to get Seer, Hek Tokens could be used to get Trinity Parts, ect...

Edited September 20, 2013 by GottFaust

[DirkDeadeye]

The only problem with token system is that it would give DE excuse to place 50 tokens per Helmet,Chassis,Systems BP. And bosses would drop only 1 token per run.

 

Yeah, but at least your results wouldin't be born out of spontaneity. You'd have a measured result each time you go in. You know when you'd get it.

[Otaiken]

Quite frankly token systems are a bandaid fix for having too much loot in not enough content. I do not want to see a token system, because quite frankly this isn't a MMO despite people trying to make it out to be one. They need to be transparent about their drop tables, make accessing things like void simpler (ex: tiered keys and choose which mission type you do rather than this double rng wall bs) and just fix the way the content is accessed.

Access is everything here and having it restricted by varying means is the majority of the problem. Also a lack of common knowledge where things appear from is even a bigger problem especially as they move and add to the loot tables.

I do not want to see a token system as I find them boring and not an actual solution. I do think there are many ways to improve the way loot is delivered without stepping to this area where they would have to do all sorts of balancing to make it so it doesn't take too long, but you don't get everything instantly. Part of what makes this game is the fact that it's more like an ARPG than it is a MMO and a token system would push that shift towards a lot of the bandaids MMO devs have come up with over the years rather than fixing the real problem.

The only way the can keep this going is to make more tilesets and/or game modes. That is vastly harder than just making token system. Since you need to make a place for every new thing to drop, that pretty much doubles your work. Token system is just a start, feel free to provide different suggestion, but the current system is not only clunky and impractical (and rage inducing), it's also exploitative by nature and unsustainable.

Something has to change.. we need different system, not neccessarily token system, but different system.

There have been many suggestion, for example lowering/removing the chance for a particular thing to drop after you already have it. So once you get those 5 helmets or whatever it won't drop anymore. There are alternatives out there.

Edited September 20, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[FrostWolf]

A token system for the void is called for.

[Kato-san]

What about making T4s and T5s by fusing keys together making it more easy to get good stuff by doing harder content, instead of being stuck in easy content grinding away.

Edited September 20, 2013 by MindlessWar

[rangeless]

I like this idea. DE should reward grinders, not people who bribe the RNG to give them the most impossible loots within their first few runs lol.

[FrostWolf]

So Tokens would be like this with the possibility of finding some in the level

 

Survival

T1 = 1 token for every 10 minutes survived

T2 = 1 token fore every 5 minutes survived

T3 = 2 token for every 5 minutes survived

 

"Generally is the smallest area"

 

Exterminate

T1 = 1

T2=  2

T3=  5

 

Capture

T1 = 1

T2= 2

T3= 5

 

Mobile Defense

T1 = 2

T2= 5

T3= 7

 

Defense

T1 = 1 token for every 5 waves completed

T2= 1 token for every 5  waves completed

T3= 1 token for every 2 waves completed

[Otaiken]

I like this idea. DE should reward grinders, not people who bribe the RNG to give them the most impossible loots within their first few runs lol.

 

Yes... for all the grind this game has... this is more like a gamble than grind. 

[neKroMancer]

I think it's just turn bell curve distribution into mean value. While it's a guarantee that player will get something, it will result in DE picking mean for number of runs required for that particular item and put that number into token instead.

 

Not necessarily shorter or less grinding. Actually, set amount of void run required to get an item = working for money to buy food, imo. It's closer to working than playing. I prefer weighted RNG as when you get more duplicates of certain item, that item drop chance is lowered and increase other stuff drop rate instead.